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Visual Studio

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1 2 3

Martyn Shaw-2

Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

Hi

I see recent changes have made building with VS 2005 impossible, you
now need 2008. I'm not sure it was a planned change and I think we
recently decided to not do this.

What does anyone else think?

TTFN
Martyn

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Greg Williams-3

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

I'm working on MSVC 2008 since 2005 is no longer available. I was speaking with Leland about this issue with the project files earlier today and we did in fact decide to keep the files compatible with MSVC 2005. Unfortunately, I was under the (mistaken) impression that original project files would be untouched during the conversion from 2005 to 2008 format. I see now that I've overwritten the MSVC 2005 project files with the 2008 version and have made it impossible to work in MSVC 2005. Please feel free to roll back to the old project files and recommit them.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
-Greg

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Martyn Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I see recent changes have made building with VS 2005 impossible, you
now need 2008. I'm not sure it was a planned change and I think we
recently decided to not do this.

What does anyone else think?

TTFN
Martyn

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André Pinto

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Martyn Shaw-2

Hi

I use 2008 without any problem, but I guess it's easier to migrate a VS2005 project to 2008 than the opposite, so maybe it's better to keep with the old version if it's possible and if there are people that still use 2005 and don't want to go to 2008.

André.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Martyn Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I see recent changes have made building with VS 2005 impossible, you
now need 2008. I'm not sure it was a planned change and I think we
recently decided to not do this.

What does anyone else think?

TTFN
Martyn

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Leland Lucius-4

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Martyn Shaw-2

No, I don't believe it was planned. Probably happened when Phil committed. I'll be doing some work on the project tonight anyway, so I'll fix them.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Martyn Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I see recent changes have made building with VS 2005 impossible, you
now need 2008. I'm not sure it was a planned change and I think we
recently decided to not do this.

What does anyone else think?

TTFN
Martyn

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Leland Lucius-4

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

Actually, looks like it may have been Greg's commit. In any case, I'll fix them when I get home.

Leland

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Leland Lucius <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, I don't believe it was planned. Probably happened when Phil committed. I'll be doing some work on the project tonight anyway, so I'll fix them.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Martyn Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I see recent changes have made building with VS 2005 impossible, you
now need 2008. I'm not sure it was a planned change and I think we
recently decided to not do this.

What does anyone else think?

TTFN
Martyn

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Leland (Audacity Team)

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

Should be good to go now.

Leland

Leland Lucius wrote:

> Actually, looks like it may have been Greg's commit. In any case, I'll
> fix them when I get home.
>
> Leland
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Leland Lucius <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> No, I don't believe it was planned. Probably happened when Phil
> committed. I'll be doing some work on the project tonight anyway,
> so I'll fix them.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Martyn Shaw
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I see recent changes have made building with VS 2005 impossible, you
> now need 2008. I'm not sure it was a planned change and I think we
> recently decided to not do this.
>
> What does anyone else think?
>
> TTFN
> Martyn
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> audacity-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>
>

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Greg Williams-3

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Martyn Shaw-2

Thanks, Leland!

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Leland <[hidden email]> wrote:

Should be good to go now.

Leland

Leland Lucius wrote:
> Actually, looks like it may have been Greg's commit. In any case, I'll
> fix them when I get home.
>
> Leland
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Leland Lucius <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> No, I don't believe it was planned. Probably happened when Phil
> committed. I'll be doing some work on the project tonight anyway,
> so I'll fix them.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Martyn Shaw
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>

> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I see recent changes have made building with VS 2005 impossible, you
> now need 2008. I'm not sure it was a planned change and I think we
> recently decided to not do this.
>
> What does anyone else think?
>
> TTFN
> Martyn
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> audacity-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]

> <mailto:[hidden email]>

> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>
>

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Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Leland (Audacity Team)

Leland (Audacity Team) wrote:
> Should be good to go now.
>
> Leland

Hi Leland

I have updated so have your
\audacity\win\Projects\Audacity\Audacity.vcproj

and
\audacity\win\audacity.sln

which you converted back to VS 2005. But when opening your sln, my (full) edition of VS 2005 only opens the File Conversion Wizard, saying the project was created in a previous version of Visual Studio. Nothing happens when trying to click "Next" or "Finish" in the Wizard. Have I somehow created a problem when I tried to open the previous sln created in VS 2008?

