Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator Azimuth Natural Origin?
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Markus Neteler
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Dear list members,
I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without answer. trying here now: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote: > hi, > > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA. > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails: > > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp /geodata/clcbn85p.shp > ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1 > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +no_defs '. > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90 > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the > following coordinate systems. This may be because they > are not transformable, or because projection services > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded. > Source: > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin", > GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841", > DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid", > SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]], > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0], > UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]], > PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"], > PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907], > PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0], > PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0], > PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0], > PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333], > PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556], > UNIT["Meter",1.0]] > Target: > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA", > GEOGCS["ETRS89", > DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989", > SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042, > AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]], > AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]], > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0], > UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433], > AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]], > UNIT["metre",1, > AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]], > AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]] > > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set... > > thanks > Markus > > [1] http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/geostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html > Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file) > Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection? thank in advance, Markus _______________________________________________ Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj |
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Clifford J Mugnier
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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
Switzerland dropped the Rosenmund Oblique in favor of the Hotine Oblique RSO?
Since when?
C. Mugnier
LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY From: [hidden email] on behalf of Markus Neteler Sent: Fri 10-Jul-09 07:59 To: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions Subject: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin? Dear list members, _______________________________________________ Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj |
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Ziegler Stefan
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In reply to this post
by Markus Neteler
Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
Hi Markus
try this:
ogr2ogr shp_dir/ -s_srs
epsg:21781 -t_srs epsg:3035 clcbn85p.shp
epsg:21781 is forcing
ogr2ogr to use the real swiss prj-definition. Forget the strange definition in
the delivered prj-file.
regards
Stefan > -----Ursprüngliche
Nachricht-----
> Von: Markus Neteler [mailto:[hidden email]] > Gesendet am: Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 14:59 > An: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions > Betreff: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator > Azimuth Natural Origin? > > Dear list members, > > I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without > answer. trying here now: > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus > Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote: > > hi, > > > > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA. > > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails: > > > > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp > /geodata/clcbn85p.shp > > ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc > > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1 > > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m > +no_defs '. > > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90 > > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the > > following coordinate systems. This may be because they > > are not transformable, or because projection services > > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded. > > Source: > > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin", > > GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841", > > DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid", > > SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]], > > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0], > > UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]], > > PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"], > > PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907], > > PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0], > > PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0], > > PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0], > > PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333], > > PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556], > > UNIT["Meter",1.0]] > > Target: > > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA", > > GEOGCS["ETRS89", > > DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989", > > SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042, > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]], > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]], > > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0], > > UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433], > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]], > > UNIT["metre",1, > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]], > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]] > > > > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set... > > > > thanks > > Markus > > > > [1] > http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/g eostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html > Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file) > Is there a way to enable
PROJ4 to support this projection?
thank in
advance,
Markus _______________________________________________ Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj _______________________________________________ Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj |
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Markus Neteler
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Hi Stefan,
I should have asked earlier here :) Thanks a lot. However, the map seems to be shifted for 200-300 meters. If there any datum which I should specify? This reminds me of http://trac.osgeo.org/grass/ticket/35 Best regards Markus Neteler On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Ziegler Stefan<[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Markus > try this: > ogr2ogr shp_dir/ -s_srs epsg:21781 -t_srs epsg:3035 clcbn85p.shp > epsg:21781 is forcing ogr2ogr to use the real swiss prj-definition. Forget > the strange definition in the delivered prj-file. > regards > Stefan >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Markus Neteler [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Gesendet am: Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 14:59 >> An: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions >> Betreff: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator >> Azimuth Natural Origin? >> >> Dear list members, >> >> I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without >> answer. trying here now: >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus >> Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote: >> > hi, >> > >> > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA. >> > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails: >> > >> > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp >> /geodata/clcbn85p.shp >> > ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc >> > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1 >> > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m >> +no_defs '. >> > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90 >> > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the >> > following coordinate systems. This may be because they >> > are not transformable, or because projection services >> > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded. >> > Source: >> > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin", >> > GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841", >> > DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid", >> > SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]], >> > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0], >> > UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]], >> > PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"], >> > PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907], >> > PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0], >> > PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0], >> > PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0], >> > PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333], >> > PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556], >> > UNIT["Meter",1.0]] >> > Target: >> > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA", >> > GEOGCS["ETRS89", >> > DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989", >> > SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042, >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]], >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]], >> > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0], >> > UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433], >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]], >> > UNIT["metre",1, >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]], >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]] >> > >> > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set... >> > >> > thanks >> > Markus >> > >> > [1] >> http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/g > eostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html >> Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file) >> > Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection? > thank in advance, > Markus > _______________________________________________ > Proj mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj |
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Gerald I. Evenden
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In reply to this post
by Clifford J Mugnier
On Friday 10 July 2009 9:35:59 am Clifford J Mugnier wrote:
> Switzerland dropped the Rosenmund Oblique in favor of the Hotine Oblique > RSO? > > Since when? > > C. Mugnier > LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY Except for the false easting and northing, the other factors look similar to proj's proj=somerc projection parameters which brings up a point: I never saw a name declared anywhere for this projection which is basically a Gauss transformation to the sphere followed by coordinate shift on the shere. In the case of the Swiss usage the polar axis is shifted in the plane of the central meridian until the equator is at the central point: lon_0=7d26'22.50" lat_0=46d57'08.66" Hotine usage for Swiss projections keep comming up but I question that the Swiss ever used Hotine for anything domestic. > > ________________________________ > > From: [hidden email] on behalf of Markus Neteler > Sent: Fri 10-Jul-09 07:59 > To: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions > Subject: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique > MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin? > > > > Dear list members, > > I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without > answer. trying here now: > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote: > > hi, > > > > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA. > > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails: > > > > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp > > /geodata/clcbn85p.shp ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with > > `+proj=omerc > > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1 > > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +no_defs '. > > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90 > > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the > > following coordinate systems. This may be because they > > are not transformable, or because projection services > > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded. > > Source: > > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin", > > GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841", > > DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid", > > SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]], > > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0], > > UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]], > > PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"], > > PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907], > > PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0], > > PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0], > > PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0], > > PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333], > > PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556], > > UNIT["Meter",1.0]] > > Target: > > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA", > > GEOGCS["ETRS89", > > DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989", > > SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042, > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]], > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]], > > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0], > > UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433], > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]], > > UNIT["metre",1, > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]], > > AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]] > > > > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set... > > > > thanks > > Markus > > > > [1] > > http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/geostat/date > >nbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover > > Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file) > > Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection? > > thank in advance, > Markus -- The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum. -- Havelock Ellis (1859-1939) British psychologist _______________________________________________ Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj |
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Clifford J Mugnier
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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
Prof. Rosenmund cooked up his projection in 1910 for the national projection of Switzerland. Brigadier Martin Hotine cooked up his in 1948 for Malaya and Borneo.
C. Mugnier From: [hidden email] on behalf of Gerald I. Evenden Sent: Fri 10-Jul-09 09:53 To: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions Subject: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuthNatural Origin? On Friday 10 July 2009 9:35:59 am Clifford J Mugnier wrote: _______________________________________________ Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj |
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Clifford J Mugnier
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In reply to this post
by Markus Neteler
Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
I believe the current datums are: "CH1903+" and "CHTRS95."
See my August 2001 column on Switzerland at: www.ASPRS.org/resources/grids .
C. Mugnier From: [hidden email] on behalf of Markus Neteler Sent: Fri 10-Jul-09 09:18 To: Ziegler Stefan Cc: proj Subject: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin? Hi Stefan, _______________________________________________ Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj |
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Ziegler Stefan
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In reply to this post
by Markus Neteler
Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
Hi Markus
please check in the proj4
epsg-file the definition of 21781. It needs the +towgs84 parameter:
+proj=somerc
+lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lon_0=7.439583333333333 +x_0=600000 +y_0=200000
+ellps=bessel +towgs84=674.374,15.056,405.346,0,0,0,0 +units=m +no_defs
The 200 meters shift sounds
a bit like a forgotten towgs84 parameter but that's just a guess.
