Release Often!

11 messages

Release Often!

Reply Threaded

Hi

I went to the GSoC Mentors Summit with one question on my mind: "Why
don't we have a 2.0 release yet?". So I asked people from many (about
10) other open-source organisations about releasing code. Every one
said 'release often'. Many said 'just set a date and then do it on
that date whatever'.

So I'm proposing a new date for 2.0, since the others have gone bye.
1st December.

I'll try and do a Windows release then, others can do the other
releases if they like, I can't.

TTFN
Martyn

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Ed Musgrove-2

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

There are no P1 bugs open on the release checklist. These are the P2 bugs; I
have edited out some symptoms and discussions but left a few notes affecting
release. I know that some of these things are being discussed, but it might
help to have a brief summary of the status for each of these bugs. This is
not the place to discuss the symptoms, causes and fixes for these bugs; just
let us know if you are working on it, if so, do you want help, and the
general idea of how close you are to understanding/fixing the problem.

P2 (Mac) Hang when scanning for VST effects on fresh install.

P2 Spurious "not writable/disk full" errors when saving projects.
GA: ... If there are no concrete reports of these errors occurring in the
Nightlies by the end of October, I think the bug can be closed.

P2 Desynchronised playback mixing of short regions in different tracks.
GA... If that is the only remaining symptom, it's a minor thing.

P2 v Reverse does not reverse clip boundaries.
GA: Much improved patch by Vidyashankar Vellal has been committed, not yet
fully re-tested by me.

P2 Edit Labels: "start/end times display as zero" fix breaks screen reading
ability.

P2 Nyquist effects join separate clips together.

P2 Boundary drawing problem with Generate and SoundTouch
GA: This may be demoted, subject to discussion. See this thread.

P2 R (Windows) Projects crash when applying repeated effects on zoomed in
regions towards the end of audio tracks

P2 (Windows 7) Runtime Error Program: (location) R6034 on launching
Audacity.
GA: Fixable by user changing compatibility mode to Vista SP2 or XP SP3.

P2 (Windows Vista, 7) Input sources cannot be selected in Mixer Toolbar.
[Ed--] I can confirm and test this but I have not looked at the
code (Windows 7 consumer release, Vista SP2) .

P2 (Windows Vista, 7) Audacity input/output level sliders act independently
of/incorrectly with system level sliders.

--Ed

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martyn Shaw [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 6:41 PM
> To: Audacity Development
> Subject: [Audacity-devel] Release Often!
>
> Hi
>
> I went to the GSoC Mentors Summit with one question on my mind: "Why
> don't we have a 2.0 release yet?". So I asked people from many (about
> 10) other open-source organisations about releasing code. Every one said
> 'release often'. Many said 'just set a date and then do it on that date
> whatever'.
>
> So I'm proposing a new date for 2.0, since the others have gone bye.
> 1st December.
>
> I'll try and do a Windows release then, others can do the other releases

if
> they like, I can't.
>
> TTFN
> Martyn
>
>
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James Crook

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Martyn Shaw-2

Label-linking will be disabled in 2.0 (it will be off and the button
will not be visible). We will enable it in the first beta after 2.0,
but it will still be off unless the user clicks it.

We are in no shape to announce a stable release for Windows 7, so
release notes and announcement e-mails need to make it very clear that
whatever we release is beta quality with regard to Windows 7, whatever
we say about stability on other platforms.

I like your wild optimism that we can do it by 1st Dec.

For me the really important thing is what we do after we have a stable
release off CVS head. The 'release often' is even more important once
we have achieved that. New P1's and P2's will either be regressions
(need to be vigilant and fix them as soon as we are aware) or will be
bugs in new functionality (should be releasable by turning off that
feature). Maintaining a separate stable branch costs a lot of energy,
and we know from experience that good new things do not get ported to
the stable branch. So I would like us to be aiming to release often,
i.e release a stable release often, once we have 2.0.

What else needs to be done to make this happen?

--James.

Martyn Shaw wrote:

> Hi
>
> I went to the GSoC Mentors Summit with one question on my mind: "Why
> don't we have a 2.0 release yet?". So I asked people from many (about
> 10) other open-source organisations about releasing code. Every one
> said 'release often'. Many said 'just set a date and then do it on
> that date whatever'.
>
> So I'm proposing a new date for 2.0, since the others have gone bye.
> 1st December.
>
> I'll try and do a Windows release then, others can do the other
> releases if they like, I can't.
>
> TTFN
> Martyn

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Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

| From James Crook <[hidden email]>
| Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:58:08 +0000
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Release Often!
> ... We are in no shape to announce a stable release for Windows 7, so
> release notes and announcement e-mails need to make it very clear that
> whatever we release is beta quality with regard to Windows 7, whatever
> we say about stability on other platforms.

