So..... What are you going to do??

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Postaltexan

So..... What are you going to do??

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After this count everyone is mad as hell..  and with good reason.  You should be mad..  We all should be mad.   I didn't do as bad as some of you did.  But, I still lost money.  

And, once again, here we are.  Wounded from the battle of the count, pissed off and screaming at the top of our lungs about the unfairness of the count.  Do you think anyone is listening?

So, in an effort to once more stir some action from some of you, I am going to repost the exact same post I posted here at the exact same time last year with a few tweaks.  Not much had to be changed.  I could have really copy and pasted the exact same post and it would still fit our situation today.  Sad isn't it?  That we have not made one bit of progress since the last mail count?   That we take the same abuse year after year and never do a thing about it...

Anyway, below is the post from last year.  I will post it again next year and the year after until we as a craft are fed up enough to join together and do something..  

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I do believe there is manipulation of mail flow going on.  I do believe they work overtime to purge the mail the week before a mail count begins.  I do believe that they offer the mailers some type of incentive to slow down the mailings during a mail count period.  I do believe they hide and shuffle bulk mail during the count period.  I also believe they will let the mail flow the week after count ends without a worry in their minds.  Why do I believe all of this??  Because we have and will let them.  Ever heard of BOHICA?  Bend Over Here It Comes Again...  We invite them to the BOHICA fest time and time again.

We have continued to have a death grip on the evaluated system no matter what they do... And, in return they continue to manipulate mail counts.  

Every time our standards have been reduced or we lose in a mail count, we speed up. We end up running ourselves back to the same level of under time we had before.  

  We are like hamsters on a wheel.  Running after who knows what...  That glorious hour or two that we get to leave early??  I keep hearing lets get the standards fixed..  We can repair this....  Oh really, as a good friend of mine likes to say “How we looking now?” Don't forget, we have FSS on the horizon.  If you think that wont reduce our evaluations, you better take some time and read up on that...

Once upon a time the evaluated system worked for the craft as a whole.  It no longer works as a fair pay system for all.  And, as I have said many times, the USPS changed the rules.  We are no longer playing a fair game.  

The evaluated system has always been based on the incentive it provided.  It created efficiency..  It worked for both sides...  The USPS and the rural carriers.  And, again, I say, “How we looking now?”  Is it still working for you?  Even after this massacre of a mail count?

Some say if we change anything we will be micromanaged like the city carriers are...  NEWS FLASH!!!!!  We are being micromanaged now...  Anyone ever heard of RDOIS??  If you haven't go to work tomorrow and ask your postmaster...  He will know exactly what you are talking about and probably has been tracking you through it on his computer.  Ever heard of ERMS?  Ask your PM about that too..  Ever had them push you to go faster?  Ever had them tell you that you weren't working to standards?  Ever had them harass you over 2080?  Ever heard the words “thats included?”  Ever heard of  “Christmas Overtime”?  Ever get much of it?

 We have allowed all of this to happen by not even considering that the evaluated system no longer works for us.  We have allowed ourselves to end up with manipulated mail counts time and time again.
Does going hourly hold all the answers?  Probably not, but what we are doing now is not working like it used to.  I could deal with a yearly average system, or something like it..  As long as there are NO MORE MAIL COUNTS.  Mail counts can be be manipulated over and over again.  

 Are you mad about this mail count?? Are you mad because your mail volume suddenly disappeared??
NEWS FLASH!!  You haven't seen anything yet until you get counted in a May mail count under FSS.... You think this mail count is a massacre..  We will need gallons of Vaseline for that one.  

Do you think quitting the union is the answer?  Go ahead...  And the next time you don't like a contract that is presented, guess what?, you will have no say..   Some say lets go to the media, or even Congress...  Sounds like an idea, but what exactly are you going to tell them?  The USPS manipulates the mail flow during a mail count...   The very first question any of them are going to ask is what proof do you have....  Does anyone out there have solid substantiated proof that the USPS is manipulating mail flow?    We can all say we know they do it.  But without some kind of proof, anyone we go to will laugh us out of the building.

