Your open source career

59 messages Options
Embed this post
Permalink
1 2 3
Terry Stigers

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)
I agree that the largest problem with OS GIS is a lack of the ability to produce a quality paper map.  The usual response to this is to suggest using some form of imaging software (Inkscape or GIMP for OS, Photoshop for commercial).  This is a fine idea if what you want to produce is a pretty picture.  If you want to actually produce a map, however, nothing I've been able to find in OS even comes close to matching proprietary software.  I've found that OS GIS is great for the nuts-and-bolts of GIS (which is what we do), but it's woefully lacking in decent cartography (which is how we use what we do to inform NON map geeks).  This is where OS really falls short.  If we're not able to adequately translate what we do into a form that the average person can understand, then we're just talking to ourselves.
Helena Mitasova

FAQ update needed?

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Randy George
I looked at the "Projects joining the foundation" part of FAQ but it  
looks like FAQ answers need an update?
Also, have all projects listed as OSGeo projects on the OSGeo web  
site passed incubation ?
I am working on a presentation for a USGS workshop and I am trying to  
make sure I provide information that is up to date and accurate and I  
am not sure how safe it is to use the info on the web site,

thanks,

Helena
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Markus Neteler

Re: FAQ update needed?

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 2:22 AM, Helena Mitasova <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I looked at the "Projects joining the foundation" part of FAQ but it looks
> like FAQ answers need an update?
>  Also, have all projects listed as OSGeo projects on the OSGeo web site
> passed incubation ?

No.
I have added (as discussed months ago) indication to the list of OSGeo
projects - a star for those yet in incubation, see right block:
http://www.osgeo.org

(changed in https://www.osgeo.org/admin/build/block/configure/block/3
 based on http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Incubation_Committee)

>  I am working on a presentation for a USGS workshop and I am trying to make
> sure I provide information that is up to date and accurate and I am not sure
> how safe it is to use the info on the web site,

Now it should be safe.

Markus
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
ChrisWebster

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)
Fascinating discussion - and quite encouraging to someone like me who is just moving into GIS and hoping to make good use of OS GIS tools in future.

As a newbie to all of this technology, I'd go along with the general feeling that ESRI ArcMap is easier to get started with as an end user, and often far more sophisticated, than what I've seen of most OS GIS clients.  But for that kind of money, I'd expect something pretty good.  And proprietary systems are not always that great e.g. MapInfo seems to have better DB integration than Arc*, but its cartography tools are nowhere near as good, at least as far as I can tell.  And my ArcDesktop client still falls over all the time, especially when I run it on Vista.

From what I've seen on the server side, OS can give ESRI a run for its money, although integration still requires some work.  But I don't see any real reason why I would want to use e.g. ArcSDE + SQLServer, for example, when I could use PostGIS and things like MapServer or GeoServer or Safe FME to help de-couple the database from my client software.  Provided my client can talk to non-ESRI interfaces and I'm not already locked into Arc*, of course.  And this old software lock-in approach still seems to dominate the world of ESRI, while much of the outside world is moving to de-coupled 3 tier apps.

I guess I'd still want to be able to use big GIS clients like ArcMap for some work, but I'm not sure every GIS application really needs this kind of expensive artillery.  Sometimes a nifty little web map will tell the customer all they need to know.

The biggest problem with OS - nobody seems to have mentioned it yet - is the lack of user-friendly or coherent documentation, even for mature tools like GRASS (yes, I know there's a GRASS book, but getting hold of it is like one of the more arduous treks in Lord Of The Rings...).  The forums are a great source of expert help (thanks, guys!), and there are lots of tutorials scattered around the web, but sometimes it's a real relief for this newbie to relax into the warm bath of an ESRI Virtual Campus training course or even an old-fashioned paper manual (they're called "books" for you younger people out there).  

But what do I know?  I'm only just starting my Open Source Career ;-))

Chris
Landon Blake

RE: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
Chris,

You wrote: " But what do I know?  I'm only just starting my Open Source
Career ;-))"

The opinions of individuals like you that are just migrating to open
source are very valuable.

