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Marcos Antonio Passarelli
Translation
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Some parts to portuguese translation. It´s my first contribution
 
                                           Marconis


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Cleber Tavano-2
Re: Translation
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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
Hey there!

The website translation for brazilian portuguese is almost done, I just wanted to make it a hundred percent ok before commiting it online.

But any help is appreciated! If you want to review the translated version, I will be glad to send you the file.

Abraços
Cleber


Marcos Antonio Passarelli escreveu:
Some parts to portuguese translation. It´s my first contribution
 
                                           Marconis

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Marcos Antonio Passarelli
Re: Translation
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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
If the translation has been made, why I can´t see in the help audacity ? .
 
And the part that I did it was complete.
 
                               Abs, Marcos
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] Translation

Hey there!
 
The website translation for brazilian portuguese is almost done, I just wanted to make it a hundred percent ok before commiting it online.

But any help is appreciated! If you want to review the translated version, I will be glad to send you the file.

Abraços
Cleber


Marcos Antonio Passarelli escreveu:
Some parts to portuguese translation. It´s my first contribution
 
                                           Marconis

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Cleber Tavano-2
Re: Translation
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Hi Marcos,
 
After a translation is done and reviewed, it needs to be published (and saved of course :) ) to get online. Since it's a manual job, it's better to keep the translated messages unpublished until we have the whole process done, so users won't see it online till that.
 
And for the sake of translation, we restrain the use of automated translators to the minimum, so even complete, the piece you sent need some reviewing before it can go online. It can take some time, but thanks for your help :)
 
Cleber
 

2008/5/14 Marcos <map42@...>:
If the translation has been made, why I can´t see in the help audacity ? .
 
And the part that I did it was complete.
 
                               Abs, Marcos
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] Translation

Hey there!
 
The website translation for brazilian portuguese is almost done, I just wanted to make it a hundred percent ok before commiting it online.

But any help is appreciated! If you want to review the translated version, I will be glad to send you the file.

Abraços
Cleber


Marcos Antonio Passarelli escreveu:
Some parts to portuguese translation. It´s my first contribution
 
                                           Marconis

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Marcos Antonio Passarelli
Re: Translation
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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
Do you speak portuguese ?
 
                      Marcos
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] Translation

Hi Marcos,
 
After a translation is done and reviewed, it needs to be published (and saved of course :) ) to get online. Since it's a manual job, it's better to keep the translated messages unpublished until we have the whole process done, so users won't see it online till that.
 
And for the sake of translation, we restrain the use of automated translators to the minimum, so even complete, the piece you sent need some reviewing before it can go online. It can take some time, but thanks for your help :)
 
Cleber
 

2008/5/14 Marcos <map42@...>:
If the translation has been made, why I can´t see in the help audacity ? .
 
And the part that I did it was complete.
 
                               Abs, Marcos
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] Translation

Hey there!
 
The website translation for brazilian portuguese is almost done, I just wanted to make it a hundred percent ok before commiting it online.

But any help is appreciated! If you want to review the translated version, I will be glad to send you the file.

Abraços
Cleber


Marcos Antonio Passarelli escreveu:
Some parts to portuguese translation. It´s my first contribution
 
                                           Marconis

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Cleber Tavano-2
Are the translator's dream in closed source?
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Hi everybody!

Have you seen this site from Microsoft? It's called Microsoft
Terminology Community Forum. It's a site with all the translated strings
from MS products, in  english, with a brief description for EVERYONE,
the translated form and a button where we can suggest a better
translation for any string.

Isn't this a translator's dream? A site where we can keep in touch with
our users with an organized and centralized workflow...

http://members.microsoft.com/wincg/pt-br/mtcf_glossary.aspx?s=4&letter=A&langid=1219&filter=0


I hope that one day we could get something like this using PO files,
since it has space for descriptions, comments, and everything else. What
it doesn't have is a web 2.0 service like that... what a shame :_(

Cleber

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Vaughan Johnson
Re: Are the translator's dream in closed source?
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Thanks, Cleber. Forwarding to the -devel list for consideration there.
- Vaughan


Cleber Tavano wrote:

> Hi everybody!
>
> Have you seen this site from Microsoft? It's called Microsoft
> Terminology Community Forum. It's a site with all the translated strings
> from MS products, in  english, with a brief description for EVERYONE,
> the translated form and a button where we can suggest a better
> translation for any string.
>
> Isn't this a translator's dream? A site where we can keep in touch with
> our users with an organized and centralized workflow...
>
> http://members.microsoft.com/wincg/pt-br/mtcf_glossary.aspx?s=4&letter=A&langid=1219&filter=0
>
>
> I hope that one day we could get something like this using PO files,
> since it has space for descriptions, comments, and everything else. What
> it doesn't have is a web 2.0 service like that... what a shame :_(
>
> Cleber
>
>  

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F Wolff-2
Re: Are the translator's dream in closed source?
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On Wo, 2008-05-14 at 23:28 -0300, Cleber Tavano wrote:

> Hi everybody!
>
> Have you seen this site from Microsoft? It's called Microsoft
> Terminology Community Forum. It's a site with all the translated strings
> from MS products, in  english, with a brief description for EVERYONE,
> the translated form and a button where we can suggest a better
> translation for any string.
>
> Isn't this a translator's dream? A site where we can keep in touch with
> our users with an organized and centralized workflow...
>
> http://members.microsoft.com/wincg/pt-br/mtcf_glossary.aspx?s=4&letter=A&langid=1219&filter=0
>
>
> I hope that one day we could get something like this using PO files,
> since it has space for descriptions, comments, and everything else. What
> it doesn't have is a web 2.0 service like that... what a shame :_(
>
> Cleber

Pootle can be used for something like this. Using the suggestions
feature, anybody can suggest a change for a translation, which can
include your program translations and the terminology lists used for
translation. This can then become a much easier way to report
translation bugs, than having to use a normal bug tracker. There is also
opportunity to store comments per translation.

Friedel


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Samuel Murray (Groenkloof)
Re: Are the translator's dream in closed source?
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G'day Cleber and Friedel

F Wolff wrote:

> On Wo, 2008-05-14 at 23:28 -0300, Cleber Tavano wrote:

>> Isn't this a translator's dream? A site where we can keep in touch with
>> our users with an organized and centralized workflow...

>> I hope that one day we could get something like this using PO files,
>> since it has space for descriptions, comments, and everything else. What
>> it doesn't have is a web 2.0 service like that... what a shame :_(

> Pootle can be used for something like this. Using the suggestions
> feature, anybody can suggest a change for a translation, which can
> include your program translations and the terminology lists used for
> translation.

Yes, why didn't I think of it?  If you treat the translation of a
glossary in the same way as the translation of software, you can use
Pootle to translate it.  All it would take is for someone to create a
terminology list that is specific to Audacity, and it can be loaded into
Pootle.  You can see what Pootle looks like, here:

http://pootle.locamotion.org/af/aoi/translate.html?fuzzy=1&editing=1&blank=1

(In the example given you can see an edit box but you won't be able to
add or suggest a translation because you're not logged in, but Pootle
can be set up to accept suggestions from anyone, logged in or not).

The next question is, how would one create an Audacity-specific
glossary?  As it happens, I created one myself some time ago, by taking
all words in the audacity.pot file that occur more 5 or more times, and
then removing the most common English words.  The result is this:

adjust, aiff, align, aligned, alt, amplitude, apply, applying, audacity,
audio, aup, auto, automatically, cache, cd, changed, changes, channel,
channels, cleanspeech, click, clicking, clip, clipboard, clipping,
commands, convert, created, ctrl, currently, cursor, data, decay,
default, delete, deleted, detected, device, directory, disk, display,
dominic, don, download, drag, dtmf, duration, edit, editing, editor,
effects, encoder, envelope, export, exporting, extend, fade, file,
files, fit, flac, focus, focused, folder, format, formats, fps, frames,
frequency, generate, generating, generator, genre, href, import,
importing, input, invalid, kbps, keyboard, labeled, labels, lame,
latency, loading, mac, max, maximum, mazzoni, menu, message, metadata,
meter, midi, minimum, minutes, mode, mono, moved, mp2, mp3, multi,
multiple, normalize, nyquist, offset, ogg, ok, opening, options, output,
pcm, playback, playing, playthrough, plug, preferences, preview,
project, projects, recorded, recording, recover, redo, regions, removal,
reset, sample, samples, saving, seconds, seek, selected, set, settings,
setup, shift, shortcuts, skip, slider, snap, sorry, sourceforge,
specify, spectrum, spike, stereo, supported, tempo, temporary, text,
theme, threshold, toolbar, tracks, unable, uncompressed, undo, version,
vertically, vorbis, wav, wiki, windows, zoom.

