program startup parameter

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Jurgen Konings

program startup parameter

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Hi,
 
Can i make a program parameter to set the temp dir where all my temp recordings (pre-exported) are saved ?
 
I don't have that much free hdd space left. Since i want to choose which hd to use it would be handy if it became something like this.
 
C:\Program files\Audacity\Audacity.exe -temp C:\temp
 
Or in a bat file.
 
Thanks for any help,

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Re: program startup parameter

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    | From Jurgen Konings
    | Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:44:27 +0200
    | Subject: [Audacity-help] program startup parameter
    | Can i make a program parameter to set the temp dir where all my temp
    | recordings (pre-exported) are saved ?
    | I don't have that much free hdd space left. Since i want to choose
    | which hd to use it would be handy if it became something like this.
    | C:\Program files\Audacity\Audacity.exe -temp C:\temp

You can choose the path to the temporary directory on the Directories
tab of Preferences but C:\ is normally the main drive. Setting the path
to an alternative path on the C:\ volume won't help you if that volume
is short of space, nor will Windows create a path such as you wrote with
two "C:\" strings in it. If you have a second fixed drive e.g. D:\ or a
portable hard drive e.g. F:\ that will be fine to set up a temporary directory
there. We don't recommend setting the temporary directory to a network
drive as access usually is not fast enough to write the recorded data
without glitches.

Also see this page for help on freeing up space and using less space
for recording:
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=General_Tips#Recording_Length 

Don't forget to use the Windows Disc CleanUp utility (usually at Start >
All Programs > Accessories > System Tools) especially "Compress Old
Files".  


Gale Andrews
 


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Jurgen Konings

Re: program startup parameter

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I now use my usb 1.1 external harddisk for temp recordings. I don't have USB 2.0 sorry. The picture on the screen doesn't update that fast, it is sometimes behind and is then catched up. Is this bad or is it safe/glitch free ?
 
Thanks, Jurgen

 
2007/8/23, Audacity Help <[hidden email]>:

   | From Jurgen Konings
   | Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:44:27 +0200
   | Subject: [Audacity-help] program startup parameter
   | Can i make a program parameter to set the temp dir where all my temp
   | recordings (pre-exported) are saved ?
   | I don't have that much free hdd space left. Since i want to choose
   | which hd to use it would be handy if it became something like this.
   | C:\Program files\Audacity\Audacity.exe -temp C:\temp

You can choose the path to the temporary directory on the Directories
tab of Preferences but C:\ is normally the main drive. Setting the path
to an alternative path on the C:\ volume won't help you if that volume
is short of space, nor will Windows create a path such as you wrote with
two "C:\" strings in it. If you have a second fixed drive e.g. D:\ or a
portable hard drive e.g. F:\ that will be fine to set up a temporary directory
there. We don't recommend setting the temporary directory to a network
drive as access usually is not fast enough to write the recorded data
without glitches.

Also see this page for help on freeing up space and using less space
for recording:
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=General_Tips#Recording_Length

Don't forget to use the Windows Disc CleanUp utility (usually at Start >
All Programs > Accessories > System Tools) especially "Compress Old
Files".


Gale Andrews



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Re: program startup parameter

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    | From Jurgen Konings
    | Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:52:52 +0200
    | Subject: [Audacity-help] program startup parameter
    | I now use my usb 1.1 external harddisk for temp recordings. I don't
    | have USB 2.0 sorry. The picture on the screen doesn't update that fast,
    | it is sometimes behind and is then catched up. Is this bad or is it
    | safe/glitch free ?

If you only have USB 1.1 it is very slow (only 12 Mbit/s). You can only
judge yourself whether it records glitch free or not but you don't have to
have the screen drawing the waveform while recording. You can simply
minimise Audacity while recording which will leave more processing power
for handling the recorded data, but you still have the potential issue of a
slow connection to the drive where your temporary folder is. Frankly if
there is enough space on the external hard drive to take Audacity's
temporary folder I would simply move data from the internal drive to the
external one and use the space freed on the internal drive for Audacity's
temporary folder.


Gale Andrews




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Jurgen Konings

Re: program startup parameter

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I switched now to beta 1.3.3 and set that the audio must buffer into the ram in stead of temp dir.

How does this feature work exactly ?