Does the Grass ticket still needs some clarification? regards
Stefan > -----Ursprüngliche
Nachricht-----
> Von: Markus Neteler [mailto:[hidden email]] > Gesendet am: Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 16:18 > An: Ziegler Stefan > Cc: proj > Betreff: Re: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique > Mercator Azimuth Natural Origin? > > Hi Stefan, > > I should have asked earlier here :) Thanks a lot. > However, the map seems to be shifted for 200-300 meters. > If there any datum which I should specify? This reminds me > of > http://trac.osgeo.org/grass/ticket/35 > > Best regards > Markus Neteler > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Ziegler > Stefan<[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi Markus > > try this: > > ogr2ogr shp_dir/ -s_srs epsg:21781 -t_srs epsg:3035 clcbn85p.shp > > epsg:21781 is forcing ogr2ogr to use the real swiss > prj-definition. Forget > > the strange definition in the delivered prj-file. > > regards > > Stefan > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > >> Von: Markus Neteler [mailto:[hidden email]] > >> Gesendet am: Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 14:59 > >> An: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions > >> Betreff: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine > Oblique Mercator > >> Azimuth Natural Origin? > >> > >> Dear list members, > >> > >> I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without > >> answer. trying here now: > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus > >> Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> > hi, > >> > > >> > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] > into LAEA. > >> > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the > transformation fails: > >> > > >> > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp > >> /geodata/clcbn85p.shp > >> > ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc > >> > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1 > >> > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m > >> +no_defs '. > >> > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90 > >> > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the > >> > following coordinate systems. This may be because they > >> > are not transformable, or because projection services > >> > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded. > >> > Source: > >> > > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin", > >> > GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841", > >> > DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid", > >> > SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]], > >> > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0], > >> > UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]], > >> > PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"], > >> > PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907], > >> > PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0], > >> > PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0], > >> > PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0], > >> > PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333], > >> > PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556], > >> > UNIT["Meter",1.0]] > >> > Target: > >> > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA", > >> > GEOGCS["ETRS89", > >> > DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989", > >> > SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042, > >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]], > >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]], > >> > PRIMEM["Greenwich",0], > >> > UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433], > >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]], > >> > UNIT["metre",1, > >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]], > >> > AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]] > >> > > >> > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set... > >> > > >> > thanks > >> > Markus > >> > > >> > [1] > >> http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/g > > eostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html > >> Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file) > >> > > Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection? > > thank in advance, > > Markus > > _______________________________________________ > > Proj mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj > _______________________________________________ Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj |
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Paul Kelly
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On Sat, 11 Jul 2009, Ziegler Stefan wrote:
> Hi Markus > > please check in the proj4 epsg-file the definition of 21781. It needs > the +towgs84 parameter: > > +proj=somerc +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lon_0=7.439583333333333 > +x_0=600000 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel > +towgs84=674.374,15.056,405.346,0,0,0,0 +units=m +no_defs > > The 200 meters shift sounds a bit like a forgotten towgs84 parameter but > that's just a guess. Does the Grass ticket still needs some > clarification? What would be really interesting to understand would be the origins of the parameters given in the August 2001 PE & RS Grids & Datums Column on Switzerland (<http://www.asprs.org/resources/grids/08-2001-swiss.pdf>) as they are what the parameters in GRASS were originally based on. The article states: "Transforming the CH1903+ Datum the to CHTRS95 Datum (WGS84 ellipsoid) then is accomplished by dX = +674.253m, dY = +015.053m, dZ = +405.324m, according to the Swiss Federal Office of Topography." This is what GRASS has been using up to now. So why the subtle difference in the parameters from the set previously given? In addition the article goes on to state: "According to the Swiss Federal Office of Topography, the seven-parameter Datum shift from CH1903+ to WGS84 is: dX = +660.077m +/- 4.055m, dY = +013.551m +/- 4.816m, dZ = +369.344m +/- 3.914m, alpha = 2.484 cc +/- 0.417cc, beta = 1.783 cc +/- 0.455cc, gamma = 2.939 cc +/- 0.411cc, and M = 1.000000566 +/- 0.000000052." What do these parameters relate to? I'm very confused. The other point worth mentioning is that we won't be able to use the NTv2 grid file in GRASS since (as previously discussed on this list) it transforms from CH1903 to CH1903+, rather than to WGS84 (or a closely "WGS84-compatible" datum) as most gridshift files do. Best regards Paul _______________________________________________ Proj mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj |
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