The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source
projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us
like to write! It is something that needs to be addressed, although I am
unsure of the solution. Maybe we need to invent an IDE for user
documentation. :]

Landon

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of ChrisWebster
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:13 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career


Fascinating discussion - and quite encouraging to someone like me who is
just
moving into GIS and hoping to make good use of OS GIS tools in future.

As a newbie to all of this technology, I'd go along with the general
feeling
that ESRI ArcMap is easier to get started with as an end user, and often
far
more sophisticated, than what I've seen of most OS GIS clients.  But for
that kind of money, I'd expect something pretty good.  And proprietary
systems are not always that great e.g. MapInfo seems to have better DB
integration than Arc*, but its cartography tools are nowhere near as
good,
at least as far as I can tell.  And my ArcDesktop client still falls
over
all the time, especially when I run it on Vista.

>From what I've seen on the server side, OS can give ESRI a run for its
money, although integration still requires some work.  But I don't see
any
real reason why I would want to use e.g. ArcSDE + SQLServer, for
example,
when I could use PostGIS and things like MapServer or GeoServer or Safe
FME
to help de-couple the database from my client software.  Provided my
client
can talk to non-ESRI interfaces and I'm not already locked into Arc*, of
course.  And this old software lock-in approach still seems to dominate
the
world of ESRI, while much of the outside world is moving to de-coupled 3
tier apps.

I guess I'd still want to be able to use big GIS clients like ArcMap for
some work, but I'm not sure every GIS application really needs this kind
of
expensive artillery.  Sometimes a nifty little web map will tell the
customer all they need to know.

The biggest problem with OS - nobody seems to have mentioned it yet - is
the
lack of user-friendly or coherent documentation, even for mature tools
like
GRASS (yes, I know there's a GRASS book, but getting hold of it is like
one
of the more arduous treks in Lord Of The Rings...).  The forums are a
great
source of expert help (thanks, guys!), and there are lots of tutorials
scattered around the web, but sometimes it's a real relief for this
newbie
to relax into the warm bath of an ESRI Virtual Campus training course or
even an old-fashioned paper manual (they're called "books" for you
younger
people out there).  

But what do I know?  I'm only just starting my Open Source Career ;-))

Chris

--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Your-open-source-career-tp16883152p17059421.html
Sent from the OSGeo Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Warning:
Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately.
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Bruno Lowagie

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
Landon Blake wrote:
> The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source
> projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us
> like to write!

Speak for yourself! ;-) Am I the exception to the rule? *LOL*

Please don't regard the following as shameless promo. I just want
to share a very interesting experience with future F/OSS writers.

I'm an Open Source developer ( http://www.lowagie.com/iText/ )
but I also like to write. In 2004, I took some time off from
my day job to write a free online tutorial for iText because
the lack of proper documentation was a problem that had to be
addressed (you're right about that, Landon).

Once the first pages of the free tutorial were online, I immediately
received an offer to write a book about iText, first from O'Reilly,
later on also from Manning. After long consideration, I decided to
try writing a book for Manning Publications Co. because they have
the reputation that they are very demanding.

You may think I'm a masochist, but I thought that would be the
best guarantee to write a good book. And it was! I talked with
some authors who claimed that writing their first book for
Manning was a good choice. In hindsight, I agree, although I
might choose for O'Reilly next time ;-)

I spent 3 months writing the book proposal (full TOC included).
6 months writing the manuscript. After these 9 months of hard
labor, another 9 months were needed to get the book ready for
production (copy editing, proof reading, making the index,...).

The result is: http://www.1t3xt.com/docs/book.php

Want to know how much I earned? No problem! Have a look at
my Quarterly overviews here:
http://www.lowagie.com/maand.php?year=2008&month=4#806
The revenue listed is limited to the Royalties. You don't
get rich from writing a book, but I also have indirect revenue
from sales (when people buy the book after clicking a link on
my site). I get 10% Royalties and if you study the Quarterly
Overviews, you'll see that the sum I get for each book varies
depending on many factors (time, location,...).
I get between 5% (Amazon) and 15% (Manning) for selling the
book using a link on my site.

But it's not only about the money: the product has gotten
much more attention and it has really boomed! Having a book
is (almost) a guarantee for success for every F/OSS project.