I saw that an average recording of 45 min (1 tape side) is 960 mb in temp files.

But that much audio can't be stored in ram. I have 512 mb ram. So does it save upto 512 mb in ram and then write it to the temp or ?

Because if i stop recording now after 45 minutes, it starts to write to the temp file (on external 1.1 usb harddisk).

I think this is better (buffer in ram first) because ram is much faster than usb 1.1

Thanks

2007/8/24, Audacity Help <[hidden email]>:

    | From Jurgen Konings
    | Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:52:52 +0200
    | Subject: [Audacity-help] program startup parameter
    | I now use my usb 1.1 external harddisk for temp recordings. I don't
    | have USB 2.0 sorry. The picture on the screen doesn't update that fast,
    | it is sometimes behind and is then catched up. Is this bad or is it
    | safe/glitch free ?

If you only have USB 1.1 it is very slow (only 12 Mbit/s). You can only
judge yourself whether it records glitch free or not but you don't have to
have the screen drawing the waveform while recording. You can simply
minimise Audacity while recording which will leave more processing power
for handling the recorded data, but you still have the potential issue of a
slow connection to the drive where your temporary folder is. Frankly if
there is enough space on the external hard drive to take Audacity's
temporary folder I would simply move data from the internal drive to the
external one and use the space freed on the internal drive for Audacity's
temporary folder.


Gale Andrews




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Re: program startup parameter

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    | From Jurgen Konings
    | Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:27:24 +0200
    | Subject: [Audacity-help] program startup parameter
    | I switched now to beta 1.3.3 and set that the audio must buffer into
    | the ram in stead of temp dir.
    | How does this feature work exactly ?
    | I saw that an average recording of 45 min (1 tape side) is 960 mb in temp
    | files.
    | But that much audio can't be stored in ram. I have 512 mb ram. So does it
    | save upto 512 mb in ram and then write it to the temp or ?
    | Because if i stop recording now after 45 minutes, it starts to write to the
    | temp file (on external 1.1 usb harddisk).
    | I think this is better (buffer in ram first) because ram is much faster than
    | usb 1.1

The "always hold all audio data in memory" option in the Directories tab of
the 1.3.3 Preferences only holds the data in memory whilst the recording is
being made. If there is insufficient RAM to cache the data directly it will be
swapped out to the system paging file (pagefile.sys), as long as it is large
enough. You may want to increase the size of pagefile.sys if you want to
record to memory, as by default Windows will probably set it to 768 MB.  
You can change the size of pagefile.sys in the Windows Control Panel (usually
in the System applet). You need to have pagefile.sys on your internal drive
though for speed of access, so if you need to increase pagefile.sys this
limits the advantage of having the temporary directory on the external drive.
   
As you noted, as soon as you stop recording, you'll see a message that the
audio data is being saved. It will be saved to your specified temporary
directory. Recording to memory therefore does indeed avoid problems with
saving the recording in real time to your temporary directory if the path to
that directory is over a slow USB or network connection. However the space
required in your temp. directory will be identical. If using the external drive for
the temp. directory is more convenient than moving files from the internal to
the external drive, recording to memory is a reasonable solution.

Note that from the size of your recorded data, you are currently recording at
Audacity's default 32 bit float quality. You can halve the disc space needed
for recording with only a limited (probably imperceptible) loss of quality if
you change the Default Sample Format so that Audacity records in 16 bit.
See:
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=General_Tips#Recording_Length


Gale Andrews
   
 
 


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Jurgen Konings

Re: program startup parameter

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Ok i changed from 32bit float to 16 bit PCM. But there is also 24bit.

What is the difference in these qualities ?

Is 16 bit much worse than 32 bit or is the difference unhearable ?

