Spatial Data Formats Best Practice

[GisDotNet-2]

I have worked with ESRI web technology for the past 9 years and am getting up to speed with MapGuide Open Source 2.0.1 and the FDO providers. While there are numerous FDO providers, I would like to know what the preferred or best practice data format is for MapGuide OS 2.0.1? My overall preference is to go with a RDBMS spatial solution like ArcSDE or PostGIS; however, I am completely flexible. I have gone through dll hell trying to get the PostGIS FDO provider configured without success and ArcSDE comes at a steep price.

The thoughts and education of the community are greatly appreciated!

Aaron

[Jason Birch]

For data management, an RDBMS is of course preferred.  

Other options to ArcSDE/PostGIS would be something like SQL Server 2008
(cheaper than ArcSDE if you don't need the bells and whistles) or
something like the Oracle Express Edition (free, but with a rather
painful curve as you scale up).  I'd encourage you not to give up on
getting PostGIS to work.  Often you'll see that something like the wrong
version of the ssleay library is located elsewhere in the filesystem,
but I've always been able to get it working by putting the required dlls
in the FDO installation directory.

My preference in this regard though is to optimize for performance, and
if you do not need up-to-the-minute currency or web-based editing you
can see considerable performance gains by going to SDF or (if you're
feeling adventurous) SQLite as the data storage format.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: GISDOTNET
Subject: [mapguide-users] Spatial Data Formats Best Practice


I have worked with ESRI web technology for the past 9 years and am
getting up
to speed with MapGuide Open Source 2.0.1 and the FDO providers. While
there
are numerous FDO providers, I would like to know what the preferred or
best
practice data format is for MapGuide OS 2.0.1? My overall preference is
to
go with a RDBMS spatial solution like ArcSDE or PostGIS; however, I am
completely flexible. I have gone through dll hell trying to get the
PostGIS
FDO provider configured without success and ArcSDE comes at a steep
price.

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users

[GisDotNet-2]

Jason,

I appreciate your thoughts and advise. For one layer I need to be able to push coordinates into a database and have those coordinates dynamically displayed as points on the map. I'm not sure if MGOS can dynamically generate points from an x/y table or if it would need to be a featureclass that would be edited through the application. The other layers could reside as SDF, but how do I migrate from an ESRI personal geodatabase, shapefile, or ArcSDE, as these will be the primary data formats I will be receiving from my clients. Lastly, are you aware of a PostGIS FDO document that defines what information needs to be entered into the connection properties, specifically, Service and DataStore?

Aaron
 

JasonBirch wrote:

For data management, an RDBMS is of course preferred.  

Other options to ArcSDE/PostGIS would be something like SQL Server 2008
(cheaper than ArcSDE if you don't need the bells and whistles) or
something like the Oracle Express Edition (free, but with a rather
painful curve as you scale up).  I'd encourage you not to give up on
getting PostGIS to work.  Often you'll see that something like the wrong
version of the ssleay library is located elsewhere in the filesystem,
but I've always been able to get it working by putting the required dlls
in the FDO installation directory.

My preference in this regard though is to optimize for performance, and
if you do not need up-to-the-minute currency or web-based editing you
can see considerable performance gains by going to SDF or (if you're
feeling adventurous) SQLite as the data storage format.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: GISDOTNET
Subject: [mapguide-users] Spatial Data Formats Best Practice


I have worked with ESRI web technology for the past 9 years and am
getting up
to speed with MapGuide Open Source 2.0.1 and the FDO providers. While
there
are numerous FDO providers, I would like to know what the preferred or
best
practice data format is for MapGuide OS 2.0.1? My overall preference is
to
go with a RDBMS spatial solution like ArcSDE or PostGIS; however, I am
completely flexible. I have gone through dll hell trying to get the
PostGIS
FDO provider configured without success and ArcSDE comes at a steep
price.

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[e-mail]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users

[GisDotNet-2]

Jason,

I think I answered part of my own question...Service=<Database Name> and DataStore=<schema name>. I am now able to connect to the PostGIS database and see my featureclasses; however, I notice that when I create a layer, MapGuideStudio doesn't seem to recognize the geometry and I am bale to set symbology for line, point, and polygon regardless of the actual geometry of the feature selected. I had the same issue when I connected to the data as a personal geodatabase using the FDO OGR provider. Any ideas?

Any other advice on converting from ESRI formats to SDF would be greatly appreciated.

Aaron

JasonBirch wrote:

For data management, an RDBMS is of course preferred.  

