SPI vs Plone Foundation

[Karl Horak]

In a recent LinkedIn dialog, I replied to a MR Ray about why I was not a member of SPI (Software in the Public Interest, Inc.).  I explained that the Plone Foundation handles the same functionality without the distraction of numerous disjointed smaller projects vying for attention and funding.  

Ray replied, "Playing devil's advocate: Why isn't the Plone Foundation just a waste of money duplicating overheads (bank fees, corporation filing fees, ...) when Plone could be part of SPI? Is debian (SPI's largest project) really smaller than Plone?"  

I encourage someone from the Foundation who is in LinkedIn (Nate?) to respond to Ray.  

Re:  Is Debian smaller than Plone?  My research shows attendance at a recent Debian conference to be ~250, which is considerably smaller than Plone conference attendance.  Does anyone else have any comparison points for the size of the Debian community when compared with Plone?

 

[Alexander Limi]

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:01:41 -0700, Karl Horak  
<KEHORAK@...> wrote:

> Ray replied, "Playing devil's advocate: Why isn't the Plone Foundation  
> just
> a waste of money duplicating overheads (bank fees, corporation filing  
> fees,
> ...) when Plone could be part of SPI? Is debian (SPI's largest project)
> really smaller than Plone?"
>
> I encourage someone from the Foundation who is in LinkedIn (Nate?) to
> respond to Ray.

As mentioned in a discussion on this in a different thread — it's not  
about "duplication of effort" or money spent or anything like that. It's  
about focus, and the people involved. Without a razor-sharp focus,  
foundations — especially those run by software developers — tend towards  
becoming very inefficient.

Plone has been blessed with a heck of a team on this front, superstars  
like Jon Stahl, Steve McMahon, Joel Burton, et al — people that are really  
good at the boring, but important work that goes into the Plone  
Foundation, and directs Plone forward while still letting it be mainly  
driven by the community itself.

It's part of the reason why we never wanted to be part of something like  
SPI. Apache was also considered for a while (they do similar things, look  
at their "incubator" process) — but none of them seemed like a good fit  
culturally. We're different, and I shamelessly believe that we have proven  
capable of running the Foundation in the original spirit of Plone. Getting  
some seed money to start with was a good thing too, we avoided a lot of  
the teething problems that foundations seem to go through on the financial  
side of things.

> Is Debian smaller than Plone?  My research shows attendance at a recent
> Debian conference to be ~250, which is considerably smaller than Plone
> conference attendance.  Does anyone else have any comparison points for  
> the size of the Debian community when compared with Plone?

Debian is somewhat notorious for its non-inclusive and hostile community.  
They are probably bigger as a community, but a lot of people jumped ship  
(community-wise) when a more inclusive version of their distro came along  
— Ubuntu. This is not a bad thing, it helps focus — it's just an  
observation from the outside.

(This is not meant as a criticism of Debian, I think they do great work,  
and I have a lot of respect for them — I just don't think they do a good  
job at community management. That's a purely speculative opinion too, I  
haven't really looked into exactly why they seem to have this problem, so  
I might be talking out of my proverbial *** :)

--
Alexander Limi · http://limi.net


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[Jon Stahl]

Karl Horak wrote:

In a recent LinkedIn dialog, I replied to a MR Ray about why I was not a member of SPI (Software in the Public Interest, Inc.).  I explained that the Plone Foundation handles the same functionality without the distraction of numerous disjointed smaller projects vying for attention and funding.  

Ray replied, "Playing devil's advocate: Why isn't the Plone Foundation just a waste of money duplicating overheads (bank fees, corporation filing fees, ...) when Plone could be part of SPI? Is debian (SPI's largest project) really smaller than Plone?"  

I don't think the Foundation has an obligation to respond to any questions that aren't posed to it directly. ;-)

But what I can say, as a current-but-not-there-at-the-founding Plone Foundation board member is this:

I don't know SPI, but I am willing to assume they do good work in the world.

The Plone community chose to create Plone Foundation as a standalone entity for several important reasons, including (but not necessarily limited to):

1) Control over our own fate.  Plone is a very special community with a strongly inclusive ethic.  It was important to the hundreds of people who've contributed thousands of person-hours to Plone that the Plone Foundation be by, of and for the Plone community itself.  We have been fortunate to have had the considerable human (and modest financial) resources that have made this possible.

2) The Plone Foundation, unlike many (but not all) other open-source foundations, actually owns the trademark and intellectual property of Plone.   This is a significant and very valuable asset, and stewarding these assets is a great privilege and a great responsibility.  The Plone community wanted to be sure it -- and nobody else -- is in full control of our shared intellectual property, and the PF allows that to be possible.  

Finally, I'd point out that most of the work involved in maintaining the Foundation's operations is done by volunteers, including the board of directors and Toby Roberts, our indefatigable Treasurer.  The financial costs are pretty minimal.

best,
jon

[Karl Horak]

Jon Stahl wrote:

I don't think the Foundation has an obligation to respond to any questions that aren't posed to it directly. ;-)

Thanks to all for the helpful discussion.  In the interest of completeness, here is Ray's original question verbatim:  

I'm standing for election to the board of Software in the Public Interest this month, so I was wondering how many LinkedIn users who contribute to free and open source software have joined? If so, why? If not, what's stopping you?

LinkedIn members can view the various answers at this link.  

Meanwhile, I've come away from this with a much better understanding of what the PF does and the motivations for it.