schematics in PDF form?

[HAdyn98]

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could print the schematics to PDF for easy viewing?

I'd be interested to look over them , and help in any way I can;  I've got 10 years of electronic hardware design experience including DC-DC converters , CPU's / SoC's , memory and recently low power design, DDR , multiple power domain designs.

At the moment, I don't have a personal PC, and am using my work laptop, so I don't really want to install a "personal" package on it.

Cheers,

HAdyn

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[Al Johnson]

On Friday 05 June 2009, Hadyn van der Berg wrote:
> Hi,
> I was wondering if someone could print the schematics to PDF for easy
> viewing?

I assume you are talking about schematics for the gta02-core project since the
schematics for gta01 and gta02 were released as pdf. Is this correct?

http://downloads.openmoko.org/developer/schematics/GTA01/
http://downloads.openmoko.org/developer/schematics/GTA02/



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[HAdyn98]

Yes, the new board that's still in development. 

2009/6/5 Al Johnson <[hidden email]>

On Friday 05 June 2009, Hadyn van der Berg wrote:
> Hi,
> I was wondering if someone could print the schematics to PDF for easy
> viewing?

I assume you are talking about schematics for the gta02-core project since the
schematics for gta01 and gta02 were released as pdf. Is this correct?

http://downloads.openmoko.org/developer/schematics/GTA01/
http://downloads.openmoko.org/developer/schematics/GTA02/



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[Werner Almesberger]

Hadyn van der Berg wrote:
> > Yes, the new board that's still in development.

We haven't started the schematics yet. I agree, easy access to the
material is important. It sometimes only takes seconds to spot a bug.
It would be foolish to make people waste these precious seconds
wrestling with installation tasks instead.

So ... of course there's something more easily accessible :-) This is
the collection of our circuit symbols, minus a few from the last few
days that I still have to add:

http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-expanded-all.ps.gz

There are a few anomalies like odd text locations and a few missing
pin numbers, which are caused by the printing process. I hope to get
rid of these over the next few days.

We don't have PDF at the moment, due to problems with the library
providing the printing functions.

Also, the pin type is printed next to the each pin. That's to help
review. When the symbols are used in real schematics, this pin type
isn't visible.

Hardware design experience is just what we need. So, welcome ! :)

- Werner

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[HAdyn98]

Hi  Werner,

Can I ask, what format this is in?  I'm presuming GZIP , but I'm struggling to open it.

Is there any document about what the plan is for the new board?  Based on which existing hardware, improvements to be made, etc.

What is the thinking about using different chips, for example the power management or audio section?  

Would it be preferable to stick to the existing chips due to existing software/driver implementation or, if there is a justifiable reason, would the group be prepared to change?

I presume cost is an issue, since I believe the project isn't funded commercially . I would guess then that a motivating factor would be lower cost devices.

Do you struggle to obtain components, when it comes time for manufacture, and so is another issue, ease of sourcing of components?  Some parts have minimum order quantities, or are only available on large reels.

Sorry for all the questions - but I think they're important to know, when the product is developed.

Hadyn

2009/6/5 Werner Almesberger <[hidden email]>

Hadyn van der Berg wrote:

> > Yes, the new board that's still in development.

We haven't started the schematics yet. I agree, easy access to the
material is important. It sometimes only takes seconds to spot a bug.
It would be foolish to make people waste these precious seconds
wrestling with installation tasks instead.

So ... of course there's something more easily accessible :-) This is
the collection of our circuit symbols, minus a few from the last few
days that I still have to add:

http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-expanded-all.ps.gz

There are a few anomalies like odd text locations and a few missing
pin numbers, which are caused by the printing process. I hope to get
rid of these over the next few days.

We don't have PDF at the moment, due to problems with the library
providing the printing functions.

Also, the pin type is printed next to the each pin. That's to help
review. When the symbols are used in real schematics, this pin type
isn't visible.