Other options to ArcSDE/PostGIS would be something like SQL Server 2008
(cheaper than ArcSDE if you don't need the bells and whistles) or
something like the Oracle Express Edition (free, but with a rather
painful curve as you scale up).  I'd encourage you not to give up on
getting PostGIS to work.  Often you'll see that something like the wrong
version of the ssleay library is located elsewhere in the filesystem,
but I've always been able to get it working by putting the required dlls
in the FDO installation directory.

My preference in this regard though is to optimize for performance, and
if you do not need up-to-the-minute currency or web-based editing you
can see considerable performance gains by going to SDF or (if you're
feeling adventurous) SQLite as the data storage format.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: GISDOTNET
Subject: [mapguide-users] Spatial Data Formats Best Practice


I have worked with ESRI web technology for the past 9 years and am
getting up
to speed with MapGuide Open Source 2.0.1 and the FDO providers. While
there
are numerous FDO providers, I would like to know what the preferred or
best
practice data format is for MapGuide OS 2.0.1? My overall preference is
to
go with a RDBMS spatial solution like ArcSDE or PostGIS; however, I am
completely flexible. I have gone through dll hell trying to get the
PostGIS
FDO provider configured without success and ArcSDE comes at a steep
price.

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[e-mail]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users

[Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S]

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

You don't have to convert, MapGuide uses FDO:
http://fdo.osgeo.org/OSProviderOverviews.html

So, you can use ArcSDE and SHP files as they are.
If you _want_ to convert to SDF, you can try FDO2FDO:
http://www.sl-king.com/Fdo2Fdo/download/download.html

I belive ArcSDE is capable of saving as SHP files.
You can load SHP files through MapGuide Studio, or access them directly.

I know the OGR provider reports having point+line+polygon if the table
contains a single polygon. I assume it is the same for PostGIS.

This makes MapGuide Studio set up styles for all three types.
Trying to remove the style, leaves an ugly red cross in the legend.

You can use MapGuide Maestro to select what items should be avalible.
Once done, you can re-open the layer in MapGuide Studio as normal:
http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/maestro



GISDOTNET skrev:

Jason,

I think I answered part of my own question...Service=<Database Name> and
DataStore=<schema name>. I am now able to connect to the PostGIS database
and see my featureclasses; however, I notice that when I create a layer,
MapGuideStudio doesn't seem to recognize the geometry and I am bale to set
symbology for line, point, and polygon regardless of the actual geometry of
the feature selected. I had the same issue when I connected to the data as a
personal geodatabase using the FDO OGR provider. Any ideas?

Any other advice on converting from ESRI formats to SDF would be greatly
appreciated.

Aaron


JasonBirch wrote:
  

For data management, an RDBMS is of course preferred.  

Other options to ArcSDE/PostGIS would be something like SQL Server 2008
(cheaper than ArcSDE if you don't need the bells and whistles) or
something like the Oracle Express Edition (free, but with a rather
painful curve as you scale up).  I'd encourage you not to give up on
getting PostGIS to work.  Often you'll see that something like the wrong
version of the ssleay library is located elsewhere in the filesystem,
but I've always been able to get it working by putting the required dlls
in the FDO installation directory.

My preference in this regard though is to optimize for performance, and
if you do not need up-to-the-minute currency or web-based editing you
can see considerable performance gains by going to SDF or (if you're
feeling adventurous) SQLite as the data storage format.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: GISDOTNET
Subject: [mapguide-users] Spatial Data Formats Best Practice


I have worked with ESRI web technology for the past 9 years and am
getting up
to speed with MapGuide Open Source 2.0.1 and the FDO providers. While
there
are numerous FDO providers, I would like to know what the preferred or
best
practice data format is for MapGuide OS 2.0.1? My overall preference is
to
go with a RDBMS spatial solution like ArcSDE or PostGIS; however, I am
completely flexible. I have gone through dll hell trying to get the
PostGIS
FDO provider configured without success and ArcSDE comes at a steep
price.

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users


    

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users

[GisDotNet-2]

Kenneth,

Thanks for the response. I am using FDO which is how I got the OGR and PostGIS providers configured. It's great that I don't have to convert; however, I started this thread to determine which format, if any, was preferred or best practice for use with MGOS from a performance, functionality, usability, etc. standpoint.

What do you mean by "single polygon" when you wrote "I know the OGR provider reports having point+line+polygon if the table contains a single polygon." The table is nothing but polygons, or lines, or points. Shouldn't the OGR or PostGIS provider be able to distinguish the geometry from the designated geometry column? I'll look into MapGuide Maestro and see if that helps.

I appreciate the education.

