releasing 3.98 stable?

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Robert Hegemann
releasing 3.98 stable?
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Hi all,

I would say it is time to release 3.98 stable soon.
What do you think about it?

There are some configure patches at sourceforge
and some open bug tracker items about configure
problems. Is anyone willing to care about these?

As we are talking about build environment. I've
replaced VC6 by VC9 on my computer some time ago.
So, if I was the last LAME dev using VC6, I would
vote to remove the VC6 workspace and project files
from CVS. Any comments?


Ciao Robert

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Fabian Greffrath-6
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Hi all,

Robert Hegemann schrieb:
> There are some configure patches at sourceforge
> and some open bug tracker items about configure
> problems. Is anyone willing to care about these?

During the last weeks I have been discussing two issues with some LAME
developers, one being the missing linking of libmp3lame against -lm
and the other one being a configure switch to build the frontends
against the shared library instead of the static one (wishlist item).

However, I have lost track somehow and cannot tell if these issues
have been fixed in the meantime...

Cheers,
Fabian


--
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Ruhr-Universität Bochum
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D-44780 Bochum

Telefon: +49 (0)234 / 32-26334
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Alexander Leidinger
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Quoting Fabian Greffrath <greffrath@...> (from Tue, 24 Jun  
2008 08:51:24 +0200):

> Hi all,
>
> Robert Hegemann schrieb:
>> There are some configure patches at sourceforge
>> and some open bug tracker items about configure
>> problems. Is anyone willing to care about these?
>
> During the last weeks I have been discussing two issues with some LAME
> developers, one being the missing linking of libmp3lame against -lm
> and the other one being a configure switch to build the frontends
> against the shared library instead of the static one (wishlist item).
>
> However, I have lost track somehow and cannot tell if these issues
> have been fixed in the meantime...

It's not committed yet (I have some patches which I need to test). And  
I'm busy ATM (wedding scheduled for next week)...

Bye,
Alexander.

--
Q: Why do firemen wear red suspenders?
A: To conform with departmental regulations concerning uniform dress.

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Rogério Brito-2
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Hi, Robert.

On Jun 23 2008, Robert Hegemann wrote:
> I would say it is time to release 3.98 stable soon.
> What do you think about it?

I have some updates to things in both the debian and misc directories.

I understand that Alexander is quite busy (and for one of the best
reasons in life!) and could not yet test the code (that would influence
what I commit to the misc/abx.c program) that I sent him for a test of
his on FreeBSD.

That program is quite useful for doing abx tests on Unix systems and it
was broken to the point of not working with Unix on little endian
machines. It now works on little-endian machines and I have a version
here (not yet committed) that works on my big-endian iBook running
Linux.

If only MacOS X came with a layer like OSS, I think that I could support
that as well.

Oh, one thing that I'm not sure if it is fixed: the makefile
debian/rules has to be executable on the tarball. Is there any way of
setting it to be executable when doing an export of the CVS repository?

In other areas, I'd say that lame 3.98 is quite a nice thing, especially
with the (much welcome) fractional VBR quality.

To my old years, it seems to be quite good.


Regards, Rogério Brito.

--
Rogério Brito : rbrito@{mackenzie,ime.usp}.br : GPG key 1024D/7C2CAEB8
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Projects: algorithms.berlios.de : lame.sf.net : vrms.alioth.debian.org

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tripp
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Hi,

just wanted to note as a windows user,
that for lame 3.98b8 to compile
using msys/mingw
i need the lamb8.diff patch attached.

and for --enable-nasm to work,
the patch: lame_3.98_non_pic_objects.diff
is required.
as was required for 3.97)
 
 
ty
tripp


     
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Gabriel Bouvigne
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Robert Hegemann a écrit :
> I would say it is time to release 3.98 stable soon.
> What do you think about it?

(That reminds me that I should revert my last commit)

It's more than time to release 3.98. What about setting a deadline for a
last beta bump in a resonably short time frame (20th of July?), and at
this time creating a 3.98 release branch, and bumping trunk to 3.99?


