SVN write access request

[Colin Nielsen]

Hello grass developers,
I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.
I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
contributions (RFC2)", and have created an osgeo_id (cnielsen).

Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you require.

-Colin
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[Michael Barton]

I'm certainly in favor of this. I'm really happy that Colin is working  
on these important modules.

+1

Michael
____________________
C. Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology
Director of Graduate Studies
School of Human Evolution & Social Change
Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity
Arizona State University

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
www: <www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton>



On Dec 5, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Colin Nielsen wrote:

> Hello grass developers,
> I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
> updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.
> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
> contributions (RFC2)", and have created an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>
> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you require.
>
> -Colin
> _______________________________________________
> grass-psc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc

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[Maciej Sieczka]

Colin Nielsen pisze:
> Hello grass developers, I am writing to request write access to the
> SVN so I can make some updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain
> modules.

+1 by all means. Welcome!

> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
> contributions (RFC2)", and have created an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>
> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you require.

Please make sure not to lose SVN history when forking the modules in
addons branch:
http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2008-December/041232.html

Best,
Maciek

--
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www.sieczka.org
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[Helena Mitasova]

+1 from me and welcome!

Colin, please discuss any changes that you plan to do on the dev list,
including whether they should go into GRASS7 or also in GRASS64 (if  
you plan
to do some fixes or enhancements that are broadly needed).

Helena


On Dec 5, 2008, at 7:38 PM, Colin Nielsen wrote:

> Hello grass developers,
> I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
> updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.
> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
> contributions (RFC2)", and have created an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>
> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you require.
>
> -Colin
> _______________________________________________
> grass-psc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc

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[Scott Mitchell-3]

+0

Scott Mitchell (on my way to a brief vacation, thus not looking into  
this, but happy to see a volunteer and some endorsements)


On 5 Dec 2008, at 19:38, Colin Nielsen wrote:

> Hello grass developers,
> I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
> updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.
> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
> contributions (RFC2)", and have created an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>
> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you require.
>
> -Colin
> _______________________________________________
> grass-psc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc

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[hamish-2]

Colin Nielsen wrote:
> I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
> updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.
> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
> contributions (RFC2)", and have created an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>
> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you
> require.


Hi Colin,

it is rather poorly explained in the trac wiki (well, ok, it's wrong):
the typical process for new developers is that for some mentorship
period they send patches to the devel list or trac system for other old
timers to review and commit for them. full svn access generally happens
when the mentor has seen enough patches that they trust the person's code,
and get bored reviewing all their patches. at that point the mentor
nominates the new dev, and the vote happens.

this is all rather murky common-law stuff, we've never got around to
working on the second draft of RFC3 and preparing it for ratification.
None the less, this is a PSC vote, and from my reading of the current
RFC3 & expectations, votes are supposed to be called by a member of the
PSC (ie your dev mentor) not by the new dev. the dev/trac wiki should
say that, but it doesn't. oops


I don't doubt that you have a better understanding of the inner workings
of r.drain, r.cost, and r.walk than maybe anyone else here, and that
you've been quietly working away on them for months, but the fact of the
matter is that I've never seen a proper patch, so have nothing to go on
to make a judgment right now. sorry.

for what it's worth, you don't have to be god's gift to programming; as
far as I can tell most of us here are scientists come self-taught
programmers when we needed some tool. luckily there are some real
programmers around to keep us in line ;)


what I'd suggest is that we stall this vote and apologize for any mis-
understandings, you post your improvements to the bug/wish trac system,
get them reviewed & committed, etc etc. and then sooner or later we will
trust your code and get sick of committing things for you and whoever
does most of that committing will make some noises to pick up this vote
where we left off.


todo for the rest of us: fix the wiki text and finish rfc3.


cheers & I look forward to trying out your contributions*,
Hamish


[*] did you see our (ie Ryan's) r.walk penguin nest site selection project?
r.drain did a pretty good job of replicating their well worn paths up the
beach and into the cliffs. neat confirmation. there was also a nice
viewshed coupling aspect to it.