Thanks

2007/8/25, Audacity Help <[hidden email]>:

    | From Jurgen Konings
    | Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:27:24 +0200
    | Subject: [Audacity-help] program startup parameter
    | I switched now to beta 1.3.3 and set that the audio must buffer into
    | the ram in stead of temp dir.
    | How does this feature work exactly ?
    | I saw that an average recording of 45 min (1 tape side) is 960 mb in temp
    | files.
    | But that much audio can't be stored in ram. I have 512 mb ram. So does it
    | save upto 512 mb in ram and then write it to the temp or ?
    | Because if i stop recording now after 45 minutes, it starts to write to the
    | temp file (on external 1.1 usb harddisk).
    | I think this is better (buffer in ram first) because ram is much faster than
    | usb 1.1

The "always hold all audio data in memory" option in the Directories tab of
the 1.3.3 Preferences only holds the data in memory whilst the recording is
being made. If there is insufficient RAM to cache the data directly it will be
swapped out to the system paging file (pagefile.sys), as long as it is large
enough. You may want to increase the size of pagefile.sys if you want to
record to memory, as by default Windows will probably set it to 768 MB.
You can change the size of pagefile.sys in the Windows Control Panel (usually
in the System applet). You need to have pagefile.sys on your internal drive
though for speed of access, so if you need to increase pagefile.sys this
limits the advantage of having the temporary directory on the external drive.

As you noted, as soon as you stop recording, you'll see a message that the
audio data is being saved. It will be saved to your specified temporary
directory. Recording to memory therefore does indeed avoid problems with
saving the recording in real time to your temporary directory if the path to
that directory is over a slow USB or network connection. However the space
required in your temp. directory will be identical. If using the external drive for
the temp. directory is more convenient than moving files from the internal to
the external drive, recording to memory is a reasonable solution.

Note that from the size of your recorded data, you are currently recording at
Audacity's default 32 bit float quality. You can halve the disc space needed
for recording with only a limited (probably imperceptible) loss of quality if
you change the Default Sample Format so that Audacity records in 16 bit.
See:
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=General_Tips#Recording_Length


Gale Andrews





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Re: program startup parameter

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    | From Jurgen Konings
    | Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:05:40 +0200
    | Subject: [Audacity-help] program startup parameter
    | Ok i changed from 32bit float to 16 bit PCM. But there is also 24bit.
    | What is the difference in these qualities ?
    | Is 16 bit much worse than 32 bit or is the difference unhearable ?

As I said, 16 bit quality of recording may well not be perceptually inferior
to 32 bit quality for many listeners, even if you compared recordings by
simply playing them back in Audacity. This would be especially true if you
did not edit them. Bear in mind that to play the recorded audio in computer
media players, you are almost certainly going to have to either truncate it
to 16 bit anyway for export as an uncompressed WAV or AIFF file, or
compress it in other ways (e.g. by exporting as an MP3). Not many computer
media players can play 24 bit WAV or AIFF files let alone 32 bit, and if you are
burning the WAV/AIFF files to audio CD the files are required to be 16 bit by
the format specification.

Even if you have to export a 16 bit file, there is a theoretical advantage in
recording at 32 bit float, then dithering down to 16 bit ("High quality dither"
on the Quality tab of Preferences), rather than avoiding the downsampling
altogether by recording in 16 bit. Whether the user could genuinely hear the
difference in a double blind test on two exported 16 bit files from a 32 bit
and 16 bit recording respectively is another matter.    

Higher sample sizes (e.g. 24 bit against 16 bit) allow more bits in each
sample to be captured and thus allow more dynamic range to be captured -
see a brief explanation here:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/manual-1.2/tutorial_basics_1.html 

32 bit quality in Audacity is especially beneficial because it is floating point
data (hence "float" in "32 bit float").  Normalised floating point values are
quicker and easier to process on computers than fixed integer values and
allow greater dynamic range to retained even after editing.  This is because
intermediate signals during audio processing can have very variable values.
If they all get truncated to a fixed integer format, you can't boost them back
up to full scale without losing resolution (i.e. without the data becoming less
representative of the original than it was before). With floating point,
rounding errors during intermediate processing are negligible.

The (theoretically audible) advantage of this is that 32-bit floating point
format has no noise floor. For example, with fixed integer data, applying a
compressor effect to lower the peaks by 9 dB and separately amplifying back
up would cost 9dB (or more than 2 bits) of signal to noise ratio (SNR). If
done with floating point data, the SNR of the peaks remains as good as
before (except that the quiet passages are 9dB louder and so 9dB noisier
due to the noise they had in the first place).

If you are concerned, do a test recording of a short passage in 32 bit float,
make some edits involving scaling the volume (e.g. compressor and FFT Filter)
and export to your intended format e.g. 16 bit WAV or MP3. Record the same
passage in 16 bit quality, make exactly the same edits with the same
parameters and export to the same format, and compare the two exported
audio files.      


