peter preston

[derry fan]

hi does any know where i can see the bout between mick mc manus and peter preston i think it was the first time mick lost on tv or if anyone has it could they e mail it to me if possible  hope someone can help

[grizzledveteran]

I don't believe any record of this bout would survive because my recollection is this was broadcast in the days the wrestling was a live outside broadcast and every week we suffered the irritation of matches being faded before the end.
Normally the main event.

It is true that Preston was ahead by a fall when it was faded and at some later stage it was announced that McManus had been disqualified. Of very little interest to other than the dedicated fans, and Preston returned to anonymity.

It was later that McManus built up his 'invincible' run culminating in his eventual defeat by Tony StClair and as Mick sagely remarked when helping Kent Walton commentate on a StClair match 'Look at that beats me on tv and now he is Heavyweight Champion'.

[Anglo Italian]

Spot on, Grizzled Veteran.

But I am surprised you want to play down the interest in this match, for me it's up there with the shooting of JFK and the capture of Sadam Hussein.

[Eddie Rose]

Hi Anglo Italian!

Peter Preston was one of the most engaging, positive characters I ever met in wrestling. I once spent a week with him on one of Eric Taylor's West Counrty tours taking in St Ives, Plymouth, Seaton, Ilfracombe and Exmouth.

Also on that particular trip were Ian Mad Dog Wilson, Judo John Brown, Jimmy McCumbrey, George Burgess (The Jamaica Kid) and Jackie Pallo. The good natured banter between Pallo and Preston was fantastically entertaining and Peter used to address Pallo as "Old Custard Lugs, the pantomime dame."

There were many conversation about the Preston V McManus bout of the previous year but Peter was reluctant to discuss it in detail not even to Pallo who wanted to hear all the gory details about the shindig; after all Pallo and McManus were the bitterest of rivals.

All I can remember is that Preston stated McManus HAD to get himself disqualifed to prevent a defeat by Northern upstart and so preserve his TV image. I don't think Preston ever worked for Joint Promotions afterwards or got another TV show; nor did Pallo.

I would add that I liked both Pallo and Preston very much as men and as wrestlers and, for that matter, the rest of the lads mentioned above. What a great week we had and all Eric Taylor's West Country tours were great fun for lads and excellent entertainment for the fans,

[Anglo Italian]

Thanks Eddie,

Great further information on a subject from 42 years ago we might have thought dead and one where forum life works at its postive best.

I am trying to piece together the sequence in your post because Pallo certainly worked loads for JP even after spring 1968, a year after the bout itself.  It looks like the tour was 1968.

The whole Pallo & Son push and even Pallo v McManus IV at the Albert Hall were all to follow 1971 to 1974.

But that's just me being picky. The detail surrounding Peter Preston is more important to the whole matter.

Peter Preston certainly did wrestle for Joint Promotions after the McManus episode, in fact Norman Morrell elevated him to top of the bill status with an "invincible" run and wrestling the likes of George Kidd,. Masambula and, ever more intriguingly, Steve Logan - that was a feud after Logan was defeated!  Preston was also the opponent for the Wild Man of Borneo in the hairy one's sole tv appearance.

These were JP bouts Up North, it is true he was never seen in Dale Martin rings again, but then he hadn't been much before.

Remember the Lime Grove setting of the McManus bout was that oddity of a Norman Morrell venue in London - that in itself takes some fathoming.

That Preston should immediately get the mega-push is surely more than coincidence and makes us wonder what brittle relationships and boardroom struggles lay at the heart of the Joint Promotions cartel.

Really, our ponderings at the end of the Peter Rann Shining Stars entry seem more and more likely by the day.

Southerners like Grizzled Veteran and yours truly recall the bout being faded out, but I have just had hack in my shell-like all the very looong weekend reminding me that in some areas (Granada anyway) the whole bout and disqualification were aired.  Looks like Norman Morrell also had Granada tv wrapped up, and Dale Martin ATV!!!

Eddie's comments that Preston was "engaging and positive" simply astound me - he gave off quite a more mundane feeling.

Funnily enough, in an anorak-minded way, I can complete another triangle that Preston duly nicked Pallo's erstwhile tag partner, Alan Colbeck and went off to form the modestly named Masters tag team.  So, calling Ray Plunkett and his endless resources - was there ever a McManus & Logan versus The Masters match-up?  I feel pretty sure there wouldn't have been.