     

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[Dylan Beaudette]

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Hamish <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Colin Nielsen wrote:
>> I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
>> updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.
>> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
>> contributions (RFC2)", and have created an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>>
>> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you
>> require.
>
>
> Hi Colin,
>
> it is rather poorly explained in the trac wiki (well, ok, it's wrong):
> the typical process for new developers is that for some mentorship
> period they send patches to the devel list or trac system for other old
> timers to review and commit for them. full svn access generally happens
> when the mentor has seen enough patches that they trust the person's code,
> and get bored reviewing all their patches. at that point the mentor
> nominates the new dev, and the vote happens.
>
> this is all rather murky common-law stuff, we've never got around to
> working on the second draft of RFC3 and preparing it for ratification.
> None the less, this is a PSC vote, and from my reading of the current
> RFC3 & expectations, votes are supposed to be called by a member of the
> PSC (ie your dev mentor) not by the new dev. the dev/trac wiki should
> say that, but it doesn't. oops
>
>
> I don't doubt that you have a better understanding of the inner workings
> of r.drain, r.cost, and r.walk than maybe anyone else here, and that
> you've been quietly working away on them for months, but the fact of the
> matter is that I've never seen a proper patch, so have nothing to go on
> to make a judgment right now. sorry.
>
> for what it's worth, you don't have to be god's gift to programming; as
> far as I can tell most of us here are scientists come self-taught
> programmers when we needed some tool. luckily there are some real
> programmers around to keep us in line ;)
>
>
> what I'd suggest is that we stall this vote and apologize for any mis-
> understandings, you post your improvements to the bug/wish trac system,
> get them reviewed & committed, etc etc. and then sooner or later we will
> trust your code and get sick of committing things for you and whoever
> does most of that committing will make some noises to pick up this vote
> where we left off.
>
>
> todo for the rest of us: fix the wiki text and finish rfc3.
>
>
> cheers & I look forward to trying out your contributions*,
> Hamish

As I am less involved with development, I tend to defer to Hamish's
judgement on this matter. As a long-time user of r.cost / r.walk /
r.drain I am excited about new developments in those modules, and
would like to see Colin eventually contribute his code- post testing.
I would be happy to assist with testing these modules. Thanks for the
hard work.

Cheers,

Dylan

>
>
> [*] did you see our (ie Ryan's) r.walk penguin nest site selection project?
> r.drain did a pretty good job of replicating their well worn paths up the
> beach and into the cliffs. neat confirmation. there was also a nice
> viewshed coupling aspect to it.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grass-psc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc
>

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[Michael Barton]

I understand Hamish's point, but also agree with Dylan on the  
importance of these modules.

Michael
______________________________
C. Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology
Director of Graduate Studies
School of Human Evolution & Social Change
Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ  85287-2402
USA

voice: 480-965-6262; fax: [phone]
www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton

On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Dylan Beaudette wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Hamish <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Colin Nielsen wrote:
>>> I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
>>> updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.
>>> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
>>> contributions (RFC2)", and have created an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>>>
>>> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you
>>> require.
>>
>>
>> Hi Colin,
>>
>> it is rather poorly explained in the trac wiki (well, ok, it's  
>> wrong):
>> the typical process for new developers is that for some mentorship
>> period they send patches to the devel list or trac system for other  
>> old
>> timers to review and commit for them. full svn access generally  
>> happens
>> when the mentor has seen enough patches that they trust the  
>> person's code,
>> and get bored reviewing all their patches. at that point the mentor
>> nominates the new dev, and the vote happens.
>>
>> this is all rather murky common-law stuff, we've never got around to
>> working on the second draft of RFC3 and preparing it for  
>> ratification.
>> None the less, this is a PSC vote, and from my reading of the current
>> RFC3 & expectations, votes are supposed to be called by a member of  
>> the
>> PSC (ie your dev mentor) not by the new dev. the dev/trac wiki should
>> say that, but it doesn't. oops
>>
>>
>> I don't doubt that you have a better understanding of the inner  
>> workings
>> of r.drain, r.cost, and r.walk than maybe anyone else here, and that
>> you've been quietly working away on them for months, but the fact  
>> of the
>> matter is that I've never seen a proper patch, so have nothing to  
>> go on
>> to make a judgment right now. sorry.
>>
>> for what it's worth, you don't have to be god's gift to  
>> programming; as
>> far as I can tell most of us here are scientists come self-taught
>> programmers when we needed some tool. luckily there are some real
>> programmers around to keep us in line ;)
>>
>>
>> what I'd suggest is that we stall this vote and apologize for any  
>> mis-
>> understandings, you post your improvements to the bug/wish trac  
>> system,
>> get them reviewed & committed, etc etc. and then sooner or later we  
>> will
>> trust your code and get sick of committing things for you and whoever
>> does most of that committing will make some noises to pick up this  
>> vote
>> where we left off.
>>
>>
>> todo for the rest of us: fix the wiki text and finish rfc3.
>>
>>
>> cheers & I look forward to trying out your contributions*,
>> Hamish
>
> As I am less involved with development, I tend to defer to Hamish's
> judgement on this matter. As a long-time user of r.cost / r.walk /
> r.drain I am excited about new developments in those modules, and
> would like to see Colin eventually contribute his code- post testing.
> I would be happy to assist with testing these modules. Thanks for the
> hard work.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dylan
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> [*] did you see our (ie Ryan's) r.walk penguin nest site selection  
>> project?
>> r.drain did a pretty good job of replicating their well worn paths  
>> up the
>> beach and into the cliffs. neat confirmation. there was also a nice
>> viewshed coupling aspect to it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grass-psc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc
>>
> _______________________________________________
> grass-psc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc

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[Maciej Sieczka]

Colin,

In error, I assumed you were requesting SVN AddOns write access, for
which the procedure is mush less sctrict. I stand corrected now and
fully support Hamish. Don't be discouraged though and, please, keep up
your work on the modules according to Hamish's suggestions.

Best Regards,
Maciek
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[Helena Mitasova]

Talking about SVN access - how about granting full SVN access to  
Markus Metz to work on r.watershed in GRASS7
- he has not officially requested it but he expressed interest in it  
and Markus N. encouraged him to post an official request.

Getting his latest improvements into GRASS7 would make it easier to  
test and we may be able to retire r.terraflow
if his version works well for large DEMs.


Helena
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[Dylan Beaudette]

On Tuesday 09 December 2008, Helena Mitasova wrote:

> Talking about SVN access - how about granting full SVN access to
> Markus Metz to work on r.watershed in GRASS7
> - he has not officially requested it but he expressed interest in it
> and Markus N. encouraged him to post an official request.
>
> Getting his latest improvements into GRASS7 would make it easier to
> test and we may be able to retire r.terraflow
> if his version works well for large DEMs.
>
>
> Helena

+1 on that. Getting Markus Metz access would probably avoid previous
SVN-related mixups.

Cheers,

Dylan


--
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Soil Resource Laboratory
http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341
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[Markus Neteler]

Colin, PSC,

while I have encouraged Colin to post his request to this list
(instead of personally
to me), I am in line with Hamish - we had some offlist discussion about this.

I feel that our procedure is currently yet skewed: while we have contributors
in the Addons area who have provided significant code we did not see
changes from Colin yet (as far as I remember).

My personal feeling is (and that's the original idea of this +/-1 voting stuff)
that things/people need support. And in terms of a programmer it will be
a kind of mentor. So along the lines Hamish was posting.

Colin Nielsen wrote:
> I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
> updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.

Back to the request: improvements are much appreciated! So don't
feel discouraged at all from the fact that we, PSC, didn't work out
RFC3, the voting procedure.
Colin: could you please send in your changes via trac as patches?

Note that Glynn obtained CVS access in 1-2 weeks or so after sending
in first patches :)

Hamish wrote:
> what I'd suggest is that we stall this vote and apologize for any mis-
> understandings, you post your improvements to the bug/wish trac system,
> get them reviewed & committed, etc etc.

I agree here and suggest to stall this vote (Colin: this is no refusal
or whatever!).
As we see with Markus Metz, new programmers can gain trust very quickly,
just we have to see some contributions.

best
Markus
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[Massimiliano Cannata]

Dear all,
I've been away for a period, but I feel I agree with all you.
 From my understanding only people that have already contributed with
code (via addons or patch) and and that have shown their skill can get
SVN access.
So Colin, send your contribute and I'm sure you can get SVN access in
the near future.

