Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS

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Mark D-4
Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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First, the list of changes from the wiki:
  • Added support for Change Speed.
    • Slowing down a section in a wave track adds silence to linked wave tracks.
    • Speeding up a section adds silence to that wave track.
    • Labels shift accordingly.
  • Added support for Generate functions. Chirp, DTMF, Noise, Tone and Silence all behave as Pastes.
  • Fixed linking button not toggling states (Push down/pop-up).
  • Turned linking on by default.
  • Renamed menu item from "Link Wave and Label Tracks" to "Link Audio and Label Tracks".
  • Fixed bug related to cuts/deletes from label tracks. Selecting only a region in a label track and deleting it will delete that region in linked wave tracks. Selecting a label track in addition to a wave track is now the same as selecting only the wave track. If linking is off, the previous behaviour is used.
  • Fixed Cut behaviour when selecting multiple tracks. It previously copied one track, then ran the group clear, shifting the track. The rest of the copy calls would be copying the wrong selection. OnCut() no longer calls the wave track's cut functions (which call copy->clear), but instead calls the copy and clear functions directly.
The way I handle Change Speed may not be done. I was talking to Martyn, and he said that the length of the new track has an extra 10 samples at the end that may or may not be used. I'm by no means an expert on audio/signals so I don't really understand the nuts and bolts of the algorithm. So is the usage pattern of those samples the same for all tracks? Like, if I drag a selection over 10 tracks, and run Change Speed on them, will they all either use the extra 10 samples, or all use no extra samples, but no mixing and matching (five use it and five don't)? Also, isn't 10 samples a matter of microseconds with regular sampling rates?

The problem with getting the length of the track after it's been adjusted and using that is that I do the shifting/inserting inside Process(), and not ProcessOne(), to avoid it being run multiple times. So, I'm anticipating the final size.

Any opinions on changing OnCut()? It was a lot easier to do that than try to figure out some way to intercept the problematic cases after they've been called.

Again, haven't built this on Windows/OS X.

James: Thanks for the suggestion on simplifying the shift cases. I like it. =)

Mark
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Martyn Shaw-2
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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Hi Mark

Nice one!  I've been playing with it and functionally it's 'looking'
good! But 'looks' aren't everything.  More below...

Mark D wrote:
> First, the list of changes from the wiki:
>
>     * Added support for Change Speed.
>           o Slowing down a section in a wave track adds silence to
>             linked wave tracks.
>           o Speeding up a section adds silence to that wave track.
>           o Labels shift accordingly.

Isn't sample accurate, see below..

>     * Added support for Generate functions. Chirp, DTMF, Noise, Tone and
>       Silence all behave as Pastes.

Seem to insert and move labels with sample accuracy.

>     * Fixed linking button not toggling states (Push down/pop-up).

Good.   But the 'link' on the button could be better visually I think.
  First time I saw it I thought it was a broken image.  Any
pixel-pusher out there want to suggest a better version?

Also, status of menu item and button are not consistent (press one,
the other doesn't change).  Needs some of that 'rebuild menus'
'rebuild toolbar' stuff?

>     * Turned linking on by default.
>     * Renamed menu item from "Link Wave and Label Tracks" to "Link Audio
>       and Label Tracks".
>     * Fixed bug related to cuts/deletes from label tracks. Selecting
>       only a region in a label track and deleting it will delete that
>       region in linked wave tracks. Selecting a label track in addition
>       to a wave track is now the same as selecting only the wave track.
>       If linking is off, the previous behaviour is used.

I don't remember the previous behaviour but... with linking off,
selecting a region within label X and pressing delete is now causing
other labels to the right to move left but the end of label X is
staying in the same place - I think this needs fixing (should be easy).

>     * Fixed Cut behaviour when selecting multiple tracks. It previously
>       copied one track, then ran the group clear, shifting the track.
>       The rest of the copy calls would be copying the wrong selection.
>       OnCut() no longer calls the wave track's cut functions (which call
>       copy->clear), but instead calls the copy and clear functions
>       directly.

I'm not sure I follow you, but Cut does not move the labels; is this
by design?

> The way I handle Change Speed may not be done. I was talking to Martyn,
> and he said that the length of the new track has an extra 10 samples at
> the end that may or may not be used.

'may or may not' is crucial here...