Gale

Leland Lucius wrote:
> Actually, looks like it may have been Greg's commit. In any case, I'll
> fix them when I get home.
>
> Leland
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Leland Lucius <lllucius@gmail.com
> <mailto:lllucius@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> No, I don't believe it was planned. Probably happened when Phil
> committed. I'll be doing some work on the project tonight anyway,
> so I'll fix them.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Martyn Shaw
> <martynshaw99@googlemail.com <mailto:martynshaw99@googlemail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I see recent changes have made building with VS 2005 impossible, you
> now need 2008. I'm not sure it was a planned change and I think we
> recently decided to not do this.
>
> What does anyone else think?
>
> TTFN
> Martyn
>

Leland (Audacity Team)

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:

> Leland (Audacity Team) wrote:
>> Should be good to go now.
>>
>> Leland
>
> Hi Leland
>
> I have updated so have your
> \audacity\win\Projects\Audacity\Audacity.vcproj
>
> and
> \audacity\win\audacity.sln
>
> which you converted back to VS 2005. But when opening your sln, my (full)
> edition of VS 2005 only opens the File Conversion Wizard, saying the project
> was created in a previous version of Visual Studio. Nothing happens when
> trying to click "Next" or "Finish" in the Wizard. Have I somehow created a
> problem when I tried to open the previous sln created in VS 2008?
>

That's odd. I use VS Pro as well and it didn't do this. Might be worthwhile (though a pain) to checkout a fresh copy and try again.

Leland

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Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

| From Leland <[hidden email]>
| Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:40:58 -0500
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Visual Studio

> Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > Leland (Audacity Team) wrote:
> >> Should be good to go now.
> >>
> >> Leland
> >
> > Hi Leland
> >
> > I have updated so have your
> > \audacity\win\Projects\Audacity\Audacity.vcproj
> >
> > and
> > \audacity\win\audacity.sln
> >
> > which you converted back to VS 2005. But when opening your sln, my (full)
> > edition of VS 2005 only opens the File Conversion Wizard, saying the project
> > was created in a previous version of Visual Studio. Nothing happens when
> > trying to click "Next" or "Finish" in the Wizard. Have I somehow created a
> > problem when I tried to open the previous sln created in VS 2008?
> >
> That's odd. I use VS Pro as well and it didn't do this. Might be worthwhile
> (though a pain) to checkout a fresh copy and try again.

I thought you might say that =:). Working now OK.

Gale

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Martyn Shaw-2

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Leland (Audacity Team)

Thanks Leland!
Martyn

Leland wrote:

> Should be good to go now.
> Leland
>
>
> Leland Lucius wrote:
>> Actually, looks like it may have been Greg's commit. In any case,
>> I'll fix them when I get home.
>>
>> Leland
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Leland Lucius <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> No, I don't believe it was planned. Probably happened when Phil
>> committed. I'll be doing some work on the project tonight anyway,
>> so I'll fix them.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Martyn Shaw
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I see recent changes have made building with VS 2005
>> impossible, you
>> now need 2008. I'm not sure it was a planned change and I
>> think we
>> recently decided to not do this.
>>
>> What does anyone else think?
>>
>> TTFN
>> Martyn
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> audacity-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

Let's discuss this choice again, please. Visual Studio Express 2005 is
not easy to obtain, and not supported. Maybe we should reconsider
sticking with 2005, and upgrade to 2008. I have 2005 Pro so was
reluctant to go to the 2008 Express edition, but the other factor was
that VS2008 won't run on my ancient Win2k system. I do have an XP
machine now, though, so it's feasible for me.

Could we preserve the old project files (maybe just a tag?) so, for
example, I could still do a get and build with current code on the Win2k
system? From Leland's reversions it looks like no code changes, just
tags in project files.

Anybody very opposed to standardizing on VS 2008? If we're going to
commit to it, we should do so soon, so 1.3.8 and 2.0 releases are built
on it.

- Vaughan

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Martyn Shaw-2

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

I don't mind switching. It's 3 more, after all. Can I install it
alongside 2005 pro, just to try it out does anybody know?

Martyn

Vaughan Johnson wrote:

> Let's discuss this choice again, please. Visual Studio Express 2005 is
> not easy to obtain, and not supported. Maybe we should reconsider
> sticking with 2005, and upgrade to 2008. I have 2005 Pro so was
> reluctant to go to the 2008 Express edition, but the other factor was
> that VS2008 won't run on my ancient Win2k system. I do have an XP
> machine now, though, so it's feasible for me.
>
> Could we preserve the old project files (maybe just a tag?) so, for
> example, I could still do a get and build with current code on the Win2k
> system? From Leland's reversions it looks like no code changes, just
> tags in project files.
>
> Anybody very opposed to standardizing on VS 2008? If we're going to
> commit to it, we should do so soon, so 1.3.8 and 2.0 releases are built
> on it.
>
> - Vaughan
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> audacity-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>

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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

I don't know for sure, but probably, as I still have a working copy of
VS 2003 alongside 2005, so I can work on 1.2.6 branches... but that's
become rare. - V