If we really want to make a change, we, meaning ordinary rural carriers will have to start something to make a change at the ground level.    Ordinary rural carriers, like myself and all of you have two very important rights in this association.  One, you get to vote on contracts like we did when they offered us the extension... Yea, we ended up with about the same thing, but there was a little improvement that came out of us voting that thing down.   Two, you get to vote on the delegates from your state that you send to represent you at the National convention.  These two things are basically the only power ordinary rural carriers have.  So, what can we do to change things?  

We change the delegates we send to the national convention..  Plain and simple...

I hear time and time again how we keep electing the same old delegates who vote in the same old people over and over again.  Let me ask you this....  Did you vote on your delegates last year?  Did you even look at the ballot?  I bet more of you take the time to vote on “American Idol” than have taken time to look at one of those ballots..  

If you did vote, did you even know what they stood for when you voted?  Did you vote for them just because you recognized their name?   I see time and time again a blurb in my state paper that says vote for me....  but nothing that tells me why I should vote for them.  Guess what, I don't vote for them.  If I don't know how they feel about important issues in this craft, then they don't get my vote.

So, my point is, for those of you that are tired of all the same old crap, the same old people, are you ready to do something about it?   Are you ready to do something more than just gripe on a message board?  Are you ready to step up to the plate?  The first thing we need to do is get people to vote for their delegates in the first place.  The 2nd thing we need to do is get the word out about the delegates in your state. If we don't get carriers start voting we may as well get used to the BOHICA fests.  Over and over again.

Once again, I have started the Delegate Awareness Project.   It will require collaboration from many people.  It will require carriers from every state.  If people do not step up for this, a few of us cannot do it... It will not be possible.  And the same old song will continue to play.  

For those of you who want to hear that same old song over and over in your head every day, do nothing.   Keep griping while doing nothing...  We will keep checking back to see how thats working for ya.....   But for those of you out there that want to do something but don't know where to turn....  Join us, get involved and spread the word.  

http://ruralinfo.net/delegateawareness.html

Think about it... Its time to make a commitment to something..  It is time to do something.  I will spend my free time trying to make this thing work if you will step up to help me..
AND

  Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has..
Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has..
daboysdada

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I agree with you completely P.T. Like I tell my wife, "IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, DON'T COMPLAIN!"
*SUPERsub*

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In reply to this post by Postaltexan
now let me ask you all a serious question? ok?

we all are thankful for pt making this great place for us...no doubt..you can get EVERYTHING here...information, fellowship, a place to vent...whatever you are looking for...If she sees you in need does she not answer you as fast as she can if no one else does? why sure she does....What has she EVER asked of you in return except to use the information...
Well now we are asking...we need people to help with the delegate project...so many are skipping right by...and thinking..."oh well...they cant mean me surely!"

HELL YES WE MEAN YOU!!!

we need to do this..we all do...lets at least try it once...JUST ONE TIME FOLKS...with everyone helping a little...or else perhaps one of these days..Pt will get tired of funding your education...and pull all the sites...(since shes nicer and sweeter than me..i doubt she would...but if it was up to me...id yank it all if people couldnt at least do something other than whine..if you cant help yourself some...sort of thing)

come on guys...what do you think? cant you committ to helping? it dont cost you nothing but a little time...and cant hurt a thing ...but it just might save you alot in the future? think about it !

http://ruralinfo.net/delegateawareness.html
To err is human...to blame it on someone else shows management potential!
*SUPERsub*

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I guess I need to show you how this works...:

ONE VOICE =a sigh...easy to ignore
2 or 3 voices=a sigh still easy to ignore
3-10 voices =a whisper...WHAT??? we cant hear you...
1-20 voices =we can almost make it out..a little louder now...
2-50 voices =we hear you...why should we listen?
50+ voices =you are freaking annoying you know that???
100+ voices =YOU ARE PISSING US OFF>>>GO AWAY!!!!!
200+ voices =we hear you loud and clear....and my you look fabulous...we really think you suck but were gonna listen to shut you up....OH SHIT>>>you 200 hundred people talked to 200 more people and now we are concerned....those are just the ones we know about...dang..what we gonna do...OH NO!!! EEEKKKKK!!!!!

