Re: Marketing Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4
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daniele.ocu ocu
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I worked with Google Adwords for a couple of years a while back, a lot has changed since then.
A nice tool for getting new Keywords (apart from of corse Googles own tool) is: http://freekeywords.wordtracker.com/ Another great sour of information on PayPerClick advertising is the Marketing Experiments Website. Really interesting to have a look at the Webclinics http://www.marketingexperiments.com/index.php?searchword=adwords&option=search&x=0&y=0 Daniele On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:00 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote: Send Marketing mailing list submissions to _______________________________________________ Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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Peter Batty
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A couple of thoughts ... I think that if people are specifically looking for open source geospatial solutions, conference, etc they probably find OSGeo and FOSS4G pretty readily (and if not a bit of simple SEO tweaking should do the trick).
For example, if you google for Open Source Geospatial then osgeo.org is the top hit. If you google for Open Source GIS then we move down to fifth, but still on the front page (we might want to mention the phrase open source GIS more or add it to the keywords in the page metadata if it's not there, if we think that's a phrase we want to be top for).
If we are going to pay for adwords then I would vote they should be something that would not otherwise show up OSGeo sites - for example generic terms like "web mapping" or "spatial database", or names of commercial competitors like "ESRI".
If I had a small budget to experiment with this, I would probably add a page to the OSGeo site focused on users of existing closed source GIS (or possibly ESRI specifically) - something pretty concise and punchy, like "top 5 reasons why you should consider an open source web mapping platform" (and perhaps "in conjunction with your existing GIS"?), and then pay to have the keyword ESRI return that page in the list. And we need to make sure we have the appropriate stats tracking to see how well it's working. Google Analytics integrates with their advertising stuff so that is probably the obvious choice.
I'd be happy to volunteer a bit of time to help with this. Cheers, Peter.
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:51 AM, daniele.ocu ocu <[hidden email]> wrote: I worked with Google Adwords for a couple of years a while back, a lot has changed since then. -- Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954 Blog: http://geothought.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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Josh Livni
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This may have been mentioned already as I have not really been following this conversation, but you may wish to look into google's grants of some free adwords $ for nonprofits
-Josh On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Peter Batty <[hidden email]> wrote: A couple of thoughts ... I think that if people are specifically looking for open source geospatial solutions, conference, etc they probably find OSGeo and FOSS4G pretty readily (and if not a bit of simple SEO tweaking should do the trick). _______________________________________________ Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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Dave McIlhagga
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In reply to this post
by Peter Batty
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The only issue with competing for Google search terms that include commercial product brands is that many of these companies are active adopters and contributors to OSGeo projects. Note that ESRI is among this group. Competing with your partners for eyeballs is a line you need to walk carefully.Also - I'm not sure that promoting the "us vs. them" of "open vs. proprietary" is a very healthy approach for the organization. Dave Dave McIlhagga On 2009-10-20, at 11:41 AM, Peter Batty wrote: A couple of thoughts ... I think that if people are specifically looking for open source geospatial solutions, conference, etc they probably find OSGeo and FOSS4G pretty readily (and if not a bit of simple SEO tweaking should do the trick). _______________________________________________ Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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Peter Batty
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Dave,
The mission of OSGeo is "To support the development of open source geospatial software, and promote its widespread use" (http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/about.html). By definition if someone is using an OSGeo product for something, that is a lost opportunity for a closed source software company to make some money.
While ESRI and other closed source vendors may make use of some open source code within their offerings, and as part of this they may contribute, that is a very lightweight "partnership". ESRI is not a sponsor of OSGeo. I have never heard of a situation where ESRI has suggested the use of MapServer instead of ArcGIS Server (for instance), nor would I expect them to ever do that. It is in that context that I refer to ESRI as a "competitor" of OSGeo (they and others may be both competitors and contributors depending on the context).
Nowhere did I suggest that you should only use open source geospatial software (I happen to not believe that), and my suggested wording was "reasons why you should consider an open source web mapping platform", which is all pretty low key and reasonable I thought.
In short, if we can't say to someone who is interested in finding out more about ESRI, "here's an open source alternative you might want to consider", I'm not really sure how we can can carry out OSGeo's mission to promote widespread use of open source, or why we have this mailing list?