> As we are talking about build environment. I've
> replaced VC6 by VC9 on my computer some time ago.
> So, if I was the last LAME dev using VC6, I would
> vote to remove the VC6 workspace and project files
> from CVS. Any comments?
I agree to remove the VC6 files.

--
Gabriel Bouvigne
www.mp3-tech.org
personal page: http://gabriel.mp3-tech.org

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Robert Hegemann
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Hi Tripp!

Am 24.06.2008, 18:05 Uhr, schrieb tripp <eliared@...>:

> Hi,
>
> just wanted to note as a windows user,
> that for lame 3.98b8 to compile
> using msys/mingw
> i need the lamb8.diff patch attached.

Why do you need to include windows.h ?

> and for --enable-nasm to work,
> the patch: lame_3.98_non_pic_objects.diff
> is required.

Does this change make sense? It looks like you want the
"pic_objects" to be the same as "non_pic_objects" ???

> as was required for 3.97)
> ty
> tripp




Ciao Robert

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Robert Hegemann
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Hi tripp,

I removed the superflouos typedef for BOOL. Now you should not
need to include windows.h anymore. I can't help you with your
configure problem and let someone comment on it, who has a better
understanding about what's really needed there.

Ciao Robert


Am 25.06.2008, 04:46 Uhr, schrieb tripp <eliared@...>:

> Hi Robert,
>
> --- On Tue, 6/24/08, robert <Robert.Hegemann@...> wrote:
>
>> > just wanted to note as a windows user,
>> > that for lame 3.98b8 to compile
>> > using msys/mingw
>> > i need the lamb8.diff patch attached.
>>
>> Why do you need to include windows.h ?
>
> well the original problem i had is described here:
>
>> compiling fails on 'make' :
>>
>>  gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -I../include -I. -I../libmp3lame -I..
>> -O3
>> -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math -maccumulate-outgoing-args -Wall
>> -pipe
>> -MT decode_i386.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/decode_i386.Tpo -c decode_i386.c
>> -o decode_i386.o
>> mv -f .deps/decode_i386.Tpo .deps/decode_i386.Plo
>> /bin/sh ../libtool --tag=CC   --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -I.
>> -I.. -I../include -I. -I../libmp3lame -I..    -O3
>> -fomit-frame-pointer
>> -ffast-math       -maccumulate-outgoing-args -Wall -pipe  -MT
>> interface.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/interface.Tpo -c -o interface.lo
>> interface.c
>>  gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -I../include -I. -I../libmp3lame -I..
>> -O3
>> -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math -maccumulate-outgoing-args -Wall
>> -pipe
>> -MT interface.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/interface.Tpo -c interface.c -o
>> interface.o
>> In file included from c:/mingw/include/windows.h:48,
>>                  from ../libmp3lame/machine.h:130,
>>                  from interface.c:15:
>> c:/mingw/include/windef.h:234: error: two or more data types in
>> declaration specifiers
>> make[2]: *** [interface.lo] Error 1
>> make[2]: Leaving directory `/c/test/lameb8/mpglib'
>> make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>> make[1]: Leaving directory `/c/test/lameb8'
>> make: *** [all] Error 2
>>
>>
>> from windef.h:
>>
>> typedef unsigned long DWORD;
>> typedef int WINBOOL,*PWINBOOL,*LPWINBOOL;
>> /* FIXME: Is there a good solution to this? */
>> #ifndef XFree86Server
>> #ifndef __OBJC__
>> typedef WINBOOL BOOL;                     ******!!!! Line 234 ****
>> #else
>> #define BOOL WINBOOL
>> #endif
>> typedef unsigned char BYTE;
>> #endif /* ndef XFree86Server */
>> typedef BOOL *PBOOL,*LPBOOL;
>> typedef unsigned short WORD;
>> typedef float FLOAT;
>> typedef FLOAT *PFLOAT;
>> typedef BYTE *PBYTE,*LPBYTE;
>> typedef int *PINT,*LPINT;
>> typedef WORD *PWORD,*LPWORD;
>> typedef long *LPLONG;
>> typedef DWORD *PDWORD,*LPDWORD;
>> typedef CONST void *PCVOID,*LPCVOID;
>> typedef int INT;
>> typedef unsigned int UINT,*PUINT,*LPUINT;
>>
>> #include <winnt.h>
>>
>> typedef UINT_PTR WPARAM;
>> typedef LONG_PTR LPARAM;
>> typedef LONG_PTR LRESULT;
>> #ifndef _HRESULT_DEFINED
>> typedef LONG HRESULT;
>> #define _HRESULT_DEFINED
>> #endif
>> #ifndef XFree86Server
>> typedef WORD ATOM;
>> #endif /* XFree86Server */
>
> and i got a hint on the mingw-users list from John TDM:
>
> "Simple -- find out where a header included before <windows.h> #defines
> or typedefs BOOL, and fix it. (Recommended fix: surround it with #ifndef
> _WINDEF_H/#endif and be sure to include <windows.h> before it.)"
>
> and i came up with the patch.
> which works,
> and makes me happy, cause i don't understand code at all.
>
>> > and for --enable-nasm to work,
>> > the patch: lame_3.98_non_pic_objects.diff
>> > is required.
>>
>> Does this change make sense? It looks like you want the
>> "pic_objects" to be the same as
>> "non_pic_objects" ???
>
> yes.
> in the sense that it worked.
>
> looking closer, i see that it's actually a combination of
> ./configure --enable-nasm --disable-shared
>
> then make fails like so:
>
> test -d .libs || mkdir .libs
> echo '# Generated by ltmain.sh - GNU libtool 1.5.22 (1.1220.2.365  
> 2005/12/18 22:
> 14:06)' >fftsse.lo
> echo "pic_object='.libs/fftsse.o'" >>fftsse.lo
> echo "non_pic_object='fftsse.o'" >>fftsse.lo
> /mingw/bin/nasm -f win32 -DWIN32 -i ../../libmp3lame/i386/ fftsse.nas -o  
> .libs/f
> ftsse.o -l fftsse.lo.lst
> fftsse.nas:413: warning: label alone on a line without a colon might be  
> in error
>
> /bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=link gcc  -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer  
> -ffast-math -mac
> cumulate-outgoing-args -Wall -pipe    -o liblameasmroutines.la  
> choose_table.lo
> cpu_feat.lo fft3dn.lo fftsse.lo
> ar cru .libs/liblameasmroutines.a  choose_table.o cpu_feat.o fft3dn.o  
> fftsse.o
> c:\min\bin\ar.exe: choose_table.o: No such file or directory
> make[3]: *** [liblameasmroutines.la] Error 1
> make[3]: Leaving directory `/c/test/lame/libmp3lame/i386'
> make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> make[2]: Leaving directory `/c/test/lame/libmp3lame'
> make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/c/test/lame'
> make: *** [all] Error 2
>
> so in essence,
> an easier fix, is just to build the shared libs,
> and del them if not needed.
> but still. in the above scenario,
> path pointers are incorrect.
>
>
> ty
> tripp

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Alexander Leidinger
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Quoting Rogério Brito <rbrito@...> (from Tue, 24 Jun 2008  
12:13:02 -0300):

> Hi, Robert.
>
> On Jun 23 2008, Robert Hegemann wrote:
>> I would say it is time to release 3.98 stable soon.
>> What do you think about it?
>
> I have some updates to things in both the debian and misc directories.
>
> I understand that Alexander is quite busy (and for one of the best
> reasons in life!) and could not yet test the code (that would influence
> what I commit to the misc/abx.c program) that I sent him for a test of
> his on FreeBSD.

Go ahead. In the FreeBSD package abx is not build anyway, so it will  
not affect a FreeBSD packge. I will test later.

> Oh, one thing that I'm not sure if it is fixed: the makefile
> debian/rules has to be executable on the tarball. Is there any way of
> setting it to be executable when doing an export of the CVS repository?