> I'm by no means an expert on
> audio/signals so I don't really understand the nuts and bolts of the
> algorithm. So is the usage pattern of those samples the same for all
> tracks? Like, if I drag a selection over 10 tracks, and run Change Speed
> on them, will they all either use the extra 10 samples, or all use no
> extra samples, but no mixing and matching (five use it and five don't)?
> Also, isn't 10 samples a matter of microseconds with regular sampling rates?

I think it will be consistent across all tracks (assuming they have
the same sample rate).

I like to see all these things sample-accurate (which you seem to have
achieved with the bits above).  Here it isn't though.  Here is a quick
test case:
Start Audacity
Generate tone 10000Hz, 1s
Skip to end
Generate silence 1s
Skip to end
Generate tone 10000Hz, 1s
Select the first tone and label 'one' (set the Selection Toolbar mode
to 'hh:mm:ss + samples' and make sure you have exactly (to the sample)
the first second selected)
Select the second tone and label 'two' (be exact again)
Click the 'one' label to select exactly the first second
ChangeSpeed to -80 (about 5 times as long)
(EffectChangeSpeed::ProcessOne li292 reports newLength to be
5.0001360544217688s = 5s + 6 samples)
Now zoom in repeatedly to the bit around the start of label 'two'
until you can see the samples.

If you see the same as me, the label and the start of the second tone
are off by 6 samples, which isn't good.  Note that newLength in
ProcessOne had it right, and that is what I suggested you use.  It
seems that the extra 10 samples catered for are sometimes used and
sometimes not, I have not looked into why that is and I don't think
you should either.  I think you should use what the effect is
reporting (whatever the effect is), otherwise you will have to delve
into all of them (even new ones that haven't been invented yet).

but I was going to bed an hour ago...

> The problem with getting the length of the track after it's been
> adjusted and using that is that I do the shifting/inserting inside
> Process(), and not ProcessOne(), to avoid it being run multiple times.
> So, I'm anticipating the final size.
>
> Any opinions on changing OnCut()? It was a lot easier to do that than
> try to figure out some way to intercept the problematic cases after
> they've been called.
>
> Again, haven't built this on Windows/OS X.

Above comments based on an unmodified Win build.

> James: Thanks for the suggestion on simplifying the shift cases. I like
> it. =)

Yeh!

TTFN
Martyn

> Mark
>
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Mark D-4
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Martyn Shaw <martynshaw99@...> wrote:

Good.   But the 'link' on the button could be better visually I think.
 First time I saw it I thought it was a broken image.  Any
pixel-pusher out there want to suggest a better version?

Definitely. I'm not exactly artistically inclined, so I just whipped something up...

 
>     * Turned linking on by default.
>     * Renamed menu item from "Link Wave and Label Tracks" to "Link Audio
>       and Label Tracks".
>     * Fixed bug related to cuts/deletes from label tracks. Selecting
>       only a region in a label track and deleting it will delete that
>       region in linked wave tracks. Selecting a label track in addition
>       to a wave track is now the same as selecting only the wave track.
>       If linking is off, the previous behaviour is used.

I don't remember the previous behaviour but... with linking off,
selecting a region within label X and pressing delete is now causing
other labels to the right to move left but the end of label X is
staying in the same place - I think this needs fixing (should be easy).

If linking is off, it executes the exact same code as before. I can change it to call my new label shifting functions, though.
 
>     * Fixed Cut behaviour when selecting multiple tracks. It previously
>       copied one track, then ran the group clear, shifting the track.
>       The rest of the copy calls would be copying the wrong selection.
>       OnCut() no longer calls the wave track's cut functions (which call
>       copy->clear), but instead calls the copy and clear functions
>       directly.

I'm not sure I follow you, but Cut does not move the labels; is this
by design?

Hmm, weird. Can't check it again right now, but I can't think of why it wouldn't work anymore. Could linking have still been off from testing the above (label track clears)?

I have some ideas about increasing the accuracy for change speed. I'll try rearranging some things, and hopefully I'll get it just right.

Mark

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Gale Andrews
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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| From "Mark D" <markpd@...>
| Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:27:10 -0400
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS

Hi Mark

> -  Added support for Change Speed.
> -  Slowing down a section in a wave track adds silence to linked wave tracks.
> -  Speeding up a section adds silence to that wave track.
> -  Labels shift accordingly.

Desyncing of labels occurs when speeding up or slowing if the selection
region includes a time region that the label inhabits (including the
case where all the audio track is selected).  I must admit I'm a little
fuzzy on what I would expect to happen in this situation. Can you
clarify?