Hardware design experience is just what we need. So, welcome ! :)

- Werner

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[Joerg Reisenweber]

Am Fr  5. Juni 2009 schrieb Hadyn van der Berg:

> Hi  Werner,
> Can I ask, what format this is in?  I'm presuming GZIP , but I'm struggling
> to open it.
>
> Is there any document about what the plan is for the new board?  Based on
> which existing hardware, improvements to be made, etc.
>
> What is the thinking about using different chips, for example the power
> management or audio section?
> Would it be preferable to stick to the existing chips due to existing
> software/driver implementation or, if there is a justifiable reason, would
> the group be prepared to change?
>
> I presume cost is an issue, since I believe the project isn't funded
> commercially . I would guess then that a motivating factor would be lower
> cost devices.
>
> Do you struggle to obtain components, when it comes time for manufacture,
> and so is another issue, ease of sourcing of components?  Some parts have
> minimum order quantities, or are only available on large reels.
>
>
> Sorry for all the questions - but I think they're important to know, when
> the product is developed.
>
> Hadyn
>
>
> 2009/6/5 Werner Almesberger <[hidden email]>
>
> > Hadyn van der Berg wrote:
> > > > Yes, the new board that's still in development.
> >
> > We haven't started the schematics yet. I agree, easy access to the
> > material is important. It sometimes only takes seconds to spot a bug.
> > It would be foolish to make people waste these precious seconds
> > wrestling with installation tasks instead.
> >
> > So ... of course there's something more easily accessible :-) This is
> > the collection of our circuit symbols, minus a few from the last few
> > days that I still have to add:
> >
> > http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-expanded-all.ps.gz
> >
> > There are a few anomalies like odd text locations and a few missing
> > pin numbers, which are caused by the printing process. I hope to get
> > rid of these over the next few days.
> >
> > We don't have PDF at the moment, due to problems with the library
> > providing the printing functions.
> >
> > Also, the pin type is printed next to the each pin. That's to help
> > review. When the symbols are used in real schematics, this pin type
> > isn't visible.
> >
> > Hardware design experience is just what we need. So, welcome ! :)
> >
> > - Werner
> >
>

I think this thread should move to [GTA03] (wonder why it's called that way)
/j


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[Werner Almesberger]

Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> I think this thread should move to [GTA03] (wonder why it's called that way)

Agreed. Hadyn, I'll just forward your mail to the gta03 list,
https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/gta03
and then cross-post my answer.

And yes, one of these days, we'll have make a new list. While it's
nice to have everyone's attention, I don't really want gta02-core
to shush any other projects that go in the same general direction.

- Werner

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[Werner Almesberger]

Hadyn van der Berg wrote:
> Can I ask, what format this is in?  I'm presuming GZIP , but I'm struggling
> to open it.

It's gzip'ed Postscript. Viewers like "gv" can open it directly.
If your Postscript viewer doesn't uncompress on the fly, you have
to gunzip it first, yes.

> Is there any document about what the plan is for the new board?  Based on
> which existing hardware, improvements to be made, etc.

It's basically a GTA02v7 with some relatively small improvements.
The biggest one is removal of the Glamo. Details are here:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gta02-core

The goal of this project is not to make the next great phone, but
to open the hardware development process. Therefore, we do this
with a well-known design so that we can focus on the process and
don't have to solve too many problems at the same time.

Also, Openmoko Inc. has generously offered to donate some GTA02
components, which will solve the sourcing problem. And this is
one more reason for staying very close to the GTA02 design.

The output of gta02-core will only be a few prototypes. The
number will be largely determined by how many components we can
get from Openmoko Inc. and also how many people will be interested
in having such a prototype.

Having said all this, gta02-core should only be the first step
towards a real product. I can envision many improvements and even
quite radical changes that could be made based on the experience
we gather with gta02-core and the tools we develop for it. Also,
having completed a successful prototype run will give us more
credibility for follow-on projects, which will help with sourcing.

- Werner

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[Wolfgang Spraul-2]

Joerg,

> I think this thread should move to [GTA03] (wonder why it's called that way)

How about the other way round?
Looks like gta02-core is the way forward (and as you said the [gta03]
list name is even wrong).
I propose to close the [gta03] mailing list and move discussions to the
[hardware] list.