Maxi

Markus Neteler wrote:

> Colin, PSC,
>
> while I have encouraged Colin to post his request to this list
> (instead of personally
> to me), I am in line with Hamish - we had some offlist discussion about this.
>
> I feel that our procedure is currently yet skewed: while we have contributors
> in the Addons area who have provided significant code we did not see
> changes from Colin yet (as far as I remember).
>
> My personal feeling is (and that's the original idea of this +/-1 voting stuff)
> that things/people need support. And in terms of a programmer it will be
> a kind of mentor. So along the lines Hamish was posting.
>
> Colin Nielsen wrote:
>  
>> I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
>> updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.
>>    
>
> Back to the request: improvements are much appreciated! So don't
> feel discouraged at all from the fact that we, PSC, didn't work out
> RFC3, the voting procedure.
> Colin: could you please send in your changes via trac as patches?
>
> Note that Glynn obtained CVS access in 1-2 weeks or so after sending
> in first patches :)
>
> Hamish wrote:
>  
>> what I'd suggest is that we stall this vote and apologize for any mis-
>> understandings, you post your improvements to the bug/wish trac system,
>> get them reviewed & committed, etc etc.
>>    
>
> I agree here and suggest to stall this vote (Colin: this is no refusal
> or whatever!).
> As we see with Markus Metz, new programmers can gain trust very quickly,
> just we have to see some contributions.
>
> best
> Markus
> _______________________________________________
> grass-psc mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>
>
>  

--

Dr. Eng. Massimiliano Cannata
Responsabile Area Geomatica
Istituto Scienze della Terra
Scuola Universitaria Professionale della Svizzera Italiana
Via Trevano, c.p. 72
CH-6952 Canobbio-Lugano
Tel: [phone]
Fax [phone]


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[Colin Nielsen]

Hi again PSC,
I completely understand this result, especially since I haven't posted
any addons or trac changes before. To be completely honest, I hadn't
realized that code patches could be posted to the trac/bug system and
was therefore surprised that becoming a full access developer was the
only way to submit my code. I am more than happy to submit my code as
a patch and to have it properly evaluated, checked out, etc. and have
the full access request come along later.

At this point I'll move the discussion of my changes to the dev list
with the intention of returning to the psc list at a later date.
Thanks.

-Colin

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Colin, PSC,
>
> while I have encouraged Colin to post his request to this list
> (instead of personally
> to me), I am in line with Hamish - we had some offlist discussion about this.
>
> I feel that our procedure is currently yet skewed: while we have contributors
> in the Addons area who have provided significant code we did not see
> changes from Colin yet (as far as I remember).
>
> My personal feeling is (and that's the original idea of this +/-1 voting stuff)
> that things/people need support. And in terms of a programmer it will be
> a kind of mentor. So along the lines Hamish was posting.
>
> Colin Nielsen wrote:
>> I am writing to request write access to the SVN so I can make some
>> updates to the r.cost, r.walk and r.drain modules.
>
> Back to the request: improvements are much appreciated! So don't
> feel discouraged at all from the fact that we, PSC, didn't work out
> RFC3, the voting procedure.
> Colin: could you please send in your changes via trac as patches?
>
> Note that Glynn obtained CVS access in 1-2 weeks or so after sending
> in first patches :)
>
> Hamish wrote:
>> what I'd suggest is that we stall this vote and apologize for any mis-
>> understandings, you post your improvements to the bug/wish trac system,
>> get them reviewed & committed, etc etc.
>
> I agree here and suggest to stall this vote (Colin: this is no refusal
> or whatever!).
> As we see with Markus Metz, new programmers can gain trust very quickly,
> just we have to see some contributions.
>
> best
> Markus
>

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[hamish-2]

> todo for the rest of us: fix the wiki text and finish rfc3.

wording on the access to SVN wiki page now updated:
  http://trac.osgeo.org/grass/wiki/HowToContribute


Hamish



     

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[Colin Nielsen]

Hello grass developers,
I am writing to request write access to the Main SVN so I can continue
to maintain the standalone native WinGrass installer, the scripts
related to WinGrass packaging, and the WinGrass release notes on the
website (rather than sending my patches to Markus).

If I work on any bugs requiring C or Python code I plan to continue to
submit this work as patches to the trac system since my coding still
needs reviewing before commit.

I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
contributions (RFC2)", and have an osgeo_id (cnielsen).

Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you require.