Whats sad guys ...online rural radicals are a MINORITY...we are a group unto ourselves...beleive it or not ...a well informed group actually...you belong to a set of folks that could make an impact...all it takes is us...acting COHERENTLY and for a result..and who knows what will happen...
To err is human...to blame it on someone else shows management potential!
Noppie

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My other former job was doing free lance graphic art.  I did work locally and had no nation accounts.  However i day one of the guys I went to high school who had later worked for SEARS and was in charge of the mail order catalogs and knew I was working for USPS.  Asked me why they jack up the rates year around February to whenever.  I told we had a mail count during those periods.

I asked that when i had to go down to new employe orientation for a second time 8 years later.  I was told it was untrue but that USPS did vary its rates with volume and the time of year
Noppie

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There are only two choices

ONE: Decertify the NRLCA and request the National Labor board utilize OBAMA's new law to start a NEW UNION that is actually interested in representing the RURAL LETTER CARRIERS

TWO:  Only hour your evaluated hours.  Put up First and second and any bulk to their imaginary time go to street.  Put up any bulk when you get till quitting time and go home.  I have already been threaten with being fired If I do that.  But not getting paid and working for FREE both net zero dollars.  And yes I get paid for the first 6 hour and next six are for FREE.  Thee simply gets to a point where it is not worth working    
Falcon57

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I am full agreement in saying that if all you are going to do is whine and complain and not do something like changing delegates and board members for our national office, then you are not part of the solution.  I am working in an office with only three people that take the time to complain and find answers (I am one of those three by the way).  One carrier is considering a lawsuit against the union for not representing him (and all us for that matter) properly.  He is sending a letter to the union stating his frustration over the "Carrier Pick-Up Program".  If that fails, I believe he will follow-up with his lawsuit.  I have told him I will give him all the support he needs.  The other people in my office are nothing more than whinning slugs that believe speaking up does not accomplish anything.  Phooey!

The point is to stop the talking and start walking the walk.

The delegate awareness project that PJ is starting is a great first step for all of us.  I for one will try to find out who is on the national board and make sure I don't make the mistake and voting them in again.  Some people just fill out the ballot and send it without even looking at the names or finding out what each candidate believes in.  Some even don't bother sending their ballots in.  Pretty sad if you ask me.

I even sent the national board a letter expressing to them that the national convention is coming up soon and that they should be aware that many of the people on this site may show up to express their anger and frustrations.  If anyone wants to see the letter and use is an example let me know and I will post it.
Need up to date info on what is really going on in the world?  Listen to Dr. Stan Monteith on http://www.radioliberty.com.
Falcon57

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Steven Noppenberger wrote:
TWO:  Only hour your evaluated hours.  Put up First and second and any bulk to their imaginary time go to street.  Put up any bulk when you get till quitting time and go home.  I have already been threaten with being fired If I do that.  But not getting paid and working for FREE both net zero dollars.  And yes I get paid for the first 6 hour and next six are for FREE.  Thee simply gets to a point where it is not worth working    
I am currently doing the second one.  I REFUSE to give management more than I am contracturally required to give.  I only work my daily evaluated hours and no more if I can help it because of daily circumstances.  Third class mail will have to wait until I have the time to work it.  Period! ! ! !
Need up to date info on what is really going on in the world?  Listen to Dr. Stan Monteith on http://www.radioliberty.com.
doug in illinois

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In reply to this post by Noppie
Hello Steve:
Doug in Illinois is the same Doug who just bought your Jeep.
I, like you, do know the contract and demand what we are entitled to at our local level. I was a steward when I was in Colorado, so still keep up to date on everything USPS throws at us.
Have YOU considered running for delegate? I have considered it, but don't want to only give it the limited time I have while trying to also farm and keep the "honey-do's" going. Not worth doing if I can't do it right. DOUG
bluejinx61