Aaron

Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S wrote:

You don't have to convert, MapGuide uses FDO:
http://fdo.osgeo.org/OSProviderOverviews.html

So, you can use ArcSDE and SHP files as they are.
If you _want_ to convert to SDF, you can try FDO2FDO:
http://www.sl-king.com/Fdo2Fdo/download/download.html

I belive ArcSDE is capable of saving as SHP files.
You can load SHP files through MapGuide Studio, or access them directly.

I know the OGR provider reports having point+line+polygon if the table
contains a single polygon. I assume it is the same for PostGIS.

This makes MapGuide Studio set up styles for all three types.
Trying to remove the style, leaves an ugly red cross in the legend.

You can use MapGuide Maestro to select what items should be avalible.
Once done, you can re-open the layer in MapGuide Studio as normal:
http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/maestro

Regards, Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S



GISDOTNET skrev:
> Jason,
>
> I think I answered part of my own question...Service=<Database Name> and
> DataStore=<schema name>. I am now able to connect to the PostGIS database
> and see my featureclasses; however, I notice that when I create a layer,
> MapGuideStudio doesn't seem to recognize the geometry and I am bale to set
> symbology for line, point, and polygon regardless of the actual geometry of
> the feature selected. I had the same issue when I connected to the data as a
> personal geodatabase using the FDO OGR provider. Any ideas?
>
> Any other advice on converting from ESRI formats to SDF would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Aaron
>
>
> JasonBirch wrote:
>  
>> For data management, an RDBMS is of course preferred.  
>>
>> Other options to ArcSDE/PostGIS would be something like SQL Server 2008
>> (cheaper than ArcSDE if you don't need the bells and whistles) or
>> something like the Oracle Express Edition (free, but with a rather
>> painful curve as you scale up).  I'd encourage you not to give up on
>> getting PostGIS to work.  Often you'll see that something like the wrong
>> version of the ssleay library is located elsewhere in the filesystem,
>> but I've always been able to get it working by putting the required dlls
>> in the FDO installation directory.
>>
>> My preference in this regard though is to optimize for performance, and
>> if you do not need up-to-the-minute currency or web-based editing you
>> can see considerable performance gains by going to SDF or (if you're
>> feeling adventurous) SQLite as the data storage format.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: GISDOTNET
>> Subject: [mapguide-users] Spatial Data Formats Best Practice
>>
>>
>> I have worked with ESRI web technology for the past 9 years and am
>> getting up
>> to speed with MapGuide Open Source 2.0.1 and the FDO providers. While
>> there
>> are numerous FDO providers, I would like to know what the preferred or
>> best
>> practice data format is for MapGuide OS 2.0.1? My overall preference is
>> to
>> go with a RDBMS spatial solution like ArcSDE or PostGIS; however, I am
>> completely flexible. I have gone through dll hell trying to get the
>> PostGIS
>> FDO provider configured without success and ArcSDE comes at a steep
>> price.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mapguide-users mailing list
>> [e-mail]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users
>>
>>
>>    
>
>  

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[e-mail]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users

[Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S]

GISDOTNET skrev:
> Kenneth,
>
> Thanks for the response. I am using FDO which is how I got the OGR and
> PostGIS providers configured. It's great that I don't have to convert;
> however, I started this thread to determine which format, if any, was
> preferred or best practice for use with MGOS from a performance,
> functionality, usability, etc. standpoint.
>  
I see, I have no good advice in that direction.
I have tested that TAB files over OGR outperforms SDF files,
especially if I remove unused columns.

Unfortunately, it is not as stable as I would like.
I'm guessing that SDF is the most stable one, as it was designed for FDO.
> What do you mean by "single polygon" when you wrote "I know the OGR provider
> reports having point+line+polygon if the table contains a single polygon."
> The table is nothing but polygons, or lines, or points. Shouldn't the OGR or
> PostGIS provider be able to distinguish the geometry from the designated
> geometry column? I'll look into MapGuide Maestro and see if that helps.
>
>  
If I have a table with only points, the OGR provider reports that it
contains geometry of type point.
If I add a line, it reports that it contains points and lines.
If I make a new table and add a single polygon, it reports having
points, lines and polygons.

You can view what the provider reports if you press the "Preview" button
while
having the Featuresource open. (on the left side).
> I appreciate the education.
>
> Aaron
>  
Regards, Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users

[GisDotNet-2]

Kenneth,

That's what I don't understand. The features are in an ESRI personal geodatabase when I use OGR and the tables as they are seen don't have other geometry types e.g. in ESRI you can't have mixed geometries in a featureclass/table. I thought that the OGR was having trouble reading the geometry type which is why I converted the personal geodatabase to PostGIS. The conversion went without problem; however, it still sees each table as having all geometries which I know is not the case.