-Colin
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[Markus Neteler]

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Colin Nielsen<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello grass developers,
> I am writing to request write access to the Main SVN so I can continue
> to maintain the standalone native WinGrass installer, the scripts
> related to WinGrass packaging, and the WinGrass release notes on the
> website (rather than sending my patches to Markus).
>
> If I work on any bugs requiring C or Python code I plan to continue to
> submit this work as patches to the trac system since my coding still
> needs reviewing before commit.
>
> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
> contributions (RFC2)", and have an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>
> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you require.

I am all for it :-) +1

Markus
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[Michael Barton]

Me too,

+1

Michael
______________________________
C. Michael Barton
Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change
Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ  85287-2402
USA

voice: 480-965-6262; fax: [phone]
www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton

On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Markus Neteler wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Colin  
> Nielsen<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello grass developers,
>> I am writing to request write access to the Main SVN so I can  
>> continue
>> to maintain the standalone native WinGrass installer, the scripts
>> related to WinGrass packaging, and the WinGrass release notes on the
>> website (rather than sending my patches to Markus).
>>
>> If I work on any bugs requiring C or Python code I plan to continue  
>> to
>> submit this work as patches to the trac system since my coding still
>> needs reviewing before commit.
>>
>> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
>> contributions (RFC2)", and have an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>>
>> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you require.
>
> I am all for it :-) +1
>
> Markus
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[Helena Mitasova]

+1 from me too.

Thank you million times for WinGRASS - it allows us to
incorporate GRASS into our GIST program so we are extremely grateful,

Helena


Helena Mitasova
Associate Professor
Department of Marine, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences
North Carolina State University
1125 Jordan Hall
NCSU Box 8208
Raleigh, NC 27695-8208
http://skagit.meas.ncsu.edu/~helena/

email: [hidden email]
ph: 919-513-1327 (no voicemail)
fax [phone]




On Sep 1, 2009, at 3:08 PM, Markus Neteler wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Colin  
> Nielsen<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello grass developers,
>> I am writing to request write access to the Main SVN so I can  
>> continue
>> to maintain the standalone native WinGrass installer, the scripts
>> related to WinGrass packaging, and the WinGrass release notes on the
>> website (rather than sending my patches to Markus).
>>
>> If I work on any bugs requiring C or Python code I plan to continue  
>> to
>> submit this work as patches to the trac system since my coding still
>> needs reviewing before commit.
>>
>> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects of code
>> contributions (RFC2)", and have an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>>
>> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information you require.
>
> I am all for it :-) +1
>
> Markus
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> grass-psc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc

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[Massimiliano Cannata]

Plus 1
Thank-you for the great work

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 15:36:00 -0400
  Helena Mitasova <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 from me too.
>
> Thank you million times for WinGRASS - it allows us to
> incorporate GRASS into our GIST program so we are
>extremely grateful,
>
> Helena
>
>
> Helena Mitasova
> Associate Professor
> Department of Marine, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences
> North Carolina State University
> 1125 Jordan Hall
> NCSU Box 8208
> Raleigh, NC 27695-8208
> http://skagit.meas.ncsu.edu/~helena/
>
> email: [hidden email]
> ph: 919-513-1327 (no voicemail)
> fax [phone]
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 1, 2009, at 3:08 PM, Markus Neteler wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Colin
>> Nielsen<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hello grass developers,
>>> I am writing to request write access to the Main SVN so
>>>I can  continue
>>> to maintain the standalone native WinGrass installer,
>>>the scripts
>>> related to WinGrass packaging, and the WinGrass release
>>>notes on the
>>> website (rather than sending my patches to Markus).
>>>
>>> If I work on any bugs requiring C or Python code I plan
>>>to continue  to
>>> submit this work as patches to the trac system since my
>>>coding still
>>> needs reviewing before commit.
>>>
>>> I have read, and accept, the terms of the "Legal aspects
>>>of code
>>> contributions (RFC2)", and have an osgeo_id (cnielsen).
>>>
>>> Thanks and let me know if there is any more information
>>>you require.
>>
>> I am all for it :-) +1
>>
>> Markus
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>> grass-psc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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_
--------------------------------------
Dr. Massimiliano Cannata
Geomoatic engineer
www.ist.supsi.ch
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