Your open source career

[Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)]

I agree with some of the other responses that challenge the way of  
traditional thinking.  Desktop GIS, Web and Databases are the tools  
of today - it's interesting to watch the various ways they come  
together (collide?) in projects.  If you look to replace desktop  
proprietary options, you may find that web-based tools start to fit  
the bill.  Or to do analysis you may find the database tools open up  
more possibilities, etc..

Personally I find it a great challenge to keep up with various  
developments in the OS field.  Even within OSGeo projects there is so  
much happening that it is hard to know which hurdles have been  
overcome or not.  For example, projects like GRASS, QGIS, gvSIG all  
have goals to improve various components and their improvements are  
at various stages.

Some, like gvSIG, have specific goals to fill the exact needs you  
have.  QGIS + GRASS makes a powerful combination, though I can't  
speak to its usability.  gvSIG + SEXTANTE makes similar strides in  
power.  Then there are the service-based opportunities using WPS via  
PyWPS, deegree, 52 North, etc.

I've got no hard answer because I feel the goal posts are constantly  
moving, and the others have touched on more specifics.

Hope that general answers helps somewhat.

Tyler

On 24-Apr-08, at 12:41 PM, Jennifer Horsman wrote:

> The thread that was started today with the subject "Your open  
> source career" got me thinking about asking a question that has  
> been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who  
> have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products.
>
> I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start  
> my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license  
> for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS  
> installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS  
> (it has probably changed since then too!)
>
> Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as  
> ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another  
> question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it  
> excel in comparison to the ESRI products?
>
> Thanks,
> Jennifer
>

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[Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)]

andrea antonello wrote:

>>> Among the things that QGIS (and other open source desktops) can't do
>>> are a table join, a spatial join
>>>
>>  I'm not sure what you mean with spatial join, but if you mean overlay, and
>> raster combination GRASS can do, and it can also do table joins, while it
>> overlays two vector layers.
>>
>>
>>
>>> In response to the query "can I replace ArcView with
>>> open source", my answer is "in general, no, but maybe for a specific
>>> use case".
>>>
>>  I'd say: "In general yes (In some respects GRASS is superior to Arc in
>> analysis), but some things can be harder / more complicated or not
>> possible". GRASS is a perfectly capable desktop GIS package with over 200
>> modules.
>
> I agree with Paul, power without control doesn't lead anywhere. GRASS
> is of huge power, but following my past commercial experiences, I

Hehe, didn't you just say "my past proprietary experiences"?

Sorry to be dense and all that...

:-)

PS:
What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://...

> would say "in general no, because most times they don't want the
> overhead of GRASS for exactly those things they need".
>
> Andrea
>
>
>
>
>>  --Wolf
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  <:3 )---- Wolf Bergenheim ----( 8:>
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Discuss mailing list
>>  [hidden email]
>>  http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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[Christopher Schmidt]

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote:
> What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange
> reason all that I do starts with an http://...

A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser
makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and using
the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks.

The browser is great for a lot of things. There are also many things it
is not great for. Knowing the difference is an important step to being
successful in creating a solution that works well to meet the needs of
the problem.

Regards,
--
Christopher Schmidt
Web Developer
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[Markus Neteler]

This is why I proposed
 http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Cartographic_Library

:)

Markus

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:30 PM, David William Bitner
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would agree with Paul.  The biggest hole in the FOSS stack is in easy,
> high quality printed map production.  This is the one task where the Arc
> tools beat anything I have seen in FOSS GIS hands down.
>
> David
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[Markus Neteler]

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva
<[hidden email]> wrote:
...
>  One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss
> them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S.
> software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc -
> btw, if you do, let me know).
>
>  FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options.

We are working on that:
 http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer

Screenshots:
 http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php
 -> wxPython (new GUI)

You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday):
 http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html

Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with *installer* at
 http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x

Enjoy
Markus
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[Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)]

On Fri, April 25, 2008 20:51, Christopher Schmidt wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote:
>
>> What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some
>> strange reason all that I do starts with an http://...
>
> A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser
> makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and using
> the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks.

This makes for a good redefinition of Desktop GIS. Pity my HD is too
flimsy to carry all those PB of data.

> The browser is great for a lot of things. There are also many things it
> is not great for. Knowing the difference is an important step to being
> successful in creating a solution that works well to meet the needs of the
> problem.