No. If it was not set in the beginning, or is lost for whatever reason  
during the commit, you can not change it later (except you have direct  
control over the files in CVS, you could just mark it as executable  
then).

The only possibility is to try it in configure or in the makefile, but  
this may be too late, or the source resides in a read-only place, so  
there's not really a reliable way of handling this.

If we would switch to subversion, we can change it, I would assume.

Bye,
Alexander.

--
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the worst possible sequence.

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Alexander Leidinger
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Quoting Alexander Leidinger <Alexander@...> (from Tue, 24  
Jun 2008 16:11:43 +0200):

> Quoting Fabian Greffrath <greffrath@...> (from Tue, 24 Jun
> 2008 08:51:24 +0200):

>> During the last weeks I have been discussing two issues with some LAME
>> developers, one being the missing linking of libmp3lame against -lm
>> and the other one being a configure switch to build the frontends
>> against the shared library instead of the static one (wishlist item).
>>
>> However, I have lost track somehow and cannot tell if these issues
>> have been fixed in the meantime...
>
> It's not committed yet (I have some patches which I need to test). And
> I'm busy ATM (wedding scheduled for next week)...

This is committed now, together with a switch to not use the compaq  
optimized math lib (can someone close the corresponding tracker item  
please? I committed a little bit different version than requested).

Bye,
Alexander.

--
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tripp
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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hi Robert,

 
> I removed the superflouos typedef for BOOL. Now you should
> not need to include windows.h anymore.

ty for that.

> I can't help you with your
> configure problem and let someone comment on it, who has a
> better understanding about what's really needed there.

ok,
so i'll just clearly re-state then.

I'm on winxp, msys/mingw.
when configuring lame 3.98 beta 8, with:
nasm enabled AND shared libs disabled
then make fails like so:

test -d .libs || mkdir .libs
echo '# Generated by ltmain.sh - GNU libtool 1.5.22 (1.1220.2.365 2005/12/18 22:
14:06)' >fftsse.lo
echo "pic_object='.libs/fftsse.o'" >>fftsse.lo
echo "non_pic_object='fftsse.o'" >>fftsse.lo
/mingw/bin/nasm -f win32 -DWIN32 -i ../../libmp3lame/i386/ fftsse.nas -o .libs/f
ftsse.o -l fftsse.lo.lst
fftsse.nas:413: warning: label alone on a line without a colon might be in error
/bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=link gcc  -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math -mac
cumulate-outgoing-args -Wall -pipe    -o liblameasmroutines.la  choose_table.lo
cpu_feat.lo fft3dn.lo fftsse.lo
ar cru .libs/liblameasmroutines.a  choose_table.o cpu_feat.o fft3dn.o fftsse.o
c:\min\bin\ar.exe: choose_table.o: No such file or directory
make[3]: *** [liblameasmroutines.la] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/c/test/lame/libmp3lame/i386'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/c/test/lame/libmp3lame'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/c/test/lame'
make: *** [all] Error 2

and a fix i've seen to this is to apply the following patch:

--- libmp3lame/i386/Makefile.in.orig Sun May 13 15:02:10 2007
+++ libmp3lame/i386/Makefile.in Sun May 13 15:02:23 2007
@@ -484,7 +484,7 @@
  test -d .libs || mkdir .libs
  $(ECHO) '# Generated by ltmain.sh - GNU libtool 1.5 (1.1220 2003/04/05 19:32:58)' >$@
  $(ECHO) "pic_object='.libs/$*.o'" >>$@
- $(ECHO) "non_pic_object='$*.o'" >>$@
+ $(ECHO) "non_pic_object='.libs/$*.o'" >>$@
  $(NASM) $(NASMFLAGS) $< -o .libs/$*.o -l $@.lst
 
 #$(OBJECTS): libtool



ty
tripp



     

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Robert Hegemann
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Am 25.06.2008, 14:47 Uhr, schrieb Alexander Leidinger  
<Alexander@...>:

> Quoting Alexander Leidinger <Alexander@...> (from Tue, 24
> Jun 2008 16:11:43 +0200):
>
>> Quoting Fabian Greffrath <greffrath@...> (from Tue, 24 Jun
>> 2008 08:51:24 +0200):
>
>>> During the last weeks I have been discussing two issues with some LAME
>>> developers, one being the missing linking of libmp3lame against -lm
>>> and the other one being a configure switch to build the frontends
>>> against the shared library instead of the static one (wishlist item).
>>>
>>> However, I have lost track somehow and cannot tell if these issues
>>> have been fixed in the meantime...
>>
>> It's not committed yet (I have some patches which I need to test). And
>> I'm busy ATM (wedding scheduled for next week)...
>
> This is committed now, together with a switch to not use the compaq
> optimized math lib (can someone close the corresponding tracker item
> please? I committed a little bit different version than requested).

Done.

What about these patches, can these items be closed too?
[ 1596938 ] Intel C/C++ compiler and math library support
[ 1572722 ] RPM spec for Centos

Does configure work on Ubuntu now?
[ 1880090 ] configure fails to build on Ubuntu

> Bye,
> Alexander.



Ciao Robert

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Robert Hegemann
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Hello Gabriel.

Am Dienstag, 24. Juni 2008 20:25 schrieb Gabriel Bouvigne:
> Robert Hegemann a écrit :
> > I would say it is time to release 3.98 stable soon.
> > What do you think about it?
>
> (That reminds me that I should revert my last commit)
>
> It's more than time to release 3.98. What about setting a deadline for a
> last beta bump in a resonably short time frame (20th of July?), and at
> this time creating a 3.98 release branch, and bumping trunk to 3.99?

I had 4th of July in mind, for the stable release. But, if you think
there are some more commits pending, your time frame would be fine
with me too.

> > As we are talking about build environment. I've
> > replaced VC6 by VC9 on my computer some time ago.
> > So, if I was the last LAME dev using VC6, I would
> > vote to remove the VC6 workspace and project files
> > from CVS. Any comments?
>
> I agree to remove the VC6 files.

Some more comments from other mailing list listeners?


Ciao Robert

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John Edwards-5
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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 From a personal perspective in terms of providing compiles on
Rarewares, I shall be on vacation from 22 July thru 29 July, so if you
could avoid that timeframe for the release, I'd be grateful.

regards

John

Robert Hegemann wrote:

> Hello Gabriel.
>
> Am Dienstag, 24. Juni 2008 20:25 schrieb Gabriel Bouvigne:
>> Robert Hegemann a écrit :
>>> I would say it is time to release 3.98 stable soon.
>>> What do you think about it?
>> (That reminds me that I should revert my last commit)
>>
>> It's more than time to release 3.98. What about setting a deadline for a
>> last beta bump in a resonably short time frame (20th of July?), and at
>> this time creating a 3.98 release branch, and bumping trunk to 3.99?
>
> I had 4th of July in mind, for the stable release. But, if you think
> there are some more commits pending, your time frame would be fine
> with me too.
>
>>> As we are talking about build environment. I've
>>> replaced VC6 by VC9 on my computer some time ago.
>>> So, if I was the last LAME dev using VC6, I would
>>> vote to remove the VC6 workspace and project files
>>> from CVS. Any comments?
>> I agree to remove the VC6 files.
>
> Some more comments from other mailing list listeners?
>
>
> Ciao Robert
>
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Robert Hegemann
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Am Mittwoch, 25. Juni 2008 14:47 schrieb Alexander Leidinger:

> Quoting Alexander Leidinger <Alexander@...> (from Tue, 24
>
> Jun 2008 16:11:43 +0200):
> > Quoting Fabian Greffrath <greffrath@...> (from Tue, 24 Jun
> >
> > 2008 08:51:24 +0200):
> >> During the last weeks I have been discussing two issues with some LAME
> >> developers, one being the missing linking of libmp3lame against -lm
> >> and the other one being a configure switch to build the frontends
> >> against the shared library instead of the static one (wishlist item).
> >>
> >> However, I have lost track somehow and cannot tell if these issues
> >> have been fixed in the meantime...
> >
> > It's not committed yet (I have some patches which I need to test). And
> > I'm busy ATM (wedding scheduled for next week)...
>
> This is committed now, together with a switch to not use the compaq
> optimized math lib (can someone close the corresponding tracker item
> please? I committed a little bit different version than requested).

