Re: Methods for writing non-Roman scripts?Thank you both for these informative posts
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William Magee
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Thank you both for these informative posts.
I am not sure I understand precisely how to implement xytext (and Tibetan has over 200 characters) but I will continue to look into it. Meanwhile, using Scim Tibetan language support (with its included transliteration parser) and Ubuntu Gnome I see that I am able to input Tibetan directly into chat as well as into scripts. However, all parties viewing the chat or hovering text must have a Tibetan unicode font installed, and some form of Tibetan input on non-Linux systems to participate in the discussion. This may make direct input hard to set up for some students, but still very useful for conference presentations! Scim is easy to install under Ubuntu: sudo apt-get install scim-m17n Then activate the Tibetan option in System / Admin / Language Support. Turn on and off with Ctr-space. Bob's your Uncle. Thanks again! Bill On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Eloise Pasteur <[hidden email]> wrote: > In addition, SL supports UTF8 in scripts, so if Tibetan is represented that > way you can create hovertext and have scripted objects speak in Tibetan > characters, as well as, assuming you have a keyboard that produces them (or > you're good on your UTF8 codes), you can write tibetan characters directly > into SL. > El. > On 25 Oct 2009, at 09:30, Salahzar Stenvaag wrote: > > Hi, since I was in SL I was investigating how to express textual content in > SL since it was clearly lacking ANY support for this. > And when I found out the xytext solution I was quite struck by its power, > genius, and after all, simplicity. > XyText was lacking any supporto for non-english text, while I was living in > Europe and simple characters for Italian, Spanish or French > were lacking. > So I "fixed" this lacune internationalizing the xytext with full support of > utf-8. You can find some of these investigations here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/XyzzyText-UTF8 > If Tibetan alphabet is included in utf8 schema (ant includes less than 100 > distinct symbols) you can exploit this technology for have high quality > boards. > My original project involved with a unique texture with 200 symbols laid in > a predefined order, but requires 1 prim for every 5 characters to be drawn, > which > requires quite a lot of prims (around 70-100) if you need a quite expressive > board. > I also started a project named zztext > (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ZZText) for a low prim yet relatively low > quality character rendering, which includes upload of 35 textures (350L$) > Benefit of this 2nd solution is that you can use a board of around 30-40 > prims to display your information. > I also have seen some other solutions involving a bot: you communicate your > notecard or text to the bot who render the text on a texture and then > uploads on the fly it. > This latest solution can be quite technologically demanding since you have > to program your own c# program on your server to handle bot interaction > using libopenmvs libraries. > NOTE on bots: > Usage of bots is not clearly understood if acceptable by Linden: so far as I > know it is "tolerated" like superprims if used for nospam, educational > purpose, but not clear if they will be banned somewhere in the next months > :( > Currently they are surely forbidden if you use them to "artificially" > increase the traffic of your parcel for marketing purposes. > NOTE on xytext: > while xytext was published since 2006 as opensource on wiki text it always > lacked a documentation for building the charset itself. My main contribution > was to provide some opensource scripts for doing these layout using > photoshop vbscript or gimp python-fu or script-fu scripts. (I'm still not > completely happy with the zztext gimp scripts, needing probably some > refinement). > > Greetings from Italy, > salahzar stenvaag > please email or IM me if you want to try a xytext utf8 solution. > _______________________________________________ > Educators mailing list > To unsubscribe > https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators > > http://educationaldesigns.eloisepasteur.net/ > http://eloisepasteur.net/blog/ > SL Education collaboration forum: http://forum.eloisepasteur.net/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Educators mailing list > To unsubscribe > https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators > > -- William Magee, Ph.D. Tibetan Section Dharma Drum Buddhist College Jinshan, Taiwan http://magee.ddbc.edu.tw _______________________________________________ Educators mailing list To unsubscribe https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators |
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Salahzar Stenvaag
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Are tibetan characters all those listed here: http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/bylanguage/tibetanchart.html
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If you can point me to the effective list and count of characters needed for Tibetan I can effectively adjust the xytext 5-chars for a prim procedure to include them even if they are more than 100 actually I think that we can put up to 400 chars in a 1024x1024 texture, and still keep a high quality rendering for each characters. (Original xytext used 512x512 texture with 80 chars inside if I remembered correctly).