I just downloaded Maestro and was able to set the proper geometry to display, but there isn't a preview in Maestro? So I saved the layer and opened Autodesk MapGuide Studio 2008 and noticed that the layer showed an error on the "Feature Class" dropdown. It appears that Maestro sees the feature class differently than MapGuide Studio (MapGuide Studio<Feature class=FdoPostGIS:public~taxparcel> and Maestro<Schema=FdoPostGIS:public-x7e-taxparcel>. Not sure why or what this means, but I can't jump between the two environments.

In which environment does the "Preview" button that you mentioned reside?

Thanks again.

Aaron

Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S wrote:

GISDOTNET skrev:
> Kenneth,
>
> Thanks for the response. I am using FDO which is how I got the OGR and
> PostGIS providers configured. It's great that I don't have to convert;
> however, I started this thread to determine which format, if any, was
> preferred or best practice for use with MGOS from a performance,
> functionality, usability, etc. standpoint.
>  
I see, I have no good advice in that direction.
I have tested that TAB files over OGR outperforms SDF files,
especially if I remove unused columns.

Unfortunately, it is not as stable as I would like.
I'm guessing that SDF is the most stable one, as it was designed for FDO.
> What do you mean by "single polygon" when you wrote "I know the OGR provider
> reports having point+line+polygon if the table contains a single polygon."
> The table is nothing but polygons, or lines, or points. Shouldn't the OGR or
> PostGIS provider be able to distinguish the geometry from the designated
> geometry column? I'll look into MapGuide Maestro and see if that helps.
>
>  
If I have a table with only points, the OGR provider reports that it
contains geometry of type point.
If I add a line, it reports that it contains points and lines.
If I make a new table and add a single polygon, it reports having
points, lines and polygons.

You can view what the provider reports if you press the "Preview" button
while
having the Featuresource open. (on the left side).
> I appreciate the education.
>
> Aaron
>  
Regards, Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[e-mail]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users

[Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S]

GISDOTNET skrev:

> Kenneth,
>
> That's what I don't understand. The features are in an ESRI personal
> geodatabase when I use OGR and the tables as they are seen don't have other
> geometry types e.g. in ESRI you can't have mixed geometries in a
> featureclass/table. I thought that the OGR was having trouble reading the
> geometry type which is why I converted the personal geodatabase to PostGIS.
> The conversion went without problem; however, it still sees each table as
> having all geometries which I know is not the case.
>
>  

Yes, I consider it a bug in the OGR/PostGIS provider, but I can live
with it, so I have not reported it.
I probably should though.

> I just downloaded Maestro and was able to set the proper geometry to
> display, but there isn't a preview in Maestro? So I saved the layer and
> opened Autodesk MapGuide Studio 2008 and noticed that the layer showed an
> error on the "Feature Class" dropdown. It appears that Maestro sees the
> feature class differently than MapGuide Studio (MapGuide Studio<Feature
> class=FdoPostGIS:public~taxparcel> and
> Maestro<Schema=FdoPostGIS:public-x7e-taxparcel>. Not sure why or what this
> means, but I can't jump between the two environments.
>
>  

Ok, so MapGuide Studio and Maestro encodes the two names differently.
Thats very very strange.
You can still use Maestro, but its a bit difficult then, because you
have to manually edit the xml
for the layer, after saving it with Maestro.
In Maestro, modify the layer as desired, then click save, then close.
Now right click the layer on the right, and select "Edit as Xml".
Find the place with the wrong schema, and correct it.
Click save then close.

You may want to view the xml before editing it in Maestro, so you know
what to change it back to.

> In which environment does the "Preview" button that you mentioned reside?
>  

Both environments have the preview. In both, it is a button in the
toolbar above the feature source.
> Thanks again.
>
> Aaron
>
>  

Regards, Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users

[GisDotNet-2]

Ok, I now see the preview icon in Maestro. I'll work with the XML flip flop for now, but maybe a ticket should be opened on this and the geometry recognition issue. My last question, for now, is how or does OGR or PostGIS handle annotation featureclasses? Or perhaps a better way of asking given the focus of this thread, is what is the best way to handle annotation in MGOS e.g. label a feature and set the symbology to transparent, etc.

Thanks,

Aaron

Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S wrote:

GISDOTNET skrev:
> Kenneth,
>
> That's what I don't understand. The features are in an ESRI personal
> geodatabase when I use OGR and the tables as they are seen don't have other
> geometry types e.g. in ESRI you can't have mixed geometries in a
> featureclass/table. I thought that the OGR was having trouble reading the
> geometry type which is why I converted the personal geodatabase to PostGIS.
> The conversion went without problem; however, it still sees each table as
> having all geometries which I know is not the case.
>
>  

Yes, I consider it a bug in the OGR/PostGIS provider, but I can live
with it, so I have not reported it.
I probably should though.