Will you add support for Change Tempo? And what about Change Pitch
which does "slightly but significantly" alter the audio length  (enough
to be an audible desync in some cases).

Note that when linking is on, and if you have just track(s) with no
labels, Change Pitch and Change Tempo are now broken and don't do
what you ask (seem to add audio irrespective). Also when speeding
up, Change Speed adds a new, unwanted silent clip after the shortened
audio. I wouldn't have expected to have to turn linking off when I don't
have a label track?


> Fixed bug related to cuts/deletes from label tracks. Selecting only a region
> in a label track and deleting it will delete that region in linked wave
> tracks. Selecting a label track in addition to a wave track is now the
> same as selecting only the wave track. If linking is off, the previous
> behaviour is used.

Great!

Note we still have this issue:  'When audio/label track linkage is on,
pasting audio into multiple tracks inserts silence as well as the pasted
content.'''


Thanks

Gale



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Leland (AudacityTeam)
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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Martyn Shaw wrote:
>
>>     * Fixed linking button not toggling states (Push down/pop-up).
>
> Good.   But the 'link' on the button could be better visually I think.
>   First time I saw it I thought it was a broken image.  Any
> pixel-pusher out there want to suggest a better version?
>
I noticed this too, but only having the one semi-functional eyeball, I
just figured it was me.

But, what's funny is that it actually looks pretty good on
openSUSE...perfectly recognizable as 3 links of a chain.

Leland


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Gale Andrews
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| From Gale Andrews <gale@...>
| Fri, 04 Jul 2008 07:11:05 +0100
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
> Note that when linking is on, and if you have just track(s) with no
> labels, Change Pitch and Change Tempo are now broken and don't do
> what you ask (seem to add audio irrespective). Also when speeding
> up, Change Speed adds a new, unwanted silent clip after the shortened
> audio. I wouldn't have expected to have to turn linking off when I don't
> have a label track?

I noticed one other problem when linkage is on. When Cut Preview
(shortcut "c") reaches the preview after the intended cut, it does
not play the audio after the cut, but that of the cut itself.

Thanks

Gale

 

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Mark D-4
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 2:11 AM, Gale Andrews <gale@...> wrote:

| From "Mark D" <markpd@...>
| Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:27:10 -0400
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS

Hi Mark

> -  Added support for Change Speed.
> -  Slowing down a section in a wave track adds silence to linked wave tracks.
> -  Speeding up a section adds silence to that wave track.
> -  Labels shift accordingly.

Desyncing of labels occurs when speeding up or slowing if the selection
region includes a time region that the label inhabits (including the
case where all the audio track is selected).  I must admit I'm a little
fuzzy on what I would expect to happen in this situation. Can you
clarify?

It's just a bit right? Might be related to the 10 samples.
 
Will you add support for Change Tempo? And what about Change Pitch
which does "slightly but significantly" alter the audio length  (enough
to be an audible desync in some cases).

Don't know yet.
 
Also when speeding up, Change Speed adds a new, unwanted silent clip after the shortened
audio. I wouldn't have expected to have to turn linking off when I don't
have a label track?

That's by design, suggested by Richard. The condition for linking behaviour isn't that a label track exists, it's just that linking is enabled.
 

Mark


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Mark D-4
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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Made another commit. This one should be sample accurate. I also broke out the section that runs when you slow down audio into a member function of Effect.

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:20 AM, Gale Andrews <gale@...> wrote:

I noticed one other problem when linkage is on. When Cut Preview
(shortcut "c") reaches the preview after the intended cut, it does
not play the audio after the cut, but that of the cut itself.

I think this is another "clear->group clear->clear again" problem, similar to the issue that existed with cut. That is, you call a clear, which clears that selection in the calling track, in addition to linked tracks, and then you call clear from another track, thinking it hasn't been cleared yet (though it has, by the group clear).

I've thought about redeclaring Clear(double t0, double t1) to something like Clear(double t0, double t1, bool linked=true), where specifying false wouldn't execute the code that handles linking. That wouldn't be really helpful in this case though, since the tracks that call Clear are just of type Track, not WaveTrack.

In this case, I'd suggest disabling linking when OnPlayCutPreview() is called, and then re-enabling it when we're about to leave.