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Bravo!!!  My first time here.  Said the same things, except for the new technology, thirty years ago.  One important element left out.  The retired carriers.  They are the voting block both at the state and national level.  Lose them!!!  Thirty years ago state meetings were being opened with a prayer of thanks for such wonderful government jobs.  I've read most of the posts here.  Rural Carriers are still not paying attention.  Those who say many can accomplish great things are correct.  But, the many need to be of like mind.  When you are sent to an office twenty to fifty miles away to work will you pay attention?  When your office is consolidated and time is leveled among thirty year carriers and one year carriers will you pay attention?  When you have lost your job because there are no local openings will you pay attention?  The evaluated system can be manipulated by both parties.   It is archaic and arcane.  Vote wisely and be careful.  Understand the process because the association does not.  You have people acting as stewards and representing you at a salary not available to regular carriers.  When was the last time you knew a 48K carrier?  We were sold out four contracts ago when they negotiated with the same lame Post Office on Wheels crap.  A contract when only language and benefits should have been addressed.  But no,  huge salary increases were sought and the arbitrator asked if any other postal employees provided the same service.  Excellent question because the Postal Service pointed them to the HCR carriers doing exactly what we do for, in many cases, minimum wage.  

THINK ABOUT IT!!!
Noppie

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I DO NOT BELIEVE RUNNING FOR A DELEGATE WILL CHANGE ANYTHING!!

The system is beyond flawed.  I am guess most people are saying "IF ONLY THE SYSTEM WORKED"  or "IF only I get one of those route that should be evaluated at 4 hours a day but is somehow evaluated at 9.25 hours a day and has every saturday off"  But you are chasing a ghost.  They will never give you a FAIR count.  And that route that should always have been evaluated at 4 hours a day will be when you get it.  

The problem is the National Rural Carrier Association is working the USPS on every level.  If the NRLCA was on any level actually trying to represent the Rural Craft they would be addressing this perverted mail count.  Because to every PROBLEM there is a SOLUTION.  And since the problem is so PERVERTED they should be taking steps.  We can think hundred different actions.  BUT the NRCLA is DEAD SILENT!  That is a statement in itself.  

My job in the US Marine was calling artillery for foreign troops.  I only speak ENGLISH.  LOOKING at the ACTIONS taken by NRLCA screams THEY ARE WORKING AGAINST ALL Rural Letter Carriers with in the USPS.  

In reading the contract it appeared we can select be paid by the hour by completing 4015-D or 4015-E.  In talking Maryland State Steward there is a FORM BUT NRLCA and USPS will not all it.

Steve  
5Rebel5

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I haven't even read all the posts yet, but I have made a decision to do NOTHING I didn't get paid for during the count.... I'm not going to answer the phone anymore UNLESS it's on an 8127.... I'm not going to cancel stamps anymore.... I'm not going to put torn mail in those 'WE CARE" bags.... and I'm not going to pick up anymore food for the food drive... that's really the city carriers agreement with the charities and they can just get a route description and pick up the food on my route.... the only difference is he/she will BE ON THE CLOCK!!.... I am no longer going to allow myself to be RAPED AND CHEATED by my employer every day during the count and then be expected to do anything FREE....AND FURTHERMORE, if my union doesn't do anything on our next contract about this damn confusing, inconsistent evaluated system that's devastating our people, I'm going to stop paying my dues and let them see what it's like to take a big pay cut.... I know the volume has declined, but it doesn't help when they have their spys out there manipulating the mail volume through the count period.... I don't know how much we can be expected to lose???.... THE OTHER CRAFTS DO NOT LOSE WITH VOLUME LOSS..... as you can tell, I'm just SICK.... I've lost 5 hours last year and 4 this year.... we just simply can't trust our employer to give us a FAIR count anymore....
bkr