Gale Andrews



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Jurgen Konings

Re: program startup parameter

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Can i request a feature (or is it already in 1.3.3)

I recorded about 6 different audio songs.

So there are 6 stereo tracks beneath eachother.

How can i see what the total length in minutes and seconds of this is ?

Thanks !

2007/8/26, Audacity Help <[hidden email]>:

    | From Jurgen Konings
    | Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:05:40 +0200
    | Subject: [Audacity-help] program startup parameter
    | Ok i changed from 32bit float to 16 bit PCM. But there is also 24bit.
    | What is the difference in these qualities ?
    | Is 16 bit much worse than 32 bit or is the difference unhearable ?

As I said, 16 bit quality of recording may well not be perceptually inferior
to 32 bit quality for many listeners, even if you compared recordings by
simply playing them back in Audacity. This would be especially true if you
did not edit them. Bear in mind that to play the recorded audio in computer
media players, you are almost certainly going to have to either truncate it
to 16 bit anyway for export as an uncompressed WAV or AIFF file, or
compress it in other ways (e.g. by exporting as an MP3). Not many computer
media players can play 24 bit WAV or AIFF files let alone 32 bit, and if you are
burning the WAV/AIFF files to audio CD the files are required to be 16 bit by
the format specification.

Even if you have to export a 16 bit file, there is a theoretical advantage in
recording at 32 bit float, then dithering down to 16 bit ("High quality dither"
on the Quality tab of Preferences), rather than avoiding the downsampling
altogether by recording in 16 bit. Whether the user could genuinely hear the
difference in a double blind test on two exported 16 bit files from a 32 bit
and 16 bit recording respectively is another matter.

Higher sample sizes (e.g. 24 bit against 16 bit) allow more bits in each
sample to be captured and thus allow more dynamic range to be captured -
see a brief explanation here:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/manual-1.2/tutorial_basics_1.html

32 bit quality in Audacity is especially beneficial because it is floating point
data (hence "float" in "32 bit float").  Normalised floating point values are
quicker and easier to process on computers than fixed integer values and
allow greater dynamic range to retained even after editing.  This is because
intermediate signals during audio processing can have very variable values.
If they all get truncated to a fixed integer format, you can't boost them back
up to full scale without losing resolution (i.e. without the data becoming less
representative of the original than it was before). With floating point,
rounding errors during intermediate processing are negligible.

The (theoretically audible) advantage of this is that 32-bit floating point
format has no noise floor. For example, with fixed integer data, applying a
compressor effect to lower the peaks by 9 dB and separately amplifying back
up would cost 9dB (or more than 2 bits) of signal to noise ratio (SNR). If
done with floating point data, the SNR of the peaks remains as good as
before (except that the quiet passages are 9dB louder and so 9dB noisier
due to the noise they had in the first place).

If you are concerned, do a test recording of a short passage in 32 bit float,
make some edits involving scaling the volume (e.g. compressor and FFT Filter)
and export to your intended format e.g. 16 bit WAV or MP3. Record the same
passage in 16 bit quality, make exactly the same edits with the same
parameters and export to the same format, and compare the two exported
audio files.


Gale Andrews



.



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Re: program startup parameter

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    | From Jurgen Konings
    | Sat, 8 Sep 2007 01:45:18 +0200
    | Subject: [Audacity-help] program startup parameter
    | Can i request a feature (or is it already in 1.3.3)
    | I recorded about 6 different audio songs.
    | So there are 6 stereo tracks beneath eachother.
    | How can i see what the total length in minutes and seconds of this is ?

You can always find the total length of your Project in 1.2.5/6 or 1.3.3 if
you press CTRL + A to select the entire length of all the tracks on screen.  
In 1.2.5/6 you will then see the length of the selection given in parentheses
(  ) at the bottom of the program, to right of the Project Rate. In 1.3.3 the
length is given in the middle box of the Selection Bar in the same location
at the bottom of the program (if that box is set to "length"). Please see:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/features-1.3-d.php

For all features in 1.3.3 not in 1.2.5/6 please see:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/features-1.3-a


Gale Andrews



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