Obviously there are a few terms that needn't be there and that should be
weeded out, but it is a good average of the technical terms in Audacity.

If the above is put in a PO file and translated in Pootle, then it will
also help translators because the terms will appear automatically while
they translate software (if, for example, they're translating Audacity
in Pootle).

Samuel

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Cleber Tavano-2
Re: Are the translator's dreams in closed source?
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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
Hi Samuel,

Well I already have a list of technical terms that needed some research to find the proper translation, 'compiled' in a small text file, like 'decay and delay' and some other terms that repeat all over the translated file, to help me remember and for a better term consistency.


Yes, why didn't I think of it?  
I had the same feeling the first time I saw that MS site! :))) Something like "oh gosh, I work with this for years, how come that I never had this idea?"

If you treat the translation of a 
glossary in the same way as the translation of software, you can use 
Pootle to translate it.  
  
In your proposal, we would have a po file with the audacity-specific terms, available online so people can suggest different or better translations for that terms? Did I get it right?
The next question is, how would one create an Audacity-specific 
glossary?  As it happens, I created one myself some time ago, by taking 
all words in the audacity.pot file that occur more 5 or more times, and 
then removing the most common English words.  The result is this:
  
Maybe that's a nice place to start with. I would only add extremely-technical terms like pitch, range, sample rate, threshold, endianess... So that people that has the technical knowledge but don't want to get directly involved  with the translation will  be able to contribute easily. And we know, the easier it gets, we have greater chances to have more feedback from the users, which is another of our main issues.

I would like to try that. How can I help?

Are people responsible for other translations interested too?

cleber

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Tino Meinen-2
Re: Are the translator's dreams in closed source?
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Op vrijdag 16-05-2008 om 21:43 uur [tijdzone -0300], schreef Cleber
Tavano:
> I would only add extremely-technical terms like pitch, range, sample
> rate, threshold, endianess... So that people that has the technical
> knowledge but don't want to get directly involved  with the
> translation will  be able to contribute easily.

The danger of letting people with technical knowledge translate
technical terms is that they usually work with specialized software,
often in the English language. They would argue that terms like 'pitch'
and 'range' should not be translated, because these are 'technical
terms'.

Tino Meinen


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Kevin Brubeck Unhammer-2
Re: Are the translator's dreams in closed source?
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2008/5/17, Tino Meinen <tino.meinen@...>:

> Op vrijdag 16-05-2008 om 21:43 uur [tijdzone -0300], schreef Cleber
>  Tavano:
>
> > I would only add extremely-technical terms like pitch, range, sample
>  > rate, threshold, endianess... So that people that has the technical
>  > knowledge but don't want to get directly involved  with the
>  > translation will  be able to contribute easily.
>
>
> The danger of letting people with technical knowledge translate
>  technical terms is that they usually work with specialized software,
>  often in the English language. They would argue that terms like 'pitch'
>  and 'range' should not be translated, because these are 'technical
>  terms'.

But sometimes it helps having some way of communicating with people
with technical knowledge; certain terms (eg. in Norwegian) _do_ have
specific translations that are hard to find in regular dictionaries,
they might not look very much like the English terms, but are in
common use as translations among those who work with audio. (One just
has to not be swayed by the people who want to keep every technical
term in English.)

Also, I don't think we as translators should be so sure that our
non-technical strings are translated as well as they could be
translated; why not let every string be open to suggestions for
improvement?


--
Kevin Brubeck Unhammer

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Samuel Murray (Groenkloof)
Re: Are the translator's dreams in closed source?
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Tino Meinen wrote:

> The danger of letting people with technical knowledge translate
> technical terms is that they usually work with specialized software,
> often in the English language. They would argue that terms like 'pitch'
> and 'range' should not be translated, because these are 'technical
> terms'.

I don't think such an approach would have an effect on glossary
management.  If the chief translator or supervising translation team in
a language believe that some terms should not be translated, they can
put that information in the glossary also.

Samuel

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Richard Ash (audacity-help)
Re: [Audacity-devel] Are the translator's dream in closed source?
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On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 09:26 +0200, Markus Meyer wrote:
> I don't know the "Microsoft Terminology Community Forum", but there is
> for example Launchpad (originally by Ubuntu), which we could use for
> translations. It support Wiki-style community-based translation and I
> guess it works well with PO files.

And (as came up on -translation) Pootle:
http://pootle.locamotion.org/

Either way the question comes up do we try to run our own server or join
an existing site? I'm in favour of the latter, both on the grounds that
it makes life rather easier for us, and because it channels traffic to
other translation projects from audacity.