The boring part of the procedure is to choose the listing of chars and to compose the UTF8 equivalence list in the scripts. Since characters are rendered using part of a texture they will be seen by any browser without needing to install anything particular on clients.
salahzar Charles de Gaulle - "The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs." On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 13:29, William Magee <[hidden email]> wrote: Thank you both for these informative posts. _______________________________________________ Educators mailing list To unsubscribe https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators |
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William Magee
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Dear Salahzar,
Greetings from Taiwan! Alas, the character set only includes a few of the Tibetan "stacks", which are handled as ligatures. I am looking around for a complete reference of all the stacks, but my memory says there are 250 or so. When I find it I will communicate with you off-list. Your help is warmly appreciated. Bill On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Salahzar Stenvaag <[hidden email]> wrote: > Are tibetan characters all those listed > here: http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/bylanguage/tibetanchart.html > ? > If you can point me to the effective list and count of characters needed for > Tibetan > I can effectively adjust the xytext 5-chars for a prim procedure to include > them even if they are more than 100 actually I think that we can put up to > 400 chars in a 1024x1024 texture, and still keep a high quality rendering > for each characters. (Original xytext used 512x512 texture with 80 chars > inside if I remembered correctly). > The boring part of the procedure is to choose the listing of chars and to > compose the UTF8 equivalence list in the scripts. > Since characters are rendered using part of a texture they will be seen by > any browser without needing to install anything particular on clients. > salahzar > > > Charles de Gaulle - "The better I get to know men, the more I find myself > loving dogs." > > On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 13:29, William Magee <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Thank you both for these informative posts. >> >> I am not sure I understand precisely how to implement xytext (and >> Tibetan has over 200 characters) but I will continue to look into it. >> >> Meanwhile, using Scim Tibetan language support (with its included >> transliteration parser) and Ubuntu Gnome I see that I am able to input >> Tibetan directly into chat as well as into scripts. However, all >> parties viewing the chat or hovering text must have a Tibetan unicode >> font installed, and some form of Tibetan input on non-Linux systems to >> participate in the discussion. This may make direct input hard to set >> up for some students, but still very useful for conference >> presentations! >> >> Scim is easy to install under Ubuntu: sudo apt-get install scim-m17n >> >> Then activate the Tibetan option in System / Admin / Language Support. >> >> Turn on and off with Ctr-space. >> >> Bob's your Uncle. >> >> Thanks again! >> >> Bill >> >> On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Eloise Pasteur <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >> > In addition, SL supports UTF8 in scripts, so if Tibetan is represented >> > that >> > way you can create hovertext and have scripted objects speak in Tibetan >> > characters, as well as, assuming you have a keyboard that produces them >> > (or >> > you're good on your UTF8 codes), you can write tibetan characters >> > directly >> > into SL. >> > El. >> > On 25 Oct 2009, at 09:30, Salahzar Stenvaag wrote: >> > >> > Hi, since I was in SL I was investigating how to express textual content >> > in >> > SL since it was clearly lacking ANY support for this. >> > And when I found out the xytext solution I was quite struck by its >> > power, >> > genius, and after all, simplicity. >> > XyText was lacking any supporto for non-english text, while I was living >> > in >> > Europe and simple characters for Italian, Spanish or French >> > were lacking. >> > So I "fixed" this lacune internationalizing the xytext with full support >> > of >> > utf-8. You can find some of these investigations here: >> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/XyzzyText-UTF8 >> > If Tibetan alphabet is included in utf8 schema (ant includes less than >> > 100 >> > distinct symbols) you can exploit this technology for have high quality >> > boards. >> > My original project involved with a unique texture with 200 symbols laid >> > in >> > a predefined order, but requires 1 prim for every 5 characters to be >> > drawn, >> > which >> > requires quite a lot of prims (around 70-100) if you need a quite >> > expressive >> > board. >> > I also started a project named zztext >> > (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ZZText) for a low prim yet relatively >> > low >> > quality character rendering, which includes upload of 35 textures >> > (350L$) >> > Benefit of this 2nd solution is that you