Think Programmable Web and Basement GIS.

> Regards,
> --
> Christopher Schmidt
> Web Developer

Regards,
--
Arnulf Christl
Legacy GIS Architect

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[P Kishor]

On 4/25/08, Arnulf Christl <[hidden email]> wrote:
..

>  Legacy GIS Architect
>

In the world of neogeography punks, this is a nice throwback to the future.
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[Andrea Antonello]

> > I agree with Paul, power without control doesn't lead anywhere. GRASS
> > is of huge power, but following my past commercial experiences, I
> >
>
>  Hehe, didn't you just say "my past proprietary experiences"?
>
>  Sorry to be dense and all that...

No worries, but I really meant: "my past commercial experienses", i.e.
proprietary and not, but for sure commercial.
We are talking about bussiness, are we? Yes, I think we are :-)

>  PS:
>  What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange
> reason all that I do starts with an http://...

We are an example of bussiness that earn money without a http://, just
heavy environmental calculations. Don't know a thing about http.
Even if 98% is about web, not everything is :-)

Ciao
Andrea

>
>
>
>
> > would say "in general no, because most times they don't want the
> > overhead of GRASS for exactly those things they need".
> >
> > Andrea
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >  --Wolf
> > >
> > >  --
> > >
> > >  <:3 )---- Wolf Bergenheim ----( 8:>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  Discuss mailing list
> > >  [hidden email]
> > >  http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
>
>  _______________________________________________
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[ravivundavalli]

Hi,
this is the kind of question I face when in my lectures evangelising OS GIS.
ArcGIS has many tools, though some prefer to call it a deluge of tools, which almost distance the user from understanding the concept of GIS.

Auto Complete Polygon:
In Qgis which is a very userfriendly OS GIS you have 'Cut polygon', do try and find the difference.

Polygonising from lines:
Open JUMP has one of the most userfriendly approaches.
Create lines and polygonise in OpenJUMP and the software automatically
creates a folder for Dangles (un-wanted line pieces)

The query is more for Vector GIS, I suppose.

GRASS GIS:
It has so many features for Image analysis and Raster GIS, the commercial GIS need a barge pole to even touch it. The vector Part of GRASS is robust too.

Ravi Kumar


Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva
wrote:
...
> One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss
> them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S.
> software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc -
> btw, if you do, let me know).
>
> FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options.

We are working on that:
http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer

Screenshots:
http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php
-> wxPython (new GUI)

You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday):
http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html

Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with *installer* at
http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x

Enjoy
Markus
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[Cameron Shorter]

Ravi,
What us Open Source evangelists are missing is an honest comparison
between ESRI desktop applications and Open Source equivalents.

What is it about ArcView and ArcGIS that people really like, listed
feature by feature in a table.
Then identify whether Open Source covers it and how.
Very important is to address usability. How quickly can an Arc* user
migrate to Open Source?
My skill set is lacking here as I don't have much experience in either
ESRI or the Open Source desktop tools. It seems like you have experience
with both which puts you in a unique position.

Is this something you, or one of your students would like to investigate
further? Maybe build a table similar to this one:
http://www.spatialserver.net/osgis/Desktopgis_overview.htm

RAVI KUMAR wrote:

> Hi,
> this is the kind of question I face when in my lectures evangelising
> OS GIS.
> ArcGIS has many tools, though some prefer to call it a deluge of
> tools, which almost distance the user from understanding the concept
> of GIS.
>
> Auto Complete Polygon:
> In Qgis which is a very userfriendly OS GIS you have 'Cut polygon', do
> try and find the difference.
>
> Polygonising from lines:
> Open JUMP has one of the most userfriendly approaches.
> Create lines and polygonise in OpenJUMP and the software automatically
> creates a folder for Dangles (un-wanted line pieces)
>
> The query is more for Vector GIS, I suppose.
>
> GRASS GIS:
> It has so many features for Image analysis and Raster GIS, the
> commercial GIS need a barge pole to even touch it. The vector Part of
> GRASS is robust too.
>
> Ravi Kumar
>
>
> */Markus Neteler <[hidden email]>/* wrote:
>
>     On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva
>     wrote:
>     ...
>     > One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I
>     do miss
>     > them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any
>     O.S.
>     > software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping
>     options, etc -
>     > btw, if you do, let me know).
>     >
>     > FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options.
>
>     We are working on that:
>     http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer
>
>     Screenshots:
>     http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php
>     -> wxPython (new GUI)
>
>     You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday):
>     http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html
>
>     Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with
>     *installer* at
>     http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x
>
>     Enjoy
>     Markus
>     _______________________________________________
>     Discuss mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
> it now.
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>  