Mark

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Gale Andrews
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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| From "Mark D" <markpd@...>
| Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:21 -0400
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS

> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 2:11 AM, Gale Andrews <gale@...> wrote:
> >  > -  Added support for Change Speed.
> > > -  Slowing down a section in a wave track adds silence to linked wave tracks.
> >  > -  Speeding up a section adds silence to that wave track.
> >  > -  Labels shift accordingly.
> >
> >
> > Desyncing of labels occurs when speeding up or slowing if the selection
> >  region includes a time region that the label inhabits (including the
> >  case where all the audio track is selected).  I must admit I'm a little
> >  fuzzy on what I would expect to happen in this situation. Can you
> >  clarify?
>
> It's just a bit right? Might be related to the 10 samples.

Hi Mark

No it's not a sample error.

OK, consider this case. I've selected four seconds of audio in one
track:
http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/0044.png

Now I slow the selection down by 35% in Change Speed: looks good,
insofar as the "ere" label sticks with the de-amplified section:
http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/0043.png 

I undo that, and now make a larger selection extending beyond the "ere"
label:  
http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/0042.png

and slow it down by 35%:
http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/0041.png

Note in the second track that the "ere" label no longer aligns with the
start of the de-amplified section. So, should the silence be added in
front of the starting point of the selection, rather than after it? Does
adding silence make "audio" sense when you listen to it, which will
give a pretty significant "dropout" effect?  Is it better to simply
apply the speed change to each track?  

>
> > Will you add support for Change Tempo? And what about Change Pitch
> >  which does "slightly but significantly" alter the audio length  (enough
> >  to be an audible desync in some cases).
>
> Don't know yet.

I do think support should be added at some stage, even if after GSoC.


> >  Also when speeding up, Change Speed adds a new, unwanted silent clip after
> >  the shortened audio. I wouldn't have expected to have to turn linking off when
> >  I don't have a label track?
> >
>
> > That's by design, suggested by Richard. The condition for linking behaviour isn't
> > that a label track exists, it's just that linking is enabled.

Can this be changed/ is there any reason not to? It seems very
counter-intuitive to me. I'd want linking on, but would not need labels
all the time. So I really would not want the extra step of having to
turn linkage off to avoid this and the other unexpected results
I 've noted. If there are no label tracks, there is nothing to link?

And even where I speed up an audio track with no label track
in place, does the added silent clip help if I subsequently decide to
add a label.

These will appear as serious bugs to the user I think, because
they won't be expecting to have to turn the linkage button off
when they have no label tracks. I think the wording would have
to be changed to "Audio Tracks behave as if linked" or somesuch,
because that's what it boils down to.


Thanks


Gale


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Gale Andrews
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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| From Martyn Shaw <martynshaw99@...>
| Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:06:14 +0100
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS

> >     * Fixed bug related to cuts/deletes from label tracks. Selecting
> >       only a region in a label track and deleting it will delete that
> >       region in linked wave tracks. Selecting a label track in addition
> >       to a wave track is now the same as selecting only the wave track.
> >       If linking is off, the previous behaviour is used.
>
> I don't remember the previous behaviour but... with linking off,
> selecting a region within label X and pressing delete is now causing
> other labels to the right to move left but the end of label X is
> staying in the same place - I think this needs fixing (should be easy).

Can you give the steps for this please Martyn, as I can't quite see what
you mean. I think label X denotes a selection region (?) but if I select
a region extending up to half way through such a label and delete,
label X moves back and the region it denotes seems to be correctly
reduced.


Thanks

Gale

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Richard Ash (audacity-help)
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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On Fri, 2008-07-04 at 19:24 +0100, Gale Andrews wrote:

> > >  Also when speeding up, Change Speed adds a new, unwanted silent clip after
> > >  the shortened audio. I wouldn't have expected to have to turn linking off when
> > >  I don't have a label track?
> > >
> >
> > > That's by design, suggested by Richard. The condition for linking behaviour isn't
> > > that a label track exists, it's just that linking is enabled.
>
> Can this be changed/ is there any reason not to? It seems very
> counter-intuitive to me. I'd want linking on, but would not need labels
> all the time.
That might be what I wrote, but it wasn't what I had in mind. If there
isn't a label track, then the tracks are not linked, and de facto
linking is off.

So the behaviour should be as though linking is off whenever the
arrangement of tracks doesn't allow any links to be made.

