Requiem for Sarah Connor

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Dawn Coyote () Requiem for Sarah Connor
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I watched the Terminator, The Sarah Connor Chronicles season finale tonight and learned afterward that it was probably the series finale, as well.

Major bummer.

The storylines were well-developed, the relationships complicated and interesting, and the time-travel paradox was artfully handled. The pacing was smooth and intense. I suppose it was too much to hope that a series with complex, vulnerable but tough female characters and tough but vulnerable male characters who are sometimes under the protection and/or control of the women could appeal to a mainstream audience. Besides its focus on strong female characters, I don't really get why it didn't catch on.

Summer Glau was fascinating as the nearly-human Terminator/protector of John Connor. Thomas Dekker played a complex and compellingly vulnerable young John Connor with very human feelings for his constant cyborg companion. Lena Headey as the grim Sarah Connor was hardcore. Shirley Manson, former lead singer of Garbage, played the liquid metal T-1001 with a chilling aloofness. All four characters were smoking hot, but the erotic tension between the cyborg and the teenage hero was a slow-developing torment. The pseudo sex scene between the two of them in the finale was perfectly played, with a knife as the object of penetration, culminating in John's hand on the Terminator's cold, cold heart. Damn. I'll be on the lookout for all of them in the future, but the idea of not seeing them all in the same place next season breaks my heart a little.

And I don't think I'll be able to watch the new Terminator film. I don't think I can bear to see Thomas Dekker's John Connor grow up to be Christian Bale. It's just wrong.
Edward () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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Well, I need to check on this (not sure I've seen the finale, might still be on the DVR), but I have to disagree with you.  SCC lost its way a long time ago.  John's character failed on every level.  Sorry, but the guy is the supposed future leader of the human resistance, but all we get is awkward teen angst on a perpetual loop.  Really!?  Ugh.  Fail.

The show should have been about Sarah period.  Leave John out of it.  Don't even introduce him as a character.  Unfortunately, even if it had really been the Sarah Connor Chronicles, Sarah's character suffered just like John's and everyone else's.  They were all one note wonders, and unappealing notes at that.  Never developing, never growing, never getting on with it.  Instead, the pained head tilt Sarah unveiled in the first episode proved to be the extend of her emotional repertoire.  Really!?  Ugh.  Fail.

Then there's the reliance on the metal and time travel (unhinged).  First the metal.  With all the metal running around in the SCC universe, don't you think the characters would be kicking themselves for all the trouble they went though trying to destroy it in T2 and change their fate?  And never mind that, at what point do they realize in their own universe that trying to destroy all the metal is pointless?  Never!  Metal is everywhere by the last season and they're still operating under the assumption that there's a chance in hell of a future without it!?  Ugh!  They're practically living in the future they're trying to prevent.  Second, the time travel.  No, they didn't handle the time travel well.  In fact, they should never have resorted to time travel at all (see Heroes).

Then there's the randomness of it all, and the episodes where nothing happened.  I mean really, are you sure you want to sing the show's praises?  As for your criticism of the mainstream, I've got one word for you sister, "Ripley!"

Begin terminator screed...  The first terminator, the one that started it all, is a bit dated, but if you can get past the retro and accept that the fx was as good as it got back then, and watch it for what it was, you'll find it is a very dark and stark movie.  Arnold was a fucking monster, and the humans are fucked.  It's ugly, it's unrelenting, it's a nightmare.  Fast-forward to every terminator franchise since and you've got nothing but slick, campy, silly, polished metal that, when it's not growing old/soft/a personality, it's growing boobs.  So it's hard to hear you say you're not sure if you'll be able to watch Terminator Salvation, the first terminator since the original that promises monsters and grit.
Dawn Coyote () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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Okay. I'm guilty of some selective memory, I admit. In fact, I almost edited my post to change my claim that the storylines were well-developed, because they weren't. Like that big airship that emerged from the ground in one episode showing up without much explanation in the finale? Not so good. Also, the "Some Must Watch While Some Must Sleep" episode (where Cameron goes to the library) was cheap filler that didn't move the plot forward one iota.

Time travel was handled well in some places (though don't ask me for an example), but not in others. Like, John and Derek visiting young Derek and Kyle. I forgot about that one.

I think you're a hard sci-fi fan, while I'm a soft sci-fi fan, which I think means you're a stickler for the science, while I'll go with the story. And I liked this story, independent of the franchise. I liked the relationship between Sarah and John. I liked the way Glau played Cameron. I liked the grim flatness of the characters. They were interesting to watch, and maybe a little familiar. They would all fit right in in Vancouver. Wouldn't even have to change their clothes.