--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Systems Architect
Tel: [phone]
Mob: [phone]

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Commercial Support for Geospatial Open Source Solutions
http://www.lisasoft.com/LISAsoft/SupportedProducts.html

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[Wolf Bergenheim]

On 26.04.2008 08:44, Cameron Shorter wrote:
> Ravi,
> What us Open Source evangelists are missing is an honest comparison
> between ESRI desktop applications and Open Source equivalents.
>

This has been done somewhat. You might find it interesting reading.

--Wolf

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [GRASS-user] [Fwd: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS
Tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?]
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:13:49 +0200
From: Markus Metz
To: [hidden email]

Todd Buchanan compared GRASS and ArcGIS in his master thesis (Geoscience
/ GIS):

Title: Thesis – Comparison of ArcGIS 9.0 and GRASS 6.0: Case Study and
Implementation.
·       Detailed costs and benefits of each GIS and included a
comparison of acquisition, installation, implementation, and utilization.
·     Involved Landsat image classification and analysis of urbanization
of Eugene, OR.

You can get the thesis here:
http://www.toddbuchanan.net/thesis_ver.pdf

The thesis used GRASS 6.0 and GRASS became even better since then:-) I
would not agree with TB's statement of technical support being virtually
non-existent, because you get answers quickly in the mailing lists.

I hope that helps,

Markus Metz

--

<:3 )---- Wolf Bergenheim ----( 8:>

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[ravivundavalli]

Hi Cameron,
the table of comparison is informative.
Most of the ARC-GIS users (my personal view) are Vector GIS users.
They are concerned of
1. Registration of Paper maps into GIS
2. Attribution
3. Analysis depending on their need.

CAD

4. Outputs of the above are also to be plotted in elegant maps with proper symbology and standard colors.

As an OSGeo enthusiast I recommend a cocktail of OS GIS software mix.


OpenJUMP and Qgis for steps Qgis 1 to 3
Qgis and GRASS for advanced analysis 
GRASS for statistical analysis with R

OpenJUMP and Inkscape for step 4. As a geologist I get oriented structures properly symbolised and rotated (possible in OpenJUMP)

Am making some notes and soon wish to offer for downloading through GRASS and OpenJUMP websites.

Ravi Kumar


Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ravi,
What us Open Source evangelists are missing is an honest comparison
between ESRI desktop applications and Open Source equivalents.

What is it about ArcView and ArcGIS that people really like, listed
feature by feature in a table.
Then identify whether Open Source covers it and how.
Very important is to address usability. How quickly can an Arc* user
migrate to Open Source?
My skill set is lacking here as I don't have much experience in either
ESRI or the Open Source desktop tools. It seems like you have experience
with both which puts you in a unique position.

Is this something you, or one of your students would like to investigate
further? Maybe build a table similar to this one:
http://www.spatialserver.net/osgis/Desktopgis_overview.htm

RAVI KUMAR wrote:

> Hi,
> this is the kind of question I face when in my lectures evangelising
> OS GIS.
> ArcGIS has many tools, though some prefer to call it a deluge of
> tools, which almost distance the user from understanding the concept
> of GIS.
>
> Auto Complete Polygon:
> In Qgis which is a very userfriendly OS GIS you have 'Cut polygon', do
> try and find the difference.
>
> Polygonising from lines:
> Open JUMP has one of the most userfriendly approaches.
> Create lines and polygonise in OpenJUMP and the software automatically
> creates a folder for Dangles (un-wanted line pieces)
>
> The query is more for Vector GIS, I suppose.
>
> GRASS GIS:
> It has so many features for Image analysis and Raster GIS, the
> commercial GIS need a barge pole to even touch it. The vector Part of
> GRASS is robust too.
>
> Ravi Kumar
>
>
> */Markus Neteler /* wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva
> wrote:
> ...
> > One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I
> do miss
> > them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any
> O.S.
> > software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping
> options, etc -
> > btw, if you do, let me know).
> >
> > FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options.
>
> We are working on that:
> http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer
>
> Screenshots:
> http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php
> -> wxPython (new GUI)
>
> You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday):
> http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html
>
> Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with
> *installer* at
> http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x
>
> Enjoy
> Markus
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
> it now.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Systems Architect
Tel: [phone]
Mob: [phone]

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Commercial Support for Geospatial Open Source Solutions
http://www.lisasoft.com/LISAsoft/SupportedProducts.html

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[Malte Halbey-Martin]

Hi,

IMHO the most barrier for people using OS GIS is the lack of a user
friendly interface, especially for map production and digitising. I know
that this has been stated before in this thread, but I want stress this
point out.