can use a board of around 30-40 >> > prims to display your information. >> > I also have seen some other solutions involving a bot: you communicate >> > your >> > notecard or text to the bot who render the text on a texture and then >> > uploads on the fly it. >> > This latest solution can be quite technologically demanding since you >> > have >> > to program your own c# program on your server to handle bot interaction >> > using libopenmvs libraries. >> > NOTE on bots: >> > Usage of bots is not clearly understood if acceptable by Linden: so far >> > as I >> > know it is "tolerated" like superprims if used for nospam, educational >> > purpose, but not clear if they will be banned somewhere in the next >> > months >> > :( >> > Currently they are surely forbidden if you use them to "artificially" >> > increase the traffic of your parcel for marketing purposes. >> > NOTE on xytext: >> > while xytext was published since 2006 as opensource on wiki text it >> > always >> > lacked a documentation for building the charset itself. My main >> > contribution >> > was to provide some opensource scripts for doing these layout using >> > photoshop vbscript or gimp python-fu or script-fu scripts. (I'm still >> > not >> > completely happy with the zztext gimp scripts, needing probably some >> > refinement). >> > >> > Greetings from Italy, >> > salahzar stenvaag >> > please email or IM me if you want to try a xytext utf8 solution. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Educators mailing list >> > To unsubscribe >> > https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators >> > >> > http://educationaldesigns.eloisepasteur.net/ >> > http://eloisepasteur.net/blog/ >> > SL Education collaboration forum: http://forum.eloisepasteur.net/ >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Educators mailing list >> > To unsubscribe >> > https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> William Magee, Ph.D. >> Tibetan Section >> Dharma Drum Buddhist College >> Jinshan, Taiwan >> http://magee.ddbc.edu.tw >> _______________________________________________ >> Educators mailing list >> To unsubscribe >> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators > > > _______________________________________________ > Educators mailing list > To unsubscribe > https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators > > -- William Magee, Ph.D. Tibetan Section Dharma Drum Buddhist College Jinshan, Taiwan http://magee.ddbc.edu.tw _______________________________________________ Educators mailing list To unsubscribe https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators |
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William Magee
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Wow. There are 770 stacks comprising the possible characters of the
Tibetan language. For this reason, we always employ a parser when typing Tibetan. Cheers, Bill On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 5:20 AM, William Magee <[hidden email]> wrote: > Dear Salahzar, > > Greetings from Taiwan! > > Alas, the character set only includes a few of the Tibetan "stacks", > which are handled as ligatures. I am looking around for a complete > reference of all the stacks, but my memory says there are 250 or so. > When I find it I will communicate with you off-list. > > Your help is warmly appreciated. > > Bill > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Salahzar Stenvaag <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Are tibetan characters all those listed >> here: http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/bylanguage/tibetanchart.html >> ? >> If you can point me to the effective list and count of characters needed for >> Tibetan >> I can effectively adjust the xytext 5-chars for a prim procedure to include >> them even if they are more than 100 actually I think that we can put up to >> 400 chars in a 1024x1024 texture, and still keep a high quality rendering >> for each characters. (Original xytext used 512x512 texture with 80 chars >> inside if I remembered correctly). >> The boring part of the procedure is to choose the listing of chars and to >> compose the UTF8 equivalence list in the scripts. >> Since characters are rendered using part of a texture they will be seen by >> any browser without needing to install anything particular on clients. >> salahzar >> >> >> Charles de Gaulle - "The better I get to know men, the more I find myself >> loving dogs." >> >> On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 13:29, William Magee <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Thank you both for these informative posts. >>> >>> I am not sure I understand precisely how to implement xytext (and >>> Tibetan has over 200 characters) but I will continue to look into it. >>> >>> Meanwhile, using Scim Tibetan language support (with its included >>> transliteration parser) and Ubuntu Gnome I see that I am able to input >>> Tibetan directly into chat as well as into scripts. However, all >>> parties viewing the chat or hovering text must have a Tibetan unicode >>> font installed, and some form of Tibetan input on non-Linux systems to >>> participate