ecn progress

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Dave Ball

ecn progress

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I've moved ecn0026 (SD card emi filters), 30 (Telit modem) and 34 (debug
spi) to execute, and committed (hopefully) all the relevant changes.  
Fingers crossed, these should be quick to review, and then close off.


Does anyone know what still needs to be done before closing the
following ecn's?
 - 0001  Remove Glamo (U1801)
 - 0002  Remove NOR (U2501)
 - 0008  Remove external GPS antenna connector and circuit (CON7602)
 - 0017  Move Bluetooth module (U2) to main PCB

AFAIK the schematic changes have been made for each of these - so it
might just be getting the documentation in order?


Dave

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AlvieBoy

Re: ecn progress

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Dave Ball wrote:
> Does anyone know what still needs to be done before closing the
> following ecn's?
>  - 0008  Remove external GPS antenna connector and circuit (CON7602)

We still have a caps with unknown value there.

I had not the time to compute its proper value (and alas I don't even know if I can do that :P). Maybe someone can help here.

Álvaro

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Werner Almesberger

Re: ecn progress

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Dave Ball wrote:
> Does anyone know what still needs to be done before closing the
> following ecn's?
>  - 0001  Remove Glamo (U1801)

Describe the software changes. Should we add a "Software" state that
indicates that the hardware changes are done ?

>  - 0002  Remove NOR (U2501)

Idem. I slightly updated the hardware changes, so that part should be
good new.

>  - 0008  Remove external GPS antenna connector and circuit (CON7602)

Hmm, the mystery cap, a quick review, and it's done. I had a look at
it a while ago and it looked good.

>  - 0017  Move Bluetooth module (U2) to main PCB

I've updated ECN0017. Needs a review, then it's good to go.

One question: what do we do with the evil backup battery ? I've written
ECN0040 to discuss the issue
http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/gta02-core/docs/ecn/ecn0040.txt

- Werner

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Werner Almesberger

Re: ecn progress

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Dave Ball wrote:
> I've moved ecn0026 (SD card emi filters),

How about ESD, also for the SIM ?

- Werner

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Rask Ingemann Lambertsen-2

ECN0040: Remove backup battery (Was: ecn progress)

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In reply to this post by Werner Almesberger
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:46:44AM -0300, Werner Almesberger wrote:

> One question: what do we do with the evil backup battery ? I've written
> ECN0040 to discuss the issue

   OK, I thought we weren't going to try doing something about it, but here
goes (in the order of the ECN):

   When the backup battery was last discussed, I looked for
(super)capacitors as a replacement, but didn't find anything with near the
same capacity in a similar space. But at least in my GTA02, the backup
battery doesn't last for more than 5-10 minutes anyway, so maybe we don't
have to do better than that. The interesting use cases for a backup battery
or similar storage device are:

1) Keep time while swapping SIM and/or SD card. A few minutes at 50 uA.
2) Keep memory in suspend while swapping battery. 10-20 seconds at 8 mA.

   The latter would require that we figure out something with the adapter
input of the PCF50633 and some means of recharging the supercapacitor or
whatever we come up with.

   I don't think we've had problems with undefined state on power up. If we
manage to power up at all, we can (and do) load our own settings anyway.

--
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year

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Werner Almesberger

Re: ECN0040: Remove backup battery (Was: ecn progress)

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Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote:
>    When the backup battery was last discussed, I looked for
> (super)capacitors as a replacement, but didn't find anything with near the
> same capacity in a similar space.

Once upon a time, I think it was for one of the GTA03 designs, we looked
for one and found something with the same size and some huge capacity.
But someone was afraid the PMU might not like a capacitor.

> But at least in my GTA02, the backup
> battery doesn't last for more than 5-10 minutes anyway,

That's bad :-( I guess it just underlines that the backup battery isn't
a long-lived component.

> 1) Keep time while swapping SIM and/or SD card. A few minutes at 50 uA.

Hmm, if we can keep this in the <= 2 min range, the "keep time in the
modem" approach would be feasible (220 uF). Better with <= 1 min (100
uF).

> 2) Keep memory in suspend while swapping battery. 10-20 seconds at 8 mA.

Hmm, for future study.

>    I don't think we've had problems with undefined state on power up. If we
> manage to power up at all, we can (and do) load our own settings anyway.

Yes, I think we dodged this bullet so far. It's more an analysis
problem: for each power-up problem that pops up, you have to include
the possibility that the PMU _may_ have been in an odd state. Things
would be much simpler if one could exclude that possibility.

- Werner

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Rene Harder

Re: ecn progress

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Álvaro Lopes wrote:
> We still have a caps with unknown value there.
>
> I had not the time to compute its proper value (and alas I don't even know if I can do that :P). Maybe someone can help here.
>  

This heavily depends on the GPS antenna and their impedance. If no
information is provided I usually assume that the impedance is 50Ohm
(purely resistive).

So If I'm not mistaken, you would need an inductor to compensate the
capacitive reactance of C7602 and match 50 Ohm input impedance (@
~1.5GHz). However we need C7601to remove the bias voltage from the input
of our GPS amplifier. One possible option to keep the capacitor would be
to add another inductor in parallel to C7602. This will compensate the
effects of C7601 and the result will be a 50Ohm impedance match.


Rene




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Werner Almesberger

Re: ecn progress

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Rene Harder wrote:
> One possible option to keep the capacitor would be
> to add another inductor in parallel to C7602. This will compensate the
> effects of C7601 and the result will be a 50Ohm impedance match.

We discussed possible values on IRC. Rene suggested 3.6 pF for the
capacitor and 9.4 nH for the inductor. The closest value I found in
a 0402 package at Digi-Key has 9.5 nH, but that would be
single-source.

Things look better at 9.1 nH +/- 5%, where we can choose from three
companies. Self-resonant frequencies of the possible choices are all
at 2.5 GHz or higher. We want something like 4 GHz. (Note: we should
record this non-trivial design parameter in ECN and/or schematics.)

The cheapest choice would be Taiyo Yuden's HK10059N1J-T, with a
self-resonant frequency of 3.4 GHz:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=587-1518-1-ND

There are plenty of choices for 3.6 pF 0402 C0G/C0H capacitors. E.g.,
the Murata GJM1555C1H3R6CB01D:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=490-1271-1-ND

More details about Murata's capacitors can be found here:
http://www.murata.com/products/catalog/pdf/c02e.pdf

- Werner

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