Finally, the most intriguing and new point about Eddie's post is that Pallo didn't know what had happened and Preston  wouldn't talk about it.  Skulduggery galore, for sure!

Actually, maybe my own words have unearthed something as I reread this.  If Preston had been JP (Morrell) but never selected for southern action, maybe this was his own big payback motive to DM's biggest name?

Fascinating timeless topic seemingly without solutions ............

[Eddie Rose]

Hi Anglo

40-odd years ago! Wow! I didn't realise I was that old. From memory (and I've almost forgotten what that is) I think the specific tour of West Of England I was on with Peter Preston was about '72 but I'll unearth my records (every bout, every opponent, every venue, every result and every wage packet) and check it out.

I also think you're correct about the Granada TV programming and they did show the disqualification.

I too often wondered about the politics involved within Joint Promotions and whether or not politics was at play in this bout; a north versus south thing?

[Dave Sutherland]

Did I read somewhere years later Peter Preston stating that he was about to jump ship around the time of the Mc Manus bout and join another promotor or introduce his own set up? Therefore he disobeyed the "rules" thus causing the unprecidented result.
Another question; was Peter Preston related to anyone in the wrestling game? On the odd occasions that he fought at Newcastle one of the women in the audience, who knew her wrestling, would often shout out about him not being as good as his father. Can anyone help there?

[Anglo Italian]

Morning Ernie,

Just to show you I'm not a total nerd with all these dates in my head.

The only reason I am so aware at this time of the early 1967 date of this bout is that if you look on Years of Wrestling on this site we are at 1966.  We are working on the draft of 1967, a hell of a lot of work involved as with every corner of this site, but the McManus v Preston bout is already well covered in the 1967 draft.

I'd exclude also for your tour, without looking anything up and from memory only, 1972.  Pallo was hot with DMs at that time.

I'd guess Pallo's wilderness years were 1969 to 1971 inclusive.  (I wonder why he had this first spell in the desert soon after McManus v Pallo III in 1967 ..... but that's another story, he returned seemingly unblemished.)

You could understand Peter Preston being cagey about the bout just a year later but very surprising he'd still be guarding any secret very much longer.

Skulduggery for sure, we just don't know what.

The nepotism theory is always valid in wrestling as family ties counted enormously.

[grizzledveteran]

The last couple of post s have been fascinating because they reveal some interesting facts that I certainly hadn’t been aware of.
Thanks to the internet we all now know that it was not uncommon for unbeatable favourites in one area to become fall guys in another. Something suspected by the hard core that used to swap programmes and results all those years ago.

Consequently I regard the actual result of the bout to be somewhat irrelevant and the posturing to be predictable.

Of course Preston says McManus had to get disqualified, to paraphrase Mandy Rice-Davies ‘He would wouldn’t he?’

What I find far more interesting is that even amongst his own he was reluctant to go into detail, which starts to suggest something more. But that is getting ahead of my theory.

At that time wrestling was the last sector of a national Saturday afternoon sport programme and lead into the football results the start of which was sacrosanct. The wrestling was allegedly a ‘live broadcast’ which lead to those frustrating and infuriating fade outs of the last and often most interesting bout to go to the results.

Now if Hack is correct and the full bout was shown on Granada then logically given the fixed finish time either;  the show started earlier, the bouts were shown in a different order, another of the bouts  wasn’t shown, or the wrestling was allowed to overrun.

The last possibility I find extremely unlikely given the importance accorded to the football, as the pivotal start to Saturday nights viewing. Nor do I believe the bout appeared of sufficient importance or that the promoter was influential enough to cause this to happen.

The obvious conclusion is that the wrestling was in fact pre-recorded but presented as a live broadcast. Which begs the question why?

Was it to reinforce the illusion it was a “real” sport and could not be contained in a fixed length slot, or to tempt us into going to live shows by leaving us wanting more, or so that any loss by a local favourite could be diminished?

This particular show was broadcast from Lime Grove Baths which was a Morrell venue in London. Anglo feels this is strange as of course London was considered exclusive Dale Martin territory. However Morrell’s also promoted at Eltham Baths in London and the obvious conclusion is that whatever the reason, this was with the agreement and cooperation of DM as their bills featured many of the local stars.

Remember the Joint Promotions cartel claimed at one time to be the biggest promotion in the world and DM were by far the biggest of the members and could have made it very difficult for any opposition from within by withholding performers and running spoiler shows locally.