> I just downloaded Maestro and was able to set the proper geometry to
> display, but there isn't a preview in Maestro? So I saved the layer and
> opened Autodesk MapGuide Studio 2008 and noticed that the layer showed an
> error on the "Feature Class" dropdown. It appears that Maestro sees the
> feature class differently than MapGuide Studio (MapGuide Studio<Feature
> class=FdoPostGIS:public~taxparcel> and
> Maestro<Schema=FdoPostGIS:public-x7e-taxparcel>. Not sure why or what this
> means, but I can't jump between the two environments.
>
>  

Ok, so MapGuide Studio and Maestro encodes the two names differently.
Thats very very strange.
You can still use Maestro, but its a bit difficult then, because you
have to manually edit the xml
for the layer, after saving it with Maestro.
In Maestro, modify the layer as desired, then click save, then close.
Now right click the layer on the right, and select "Edit as Xml".
Find the place with the wrong schema, and correct it.
Click save then close.

You may want to view the xml before editing it in Maestro, so you know
what to change it back to.

> In which environment does the "Preview" button that you mentioned reside?
>  

Both environments have the preview. In both, it is a button in the
toolbar above the feature source.
> Thanks again.
>
> Aaron
>
>  

Regards, Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S

_______________________________________________
mapguide-users mailing list
[e-mail]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users

[Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S]

You can enter a ticket for Maestro here:
http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/newticket
(Remember to select Component = Maestro).

You can enter a ticket for FDO (OGR + PostGIS provider) here:
http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/newticket

You could also file a ticket for Studio through the Autodesk page.
I think there's a link in one of the menus in Studio.

I hope someone else can answer your annotation question.

Regards, Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S



GISDOTNET skrev:

> Ok, I found now see the preview icon in maestro. I work with the XML flip
> flop for now, but maybe a ticket should be opened on the this and the
> geometry recognition issue. My last question, for now, is how or does OGR or
> PostGIS handle annotation featureclasses? Or perhaps a better way of asking
> given he focus if this thread, is what is the best way to handle annotation
> e.g. label a feature and set the symbology to transparent, etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Aaron
>
>
> Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S wrote:
>  
>> GISDOTNET skrev:
>>    
>>> Kenneth,
>>>
>>> That's what I don't understand. The features are in an ESRI personal
>>> geodatabase when I use OGR and the tables as they are seen don't have
>>> other
>>> geometry types e.g. in ESRI you can't have mixed geometries in a
>>> featureclass/table. I thought that the OGR was having trouble reading the
>>> geometry type which is why I converted the personal geodatabase to
>>> PostGIS.
>>> The conversion went without problem; however, it still sees each table as
>>> having all geometries which I know is not the case.
>>>
>>>  
>>>      
>> Yes, I consider it a bug in the OGR/PostGIS provider, but I can live
>> with it, so I have not reported it.
>> I probably should though.
>>
>>    
>>> I just downloaded Maestro and was able to set the proper geometry to
>>> display, but there isn't a preview in Maestro? So I saved the layer and
>>> opened Autodesk MapGuide Studio 2008 and noticed that the layer showed an
>>> error on the "Feature Class" dropdown. It appears that Maestro sees the
>>> feature class differently than MapGuide Studio (MapGuide Studio<Feature
>>> class=FdoPostGIS:public~taxparcel> and
>>> Maestro<Schema=FdoPostGIS:public-x7e-taxparcel>. Not sure why or what
>>> this
>>> means, but I can't jump between the two environments.
>>>
>>>  
>>>      
>> Ok, so MapGuide Studio and Maestro encodes the two names differently.
>> Thats very very strange.
>> You can still use Maestro, but its a bit difficult then, because you
>> have to manually edit the xml
>> for the layer, after saving it with Maestro.
>> In Maestro, modify the layer as desired, then click save, then close.
>> Now right click the layer on the right, and select "Edit as Xml".
>> Find the place with the wrong schema, and correct it.
>> Click save then close.
>>
>> You may want to view the xml before editing it in Maestro, so you know
>> what to change it back to.
>>
>>    
>>> In which environment does the "Preview" button that you mentioned reside?
>>>  
>>>      
>> Both environments have the preview. In both, it is a button in the
>> toolbar above the feature source.
>>    
>>> Thanks again.
>>>
>>> Aaron
>>>
>>>  
>>>      
>> Regards, Kenneth Skovhede, GEOGRAF A/S
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mapguide-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users
>>
>>
>>    

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