"no layoff clause"

[mick86]

as a 10 yr regular working 6 days a week just to get 40 hrs of pay while carriers with less years in are still being paid for 8-9 hrs a day,i think we as a union need to let the "no layoff clause"go.there is less work to be divided among the same number of carriers.it wont be long before this craft is made up of only 40h's and substandard routes.whats your take?

[James Pillow]

I must respectfully disagree. I have less than two years in as a full-time carrier and I DON'T want to be laid off. This is a dangerous time to be giving up Article 6, given the declining mail volume and the fact that the PO is threatening the other crafts with layoffs. It's also one of the few things we have left that the other crafts don't have, and its one of the few tools our board has at the negotiating table.

[just alan]

I'm with you James, we must not give up Art.6 for any reason.
We must all sink or swim together, and I don't want National to use this as a bargaining chip to get something else by giving it up. Our ranks will already shrink by attrition and the failure of the PO to market its products better.

[mick86]

we are already a fractured craft with some thriving(regular days off,getting up to 46hrs a week pay)and the rest suffering(working 6 days barely making 40 hrs a week).any other work place gets rid of workers with less seniority when work disappears why should we be any different?

[5rebel5]

Alan.... do you really want to "sink together" because we ain't ALL going to be swimming when this is all over, especially after the next mail count..... the mail volume simply will not support it .... most of us are going to be working SIX DAYS A WEEK, EVERY WEEK at less than 40 hours and still dropping with every mail count.... I predict after the next contract negotiations there will be less of us anyway.... I'm not sure if it will be the lower seniority folks or the higher ones who no longer have a job, but things are going to CHANGE because they must... this is just another argument for going hourly.... but, I'm kind of like you;  I'd rather see the entire Postal Service implode and be on unemployment than continue to see ONLY the rural carriers bear the burden of declining mail volume... as far as the no layoff clause, the USPS is blatantly violating contracts with all the crafts every day anyway.... do you think they won't violate that one??... we'll see.... something BIG is coming down SOON... maybe 5 day delivery??...I have a heavy volume route and I've never seen such little mail (in 30 years).... I just FEEL it coming.... we'll see....

[James Pillow]

I love the way we have two carriers who have been here a long time and would be unaffected by losing the no layoff clause telling us it's ok to scrap it. I suspect both of you would be demanding we keep it if you had less than 5 years in! And Rebel, this is exactly why we DON'T need to go hourly. There won't be any overtime with declining mail volume, most of us will have belowaveragevisors on top of us harassing us to make sure of that. There won't be any hourly pay for carriers in the unemployment line; way to show compassion for fellow rural carriers. If we throw out the evaluated system, we throw out the L-route compromise that stopped the PO from converting high density routes to city delivery, so exactly how many rural routes will there be left if the PO can once again convert L-routes to city? Hourly pay won't do a rural carrier any good that loses their route to the NALC.  

[5rebel5]

Hey James... lighten up.. I didn't say anything about supporting layoffs for the rural carriers, but you shouldn't be under the illusion that USPS won't violate THAT part of our contract like they have violated other parts if they choose to do so.... AND, the only way most of us are getting any "overtime" anyway is by working a H or J route (SIX DAYS A WEEK!!) at barely 40 hours... and if you read what I said you will see that I don't know if it will be the lower or higher seniority carriers keeping their jobs, but with the mail volume we have now (and in the future), there is NO WAY all of us including RCA's are going to be able to make a decent living if we continue to be paid by volume.... I don't know what they are going to do about layoffs, etc, but I know they are already working our RCA's in all kinds of clerk work EVERYDAY in our offices, VIOLATING clerk contracts, which the clerks grieve and win $$ on their paychecks, but the postmaster says "I'll just pay the clerks because it's cheaper to work the RCA's and pay the grievances"... so the USPS doesn't mind violating contracts, do they?? .... and the L route concept is BULLSHIT too.... I have 17.60 miles and the high mileage routes get back to the office BEFORE me and some of the other lower mileage routes because we STILL have allot more mail.... their only salvation is their mileage.. they are K routes ONLY because of their mileage... I never understood the logic behind the L route thing.... and didn't Potter recently say that all the new territory will given to rural because it's "cheaper to deliver rural"??  ..... AND, the city carriers don't have enough mail for an eight hour day any more than we do... I was questioning one of them last Saturday and he told me "we just simply slow down.. we are guaranteed eight hours anyway"..... and just so you know, as a high seniorty carrier, I'd almost agree to retire if I could know that I would be leaving behind a craft that has some hope for the future.... like it is now, the only hope our people have is the next mail count in which they can EXPECT to lose thousands more and have NO DAYS OFF!... how does the prospect of making HALF your current salary sound?? while the other crafts have lost NOTHING of their salary; they just "slow down"... RCA's will have little hope of going regular because the regular routes are losing and not gaining time.... I stand by my comment about seeing the Post Office implode.... I would rather see ALL OF US INCLUDING MANAGEMENT pay the price than see what I'm seeing now with the rural carriers being eaten alive by these damn cheatin mail counts... I'm done with it... sorry, that's just how I feel..... like I said "we'll see".... the future is going to be interesting.