I'm working as as supporter and software trainer for a software company
and not few of our customers are paying much money for applications,
which simplifys/extend the common ArcGIS funcitonallity! Most people are
overstrained about the functionallity of GIS software. I think the users
of GIS have changed over the past decade. More common people have to
work with GIS (especially public servants). GIS has become a common
software tool so the users aren't only specialist as some years ago!
This "new" users just want to have a button and that's it. Don't ask
them to create a sql string for extracting some data out of a database.

So as already mentioned, OS GIS NEEDS as userfriendly Interface,
powerful digitizing and map production tools which are easy to use. When
these issues have been solved, we will see a strong rising spread of  OS
GIS software.

Just my opinion.
Malte
PS: I love OS Software, but I just want to see a rising distribution of it!


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[ravivundavalli]

Changing Goal Posts

This is more for the proprietory software, where they have to keep their heads above the water line. So CAD software try to become GIS and GIS software adds Image analysis and Image aanalysis software tries to add GIS features.

For Open Source GIS, all open source software is our playing field.
Grass GIS recommends Qgis for easier on screen digitisation. Grass goes with GMT for map generation. OpenJUMP recommends Inkscape for producing elegant hardcopy maps. Grass, Qgis OpenJUMP and scores of other Open GIS software use PostGIS for database and UMNS for Web Applications.

A mix of Open GIS and related software is the right solution.
for the user who asked, "Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?".
You can do more than that.

Ravi Kumar

Malte Halbey-Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

IMHO the most barrier for people using OS GIS is the lack of a user
friendly interface, especially for map production and digitising. I know
that this has been stated before in this thread, but I want stress this
point out.

I'm working as as supporter and software trainer for a software company
and not few of our customers are paying much money for applications,
which simplifys/extend the common ArcGIS funcitonallity! Most people are
overstrained about the functionallity of GIS software. I think the users
of GIS have changed over the past decade. More common people have to
work with GIS (especially public servants). GIS has become a common
software tool so the users aren't only specialist as some years ago!
This "new" users just want to have a button and that's it. Don't ask
them to create a sql string for extracting some data out of a database.

So as already mentioned, OS GIS NEEDS as userfriendly Interface,
powerful digitizing and map production tools which are easy to use. When
these issues have been solved, we will see a strong rising spread of OS
GIS software.

Just my opinion.
Malte
PS: I love OS Software, but I just want to see a rising distribution of it!


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[adiez]

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

gvSIG (Tyler already metioned it) is great to work with vectors. Actually, ESRI Spain don't like it because is to similar to arcGIS, in their words. I can't say, I haven't used ArcGIS, but gvSIG [1] + Sextante [2] is perfect tool to produce nice maps easily. The whole transport and infraestructure UNIT is using it. Take a look.

[1] http://gvsig.org

[2] http://www.sextantegis.com

El Apr 26, 2008, a las 9:01 AM, RAVI KUMAR escribió:

Hi Cameron,
the table of comparison is informative.
Most of the ARC-GIS users (my personal view) are Vector GIS users.
They are concerned of
1. Registration of Paper maps into GIS
2. Attribution
3. Analysis depending on their need.

CAD

4. Outputs of the above are also to be plotted in elegant maps with proper symbology and standard colors.

As an OSGeo enthusiast I recommend a cocktail of OS GIS software mix.


OpenJUMP and Qgis for steps Qgis 1 to 3
Qgis and GRASS for advanced analysis 
GRASS for statistical analysis with R

OpenJUMP and Inkscape for step 4. As a geologist I get oriented structures properly symbolised and rotated (possible in OpenJUMP)

Am making some notes and soon wish to offer for downloading through GRASS and OpenJUMP websites.