When rumours first began about this bout it was suggested Preston had done a deal with an independent promoter to double-cross MM & JP what is now clear from his subsequent push was  that it was all prearranged by Morrell.

Bearing in mind that JP was such a powerful and perhaps more importantly extremely profitable business it is frankly incomprehensible that any member promoter would put that at risk.

Which deliberately double-crossing another member by devaluing one of their  biggest stars might very well be likely to do.

 
When they met in January 1967 Preston had been wrestling full time for less than two years, having been a part-timer in the preceding year. McManus on the other hand had been active for over twenty years having started in the forties when the sport was more legitimate and would not have survived that time at the top without learning sufficient tricks of the trade to protect himself if someone started taking liberties.

I know it is fashionable to knock McManus but I believe he is due more credit.

It is not true that Preston was immediately exiled by JP, he appeared on TV again in November of the same year against Souris Tsickrikas.  He was also featured in The Wrestler magazine in February 68 and August 70 by which time he had adopted the persona of a ring villain. In the Who’s Who of Wrestling published in 1970 he also has an entry including his claim to have beaten McManus albeit by disqualification.

Consequently I am convinced the whole thing was a “Work”.

I suggest that Norman Morrell ,for some unknown reason, wanted to push Preston and DM agreed that McManus would “lose” in some way that wouldn’t damage his reputation and spoil his future value. A disqualification being an ideal solution.

If Hack is correct then there was clearly some agreement to show the whole bout up north and fade it out down south where the continuity announcer giving the result after the football results would be largely overlooked.

Preston could then be built up in the Morrell area and McManus continue his planned long unbeatable run on TV.  

[Anglo Italian]

Great logical thought Grizz.  And I love the Profumo-speak.

(I left a breathing space for others to react, I don't w!ant to swamp this with my comments, but must now answer yet again as the previous post merits a response.)

I am aware of the fact that Morrell had London venues.  But this is still very strange in itself.

Yes, I too was rocked to learn about masked losses for Bartelli and Nagasaki over the net.  However, I will still disagree with you, Grizzled Veteran!.

It does not follow from the subsequent push that Morrell had planned it all.  Morrell could just have found himself with this renegade situation and decided to make the most of it rather than blackball Preston.  Actually, it looks like Preston was sidelined by the other JP members too as a result.

Good evidence regarding The Wrestler - but it just opens another can of worms.  The Wrestler seemed clearly to be a JP mouthpiece but again we have no clear knowledge of this theory, and some oddball inclusions were always in there, amateur wrestling being one.  But yes, preston seemed to be forgiven and embraced in some corners of JPs, and punished in others.

The fading out is one issue, but it is less important for me than the result.  You are convinced it was a Work.  If it was, why did Preston and McManus not go on to milk it, do the rounds?  That doesn't fit at all.

A real mystery.  Is Peter Preston still alive?  If he wouldn't tell Eddie and Jackie, he'll hardly tell me .......

[Beancounter]

Yes, Hack is quite correct, the whole bout was definitely shown on Granada.I clearly recall  Preston attaining the first fall and remember thinking 'here goes, McManus to win by a knockout', as was usually the case in his contests against less experienced opponents.
However, Preston really set about McManus who, I think, delivered a punch and was disqualified.
Following this, McManus had a long unbeaten spell on television until he was toppled by Tony St Clair 2 - 1. Some short time thereafter, presumably to show that he could in fact defeat heavier opponents, McManus was billed on TV against Peter Wilson, a wrestler a class or two below St Clair, and won easily.

[grizzledveteran]

Interesting comments as always Anglo, but I remain convinced it was a work because your hypothesis doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

What about the referee? We all now know the ref is the promoter’s man and directs the bout where necessary. In your scenario, Preston decides to renege, Morrell and McManus don’t know and fortuitously and by sheer coincidence the wrestling is live and exceptionally on this occasion overruns.

The ref would have seen what was happening and would have disqualified Preston on some imaginary infraction to preserve the status quo. But of course the ref knows full well the plan and disqualifies McManus as arranged.

Beancounter has now confirmed Hacks assertion the bout was shown in full on Granada, even though it was faded elsewhere.  It must therefore have been pre-recorded and as such if Preston had “gone into business for himself” it simply would not have been shown as happened in later years with The American Dream Chris Colt.