If you are planning to write a book, and you want an introduction
at Manning Publications; or if you just want to talk about starting
such a venture, let me know, and we'll chat.

I know plenty of people who dream of writing a book, how I would
like to persuade them that they should just start writing.
I like to quote Henry David Thoreau: "If you have built castles in
the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be.
Now put the foundations under them."

best regards (and please pardon my enthousiasm),
Bruno Lowagie
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Landon Blake

RE: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
Bruno,

You are the exception!

I am familiar with your book, as I bought a copy about 4 months back.
iText is a great open source library! Please accept my commendation of
your work.

Having said that, I don't know that there are many of us that would have
time to write a book on our favorite FOSS program. This is a great task
that you have accomplished!

Landon

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruno Lowagie
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:04 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career

Landon Blake wrote:
> The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source
> projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us
> like to write!

Speak for yourself! ;-) Am I the exception to the rule? *LOL*

Please don't regard the following as shameless promo. I just want
to share a very interesting experience with future F/OSS writers.

I'm an Open Source developer ( http://www.lowagie.com/iText/ )
but I also like to write. In 2004, I took some time off from
my day job to write a free online tutorial for iText because
the lack of proper documentation was a problem that had to be
addressed (you're right about that, Landon).

Once the first pages of the free tutorial were online, I immediately
received an offer to write a book about iText, first from O'Reilly,
later on also from Manning. After long consideration, I decided to
try writing a book for Manning Publications Co. because they have
the reputation that they are very demanding.

You may think I'm a masochist, but I thought that would be the
best guarantee to write a good book. And it was! I talked with
some authors who claimed that writing their first book for
Manning was a good choice. In hindsight, I agree, although I
might choose for O'Reilly next time ;-)

I spent 3 months writing the book proposal (full TOC included).
6 months writing the manuscript. After these 9 months of hard
labor, another 9 months were needed to get the book ready for
production (copy editing, proof reading, making the index,...).

The result is: http://www.1t3xt.com/docs/book.php

Want to know how much I earned? No problem! Have a look at
my Quarterly overviews here:
http://www.lowagie.com/maand.php?year=2008&month=4#806
The revenue listed is limited to the Royalties. You don't
get rich from writing a book, but I also have indirect revenue
from sales (when people buy the book after clicking a link on
my site). I get 10% Royalties and if you study the Quarterly
Overviews, you'll see that the sum I get for each book varies
depending on many factors (time, location,...).
I get between 5% (Amazon) and 15% (Manning) for selling the
book using a link on my site.

But it's not only about the money: the product has gotten
much more attention and it has really boomed! Having a book
is (almost) a guarantee for success for every F/OSS project.

If you are planning to write a book, and you want an introduction
at Manning Publications; or if you just want to talk about starting
such a venture, let me know, and we'll chat.

I know plenty of people who dream of writing a book, how I would
like to persuade them that they should just start writing.
I like to quote Henry David Thoreau: "If you have built castles in
the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be.
Now put the foundations under them."

best regards (and please pardon my enthousiasm),
Bruno Lowagie
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Warning:
Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately.
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Jacolin Yves

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
Hi,

Don't forget that some people are not developers but are ready to write
documentation (in my native langage for me ;) ).

Open Source is not only for developers, but for everyone who want to share his
works (software, documentation, ideas, etc.).

[my life]That's why I am working on OSGeo-fr, translating news about soft
release, translating documentation (GDAL-Og, ImageMagick) into French,
writing documentation about OpenLayers or OGC standards, etc. [/my life]

And I am not alone :) They/we just don't talk so much on mailing list (it's
bad I know :D ).