It's essentially Beta quality with regard to Vista, too
(all but one of the Windows 7 P2s applies to Vista). The
only argument against that statement is that behaviour
on Vista is somewhat more of a known quantity because
we have more reports of it. I have Windows 7 now but of
course lack time to test it much.

> I like your wild optimism that we can do it by 1st Dec.

As I said before, everyone would need to chip in to get the
Manual finished (the shorter the deadline, the more that's
true). For the Manual to be finished without others of us
contributing to it significantly, I'd say we'd be looking at
mid January 2010. Bill and John have done a lot and I've
started reviewing finished pages and marking them (IMO)
as release-ready. Others would have to share that task, and
the missing/ hopelessly outdated pages need to be written
too, unless "release and be damned" applies to the Manual
as well. In that case it needs a Beta health warning too.

> For me the really important thing is what we do after we have a stable
> release off CVS head. The 'release often' is even more important once
> we have achieved that. New P1's and P2's will either be regressions
> (need to be vigilant and fix them as soon as we are aware) or will be
> bugs in new functionality (should be releasable by turning off that
> feature). Maintaining a separate stable branch costs a lot of energy,
> and we know from experience that good new things do not get ported to
> the stable branch. So I would like us to be aiming to release often,
> i.e release a stable release often, once we have 2.0.

I think I'd seen suggestions before of a Stable every year
and a Beta every two or three months. Is that still thought
about right?

Gale

> Martyn Shaw wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I went to the GSoC Mentors Summit with one question on my mind: "Why
> > don't we have a 2.0 release yet?". So I asked people from many (about
> > 10) other open-source organisations about releasing code. Every one
> > said 'release often'. Many said 'just set a date and then do it on
> > that date whatever'.
> >
> > So I'm proposing a new date for 2.0, since the others have gone bye.
> > 1st December.
> >
> > I'll try and do a Windows release then, others can do the other
> > releases if they like, I can't.
> >
> > TTFN
> > Martyn
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
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Ed Musgrove-2

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

I would be happy to pitch in with the Manual work (I seem to have
accidentally start to do so yesterday). I have not looked at it at all (it
does not build locally on Vista or 7) until last night when I was looking at
P2s to test.

--Ed

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gale Andrews [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:34 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Release Often!
>
>
> | From James Crook <[hidden email]>
> | Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:58:08 +0000
> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Release Often!
> > ... We are in no shape to announce a stable release for Windows 7, so
> > release notes and announcement e-mails need to make it very clear that
> > whatever we release is beta quality with regard to Windows 7, whatever
> > we say about stability on other platforms.
>
> It's essentially Beta quality with regard to Vista, too (all but one of

the
> Windows 7 P2s applies to Vista). The only argument against that statement
is
> that behaviour on Vista is somewhat more of a known quantity because we
> have more reports of it. I have Windows 7 now but of course lack time to
test
> it much.
>
> > I like your wild optimism that we can do it by 1st Dec.
>
> As I said before, everyone would need to chip in to get the Manual
finished
> (the shorter the deadline, the more that's true). For the Manual to be
> finished without others of us contributing to it significantly, I'd say
we'd be
> looking at mid January 2010. Bill and John have done a lot and I've
started

> reviewing finished pages and marking them (IMO) as release-ready. Others
> would have to share that task, and the missing/ hopelessly outdated pages
> need to be written too, unless "release and be damned" applies to the
> Manual
> as well. In that case it needs a Beta health warning too.
>
>
> > For me the really important thing is what we do after we have a stable
> > release off CVS head. The 'release often' is even more important once
> > we have achieved that. New P1's and P2's will either be regressions
> > (need to be vigilant and fix them as soon as we are aware) or will be
> > bugs in new functionality (should be releasable by turning off that
> > feature). Maintaining a separate stable branch costs a lot of energy,
> > and we know from experience that good new things do not get ported to
> > the stable branch. So I would like us to be aiming to release often,
> > i.e release a stable release often, once we have 2.0.
>
> I think I'd seen suggestions before of a Stable every year and a Beta

every

> two or three months. Is that still thought about right?
>
>
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> > Martyn Shaw wrote:
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I went to the GSoC Mentors Summit with one question on my mind:
> "Why
> > > don't we have a 2.0 release yet?". So I asked people from many
> > > (about
> > > 10) other open-source organisations about releasing code. Every
> > > one said 'release often'. Many said 'just set a date and then do it
> > > on that date whatever'.
> > >
> > > So I'm proposing a new date for 2.0, since the others have gone bye.
> > > 1st December.
> > >
> > > I'll try and do a Windows release then, others can do the other
> > > releases if they like, I can't.
> > >
> > > TTFN
> > > Martyn
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in
> > SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
> > Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications
> > to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12,
> > 2009. Register now!
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
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> > audacity-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>
>
>