Clearly there was some collusion between Morrell and DM for it to be shown this way to create some local interest in Morrell’s area but minimise any reaction elsewhere and the report in The Wrestler follows this line by reporting the bout as being faded out.

Whether there was an unknown historical reason that Morrell’s had London venues they clearly worked hand in hand with DM on them. Looking back at programmes I have, the bills were 50/50 Northern/Southern wrestlers and I am of the opinion that Morrell’s wouldn’t want to risk that cosy relationship by some sort of double cross to push a relative unknown.

JP were renown for the tight control they applied to their performers with any infractions swiftly punished by bookings drying up, etc It was a truly powerful cartel that called the shots.

They wouldn’t have stood any wrestler not following instructions never mind rewarding him with top of the Bill status. Because if you let one get away with it others will follow and you end up with the lunatics running the asylum and losing control of your extremely lucrative business.

Anglo suggests that Preston was embraced by some JP members and exiled by others but what evidence is there of this? He may not have been seen in the DM area but why would he if he was getting such a good push in the frozen north?

The Wrestler magazine was indeed the JP mouthpiece and I don’t find the inclusion of amateur wrestling strange and see it as an attempt to legitimise the sports image. Many boxing magazines likewise carried similar articles about amateur or service boxing and boxers. Equally I don’t believe Preston would have got any mention had he been in bad odour with any of the JP members. He needed them more than they needed him.

Why did they not go on to milk it round the halls?  No need.

It was a non-event in the South reduced to a continuity announcement, never mentioned again on TV, and dispassionately recorded in the Wrestler TV review.

McManus was still topping the bills around the country and Preston meanwhile had apparently got some sort of push to top billing in the North and was doing the rounds accordingly. Thus the” work” achieved its object very neatly, without damaging McManus in any way.

I think it is a tribute to the impression McManus made in his audience that now over forty years later there are still fans hugging themselves in delight on the nebulous possibility that he may have been brought down by being double crossed.

[Anglo Italian]

No quibbling with your closing tribute to Mick McManus, Grizzled Veteran.  This 2009 interest is directly due to his tireless dedication and travelling and reliability over decades.

For the rest, we'll debate long and hard but there can be no right answer as we'll probably never know.

The Wrestler and ITV are interesting bits of circumstantial evidence here, mysteries in themselves.

You introduce the referee's role and are 100% right to do so ... it just ends up confusing me even more.  Nice one, though.

I agree with you 100% that Dale Martins punished wrestlers by drying up bookings.

However, you say there is no evidence of Preston being punished and bookings drying up.  I disagree.
He never ever wrestled for Dale Martins.  McManus would hardly have got involved with such a voluntary sacrifice to have no further in-ring mileage out of it.   I also believe that if you look at Preston's northern billings, several of the other Joint Promoters excluded him.  The one who championed him was clearly Norman Morrell.

Trying to come to my own proposed solution in the light of all the above.

And in so doing, I remind myself of a major feature on this site entitled Wrestling's Most Influential and I remind myself that Number One on that list was said Norman Morrell.  Maybe here he lives up to that billing.
I also refer to events chronicled in the sections Years of Wrestling 1965 and 1966.

FACTS
We have never unearthed the nature of the relationship between promoters in what I casually called a cartel above.  What degrees of friendship and jealousy?  What rights did they have to talent and halls?
Dale Martins merged with or took over Paul Lincoln Promotions 1.1.1966.
Norman Morrell cherry picked his favourite Lincoln imports Wild Man of Borneo and Al Hayes in 1967 and 1968, but did not give work to the majority.
Morrell used Preston extensively after the bout in question and later used him on a tv bill against Wild man of Borneo.

THEORIES
Disagreeing totally with Grizzled Veteran, and this is the rub,  that DM and Morrell worked hand-in-hand on the London venues, I believe this was a source of great frustration for DMs, and we believe by this time DM was Mick McManus.  Morrell had his rights by virtue of the Joint Promotions rule book and exercised them vigorously in the face of McManus.  He probably had other similar rights as he selfishly cherry-picked the Lincoln imports.

McManus never ever again wrestled on a Morrell bill.  Is that true?  I may be wrong, but it's my impression.
This would be telling evidence.