Best regards,

Y.
Le Monday 05 May 2008 17:13:01 Landon Blake, vous avez écrit :

> Bruno,
>
> You are the exception!
>
> I am familiar with your book, as I bought a copy about 4 months back.
> iText is a great open source library! Please accept my commendation of
> your work.
>
> Having said that, I don't know that there are many of us that would have
> time to write a book on our favorite FOSS program. This is a great task
> that you have accomplished!
>
> Landon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruno Lowagie
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:04 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
>
> Landon Blake wrote:
> > The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source
> > projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us
> > like to write!
>
> Speak for yourself! ;-) Am I the exception to the rule? *LOL*
>
> Please don't regard the following as shameless promo. I just want
> to share a very interesting experience with future F/OSS writers.
>
> I'm an Open Source developer ( http://www.lowagie.com/iText/ )
> but I also like to write. In 2004, I took some time off from
> my day job to write a free online tutorial for iText because
> the lack of proper documentation was a problem that had to be
> addressed (you're right about that, Landon).
>
> Once the first pages of the free tutorial were online, I immediately
> received an offer to write a book about iText, first from O'Reilly,
> later on also from Manning. After long consideration, I decided to
> try writing a book for Manning Publications Co. because they have
> the reputation that they are very demanding.
>
> You may think I'm a masochist, but I thought that would be the
> best guarantee to write a good book. And it was! I talked with
> some authors who claimed that writing their first book for
> Manning was a good choice. In hindsight, I agree, although I
> might choose for O'Reilly next time ;-)
>
> I spent 3 months writing the book proposal (full TOC included).
> 6 months writing the manuscript. After these 9 months of hard
> labor, another 9 months were needed to get the book ready for
> production (copy editing, proof reading, making the index,...).
>
> The result is: http://www.1t3xt.com/docs/book.php
>
> Want to know how much I earned? No problem! Have a look at
> my Quarterly overviews here:
> http://www.lowagie.com/maand.php?year=2008&month=4#806
> The revenue listed is limited to the Royalties. You don't
> get rich from writing a book, but I also have indirect revenue
> from sales (when people buy the book after clicking a link on
> my site). I get 10% Royalties and if you study the Quarterly
> Overviews, you'll see that the sum I get for each book varies
> depending on many factors (time, location,...).
> I get between 5% (Amazon) and 15% (Manning) for selling the
> book using a link on my site.
>
> But it's not only about the money: the product has gotten
> much more attention and it has really boomed! Having a book
> is (almost) a guarantee for success for every F/OSS project.
>
> If you are planning to write a book, and you want an introduction
> at Manning Publications; or if you just want to talk about starting
> such a venture, let me know, and we'll chat.
>
> I know plenty of people who dream of writing a book, how I would
> like to persuade them that they should just start writing.
> I like to quote Henry David Thoreau: "If you have built castles in
> the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be.
> Now put the foundations under them."
>
> best regards (and please pardon my enthousiasm),
> Bruno Lowagie
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
> Warning:
> Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects
> including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
> you have received this information in error, please notify the sender
> immediately. _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



--
Yves Jacolin
---
http://softlibre.gloobe.org
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Bruno Lowagie

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Landon Blake
Landon Blake wrote:
> Bruno,
>
> You are the exception!
>
> I am familiar with your book, as I bought a copy about 4 months back.
> iText is a great open source library! Please accept my commendation of
> your work.

What I didn't say is that I've started teaching iText,
and while doing so, I have plenty of new ideas for writing
an even better book (some of the examples in the book are
too academic), but you are right: writing a book takes
a lot of time.

> Having said that, I don't know that there are many of us that would have
> time to write a book on our favorite FOSS program. This is a great task
> that you have accomplished!

By the way: I'm currently adding some new functionality to iText,
but once I'm done with my TODO list, I'll be looking towards the
GIS market. More specifically: I've been contacted by Dirk Frigne
(geGIS / MAJAS) to solve the "plot/print" problem in the GIS world.

That's why I was lurking on this list. To be continued...
Bruno
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Miles Fidelman

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Landon Blake
Landon Blake wrote:
> The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source
> projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us
> like to write! It is something that needs to be addressed, although I am
> unsure of the solution. Maybe we need to invent an IDE for user
> documentation. :]
>  
It sort of depends.  One of the few ways open source developers get PAID
for their work (unless their day job pays for their open source
endeavors) is to write books about their software.  Hence the plethora
of books about Apache, various Linux and BSD varieties, and so forth -
written by the major developers thereof.

What, you expect high quality software, with high quality documentation,
and support - with nobody getting paid anywhere along the line?