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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Martyn Shaw-2

+1 on the sentiment. Notable that most Americans take a few days off
around Thanksgiving, Nov 26 this year, so scheduling a release shortly
after can be a resource problem, e.g., if we want a few days to check
the rc.

- V

Martyn Shaw wrote:

Vidyashankar Vellal

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Gale (Audacity Team)

I can also help to get the manual finished.

Vidyashankar

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:

As I said before, everyone would need to chip in to get the
Manual finished (the shorter the deadline, the more that's
true). For the Manual to be finished without others of us
contributing to it significantly, I'd say we'd be looking at
mid January 2010. Bill and John have done a lot and I've
started reviewing finished pages and marking them (IMO)
as release-ready. Others would have to share that task, and
the missing/ hopelessly outdated pages need to be written
too, unless "release and be damned" applies to the Manual
as well. In that case it needs a Beta health warning too.

Gale

Michael Chinen

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Gale (Audacity Team)

Hi all,

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> | From James Crook <[hidden email]>
> | Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:58:08 +0000
> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Release Often!
>> ... We are in no shape to announce a stable release for Windows 7, so
>> release notes and announcement e-mails need to make it very clear that
>> whatever we release is beta quality with regard to Windows 7, whatever
>> we say about stability on other platforms.
>
> It's essentially Beta quality with regard to Vista, too
> (all but one of the Windows 7 P2s applies to Vista). The
> only argument against that statement is that behaviour
> on Vista is somewhat more of a known quantity because
> we have more reports of it. I have Windows 7 now but of
> course lack time to test it much.
>
>> I like your wild optimism that we can do it by 1st Dec.
>
> As I said before, everyone would need to chip in to get the
> Manual finished (the shorter the deadline, the more that's
> true). For the Manual to be finished without others of us
> contributing to it significantly, I'd say we'd be looking at
> mid January 2010. Bill and John have done a lot and I've
> started reviewing finished pages and marking them (IMO)
> as release-ready. Others would have to share that task, and
> the missing/ hopelessly outdated pages need to be written
> too, unless "release and be damned" applies to the Manual
> as well. In that case it needs a Beta health warning too.

I'm also in favor of setting the date and simply releasing with what
we've got with the caveat that things are not worse than a Beta
version. if stable does not mean flawless, or even necessarily
complete - just that its gone through enough testing so that the major
bugs in the preceding beta have been discovered and ironed out or
documented - then I think Dec. 1 sounds reasonable to me.
If it's simply not possible to get Vista/Windows 7 into good shape by
that time, I say we label just that platform Beta but still call it
2.0 and release all platforms together from the same CVS tag.

>
>
>> For me the really important thing is what we do after we have a stable
>> release off CVS head. The 'release often' is even more important once
>> we have achieved that. New P1's and P2's will either be regressions
>> (need to be vigilant and fix them as soon as we are aware) or will be
>> bugs in new functionality (should be releasable by turning off that
>> feature). Maintaining a separate stable branch costs a lot of energy,
>> and we know from experience that good new things do not get ported to
>> the stable branch. So I would like us to be aiming to release often,
>> i.e release a stable release often, once we have 2.0.
>
> I think I'd seen suggestions before of a Stable every year
> and a Beta every two or three months. Is that still thought
> about right?

Sounds good,

Michael

>
>
>
>
> Gale
>
>
>> Martyn Shaw wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > I went to the GSoC Mentors Summit with one question on my mind: "Why
>> > don't we have a 2.0 release yet?". So I asked people from many (about
>> > 10) other open-source organisations about releasing code. Every one
>> > said 'release often'. Many said 'just set a date and then do it on
>> > that date whatever'.
>> >
>> > So I'm proposing a new date for 2.0, since the others have gone bye.
>> > 1st December.
>> >
>> > I'll try and do a Windows release then, others can do the other
>> > releases if they like, I can't.
>> >
>> > TTFN
>> > Martyn
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
>> _______________________________________________
>> audacity-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

| From Michael Chinen <[hidden email]>
| Sat, 31 Oct 2009 01:10:08 +0100
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Release Often!

> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > | From James Crook <[hidden email]>
> > | Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:58:08 +0000
> > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Release Often!
> >> ... We are in no shape to announce a stable release for Windows 7, so
> >> release notes and announcement e-mails need to make it very clear that
> >> whatever we release is beta quality with regard to Windows 7, whatever
> >> we say about stability on other platforms.
> >
> > It's essentially Beta quality with regard to Vista, too
> > (all but one of the Windows 7 P2s applies to Vista). The
> > only argument against that statement is that behaviour
> > on Vista is somewhat more of a known quantity because
> > we have more reports of it. I have Windows 7 now but of
> > course lack time to test it much.
> >
> >> I like your wild optimism that we can do it by 1st Dec.
> >
> > As I said before, everyone would need to chip in to get the
> > Manual finished (the shorter the deadline, the more that's
> > true). For the Manual to be finished without others of us
> > contributing to it significantly, I'd say we'd be looking at
> > mid January 2010. Bill and John have done a lot and I've
> > started reviewing finished pages and marking them (IMO)
> > as release-ready. Others would have to share that task, and
> > the missing/ hopelessly outdated pages need to be written
> > too, unless "release and be damned" applies to the Manual
> > as well. In that case it needs a Beta health warning too.
>
> I'm also in favor of setting the date and simply releasing with what
> we've got with the caveat that things are not worse than a Beta
> version. if stable does not mean flawless, or even necessarily
> complete - just that its gone through enough testing so that the major
> bugs in the preceding beta have been discovered and ironed out or
> documented - then I think Dec. 1 sounds reasonable to me.
>
> If it's simply not possible to get Vista/Windows 7 into good shape by
> that time, I say we label just that platform Beta but still call it
> 2.0 and release all platforms together from the same CVS tag.

Vaughan said on "September 14th" in " Are we really getting any closer to
release?":

"I think we shouldn't release 2.0 without the manual being complete. And
I think Windows 7 support is essential."

Stable has always meant "complete" before in terms of translations and
Manual. I believe it's meant at absolute minimum "more stable" than Beta.
In the sense of having tested/ironed out replicable crash bugs, that
will I think be true at release time.

In terms of the unreproducible issues, especially project corruption
which means users lose data (including at the recovery stage when they
accept our "safe" invitation to delete orphans and silence missing data),
we are mostly no farther forward. Waiting may not help much, unless we
really want to do the small blockfile stress-testing we were intending
to. More numerous complaints about "instability" in 2.0 may even give us
some reproducible scenarios we can work with (or may not).

Given addressing "Windows 7 support is essential" probably largely
depends on Leland, shouldn't we try to contact him and see if he can help?
Any other ideas?

If that looks unlikely to lead anywhere, then I certainly agree we may
as well set a date and try and stick to it. I agree with James that Dec.1st
displays "wild optimism" (even for a Stable release that actually only
supports 2000 and XP on our main platform.) I strongly suspect more lead
time is needed (this just does not give everyone reasonable notice IMO).

Gale

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Martyn Shaw-2

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Vaughan Johnson

Thanks Vaughan. Isn't that 'a few days off to work on Audacity'?

Any date will have some national holiday near it, and we are all in
different time zones (I'm fully back in mine now). Let's stick with
the date and suffer the consequences!

TTFN
Martyn

Vaughan Johnson wrote:

> +1 on the sentiment. Notable that most Americans take a few days off
> around Thanksgiving, Nov 26 this year, so scheduling a release shortly
> after can be a resource problem, e.g., if we want a few days to check
> the rc.
>
> - V
>
>
> Martyn Shaw wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I went to the GSoC Mentors Summit with one question on my mind: "Why
>> don't we have a 2.0 release yet?". So I asked people from many (about
>> 10) other open-source organisations about releasing code. Every one
>> said 'release often'. Many said 'just set a date and then do it on
>> that date whatever'.
>>
>> So I'm proposing a new date for 2.0, since the others have gone bye.
>> 1st December.
>>
>> I'll try and do a Windows release then, others can do the other
>> releases if they like, I can't.
>>
>> TTFN
>> Martyn
>>
>

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Alexandre Prokoudine

Re: Release Often!

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Gale (Audacity Team)

On 10/31/09, Gale Andrews wrote:

> Stable has always meant "complete" before in terms of translations and
> Manual.

Eh, with translations last updated back in 2003 and 2005 Audacity
might never reach that state :) Could we possibly announce a longer
translation period and shout a little louder to get more attention
from communities?

Alexandre

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