Ravi Kumar


Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ravi,
What us Open Source evangelists are missing is an honest comparison
between ESRI desktop applications and Open Source equivalents.

What is it about ArcView and ArcGIS that people really like, listed
feature by feature in a table.
Then identify whether Open Source covers it and how.
Very important is to address usability. How quickly can an Arc* user
migrate to Open Source?
My skill set is lacking here as I don't have much experience in either
ESRI or the Open Source desktop tools. It seems like you have experience
with both which puts you in a unique position.

Is this something you, or one of your students would like to investigate
further? Maybe build a table similar to this one:
http://www.spatialserver.net/osgis/Desktopgis_overview.htm

RAVI KUMAR wrote:
> Hi,
> this is the kind of question I face when in my lectures evangelising
> OS GIS.
> ArcGIS has many tools, though some prefer to call it a deluge of
> tools, which almost distance the user from understanding the concept
> of GIS.
>
> Auto Complete Polygon:
> In Qgis which is a very userfriendly OS GIS you have 'Cut polygon', do
> try and find the difference.
>
> Polygonising from lines:
> Open JUMP has one of the most userfriendly approaches.
> Create lines and polygonise in OpenJUMP and the software automatically
> creates a folder for Dangles (un-wanted line pieces)
>
> The query is more for Vector GIS, I suppose.
>
> GRASS GIS:
> It has so many features for Image analysis and Raster GIS, the
> commercial GIS need a barge pole to even touch it. The vector Part of
> GRASS is robust too.
>
> Ravi Kumar
>
>
> */Markus Neteler /* wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva
> wrote:
> ...
> > One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I
> do miss
> > them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any
> O.S.
> > software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping
> options, etc -
> > btw, if you do, let me know).
> >
> > FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options.
>
> We are working on that:
> http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer
>
> Screenshots:
> http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php
> -> wxPython (new GUI)
>
> You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday):
> http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html
>
> Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with
> *installer* at
> http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x
>
> Enjoy
> Markus
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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>
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>


--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Systems Architect
Tel: [phone]
Mob: [phone]

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Commercial Support for Geospatial Open Source Solutions
http://www.lisasoft.com/LISAsoft/SupportedProducts.html

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[Saka Royban]

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

ٍExcellent discussion.
I have been an ArcGIS user and now i am transferring to OS.
in my opinion, the best point of ArcGIS is that you everything in 1 package => simplifying tasks
about OS, at least i see no difference in Web-GIS domain. OS softwares like UMN mapserver and Mapguide OS sometimes work better.
in the field of Desktop GIS, although QGIS, GRASS,Sharpmap and other tools are available but in a diverse manner.
the main problem is that the most powerful OS sotfware (GRASS) in this area is under Linux not windows (=> developing desktop GIS tools sounds very difficult). As announced by GRASS dev group, this problem is gonna solve soon.

===> OS GIS support most of expected needs from GIS, but sometimes with consuming more time.

----- Original Message ----
From: Malte Halbey-Martin <[hidden email]>
To: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:56:26 AM
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?

Hi,

IMHO the most barrier for people using OS GIS is the lack of a user
friendly interface, especially for map production and digitising. I know
that this has been stated before in this thread, but I want stress this
point out.

I'm working as as supporter and software trainer for a software company
and not few of our customers are paying much money for applications,
which simplifys/extend the common ArcGIS funcitonallity! Most people are
overstrained about the functionallity of GIS software. I think the users
of GIS have changed over the past decade. More common people have to
work with GIS (especially public servants). GIS has become a common
software tool so the users aren't only specialist as some years ago!
This "new" users just want to have a button and that's it. Don't ask
them to create a sql string for extracting some data out of a database.

So as already mentioned, OS GIS NEEDS as userfriendly Interface,
powerful digitizing and map production tools which are easy to use. When
these issues have been solved, we will see a strong rising spread of  OS
GIS software.

Just my opinion.
Malte
PS: I love OS Software, but I just want to see a rising distribution of it!