I liked the women in SCC. Sigourney Weaver is always going to be one of my favorite actresses, but there are far too few Ripleys. I hope the new Terminator movie is good. I don't know if I can ever watch Bale in anything again after hearing him scream at that DOP. That, too, is familiar, but not in a comfortable way.

Have you watched any of Dollhouse? It's awful. I'm so disappointed in Joss Whedon. After his rant against Captivity, I was intrigued by where he was going with the concept of programmable humans, but the show was all about hot women as specialized slave-whores, having sex was arguably non-consensual. Joss Whedon needs to return his Feminist ID card. Asshole.
Edward () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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Well, you're right that I'm into hard sci-fi.  But my definition of hard sci-fi includes storytelling that takes into account the full implications of the science fiction.  IOW, thoughtful.  A shared example would be what Slate intended for its message boards vs. what we actually did with its message boards.  It's one thing (easy) to envision a fictional future.  It's another (hard) to create characters who are the product of that future.  So what we all too often get (from Hollywood) are characters whose thoughts and actions seem out of place/pace with the universe they're supposedly living in (like Slate writers jumping into the fray)***.

I've been watching Dollhouse.  I think I agree with you that it's awful.  Not because of the pervasive prostitution (that's probably what would really happen, [see porn industry]), but because the business model simply doesn't work*, and the story arks are already predictable**.

*You could pay regular people to do what the dolls are doing for a fraction of what the Dollhouse charges.  It's called acting.

**Echo's missions aren't interesting / suspenseful unless something goes terribly wrong.  So at what point does the management realize that this doll is more trouble than she's worth?

***Again, a case of a writer failing to appreciate the true implications of the science fiction he has invented.  Whedon's characters and sensibilities and ideas are those of people for whom the dollhouse technology is not a reality.  Truth is, if the tech really existed, the profit would be in education [...] and augmentation, not prostitution. [Edit: , immortality]
Dawn Coyote () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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So the social world of SCC doesn't match the circumstances in which the characters find themselves? I can see that, and I'm usually very impatient with storytelling that strikes me as incongruent, but I enjoyed this. The relationships were interesting, particularly between human/metal (the question of Cameron's ability to "love" John, Catherine Weaver's use of Ellison, etc.), but really, this has all been explored more thoroughly elsewhere. Your objection to the naturalization of metal is interesting. The metal dominates in the story: Weaver, Cameron, etc. Perhaps that's where the story was going, with whatsername's efforts to wedge John away from Cameron, her belief that all metal is evil?

I liked the SCC characters' incongruence with the regular world where people don't realize the end of the human race is imminent. That was fun, but your point is a good one -- a lot of what they're doing doesn't make sense, given what they know. Thinking about that -- the Sopranos characters were fully congruent with their circumstances, as were the Six Feet Under characters. Big Love characters, too, though I hate all of them, and find the show almost unwatchable because of it.

Speaking of plans going awry -- your comment about re-purposing Hunch intrigues me. You mean, like you re-purposed BOTF? Hunch is disappointing. I answered about 800 of those stupid questions, all for naught. The software cannot learn me.

(Feminist rant follows) My objection to Dollhouse is that it appeals to prurient interests while pretending to explore the social context of prostitution from an objective pov. It's bullshit. It's a show about rape, and how rape is okay because, although the dolls can't really consent each time (not being aware/autonomous enough to do so), they consented to become dolls (maybe), and therefore there is a standing consent. I like the idea of exploring the moral underpinnings of all that, but the show is all titillation, and you can't do both. You can't titillate the audience and claim to explore the basis of that titillation*. It's the same goddamn thing as Captivity, to which Whedon so heartily and righteously objected.


ETA: FWIW, I agree about the problem with the Dollhouse business model and the writers' vision of how the technology is applied. It's stupid. Every now and again Logan's Run comes on tv, and I watch a few minutes of it, just for the giggles.

* Um...except when I do it. That's different. (sigh)
Edward () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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Hunch.  I'm still a bit torn.  I think they're on to something--close to something--but it remains to be seen/discovered/stumbled upon...  So in that sense, I've enjoyed thinking about it.  But assuming it doesn't evolve into something else, something unforeseen, I'm with you.  What's more, a cynical part of me sees how they've set up a model that pretends to work toward optimizing answers but is really just a new environment for all the same old battles.