> And even where I speed up an audio track with no label track
> in place, does the added silent clip help if I subsequently decide to
> add a label.
It doesn't. The silent clip is there because something else is present
and linked to the track being modified, and to do otherwise would cause
the two tracks to come out of sync. If there is no sync to maintain
(e.g. because no sync group exists), then there is no point to the
silence.

Richard


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Mark D-4
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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OK, so apparently people don't want linking without label tracks? I'll put that in then, unless someone disagrees.

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Gale Andrews <gale@...> wrote:

http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/0044.png

http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/0043.png

http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/0042.png

http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/0041.png

Note in the second track that the "ere" label no longer aligns with the
start of the de-amplified section. So, should the silence be added in
front of the starting point of the selection, rather than after it? Does
adding silence make "audio" sense when you listen to it, which will
give a pretty significant "dropout" effect?  Is it better to simply
apply the speed change to each track?

OK, I know what you're talking about.

This is an interesting thing that I thought about, but I really don't know what the "right" solution is. Adding silence keeps wave tracks in sync with each other, but it can't keep those wave tracks in sync with labels. The label shifting keeps the labels in sync with the track that's getting slowed down/sped up, not the other tracks.

Mark

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Martyn Shaw-2
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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Gale Andrews wrote:

> | From Martyn Shaw <martynshaw99@...>
> | Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:06:14 +0100
> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
>>>     * Fixed bug related to cuts/deletes from label tracks. Selecting
>>>       only a region in a label track and deleting it will delete that
>>>       region in linked wave tracks. Selecting a label track in addition
>>>       to a wave track is now the same as selecting only the wave track.
>>>       If linking is off, the previous behaviour is used.
>> I don't remember the previous behaviour but... with linking off,
>> selecting a region within label X and pressing delete is now causing
>> other labels to the right to move left but the end of label X is
>> staying in the same place - I think this needs fixing (should be easy).
>
> Can you give the steps for this please Martyn, as I can't quite see what
> you mean. I think label X denotes a selection region (?) but if I select
> a region extending up to half way through such a label and delete,
> label X moves back and the region it denotes seems to be correctly
> reduced.

Maybe you need to select the wave and the label tracks.  Does this help?

Before cut
http://mjshaw.at-uclan.com/audacity/window000.png

After cut
http://mjshaw.at-uclan.com/audacity/window001.png

Martyn

> Thanks
>
> Gale
>

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Martyn Shaw-2
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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Mark D wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Martyn Shaw <martynshaw99@...
> <mailto:martynshaw99@...>> wrote:
...

>      >     * Fixed Cut behaviour when selecting multiple tracks. It
>     previously
>      >       copied one track, then ran the group clear, shifting the track.
>      >       The rest of the copy calls would be copying the wrong
>     selection.
>      >       OnCut() no longer calls the wave track's cut functions
>     (which call
>      >       copy->clear), but instead calls the copy and clear functions
>      >       directly.
>
>     I'm not sure I follow you, but Cut does not move the labels; is this
>     by design?
>
>
> Hmm, weird. Can't check it again right now, but I can't think of why it
> wouldn't work anymore. Could linking have still been off from testing
> the above (label track clears)?

I think you are correct, I see the labels moving correctly with 'cut'
now!  Sorry!

Martyn

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Mark D-4
Re: Sticky Tracks - Change Speed and more, now in CVS
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On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Martyn Shaw <martynshaw99@...> wrote:


Mark D wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Martyn Shaw <martynshaw99@...
> <mailto:martynshaw99@...>> wrote:
...

>      >     * Fixed Cut behaviour when selecting multiple tracks. It
>     previously
>      >       copied one track, then ran the group clear, shifting the track.
>      >       The rest of the copy calls would be copying the wrong
>     selection.
>      >       OnCut() no longer calls the wave track's cut functions
>     (which call
>      >       copy->clear), but instead calls the copy and clear functions
>      >       directly.
>
>     I'm not sure I follow you, but Cut does not move the labels; is this
>     by design?
>
>
> Hmm, weird. Can't check it again right now, but I can't think of why it
> wouldn't work anymore. Could linking have still been off from testing
> the above (label track clears)?

I think you are correct, I see the labels moving correctly with 'cut'
now!  Sorry!

Phew! I was hoping that wasn't a Windows-only bug. =P

Mark

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Martyn Shaw-2
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Mark D wrote:
> Made another commit. This one should be sample accurate.

Excellent!  It's gratifying when it's spot-on, isn't it?

Martyn


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Gale Andrews
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| From Martyn Shaw <