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[Jorge Sanz (Prodevelop)]

2008/4/26 Saka Royban <[hidden email]>:

>
> ٍExcellent discussion.
> I have been an ArcGIS user and now i am transferring to OS.
> in my opinion, the best point of ArcGIS is that you everything in 1 package
> => simplifying tasks
> about OS, at least i see no difference in Web-GIS domain. OS softwares like
> UMN mapserver and Mapguide OS sometimes work better.
> in the field of Desktop GIS, although QGIS, GRASS,Sharpmap and other tools
> are available but in a diverse manner.
> the main problem is that the most powerful OS sotfware (GRASS) in this area
> is under Linux not windows (=> developing desktop GIS tools sounds very
> difficult). As announced by GRASS dev group, this problem is gonna solve
> soon.
>
> ===> OS GIS support most of expected needs from GIS, but sometimes with
> consuming more time.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Malte Halbey-Martin <[hidden email]>
> To: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:56:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with
> ESRI)?
>
>  Hi,
>
> IMHO the most barrier for people using OS GIS is the lack of a user
> friendly interface, especially for map production and digitising. I know
> that this has been stated before in this thread, but I want stress this
> point out.
>
> I'm working as as supporter and software trainer for a software company
> and not few of our customers are paying much money for applications,
> which simplifys/extend the common ArcGIS funcitonallity! Most people are
> overstrained about the functionallity of GIS software. I think the users
> of GIS have changed over the past decade. More common people have to
> work with GIS (especially public servants). GIS has become a common
> software tool so the users aren't only specialist as some years ago!
> This "new" users just want to have a button and that's it. Don't ask
> them to create a sql string for extracting some data out of a database.
>
> So as already mentioned, OS GIS NEEDS as userfriendly Interface,
> powerful digitizing and map production tools which are easy to use. When
> these issues have been solved, we will see a strong rising spread of  OS
> GIS software.
>
> Just my opinion.
> Malte
> PS: I love OS Software, but I just want to see a rising distribution of it!
>
>

Hi

I'm enjoying a lot with that thread as always  a Free/Privative
comparison appears.

But I'm quite  surprised because it seems that privative geosoftware
is only ESRI, what about Geomedia, ERDAS, ERMapper, Smallworld... for
instance

IMHO, free desktop GIS is not so far from privative solutions. With
nice projects like QGis/GRASS or gvSIG I think we are not far from
having almost all the funcitonality any user could need for
collecting, analise and output.

Creating nice paper outputs for me it's really important (and current
user-friendly tools are far from producing acceptable maps) but maybe
there are other outputs like SVG, KML or map server configuration
files that are really important as the Internet is there and almost
all of use use more web maps rather than paper maps.

For me, one of the most worrying lacks in FOSS4G is an ArcSDE
alternative because at this time there is not way for concurrence
corporative database editing. GeoServer project sees that as a
long-term project in their roadmap[2][3] but if we want a powerful
web-distributed editing we need it right now.

Regards

[1]http://www.sigte.udg.es/jornadassiglibre/uploads/file/Presentaciones/20.ppt
[2]http://geoserver.org/display/GEOS/Roadmap
[3]http://geoserver.org/display/GEOS/Open+Source+ArcSDE
--
Jorge Gaspar Sanz Salinas
Ingeniero en Geodesia y Cartografía
http://www.geomaticblog.net
http://www.prodevelop.es

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[Mohamed Ghareeb]

Concerning OpenJump it is really good but I couldn't make a pie chart map
with it as I could do with Arcview 3.x
I added the charts plugin but I think It doesn't classify the size of charts
symbol.
Does anyone can do it by any open-source GIS?

Mohamed Mostafa

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:36 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with
ESRI)?

A convert! Welcome Jennifer.

I can't speak for GRASS, but I know that OpenJUMP
(http://jump-pilot.sourceforge.net/OpenJUMP.html) could be compared to
the old 3.X Arcview. It has limited printing abilities at this point in
time, but I don't think there is a better cross-platform tool for basic
ESRI Shapefile manipulation. (I'm a volunteer on the project and
therefore biased in my opinion on this matter.)

I think you will find you can do 95% of what you could with ESRI
software, you'll just have to do it with an assortment of tools instead
of a single tool.

Landon

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jennifer Horsman
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:41 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with
ESRI)?

The thread that was started today with the subject "Your open source
career" got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling
around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience
with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products.

I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my
own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for
ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed,
but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably
changed since then too!)

Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I
know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would
be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to
the ESRI products?