After the usual configure and make I get the following error:

robert@sly:~/Audio/lame-080625b> make
make  all-recursive
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/robert/Audio/lame-080625b'
Making all in mpglib
make[2]: Entering directory `/home/robert/Audio/lame-080625b/mpglib'
Makefile:303: .deps/common.Plo: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
Makefile:304: .deps/dct64_i386.Plo: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
Makefile:305: .deps/decode_i386.Plo: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
Makefile:306: .deps/interface.Plo: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
Makefile:307: .deps/layer1.Plo: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
Makefile:308: .deps/layer2.Plo: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
Makefile:309: .deps/layer3.Plo: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
Makefile:310: .deps/tabinit.Plo: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
make[2]: *** Keine Regel, um ».deps/tabinit.Plo« zu erstellen.  Schluss.
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/robert/Audio/lame-080625b/mpglib'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Fehler 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/robert/Audio/lame-080625b'
make: *** [all] Fehler 2

> Bye,
> Alexander.


Ciao Robert

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Robert Hegemann
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Sorry!

Am Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2008 00:27 schrieb Robert Hegemann:
> After the usual configure and make I get the following error:
....

False alarm!
I just hadn't noticed that we have yet another mac subfolder.
Configure aborted at some point and the following make could
not work. After adding that folder everything works again.


Ciao Robert

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Alexander Leidinger
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Quoting robert <Robert.Hegemann@...> (from Wed, 25 Jun 2008  
20:33:52 +0200):

> Am 25.06.2008, 14:47 Uhr, schrieb Alexander Leidinger  
> <Alexander@...>:
>
>> Quoting Alexander Leidinger <Alexander@...> (from Tue, 24
>> Jun 2008 16:11:43 +0200):
>>
>>> Quoting Fabian Greffrath <greffrath@...> (from Tue, 24 Jun
>>> 2008 08:51:24 +0200):
>>
>>>> During the last weeks I have been discussing two issues with some LAME
>>>> developers, one being the missing linking of libmp3lame against -lm
>>>> and the other one being a configure switch to build the frontends
>>>> against the shared library instead of the static one (wishlist item).
>>>>
>>>> However, I have lost track somehow and cannot tell if these issues
>>>> have been fixed in the meantime...
>>>
>>> It's not committed yet (I have some patches which I need to test). And
>>> I'm busy ATM (wedding scheduled for next week)...
>>
>> This is committed now, together with a switch to not use the compaq
>> optimized math lib (can someone close the corresponding tracker item
>> please? I committed a little bit different version than requested).
>
> Done.

Thanks.

> What about these patches, can these items be closed too?
> [ 1596938 ] Intel C/C++ compiler and math library support

Not yet.

> [ 1572722 ] RPM spec for Centos

I don't know.

> Does configure work on Ubuntu now?
> [ 1880090 ] configure fails to build on Ubuntu

Uhm... I don't think. Can someone test?

Bye,
Alexander.

--
You will live to see your grandchildren.

http://www.Leidinger.net    Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7
http://www.FreeBSD.org       netchild @ FreeBSD.org  : PGP ID = 72077137

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Gabriel Bouvigne
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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Robert Hegemann a écrit :

> I had 4th of July in mind, for the stable release. But, if you think
> there are some more commits pending, your time frame would be fine
> with me too.

I did not thought about 4th July. Sounds like a good date for the
release, let's try to match it.


--
Gabriel Bouvigne
www.mp3-tech.org
personal page: http://gabriel.mp3-tech.org

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Gabriel Bouvigne
Re: releasing 3.98 stable?
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