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We have filed grivances. We have contacted union reps. We have done everything you can. The next step is to tell the union we can no longer afford you . Love ya, but suck it up and take a huge pay cut like the rest of us. Once you fix the problem, totally screwed, inconsistant counting proceedures, and address all the grivances, including those in the past, and all our new ones, bite me. Our office too is now doing only what we are paid for and not a second more. 4 seconds to sort mail? No problem. There, one Net Flix put in it's special tray. The rest, with everything else just get dumped. Damn just exceded my 4 seconds. Dump it all.
bluejinx61

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In reply to this post by 5Rebel5
Why would you do any of those things?  If it is not in the 603 you do not do it, period!  
I have been a long time advocate of decertifying  the association.   The association wastes immense amounts of manpower and money sucking up to the PO, messing with the auxiliary, and catering to the retired carriers.  Most have lost touch with the real purpose of representation.   This is the best worst answer and it is far overdue.  Not wanting to offend anyone but have you looked at your national officers recently?  Do they look like they're working?  Unfortunately your only real vote is your money.  I fought for ten years for one man one vote.  I was ridiculed and laughed out of state conventions.  But we now have that.  I am no longer a fan of wasting ten years to accomplish what is our right.  

I am glad everyone is now angry enough to fight back.  For way too long rural carriers have been their own worst enemy.
 
bluejinx61

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Seriously curious about the 4 secondds to sort mail.  Please help me out here.
bkr

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In our office, we are given 4 seconds to sort mail (flats and letters). Arranging it so it can be dropped into the outgoing tray/tub that goes to the plant for processing. Basically speeding up that process. If we have another separation, (Net Flix) we get another 2 seconds for those. etc, etc. What it comes down to is doing work for free. You just can't do it the time given. We don't sort it. Just another shot the po took at getting something for free. What do you do?
Postaltexan

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In reply to this post by Postaltexan
Soooo, let me ask those of you that propose doing nothing a question?

What do you hope to accomplish??

Are you simply making your own statement?  Will it make you feel better?

While I understand people are mad, and for good reason, I simply cannot understand
that you have decided to do nothing..  Are you willing to accept the same thing
every year?  When next year rolls around and you are sitting in the exact same place,
will you still be mad, or feeling feeling satisfied because you did nothing?

I have said many times before, we have to face reality..  The NRLCA will NOT be
decertified.  There is not a law firm in this country that will take on the USPS
on behalf of the rural carriers who have a union. Congress is not going to do
a damn thing for us..  

Our future depends on what WE as a craft decide to do.  So, if you feel satisfied
doing nothing, CARRY ON!!  We will see ya next year yelling and screaming the
exact same things you are screaming now..  In the meantime, the rest of us
will be facing the reality that there is only one thing that will ever change where
we are..  That is the action we take as a unified rural craft...
Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has..
nightmare

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I, too, am mad as HELL! Dead silence from the union......just what good is it?  I just became a regular carrier, was an RCA for 18 years. Served on an Aux route for 5 of them. NOT my first count. When I heard the USPS announce they were "predicting" a decrease of at least 13% in mail volume, I knew we were screwed. The first thing the union SHOULD do is file a class action suit against the PO for "manufacturing" the count. But then, we can't even get our local stewards to get back to us! I have to admit, I joined the union only after I made regular. I just wonder what my dues are paying for. One thing I noticed, those running for office don't really say what their beliefs are.....how are we supposed to choose? Any ideas?
bluejinx61

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In reply to this post by bkr
Not sure about your plant but at ours the mail is dumped into a huge bin at the bottom of the first conveyor.  If your plant is the same whatever you are doing is very quickly undone.  Sounds like you have a chicken shit PM.  Enough of those to go around.

Thanks for the reply.
william cole

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In reply to this post by Noppie
it was managements count. I assure you THEY were using THIER own numbers. They did not even care about what the manuals stated.
True < I am grieveing. with no DJSC and no QWL who is going to review it anyway.  RR12 Orange Park, FL 32065
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