Martyn Shaw wrote:

> I don't mind switching. It's 3 more, after all. Can I install it
> alongside 2005 pro, just to try it out does anybody know?
>
> Martyn
>
> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>
>> Let's discuss this choice again, please. Visual Studio Express 2005 is
>> not easy to obtain, and not supported. Maybe we should reconsider
>> sticking with 2005, and upgrade to 2008. I have 2005 Pro so was
>> reluctant to go to the 2008 Express edition, but the other factor was
>> that VS2008 won't run on my ancient Win2k system. I do have an XP
>> machine now, though, so it's feasible for me.
>>
>> Could we preserve the old project files (maybe just a tag?) so, for
>> example, I could still do a get and build with current code on the Win2k
>> system? From Leland's reversions it looks like no code changes, just
>> tags in project files.
>>
>> Anybody very opposed to standardizing on VS 2008? If we're going to
>> commit to it, we should do so soon, so 1.3.8 and 2.0 releases are built
>> on it.
>>
>> - Vaughan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> audacity-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> audacity-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>

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Leland (Audacity Team)

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Martyn Shaw-2

Martyn Shaw wrote:
> I don't mind switching. It's 3 more, after all. Can I install it
> alongside 2005 pro, just to try it out does anybody know?
>
Yes, you can do that...I do it all the time.

Leland

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Leland (Audacity Team)

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Vaughan Johnson

Downgrade utes, might be helpful: (haven't tried them)

http://www.emmet-gray.com/Articles/ProjectConverter.htm
http://mises.org/Community/blogs/misestech/archive/2008/02/28/visual-studio-2008-to-2005-downgrade-utility.aspx
https://sourceforge.net/projects/vspc

Vaughan Johnson wrote:

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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

Thanks. Those look promising.

I downloaded VC 2008 Express, and had it convert a fresh checkout. Built
Unicode Release and Debug with no problem, but it's crashing a *lot*,
e.g., in Generate Pluck, or Play. Does the code need to change?

- V

Leland wrote:

> Downgrade utes, might be helpful: (haven't tried them)
>
> http://www.emmet-gray.com/Articles/ProjectConverter.htm
> http://mises.org/Community/blogs/misestech/archive/2008/02/28/visual-studio-2008-to-2005-downgrade-utility.aspx
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/vspc
>
>
> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>
>> Let's discuss this choice again, please. Visual Studio Express 2005 is
>> not easy to obtain, and not supported. Maybe we should reconsider
>> sticking with 2005, and upgrade to 2008. I have 2005 Pro so was
>> reluctant to go to the 2008 Express edition, but the other factor was
>> that VS2008 won't run on my ancient Win2k system. I do have an XP
>> machine now, though, so it's feasible for me.
>>
>> Could we preserve the old project files (maybe just a tag?) so, for
>> example, I could still do a get and build with current code on the Win2k
>> system? From Leland's reversions it looks like no code changes, just
>> tags in project files.
>>
>> Anybody very opposed to standardizing on VS 2008? If we're going to
>> commit to it, we should do so soon, so 1.3.8 and 2.0 releases are built
>> on it.
>>
>> - Vaughan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> audacity-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> audacity-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>

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Leland (Audacity Team)

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

Rebuild WX as well. Remember, to keep separate 2005 and 2008 WX directories.

Leland

Vaughan Johnson wrote:

> Thanks. Those look promising.
>
> I downloaded VC 2008 Express, and had it convert a fresh checkout. Built
> Unicode Release and Debug with no problem, but it's crashing a *lot*,
> e.g., in Generate Pluck, or Play. Does the code need to change?
>
> - V
>
> Leland wrote:
>> Downgrade utes, might be helpful: (haven't tried them)
>>
>> http://www.emmet-gray.com/Articles/ProjectConverter.htm
>> http://mises.org/Community/blogs/misestech/archive/2008/02/28/visual-studio-2008-to-2005-downgrade-utility.aspx
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/vspc
>>
>>
>> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Let's discuss this choice again, please. Visual Studio Express 2005 is
>>> not easy to obtain, and not supported. Maybe we should reconsider
>>> sticking with 2005, and upgrade to 2008. I have 2005 Pro so was
>>> reluctant to go to the 2008 Express edition, but the other factor was
>>> that VS2008 won't run on my ancient Win2k system. I do have an XP
>>> machine now, though, so it's feasible for me.
>>>
>>> Could we preserve the old project files (maybe just a tag?) so, for
>>> example, I could still do a get and build with current code on the Win2k
>>> system? From Leland's reversions it looks like no code changes, just
>>> tags in project files.
>>>
>>> Anybody very opposed to standardizing on VS 2008? If we're going to
>>> commit to it, we should do so soon, so 1.3.8 and 2.0 releases are built
>>> on it.
>>>
>>> - Vaughan
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> audacity-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> audacity-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> audacity-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>

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Brian Mayer

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Hello, I'm building for the first time. Vista 64 + VC 2008 Express + wx2.8.9 tar + audacity 1.3.7 tar. Same result as Vaughn: Everything built, but File-Open crashes. Any advice on next steps?