--
Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs
Traverse Technologies
145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor
Boston, MA  02111
[hidden email]
617-395-8254
www.traversetechnologies.com

_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Landon Blake

RE: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Jacolin Yves
I shouldn't have painted with such a broad brush. We actually have a great bunch of translators for OpenJUMP, and one user that does nothing but work on documentation. (English is actually a second language for this user.)

I meant to speak in a more general sense. I agree with the earlier poster, who mentioned that documentation for FOSS GIS is not always as pervasive as it is for the ESRI stuff. I think this was an accurate observation.

Landon

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jacolin Yves
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:25 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career

Hi,

Don't forget that some people are not developers but are ready to write
documentation (in my native langage for me ;) ).

Open Source is not only for developers, but for everyone who want to share his
works (software, documentation, ideas, etc.).

[my life]That's why I am working on OSGeo-fr, translating news about soft
release, translating documentation (GDAL-Og, ImageMagick) into French,
writing documentation about OpenLayers or OGC standards, etc. [/my life]

And I am not alone :) They/we just don't talk so much on mailing list (it's
bad I know :D ).

Best regards,

Y.
Le Monday 05 May 2008 17:13:01 Landon Blake, vous avez écrit :

> Bruno,
>
> You are the exception!
>
> I am familiar with your book, as I bought a copy about 4 months back.
> iText is a great open source library! Please accept my commendation of
> your work.
>
> Having said that, I don't know that there are many of us that would have
> time to write a book on our favorite FOSS program. This is a great task
> that you have accomplished!
>
> Landon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruno Lowagie
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:04 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
>
> Landon Blake wrote:
> > The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source
> > projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us
> > like to write!
>
> Speak for yourself! ;-) Am I the exception to the rule? *LOL*
>
> Please don't regard the following as shameless promo. I just want
> to share a very interesting experience with future F/OSS writers.
>
> I'm an Open Source developer ( http://www.lowagie.com/iText/ )
> but I also like to write. In 2004, I took some time off from
> my day job to write a free online tutorial for iText because
> the lack of proper documentation was a problem that had to be
> addressed (you're right about that, Landon).
>
> Once the first pages of the free tutorial were online, I immediately
> received an offer to write a book about iText, first from O'Reilly,
> later on also from Manning. After long consideration, I decided to
> try writing a book for Manning Publications Co. because they have
> the reputation that they are very demanding.
>
> You may think I'm a masochist, but I thought that would be the
> best guarantee to write a good book. And it was! I talked with
> some authors who claimed that writing their first book for
> Manning was a good choice. In hindsight, I agree, although I
> might choose for O'Reilly next time ;-)
>
> I spent 3 months writing the book proposal (full TOC included).
> 6 months writing the manuscript. After these 9 months of hard
> labor, another 9 months were needed to get the book ready for
> production (copy editing, proof reading, making the index,...).
>
> The result is: http://www.1t3xt.com/docs/book.php
>
> Want to know how much I earned? No problem! Have a look at
> my Quarterly overviews here:
> http://www.lowagie.com/maand.php?year=2008&month=4#806
> The revenue listed is limited to the Royalties. You don't
> get rich from writing a book, but I also have indirect revenue
> from sales (when people buy the book after clicking a link on
> my site). I get 10% Royalties and if you study the Quarterly
> Overviews, you'll see that the sum I get for each book varies
> depending on many factors (time, location,...).
> I get between 5% (Amazon) and 15% (Manning) for selling the
> book using a link on my site.
>
> But it's not only about the money: the product has gotten
> much more attention and it has really boomed! Having a book
> is (almost) a guarantee for success for every F/OSS project.
>
> If you are planning to write a book, and you want an introduction
> at Manning Publications; or if you just want to talk about starting
> such a venture, let me know, and we'll chat.
>
> I know plenty of people who dream of writing a book, how I would
> like to persuade them that they should just start writing.
> I like to quote Henry David Thoreau: "If you have built castles in
> the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be.
> Now put the foundations under them."
>
> best regards (and please pardon my enthousiasm),
> Bruno Lowagie
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
> Warning:
> Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects
> including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
> you have received this information in error, please notify the sender
> immediately. _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



--
Yves Jacolin
---
http://softlibre.gloobe.org
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Warning:
Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately.
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Landon Blake

RE: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Bruno Lowagie
Bruno wrote: " More specifically: I've been contacted by Dirk Frigne
(geGIS / MAJAS) to solve the "plot/print" problem in the GIS world."

