Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef

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Markus KARG

Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef

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I have read both, the WiX manual and the WiX tutorial.

 

While the WiX tutorial is putting content (<File>s) directly into structure
(<Directory>s), the WiX manual is always separating it (<File>s are only
used in <DirectoryRef>s). As Gábor didn't know why the WiX manual authors
did that complexity, I'd like to ask this mailing list: Why is the WiX
manual separating content from structure, even in the most simplest How-To
documents?

 

Regards

Markus

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JK E-Lists

Re: Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef

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> did that complexity ... Why is the WiX manual separating content  
> from structure


Markus,

I am a new WiX user, but based my gut reaction as a software engineer,  
and my thin experience so far with WiX, the answer is "separation of  
concerns", which is a fancy way of saying "because it's smart to do".

Once you move past the most simple of projects, separating content  
from structure allows you to maintain your sanity. :)

As far as the documentation is concerned (isolated from any project),  
I like the DirectoryRef use as (1) it illustrates appropriate use but  
more importantly (2) it does keep things focused on the example at hand.

Just my two bits.

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Markus KARG

Re: Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef

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I disagree that structure and content are different concerns, they are the
same (or do you separate files and folders on your harddisk, too?). The
question was, why it is used in the *most simple* examples. Since it does
*not* focus on the example at hand, but instead, makes that examples overly
lengthy and complex, compared to the examples found in the WiX tutorial. In
fact, I share the WiX tutorial author's opinion that DirectoryRef shouldn't
get used unless it is *needed* (yes, these days we designers discuss topics
like 'overdesigning' and 'overarchitecturing') to not provide lots of code
overhead (which is hard to read and error-prone) -- what mostly will be the
case only if <Fragment> is used. *That's* why I asked for a reason. If it
would be optimal to *always* separate it, then it wouldn't make any sense to
allow <File> inside of <Directory> at all, since virtually nobody will
confess that he is writing a HelloWorld.msi... ;-)

Regards
Markus

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IFM Lists [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 4. November 2009 01:04
> To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.
> Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef
>
>
> > did that complexity ... Why is the WiX manual separating content
> > from structure
>
>
> Markus,
>
> I am a new WiX user, but based my gut reaction as a software engineer,
> and my thin experience so far with WiX, the answer is "separation of
> concerns", which is a fancy way of saying "because it's smart to do".
>
> Once you move past the most simple of projects, separating content
> from structure allows you to maintain your sanity. :)
>
> As far as the documentation is concerned (isolated from any project),
> I like the DirectoryRef use as (1) it illustrates appropriate use but
> more importantly (2) it does keep things focused on the example at
> hand.
>
> Just my two bits.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
> WiX-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users


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Zachary Young-2

Re: Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef

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In reply to this post by JK E-Lists
Hi Markus,

I've been writing WiX installers for over a year now and started off
relatively soon with using <DirectoryRef/>, putting solely my directory tree
in one WXS (DirectoryStructure.wxs) and then having each <File/> referencing
the directory ID's in that file.

This later became very valuable when we started selling one product to many
customers--each customer needed a slightly unique look to their installer,
but the underlying directory structure needed to be exactly the same for the
application to run--so all the individual projects linked in this one
directory structure.

-Zach

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Markus Karg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I disagree that structure and content are different concerns, they are the
> same (or do you separate files and folders on your harddisk, too?). The
> question was, why it is used in the *most simple* examples. Since it does
> *not* focus on the example at hand, but instead, makes that examples overly
> lengthy and complex, compared to the examples found in the WiX tutorial. In
> fact, I share the WiX tutorial author's opinion that DirectoryRef shouldn't
> get used unless it is *needed* (yes, these days we designers discuss topics
> like 'overdesigning' and 'overarchitecturing') to not provide lots of code
> overhead (which is hard to read and error-prone) -- what mostly will be the
> case only if <Fragment> is used. *That's* why I asked for a reason. If it
> would be optimal to *always* separate it, then it wouldn't make any sense
> to
> allow <File> inside of <Directory> at all, since virtually nobody will
> confess that he is writing a HelloWorld.msi... ;-)
>
> Regards
> Markus
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: IFM Lists [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Mittwoch, 4. November 2009 01:04
> > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.
> > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef
> >
> >
> > > did that complexity ... Why is the WiX manual separating content
> > > from structure
> >
> >
> > Markus,
> >
> > I am a new WiX user, but based my gut reaction as a software engineer,
> > and my thin experience so far with WiX, the answer is "separation of
> > concerns", which is a fancy way of saying "because it's smart to do".
> >
> > Once you move past the most simple of projects, separating content
> > from structure allows you to maintain your sanity. :)
> >
> > As far as the documentation is concerned (isolated from any project),
> > I like the DirectoryRef use as (1) it illustrates appropriate use but
> > more importantly (2) it does keep things focused on the example at
> > hand.
> >
> > Just my two bits.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
> > 30-Day
> > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
> > focus on
> > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> > Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> > _______________________________________________
> > WiX-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus
> on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
> WiX-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
>
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Markus KARG

Re: Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef

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I understand *your* reasons, but again, my question was: Why using
DirectoryRef in the *most simple*, *very first* How-To (that
HelloWorld-style one read first by every WiX beginner) printed in the WiX
documentation? My question is *not* if anybody knows *any* reason for using
DirectoryRef in general -- I can assume lots of them by myself and think
separation is great -- but my question is *only* about the WiX manual
sample.