Wolfgang

Joerg Reisenweber wrote:

> Am Fr  5. Juni 2009 schrieb Hadyn van der Berg:
>  
>> Hi  Werner,
>> Can I ask, what format this is in?  I'm presuming GZIP , but I'm struggling
>> to open it.
>>
>> Is there any document about what the plan is for the new board?  Based on
>> which existing hardware, improvements to be made, etc.
>>
>> What is the thinking about using different chips, for example the power
>> management or audio section?
>> Would it be preferable to stick to the existing chips due to existing
>> software/driver implementation or, if there is a justifiable reason, would
>> the group be prepared to change?
>>
>> I presume cost is an issue, since I believe the project isn't funded
>> commercially . I would guess then that a motivating factor would be lower
>> cost devices.
>>
>> Do you struggle to obtain components, when it comes time for manufacture,
>> and so is another issue, ease of sourcing of components?  Some parts have
>> minimum order quantities, or are only available on large reels.
>>
>>
>> Sorry for all the questions - but I think they're important to know, when
>> the product is developed.
>>
>> Hadyn
>>
>>
>> 2009/6/5 Werner Almesberger <[hidden email]>
>>
>>    
>>> Hadyn van der Berg wrote:
>>>      
>>>>> Yes, the new board that's still in development.
>>>>>          
>>> We haven't started the schematics yet. I agree, easy access to the
>>> material is important. It sometimes only takes seconds to spot a bug.
>>> It would be foolish to make people waste these precious seconds
>>> wrestling with installation tasks instead.
>>>
>>> So ... of course there's something more easily accessible :-) This is
>>> the collection of our circuit symbols, minus a few from the last few
>>> days that I still have to add:
>>>
>>> http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-expanded-all.ps.gz
>>>
>>> There are a few anomalies like odd text locations and a few missing
>>> pin numbers, which are caused by the printing process. I hope to get
>>> rid of these over the next few days.
>>>
>>> We don't have PDF at the moment, due to problems with the library
>>> providing the printing functions.
>>>
>>> Also, the pin type is printed next to the each pin. That's to help
>>> review. When the symbols are used in real schematics, this pin type
>>> isn't visible.
>>>
>>> Hardware design experience is just what we need. So, welcome ! :)
>>>
>>> - Werner
>>>
>>>      
>
> I think this thread should move to [GTA03] (wonder why it's called that way)
> /j
>  
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>
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[Joerg Reisenweber]

Am Sa  6. Juni 2009 schrieb Wolfgang Spraul:
> Joerg,
>
> > I think this thread should move to [GTA03] (wonder why it's called that
way)
>
> How about the other way round?
> Looks like gta02-core is the way forward (and as you said the [gta03]
> list name is even wrong).
> I propose to close the [gta03] mailing list and move discussions to the
> [hardware] list.
>
> Wolfgang

No good idea. I like the precise focus of [hw]. Spamming it with another
project would cause at least me not reading it anymore.
This list is meant for GTA02 (+gta01?) hw issues/topics.
gta02-core IS NOT gta02

my 2 €cent
jOERG


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[Werner Almesberger]

[ Cc to the gta03 list added ]

Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> This list is meant for GTA02 (+gta01?) hw issues/topics.

I guess that's the problem with this sort of list - you can never
be quite sure what it's about :-) E.g., on the kernel lst, we also
had stuff for GTA03-6410, and it didn't seem out of place. Of
course, the kernel is per se shared, while hardware projects don't
necessarily have one big project tree.

I agree that a list called "gta03" is not an ideal home for a
project called "gta02-core", and I'd also be unhappy if the talk
about gta02-core would prevent discussion about other projects or
project ideas.

I believe there is room for a lot more projects than gta02-core,
be it in parallel or as successors. So having a place to discuss
them is valuable. One might actually just rename "gta03" to
"future", to make it clear :-)

There is a risk that having discussions of different projects
mixed on a single list will cause confusion. E.g., if three
projects, let's say Openmoko's GTA02, gta02-core, and JoergPhone,
all share "hardware", it will be mighty confusing if someone
starts discussing the USB current without precisely identifying
the project in each and every mail.

On the other hand, the more lists you have, the more crossposts
and discussions happening on the wrong list.

So, all things considered, I think creating a new list for
gta02-core makes sense. I'm not sure what to go with the gta03
list, if anything.

Opinions ?

- Werner

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