That is very exciting! Please keep me posted.

Landon

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruno Lowagie
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:28 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career

Landon Blake wrote:
> Bruno,
>
> You are the exception!
>
> I am familiar with your book, as I bought a copy about 4 months back.
> iText is a great open source library! Please accept my commendation of
> your work.

What I didn't say is that I've started teaching iText,
and while doing so, I have plenty of new ideas for writing
an even better book (some of the examples in the book are
too academic), but you are right: writing a book takes
a lot of time.

> Having said that, I don't know that there are many of us that would
have
> time to write a book on our favorite FOSS program. This is a great
task
> that you have accomplished!

By the way: I'm currently adding some new functionality to iText,
but once I'm done with my TODO list, I'll be looking towards the
GIS market. More specifically: I've been contacted by Dirk Frigne
(geGIS / MAJAS) to solve the "plot/print" problem in the GIS world.

That's why I was lurking on this list. To be continued...
Bruno
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


Warning:
Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately.
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Markus Neteler

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by ChrisWebster
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM, ChrisWebster <[hidden email]> wrote:
...
>  The biggest problem with OS - nobody seems to have mentioned it yet - is the
>  lack of user-friendly or coherent documentation, even for mature tools like
>  GRASS (yes, I know there's a GRASS book, but getting hold of it is like one
>  of the more arduous treks in Lord Of The Rings...).

Just as hint (with links to Amazon, Barnes&Noble, whatever):
http://www.grassbook.org/

It was reprinted in April, so it should be available.

In general I think that OSGeo should promote better their authors, we have
this hidden Wiki template in the Library:
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Library#GFOSS_Books

This should be prominently advertised on the mail site as
"OSGeo Bookshelf".

Markus
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Bruno Lowagie

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Jacolin Yves
Jacolin Yves wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Don't forget that some people are not developers but are ready to write
> documentation (in my native langage for me ;) ).

True, and if you /are/ a developer, all the other people in the
writing process (developmental editor, copy editor, proof reader,
and many more) aren't. Being a developer is somehow a disadvantage
because you are forced to change your mindset: you must learn to
think as a reader/user instead of as a developer.
br,
Bruno
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
ChrisWebster

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Markus Neteler
Thanks, Markus.

By the way, for anybody else looking of a fairly painless intro to FOSS GIS, I can heartily recommend Scott Davis's book "GIS for web developers".  It's aimed mainly at web mapping rather than heavy duty GIS, but it will get you started with PostGIS, GeoServer, GDAL, uDig, QGIS and several other bits and pieces.  Well, it worked for me...

Cheers,

Chris

Markus Neteler OSGeo wrote:
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM, ChrisWebster <cwebster@tyadar.co.uk> wrote:
...
>  The biggest problem with OS - nobody seems to have mentioned it yet - is the
>  lack of user-friendly or coherent documentation, even for mature tools like
>  GRASS (yes, I know there's a GRASS book, but getting hold of it is like one
>  of the more arduous treks in Lord Of The Rings...).

Just as hint (with links to Amazon, Barnes&Noble, whatever):
http://www.grassbook.org/

It was reprinted in April, so it should be available.

In general I think that OSGeo should promote better their authors, we have
this hidden Wiki template in the Library:
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Library#GFOSS_Books

This should be prominently advertised on the mail site as
"OSGeo Bookshelf".