Regards
Markus

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zachary Young [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 4. November 2009 21:37
> To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.
> Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef
>
> Hi Markus,
>
> I've been writing WiX installers for over a year now and started off
> relatively soon with using <DirectoryRef/>, putting solely my directory
> tree
> in one WXS (DirectoryStructure.wxs) and then having each <File/>
> referencing
> the directory ID's in that file.
>
> This later became very valuable when we started selling one product to
> many
> customers--each customer needed a slightly unique look to their
> installer,
> but the underlying directory structure needed to be exactly the same
> for the
> application to run--so all the individual projects linked in this one
> directory structure.
>
> -Zach
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Markus Karg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I disagree that structure and content are different concerns, they
> are the
> > same (or do you separate files and folders on your harddisk, too?).
> The
> > question was, why it is used in the *most simple* examples. Since it
> does
> > *not* focus on the example at hand, but instead, makes that examples
> overly
> > lengthy and complex, compared to the examples found in the WiX
> tutorial. In
> > fact, I share the WiX tutorial author's opinion that DirectoryRef
> shouldn't
> > get used unless it is *needed* (yes, these days we designers discuss
> topics
> > like 'overdesigning' and 'overarchitecturing') to not provide lots of
> code
> > overhead (which is hard to read and error-prone) -- what mostly will
> be the
> > case only if <Fragment> is used. *That's* why I asked for a reason.
> If it
> > would be optimal to *always* separate it, then it wouldn't make any
> sense
> > to
> > allow <File> inside of <Directory> at all, since virtually nobody
> will
> > confess that he is writing a HelloWorld.msi... ;-)
> >
> > Regards
> > Markus
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: IFM Lists [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > > Sent: Mittwoch, 4. November 2009 01:04
> > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.
> > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef
> > >
> > >
> > > > did that complexity ... Why is the WiX manual separating content
> > > > from structure
> > >
> > >
> > > Markus,
> > >
> > > I am a new WiX user, but based my gut reaction as a software
> engineer,
> > > and my thin experience so far with WiX, the answer is "separation
> of
> > > concerns", which is a fancy way of saying "because it's smart to
> do".
> > >
> > > Once you move past the most simple of projects, separating content
> > > from structure allows you to maintain your sanity. :)
> > >
> > > As far as the documentation is concerned (isolated from any
> project),
> > > I like the DirectoryRef use as (1) it illustrates appropriate use
> but
> > > more importantly (2) it does keep things focused on the example at
> > > hand.
> > >
> > > Just my two bits.
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > > -------
> > > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports
> 2008
> > > 30-Day
> > > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -
> and
> > > focus on
> > > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> > > Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WiX-users mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
> 30-Day
> > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
> focus
> > on
> > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> > Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> > _______________________________________________
> > WiX-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
> WiX-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users


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John H. Bergman (XPedient Technologies)

WiX 3.5, problem during uninstall when User defined

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When I add a User element inside my installers component, as such, I receive a Fatal Error during uninstall, even if I do not use the user within the install.

<Component Id='component_Service' Guid="4ADD096A-CF39-454b-AF01-1EA39092C9DB" DiskId='1'>
    <util:User Id ='appServiceAccount' Name='[XPJUSER]' Password='[XPJPASSWORD]' Domain='[XPJDOMAIN]'
               LogonAsService='yes' RemoveOnUninstall='no' UpdateIfExists='yes'></util:User>
</Component>

How do I determine the cause of the uninstall failure?  I would expect the user to not be affected during uninstall, because of the RemoveOnUninstall, however, apparently something is executed.

Anyone have any ideas how to correct this?

Thanks,
John

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John H. Bergman (XPedient Technologies)

Re: WiX 3.5, problem during uninstall when User defined

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In addition, this also fails to uninstall.

      <util:Group Id="IISAppPoolGroup" Name="IIS_WPG"/>

      <Component Id='component_AppPoolUser' Guid='C797149D-77AC-4cb1-A3B0-C2C5DA79385D'>
        <util:User Id ='appPoolAccount' Name='[XPJUSER]' Password='[XPJPASSWORD]' Domain='[XPJDOMAIN]' >
          <util:GroupRef Id='IISAppPoolGroup'/>
        </util:User>
      </Component>

The install works perfectly (as does the one below).

Can someone please point me in the right direction?

-----Original Message-----
From: John H. Bergman (XPedient Technologies) [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:11 PM
To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.
Subject: [WiX-users] WiX 3.5, problem during uninstall when User defined

When I add a User element inside my installers component, as such, I receive a Fatal Error during uninstall, even if I do not use the user within the install.

<Component Id='component_Service' Guid="4ADD096A-CF39-454b-AF01-1EA39092C9DB" DiskId='1'>
    <util:User Id ='appServiceAccount' Name='[XPJUSER]' Password='[XPJPASSWORD]' Domain='[XPJDOMAIN]'
               LogonAsService='yes' RemoveOnUninstall='no' UpdateIfExists='yes'></util:User>
</Component>

How do I determine the cause of the uninstall failure?  I would expect the user to not be affected during uninstall, because of the RemoveOnUninstall, however, apparently something is executed.

Anyone have any ideas how to correct this?

Thanks,
John

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Bob Arnson-6

Re: Why is the WiX manual using DirectoryRef

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In reply to this post by Markus KARG
Markus Karg wrote:
> I understand *your* reasons, but again, my question was: Why using
> DirectoryRef in the *most simple*, *very first* How-To (that
> HelloWorld-style one read first by every WiX beginner) printed in the WiX
> documentation?

All other things being equal, prefer best practices.

--
sig://boB
http://joyofsetup.com/



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Bob Arnson-6

Re: WiX 3.5, problem during uninstall when User defined

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In reply to this post by John H. Bergman (XPedient Technologies)
John H. Bergman (XPedient Technologies) wrote:
> How do I determine the cause of the uninstall failure?  

Verbose log. See
http://www.joyofsetup.com/2008/07/15/verbose-logging-from-wcautil/ to
get verbose logging from WiX custom actions.

--
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http://joyofsetup.com/



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