Thanks,
Jennifer



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[Miguel Montesinos]

Hello Mohamed,

It's under development in gvSIG. Within this year (rough approximation) a new version whould be published with advanced symbology support as well as other features. If interested, you may have a look at the gvSIG road map [1]

Regards

[1] http://www.gvsig.gva.es/index.php?id=funcionalidades&L=2%2Findex.php%3Fid%3D&K=1&L=2

---------------------------------
Miguel Montesinos
Director Técnico
PRODEVELOP
C/ Conde Salvatierra, 34 - 10
46004 Valencia. Spain
e-mail: [hidden email]
http://www.prodevelop.es
Tlf: [phone]

 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mohamed Ghareeb
>Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:14 PM
>To: 'OSGeo Discussions'
>Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with
>OS (aswith ESRI)?
>
>Concerning OpenJump it is really good but I couldn't make a
>pie chart map with it as I could do with Arcview 3.x I added
>the charts plugin but I think It doesn't classify the size of
>charts symbol.
>Does anyone can do it by any open-source GIS?
>
>Mohamed Mostafa
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Landon Blake
>Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:36 PM
>To: OSGeo Discussions
>Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with
>OS (as with ESRI)?
>
>A convert! Welcome Jennifer.
>
>I can't speak for GRASS, but I know that OpenJUMP
>(http://jump-pilot.sourceforge.net/OpenJUMP.html) could be
>compared to the old 3.X Arcview. It has limited printing
>abilities at this point in time, but I don't think there is a
>better cross-platform tool for basic ESRI Shapefile
>manipulation. (I'm a volunteer on the project and therefore
>biased in my opinion on this matter.)
>
>I think you will find you can do 95% of what you could with
>ESRI software, you'll just have to do it with an assortment of
>tools instead of a single tool.
>
>Landon
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jennifer Horsman
>Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:41 PM
>To: OSGeo Discussions
>Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS
>(as with ESRI)?
>
>The thread that was started today with the subject "Your open
>source career" got me thinking about asking a question that
>has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those
>people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS
>GIS products.
>
>I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to
>start my own contract business and will not be able to afford
>the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux
>box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since
>I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!)
>
>Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as
>ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps
>another question would be where does GRASS fall short and
>where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products?
>
>Thanks,
>Jennifer
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Discuss mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>Warning:
>Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed
>against defects including translation and transmission errors.
>If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
>this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
>received this information in error, please notify the sender
>immediately.
>_______________________________________________
>Discuss mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>_______________________________________________
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[Randy George]

I know this is not OS but GoogleChart is easy to use:
http://code.google.com/apis/chart/ 

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=p3&chd=t:20,40,30,10&chs=250x100&chl=
Hello|World|of|Google

and it can be used to add chart icons for use in online mapping interfaces,
not necessarily Google's, and not just pie charts. However, as with all of
Google stuff the license is a gotcha for most businesses.

Adding your own similar chart tool using svg or wpf/Silverlight interfaces
would not be much of a problem. Plus you get better scaling with vector
graphics along with click/rollover/tooltip... capabilities.

Raster Icon charts seem to be a useable approach for map data as discussed
here:
http://blog.thematicmapping.org/2008/04/using-google-charts-with-kml.html

I'd favor vector if you want drill-in capability though.

randy

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mohamed Ghareeb
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:14 AM
To: 'OSGeo Discussions'
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with
ESRI)?

Concerning OpenJump it is really good but I couldn't make a pie chart map
with it as I could do with Arcview 3.x
I added the charts plugin but I think It doesn't classify the size of charts
symbol.
Does anyone can do it by any open-source GIS?

Mohamed Mostafa

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Landon Blake
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:36 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with
ESRI)?

A convert! Welcome Jennifer.

I can't speak for GRASS, but I know that OpenJUMP
(http://jump-pilot.sourceforge.net/OpenJUMP.html) could be compared to
the old 3.X Arcview. It has limited printing abilities at this point in
time, but I don't think there is a better cross-platform tool for basic
ESRI Shapefile manipulation. (I'm a volunteer on the project and
therefore biased in my opinion on this matter.)

I think you will find you can do 95% of what you could with ESRI
software, you'll just have to do it with an assortment of tools instead
of a single tool.

Landon

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jennifer Horsman
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:41 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with
ESRI)?

The thread that was started today with the subject "Your open source
career" got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling
around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience
with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products.

I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my
own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for
ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed,
but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably
changed since then too!)

Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I
know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would
be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to
the ESRI products?

Thanks,
Jennifer



_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


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including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the
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have received this information in error, please notify the sender
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