As I see it we need a couple of things technically to make this work:
* a way of synchronising the untranslated strings from the audacity CVS
source code into the system. This ideally should also make a .pot file
available for anyone who prefers the existing toolchain.
* A way of submitting .po files into the system when they become
available
* A way to synchronise the translations from the system back into .po
files in audacity CVS in order to do releases.

I suspect that much of this is already in place in principal, but I
think it's important we get it working before committing to using such a
system. For this reason I'm suggesting that we don't try to do anything
for the 1.3.6 alpha release cycle over the summer, but look at what we
might do for this autumn's releases onwards.

Richard


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Samuel Murray (Groenkloof)
Re: [Audacity-devel] Are the translator's dream in closed source?
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G'day Richard

By the way, I'm the project leader for Decathlon, a project that aims to
help create more language teams for multiple software translation
projects.  We use the locamotion.org Pootle server and I'm sure we/they
can host Audacity on it too.

Allow me to make some comments on your mail.

> As I see it we need a couple of things technically to make this work:
> * a way of synchronising the untranslated strings from the audacity CVS
> source code into the system. This ideally should also make a .pot file
> available for anyone who prefers the existing toolchain.

Well, we can set up Pootle to grab a POT file from anywhere, including
CVS and SVN.  So if you can find a way to generate the latest POT file,
then Pootle can checkout regularly (once a week perhaps) to ensure that
it has the latest POT file and that the PO files its translators are
busy translating, are based on the latest POT file.

> * A way of submitting .po files into the system when they become
> available

Pootle generates PO files from the POT file.  Translators then translate
the PO files.  Whenever a new POT file becomes available, the PO files
are updated with the latest strings and the existing translations are
merged into the PO files.  However, if there are existing PO files from
*outside* the Pootle system, they can be uploaded by translators
themselves (if they are granted sufficient rights).  When uploading an
old PO file, you can choose to either overwrite the PO file in Pootle
completely, or to translate only those strings that are empty (and where
conflicts occur, offer the old translations as suggestions).

> * A way to synchronise the translations from the system back into .po
> files in audacity CVS in order to do releases.

There are two ways:
* Pootle can be set up to commit the PO files via SVN or CVS (although
there are a few requirements for that, and it may be best to ask about
it on the Pootle mailing list, as I'm no expert on versioning systems)
* Translators (or anyone, for that matter) can download the latest PO
file via their browser at any time, and submit it to you manually.

Samuel

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Cleber Tavano-2
Re: [Audacity-devel] Are the translator's dream in closed source?
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Hi Samuel,

> G'day Richard
>
> By the way, I'm the project leader for Decathlon, a project that aims to
> help create more language teams for multiple software translation
> projects.  We use the locamotion.org Pootle server and I'm sure we/they
> can host Audacity on it too.
>  
As for Decathlon, there were no brazilian portuguese translations to be
made there, so unfortunately I couldn't join you in this project .
> * Pootle can be set up to commit the PO files via SVN or CVS (although
> there are a few requirements for that, and it may be best to ask about
> it on the Pootle mailing list, as I'm no expert on versioning systems)
> * Translators (or anyone, for that matter) can download the latest PO
> file via their browser at any time, and submit it to you manually.
>
>  
It seems that pootle are quite capable of keeping updated versions of
pot/po files from CVS.

It would be a nice addition for Audacity's translations effort to keep
everything up to date and organized. And easier, by what some other
translators are saying here in this list also.

But the most important part is if pootle would let us have an online
service/site where users are allowed to suggest new or better
translations for our strings...

My suggestion is a site with 6 fields:

4 non public editable, the same it is by now:
1- original string
2- comments on original (where is used, context)
3- translated string
4- comments on translated string (by the translator)

And 2 public-editable fields:
1 - publicly suggested translation (just the translated string)
2 - comments on publicly suggested translation (a larger field where
people could discuss why is that a better translation, etc.)

Using pootle what we can do is: Select the commonest and most technical
terms in a separate PO, publish it on pootle and let people opine on
that, using the second PO file as a 'sandbox' where opinions may or may
not be accepted.

It sounds nice as for now, but aren't there a way to add more fields in
the pootle service so we can have a definitive solution?

Cleber

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Samuel Murray (Groenkloof)
Re: [Audacity-devel] Are the translator's dream in closed source?
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