in the discussion. This may make direct input hard to set >>> up for some students, but still very useful for conference >>> presentations! >>> >>> Scim is easy to install under Ubuntu: sudo apt-get install scim-m17n >>> >>> Then activate the Tibetan option in System / Admin / Language Support. >>> >>> Turn on and off with Ctr-space. >>> >>> Bob's your Uncle. >>> >>> Thanks again! >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Eloise Pasteur <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>> > In addition, SL supports UTF8 in scripts, so if Tibetan is represented >>> > that >>> > way you can create hovertext and have scripted objects speak in Tibetan >>> > characters, as well as, assuming you have a keyboard that produces them >>> > (or >>> > you're good on your UTF8 codes), you can write tibetan characters >>> > directly >>> > into SL. >>> > El. >>> > On 25 Oct 2009, at 09:30, Salahzar Stenvaag wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi, since I was in SL I was investigating how to express textual content >>> > in >>> > SL since it was clearly lacking ANY support for this. >>> > And when I found out the xytext solution I was quite struck by its >>> > power, >>> > genius, and after all, simplicity. >>> > XyText was lacking any supporto for non-english text, while I was living >>> > in >>> > Europe and simple characters for Italian, Spanish or French >>> > were lacking. >>> > So I "fixed" this lacune internationalizing the xytext with full support >>> > of >>> > utf-8. You can find some of these investigations here: >>> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/XyzzyText-UTF8 >>> > If Tibetan alphabet is included in utf8 schema (ant includes less than >>> > 100 >>> > distinct symbols) you can exploit this technology for have high quality >>> > boards. >>> > My original project involved with a unique texture with 200 symbols laid >>> > in >>> > a predefined order, but requires 1 prim for every 5 characters to be >>> > drawn, >>> > which >>> > requires quite a lot of prims (around 70-100) if you need a quite >>> > expressive >>> > board. >>> > I also started a project named zztext >>> > (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ZZText) for a low prim yet relatively >>> > low >>> > quality character rendering, which includes upload of 35 textures >>> > (350L$) >>> > Benefit of this 2nd solution is that you can use a board of around 30-40 >>> > prims to display your information. >>> > I also have seen some other solutions involving a bot: you communicate >>> > your >>> > notecard or text to the bot who render the text on a texture and then >>> > uploads on the fly it. >>> > This latest solution can be quite technologically demanding since you >>> > have >>> > to program your own c# program on your server to handle bot interaction >>> > using libopenmvs libraries. >>> > NOTE on bots: >>> > Usage of bots is not clearly understood if acceptable by Linden: so far >>> > as I >>> > know it is "tolerated" like superprims if used for nospam, educational >>> > purpose, but not clear if they will be banned somewhere in the next >>> > months >>> > :( >>> > Currently they are surely forbidden if you use them to "artificially" >>> > increase the traffic of your parcel for marketing purposes. >>> > NOTE on xytext: >>> > while xytext was published since 2006 as opensource on wiki text it >>> > always >>> > lacked a documentation for building the charset itself. My main >>> > contribution >>> > was to provide some opensource scripts for doing these layout using >>> > photoshop vbscript or gimp python-fu or script-fu scripts. (I'm still >>> > not >>> > completely happy with the zztext gimp scripts, needing probably some >>> > refinement). >>> > >>> > Greetings from Italy, >>> > salahzar stenvaag >>> > please email or IM me if you want to try a xytext utf8 solution. >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Educators mailing list >>> > To unsubscribe >>> > https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators >>> > >>> > http://educationaldesigns.eloisepasteur.net/ >>> > http://eloisepasteur.net/blog/ >>> > SL Education collaboration forum: http://forum.eloisepasteur.net/ >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Educators mailing list >>> > To unsubscribe >>> > https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> William Magee, Ph.D. >>> Tibetan Section >>> Dharma Drum Buddhist College >>> Jinshan, Taiwan >>> http://magee.ddbc.edu.tw >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Educators mailing list >>> To unsubscribe >>> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Educators mailing list >> To unsubscribe >> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators >> >> > > > > -- > William Magee, Ph.D. > Tibetan Section > Dharma Drum Buddhist College > Jinshan, Taiwan > http://magee.ddbc.edu.tw > -- William Magee, Ph.D. Tibetan Section Dharma Drum Buddhist College Jinshan, Taiwan http://magee.ddbc.edu.tw _______________________________________________ Educators mailing list To unsubscribe https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators |
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