Markus
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Dave Braig

Re: Your open source career

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)
Hi Tyler -

Interesting question and one that we have been working through with some of our recent projects. Our development team grew up out of the desktop environment and as such relied heavily on traditional, proprietary GIS solutions.  As we moved to more web-based solutions this technology became more of a challenge to implement.  The frustration led us to the OS community.  We found that an experienced developer could contribute faster on the OS platform.  The structures and interfaces within the OS components fell more in line with standard programming etiquette without all of the little nuances that make GIS application development so interesting.  The OS components also allowed us easily integrate with multiple technologies and other OS/COTS components within the portal framework we are developing against.  The biggest drawback reflects a common theme across this thread - documentation.  Much time was spent looking through blogs, posts, and threads to find the right combination of parameter settings to take posted samples and turn them into functioning solutions.  All in all our OS experience has been positive and has added another technology to our bag of tricks.

Dave


Tyler Mitchell wrote:
Hi everyone,
We've probably all heard of the typical business models for open  
source companies, but I'm working on a few slides for a presentation  
that highlight the benefit of open source for employees - and would  
love to hear from some of you.

I have some personal examples where open source made me a more  
valuable employee, and how other colleagues who were into open source  
were considered invaluable.  I also believe the many employers who  
value open source are able to attract talented staff that  
"traditional" or "proprietary" employers cannot.

Do you have a story about how embracing open source geospatial  
applications helped broaden the opportunities for your future or  
helped you bust out of a mundane box?  Maybe you learned on your own  
time and brought your new skills into the office?  I'm particularly  
interested in your personal stories about how open source may have  
motivated you to grow, learn and extend your career or professional  
set of tools.

Anyone want to share?

Best wishes,
Tyler
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Dirk Frigne

RE: Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
In reply to this post by Christopher Schmidt
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: [hidden email] [mailto:discuss-
> [hidden email]] Namens Christopher Schmidt
> Verzonden: vrijdag 25 april 2008 20:52
> Aan: OSGeo Discussions
> Onderwerp: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as
> with ESRI)?
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote:
> > What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some
> strange
> > reason all that I do starts with an http://...
>
> A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser
> makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and
> using
> the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks.


Hey Christopher,

I understand your answer, but instead of switching to the desktop GIS only,
you should decide to switch to the server in some circumstances for
accomplishing some tasks...

The decision is based in m.h.o. on the level of control that is needed for
these complex tasks. If they are to be controlled by the user (you decide
the sequences and algoritmes) then a desktop GIS makes sense. If you want to
provide pre-calcualted complex tasks and use cases, the server side approach
makes more sense.

I am working on a Browser based 'desktop' GIS application framework. For all
sort of applications in the latter case, the browser/server based
architecture has advantages above the GIS desktop solution.


sincerly,
Dirk Frigne
http://www.gegis.org
http://www.frigne.be
http://majas.dfc.be


_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
sincerly,
Dirk Frigne
DFC Software Engineering
Christopher Schmidt

Re: Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
On Tue, May 06, 2008 at 11:00:54PM +0200, Dirk Frigne wrote:

> > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote:
> > > What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some
> > strange
> > > reason all that I do starts with an http://...
> >
> > A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser
> > makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and
> > using
> > the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks.
>
> I understand your answer, but instead of switching to the desktop GIS only,
> you should decide to switch to the server in some circumstances for
> accomplishing some tasks...

My response to Arnulf was tongue in cheek: sorry that didn't come across
well.

Regards,
--
Christopher Schmidt
Web Developer
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
P Kishor

Re: Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?

Reply Threaded More More options
Print post
Permalink
On 5/6/08, Christopher Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, May 06, 2008 at 11:00:54PM +0200, Dirk Frigne wrote:
>  > > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote:
>  > > > What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some
>  > > strange
>  > > > reason all that I do starts with an http://...
>  > >
>  > > A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser
>  > > makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and
>  > > using
>  > > the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks.
>  >
>
> > I understand your answer, but instead of switching to the desktop GIS only,
>  > you should decide to switch to the server in some circumstances for
>  > accomplishing some tasks...
>
>
> My response to Arnulf was tongue in cheek: sorry that didn't come across
>  well.
>
>


Actually, I thought it was a very well put response. It came off very well.

Recognizing the boundaries of the capabilities of desktop vs. the
browser is perhaps the first step toward making a sane application. A
few capabilities port over from one to the other. The ones that don't
and yet are force-fitted into the wrong environment make for a very
sucky experience.

--
Puneet Kishor
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
1 2 3