But Morrell had his obligations to the JP rulebook too, and could not be seen to be pulling a fast one.  He therefore bought off Preston, a lowly undercarder, sworn to secrecy over these events by Morrell, hence Eddie's early revelation in this thread.  Hence also that the referee was unaware of the double-cross and worked in collaboration with McManus to bring about the disqualification of what seemed a renegade wrestler.  The Wrestler tellingly gave the dispassionate account you mention precisely to steer interest away from the scandal:  people who recall the bout describe McManus scampering desperately to get himself disqualified.  This is one reason why we are discussing this bout.

Preston's reward was no doubt a serious bung and the top-billing we have mentioned.  He had an engaging personality according to Eddie, so Morrell probably felt safe with him.

McManus was probably perfectly aware of this collusion, but had no evidence.

Wild Man of Borneo had no more tv work and was soon banished from JPs.  Any payback there by association?
At this time Kendo Nagasaki was deemed unsuitable for tv work, maybe the Wild Man was too, for the good of the business trying to look straight, but Morrell deliberately broke ranks as he could strictly by the rulebook.

McManus would only have lost willingly to someone he was going to feud with or to pave the way for a new face headed for glory.  We have evidence of this with his tv defeats ten years later by Mal Sanders and Tony St Clair, both headed for championship glory - Sanders with the McManus property belt!  Neither was snuffed out like Preston was.

CONCLUSION

There was great anomosity between Morrell and McManus.  But both were professional enough not to let it destroy the Joint Promotions network.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Finally, we have extended the payback theory in the Rann v Kellett feud of 1972.  I now want to extend the feud backwards in time, to the root of the animosity.  Perhaps the 1952 carve-up of the country along Yalta lines did not suit Morrell.  He then had his nose rolled in it when the portly McManus for whatever reason was improbably empowered with relieving shooter Jack Dempsey of his British title in 1958.  These are three visible episodes in the animosity, if we scratch deeper I am sure we would uncover many more.

Thanks for your input, Grizzled Veteran, I am enjoying this debate enormously and in typing find that my thoughts develop and I didn't know I was going to sit down and write this little lot.

[JNLister]

It must therefore have been pre-recorded and as such if Preston had “gone into business for himself” it simply would not have been shown as happened in later years with The American Dream Chris Colt.

It's worth remembering that by the time of the Colt incident, a live event would usually be split into episodes broadcast three and ten days later, so there would have been much more time to make the decision to cut a bout, find a replacement, and come up with an excuse if needed should ITV ask any questions.

In the late 60s period, the understanding I've always had is that there'd be a live event on Saturday afternoon with some matches broadcast live and others taped for the following Wednesday evening. However, it is possible the Saturday matches were actually taped earlier in the afternoon.

If that were the case, then (putting aside the issue of what actually happened in the Preston/McManus match), it's possible that Morrell could have rejigged the Lime Grove broadcasts for the Granada region to make sure that the entire bouts aired, thus making sure viewers in 'his' areas got the full impact of the match outcomes for 'his' stars.

[Hack]

What an absorbing thread, and I declare my admiration for  those who have discussed this topic to such a high standard.

Enough of the compliments.

I was half expecting Miss Marple or Hercule Poirot (sort out the parts between yourself Anglo Italian and Grizzley) to walk in and tell us what really happened. Mind you, Peter Preston himself is well aware of the Wrestling Heritage site, and his family (if not the man himself) read this forum, and so we can live in hope.

Almost everything that has been said, of course, is pure speculation, as are my own utterings. Oh, come on Peter, you're amongst friends here.

Yes, we have established beyond any doubt that the match was shown in full in some regions,the influence of the promoter over the tv production is mere speculation, but if that was the case it really does open up a new can of worms about the editorial integrity of he production team. Professional wrestling was produced by the ITV sports department, surely they would never have presented wrestling as a  competitive sport if they had known that this was not the case? Surely the promoters would never divulge the biggest secret of all to anyone outside the business.

I do disagree that the result of the bout was of little significance at the time. By 1967 McManus was already invincible on the small screen. Beancounter may also recall that a third contest followed the McManus/Preston main event and during this bout Kent Walton commented on the stunned crowd who were uncharacteristically quiet as they realised the significance of what they had just witnessed.