Brian Mayer

> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:10:53 -0500
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Visual Studio
>
> Rebuild WX as well. Remember, to keep separate 2005 and 2008 WX directories.
>
> Leland
>
> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
> > Thanks. Those look promising.
> >
> > I downloaded VC 2008 Express, and had it convert a fresh checkout. Built
> > Unicode Release and Debug with no problem, but it's crashing a *lot*,
> > e.g., in Generate Pluck, or Play. Does the code need to change?
> >
> > - V
> >
> > Leland wrote:
> >> Downgrade utes, might be helpful: (haven't tried them)
> >>
> >> http://www.emmet-gray.com/Articles/ProjectConverter.htm
> >> http://mises.org/Community/blogs/misestech/archive/2008/02/28/visual-studio-2008-to-2005-downgrade-utility.aspx
> >> https://sourceforge.net/projects/vspc
> >>
> >>
> >> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Let's discuss this choice again, please. Visual Studio Express 2005 is
> >>> not easy to obtain, and not supported. Maybe we should reconsider
> >>> sticking with 2005, and upgrade to 2008. I have 2005 Pro so was
> >>> reluctant to go to the 2008 Express edition, but the other factor was
> >>> that VS2008 won't run on my ancient Win2k system. I do have an XP
> >>> machine now, though, so it's feasible for me.
> >>>
> >>> Could we preserve the old project files (maybe just a tag?) so, for
> >>> example, I could still do a get and build with current code on the Win2k
> >>> system? From Leland's reversions it looks like no code changes, just
> >>> tags in project files.
> >>>
> >>> Anybody very opposed to standardizing on VS 2008? If we're going to
> >>> commit to it, we should do so soon, so 1.3.8 and 2.0 releases are built
> >>> on it.
> >>>
> >>> - Vaughan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> audacity-devel mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> audacity-devel mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > _______________________________________________
> > audacity-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> audacity-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel

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Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Visual Studio

Reply Threaded

| From Brian Mayer <[hidden email]>
| Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:42:06 -0400
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Visual Studio
> Hello, I'm building for the first time. Vista 64 + VC 2008
> Express + wx2.8.9 tar + audacity 1.3.7 tar. Same result as Vaughn:
> Everything built, but File-Open crashes. Any advice on next steps?

Can you do a fresh checkout of CVS HEAD then compile that?
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/community/developers#cvs

Then everyone will be testing the same thing.

Gale

> > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:10:53 -0500
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Visual Studio
> >
> > Rebuild WX as well. Remember, to keep separate 2005 and 2008 WX directories.
> >
> > Leland
> >
> > Vaughan Johnson wrote:
> > > Thanks. Those look promising.
> > >
> > > I downloaded VC 2008 Express, and had it convert a fresh checkout. Built
> > > Unicode Release and Debug with no problem, but it's crashing a *lot*,
> > > e.g., in Generate Pluck, or Play. Does the code need to change?
> > >
> > > - V
> > >
> > > Leland wrote:
> > >> Downgrade utes, might be helpful: (haven't tried them)
> > >>
> > >> http://www.emmet-gray.com/Articles/ProjectConverter.htm
> > >> http://mises.org/Community/blogs/misestech/archive/2008/02/28/visual-studio-2008-to-2005-downgrade-utility.aspx
> > >> https://sourceforge.net/projects/vspc
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Let's discuss this choice again, please. Visual Studio Express 2005 is
> > >>> not easy to obtain, and not supported. Maybe we should reconsider
> > >>> sticking with 2005, and upgrade to 2008. I have 2005 Pro so was
> > >>> reluctant to go to the 2008 Express edition, but the other factor was
> > >>> that VS2008 won't run on my ancient Win2k system. I do have an XP
> > >>> machine now, though, so it's feasible for me.
> > >>>
> > >>> Could we preserve the old project files (maybe just a tag?) so, for
> > >>> example, I could still do a get and build with current code on the Win2k
> > >>> system? From Leland's reversions it looks like no code changes, just
> > >>> tags in project files.
> > >>>
> > >>> Anybody very opposed to standardizing on VS 2008? If we're going to
> > >>> commit to it, we should do so soon, so 1.3.8 and 2.0 releases are built
> > >>> on it.
> > >>>
> > >>> - Vaughan
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
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>
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