Rant.  Well, regarding standing consent ([another leap in and of itself] assuming they new what they were getting into), I think it's on solid ground.  I get what you're saying re: titillation, but it's not obvious to me as I'm not a fan of the casting (read: none of the dolls are my type).

I gave the show a chance because Whedon did some good work on Buffy.  Word on the street was it was horrible, so I went into it with extremely low expectations.  It wasn't as bad as I expected, but sitting here composing my thoughts about it, I'm starting to wonder why I'm still watching it.  
Dawn Coyote () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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Gerry Canavan (who claims to be "thinking hard", but I think perhaps not hard enough) briefly discusses the pseudo-porn as a study of the problem of porn problem here: http://gerrycanavan.blogspot.com/2009/03/dollhouse-rape-culture-and-women-in.html, earlier quoted Whedon's explanation of the misogyny and identity issues in Dollhouse here: http://gerrycanavan.blogspot.com/2009/02/joss-whedon-is-my-master-now.html

Regarding consent, here's a relevant bit of Whedon's NPR interview:

In the new show's premise, Dushku's character, Echo, is an "active" — someone who has volunteered to have her personality erased. Every week, the Dollhouse installs a new personality into her and sends her out on "engagements" that involve sex, violence and, often, both.

It's a surprising show from someone who, in a 2006 acceptance speech for an award he was given from the women's human rights group Equality Now, said, "The misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who's confronted with it."

Jacki Lyden asks Whedon to explain how a show starring a young female character who has no free will isn't the ultimate misogynistic male fantasy.

"I won't necessarily say that it isn't that," Whedon says. "The fact of the matter is that, in the wrong hands, it is a completely misogynist thing, except it's happening to men as well — but what we're trying to do is take someone's identity away in order to discuss the concept of her identity."

Whedon says the first group he pitched the show to — after Dushku and Fox — was the board of Equality Now.

"I knew that would be the toughest room I would ever sit in," Whedon says. "What I basically told them was I was examining the idea of fantasy, and some of the stuff that would happen would be good, and some of the stuff that would happen would be kind of awful, and that the whole point was going to be to blur those lines, to take what we want from each other sexually, how much power we want to have over each other."

In the second episode, Echo is programmed to have sex with a man who then attempts to kill her with a bow and arrow. Lyden says it has a "snuff-film motif" and asks Whedon why he chose to present this type of main female character.

"Obviously, the point is you have to take control away from her so that she can get it back. Obviously, the man does not kill her," he says.

Whedon says the theme of hiring people for sex was something he and Dushku were eager to explore.

"All of the actives have that as part of their engagements," he says. "And that is something Eliza and I set out to do from the start — she wanted to, before I even came up with the idea, was talking about doing a premise that dealt with sexuality."

Lyden points out one of the uncomfortable aspects of the premise is that Echo "doesn't really have a choice about who she's sleeping with … it isn't consensual."

Whedon agrees. "I'm not saying that nonconsensual sex is ever OK. This is, after all, a science fiction show."

— — —

My verdict: Fail.

At least facebook is giving me something else to do with my Friday nights, with real people, even.

I have a whole other set of issues with facebook, though. Maybe later on that.

ETA: for a different pov, Twisty Faster on consent (scroll down to "The problem wiht consent") http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2009/02/20/two-posts-two-posts-two-posts-in-one/

And another one yet (NSFa&s: "not safe for artandsoul"): http://www.takeninhand.com/node/230 

My point: you can't pretend to be sympathetic to the feminist POV while vicariously enjoying the Taken in Hand POV. Makes me want to tie Whedon up and beat him until he begs for release.
Dawn Coyote () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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In reply to this post by Edward
Oops! Wrong link for Taken in Hand.

Here's the one I was looking for, "When rape is a gift": http://www.takeninhand.com/node/216 

(still NSFa&s)
Edward () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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Okay.  Now THAT was a fun link.    
Dawn Coyote () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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That whole site is appalling and fascinating.

But back to my point -- Whedon says you can't be a storyteller and a speechwriter at the same time. Well, I don't think you can discuss the problems with porn with your hand in your pants, which is what Dollhouse is attempting to do.
artandsoul () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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In reply to this post by Dawn Coyote
Thank you.  I wasn't even tempted to open the link :)

Good discussion here.  I don't have a lot to add, but I'm doing a lot of nodding.

Carry on.
Dawn Coyote () Re: Requiem for Sarah Connor
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I'm glad. I don't want another mishap like the suspension video.