We often say that results are of little importance, but result patterns do give an indication of the wrestlers place in the pecking order, and whether the promoter sees him as someone on the up, or down. Peter Preston's results pattern is very interesting. Prior to the McManus bout, in January 1967, his record was unenviable to say the least. Throughout 1967 he could beat anyone it seemed, Kidd, Pallo, Royal, Logan et al, no one was safe from this new giant killer. All in the midlands, north and Scotland, of course, and almost exclusively for Morrell & Beresford or Relwyskow and Green.  Not forgetting those high profile straight fall  wins over The Wild Man of Borneo and Ezzard Hart on television. But then something odd happened around mid 1968. The big wins became few and far between, and Peter Preston  began to lose to other under card wrestlers.  It would seem, therefore, that any big plans for Preston in January, 1967, had fizzled out eighteen months later. He did continue to work regularly for Morrell.

Norman Morrell must have instigated the double cross; if Preston had gone against Norman then he wouldn't have worked for him again and we know exactly the opposite is true. Anglo Italian suggests that Norman was making the best of a bad job, but I think if  it had been Peter's initiative then the only way to make the best of the bad job would be to make sure he didn't work again. Can't have the lunatics.....  

The suggestion by Grizzled Veteran that Dale Martin was in on the whole thing is intriguing. I loved the idea but I can't buy it. If Dale Martin had agreed to the double cross then they would have wanted a piece of the cake and have Preston back down south for numerous return contests.  

It would have been very difficult for Joint Promotions to “pull” the broadcast because of the unfortunate ending as this would have aroused just too many suspicions of those in the broadcasting business of the motives for such a move.

So, Morrell bunged Preston a seemingly princely sum to double cross McManus. Preston welcomed the money and the prospect of Norman making him into a star. Inside two years  Morrell realised that fans were not taking to his new “star,” or maybe Peter wasn't quite as co-operative or grateful as Norman expected.

Why would Norman do this? We don't know, of course, but Anglo has put together a few good guesses. Add to his conjecture another two pennyworth. Norman had always seen himslef as something of top dog. The champion wrestler, the first rate promoter, the creator of Kidd, Kellett and many others. Now he'd always been a bit miffed by the success of Dale Martin Promotions. More miffed that not only had they made a fortune when they sold out to the Hurst Park syndicate but the family firm were still on the payroll managing the business; talk about having your cake and eating it.!  None of them were getting any younger and so he could see that by selling out they were about to let his beloved sport fall into the hands of uncaring business men. So, hit them where it hurt and beat their number one man on tv.

Unless Peter  or Mick would like to come on here and tell us otherwise.

The Man We Loved To Hate
The Real Mr TV
Peter Preston
Wrestling's Most Influential

[The Outlaw]

This all makes me think there never was much harmony between the promoters. If there had normally been goodwill then a deceit by Norman Morrell or by one of his wrestlers would have ended in a big bust up. It didn't and so I guess they often disagreed with each other.

[paul mitchell]

Just a couple of comments  i always found that some promoters within  Joint tolerated other promoters not always a North/south divide.Peter on the occasions i shared bill with him seemed a little aloof  perhaps just  a bad day at  the office.He certainly  had at least two dressing room rucks with a certain heayweight masked man,re his father  being  a pro  i recall being  told  this.Peter was a stonemason  funny that was Brian Crabtrees former job.

[Eddie Rose]

This last posting has to be from the original Paul Mitchell of Salford.

Paul, I remeber when we were both young and wrestled each other occasionally as well as meeting at Panther's gym and on Sunday mornings at Wryton Stadium in Bolton.

You were  a very gifted wrestler and I remember on one occasion I just managed to side step your dropkick and you landed full tilt with the top rope mangling your wedding tackle: the only time I got a decision over you.

It's great to read your message on the Forum and trust you're keeping well and enjoying life.

My best wishes
Eddie Rose

[Anglo Italian]

Paul's comments give us more insight into the personality of Peter Preston.

It seems like we have pretty much worked out what was going on judging by preceding and especially ensuing events.

So we are left with a Power Struggle between McManus and Morrell.

I just wonder where that left the other northern Joint Promoters like Rewyskow, Wryton, and especially Beresford?

At a general level, and writing as ever as a "mere" southerner, why couldn't these northern promoters get together and make a decent fist of organising things together?  

Just makes me think Jack Dale was perhaps the most influential of all, as he managed domination of over half the country, rather than of part of a county .....

[Riot Squad]

Did Peter Preston attend either of the northern reunions?

I see Jackie Pallo had a 1979 victory over Preston.  Must have been some talk that night.