Cheers, Peter. On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Dave McIlhagga <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954 Blog: http://geothought.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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Dave McIlhagga
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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
Hi Peter,You're right - it is a tricky line. I suppose a better example would be MapGuide Enterprise which is a proprietary product, but developed with significant support from Autodesk. Is running an OSGeo adword targeting searches of AutoCAD Map or MapGuide Enterprise and promoting QGIS and MapServer (or even MapGuide Open Source) appropriate? All I'm saying is that it is a very fine line -- especially if you *do* want to attract corporate sponsors of the foundation who may have proprietary geospatial products built with open source components. ESRI, Google, Intergraph and Safe Software are all proprietary software providers who have open source components within their offerings. If we're truly open -- we should be striving to find better ways to work with these organizations just as we do with everyone else. Dave On 2009-10-20, at 2:24 PM, Peter Batty wrote: Dave, _______________________________________________ Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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Tyler Mitchell
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Thanks for the brainstorming guys! Once I'm back in action from traveling, I'll dig up the 100 or 200 dollars in "free" adwords that Google sent me in the mail and we can experiment.
Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave McIlhagga <[hidden email]> Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:56 am Subject: Re: [Marketing] Re: Marketing Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4 To: Peter Batty <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email] > Hi Peter, > > You're right - it is a tricky line. I suppose a better example > would > be MapGuide Enterprise which is a proprietary product, but > developed > with significant support from Autodesk. Is running an OSGeo > adword > targeting searches of AutoCAD Map or MapGuide Enterprise and > promoting > QGIS and MapServer (or even MapGuide Open Source) appropriate? > > All I'm saying is that it is a very fine line -- especially if > you > *do* want to attract corporate sponsors of the foundation who > may have > proprietary geospatial products built with open source > components. > ESRI, Google, Intergraph and Safe Software are all > proprietary > software providers who have open source components within > their > offerings. If we're truly open -- we should be striving to find > better > ways to work with these organizations just as we do with > everyone else. > > Dave > > > > > On 2009-10-20, at 2:24 PM, Peter Batty wrote: > > > Dave, > > > > The mission of OSGeo is "To support the development of open > source > > geospatial software, and promote its widespread use" > (http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/about.html > > ). By definition if someone is using an OSGeo product for > something, > > that is a lost opportunity for a closed source software > company to > > make some money. > > > > While ESRI and other closed source vendors may make use of > some open > > source code within their offerings, and as part of this they > may > > contribute, that is a very lightweight "partnership". ESRI is > not a > > sponsor of OSGeo. I have never heard of a situation where ESRI > has > > suggested the use of MapServer instead of ArcGIS Server > (for > > instance), nor would I expect them to ever do that. It is in > that > > context that I refer to ESRI as a "competitor" of OSGeo (they > and > > others may be both competitors and contributors depending on > the > > context). > > > > Nowhere did I suggest that you should only use open > source > > geospatial software (I happen to not believe that), and my > suggested > > wording was "reasons why you should consider an open source > web > > mapping platform", which is all pretty low key and reasonable > I > > thought. > > > > In short, if we can't say to someone who is interested in > finding > > out more about ESRI, "here's an open source alternative you > might > > want to consider", I'm not really sure how we can can carry > out > > OSGeo's mission to promote widespread use of open source, or > why we > > have this mailing list? > > > > Cheers, > > Peter. > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Dave McIlhagga > <[hidden email] > > > wrote: > > The only issue with competing for Google search terms that > include > > commercial product brands is that many of these companies are > active > > adopters and contributors to OSGeo projects. Note that ESRI is > among > > this group. Competing with your partners for eyeballs is a > line you > > need to walk carefully. > > > > Also - I'm not sure that promoting the "us vs. them" of "open > vs. > > proprietary" is a very healthy approach for the organization. > > > > Dave > > > > > > Dave McIlhagga > > www.mapsherpa.com > > www.dmsolutions.ca > > > > On 2009-10-20, at 11:41 AM, Peter Batty wrote: > > > >> A couple of thoughts ... I think that if people are > specifically > >> looking for open source geospatial solutions, conference, etc > they > >> probably find OSGeo and FOSS4G pretty readily (and if not a > bit of > >> simple SEO tweaking should do the trick). > >> > >> For example, if you google for Open Source Geospatial > then > >> osgeo.org is the top hit. If you google for Open Source GIS > then we > >> move down to fifth, but still on the front page (we might > want to > >> mention the phrase open source GIS more or add it to the > keywords > >> in the page metadata if it's not there, if we think that's a > phrase > >> we want to be top for). > >> > >> If we are going to pay for adwords then I would vote they > should be > >> something that would not otherwise show up OSGeo sites - > for > >> example generic terms like "web mapping" or "spatial > database", or > >> names of commercial competitors like "ESRI". > >> > >> If I had a small budget to experiment with this, I would > probably > >> add a page to the OSGeo site focused on users of existing > closed > >> source GIS (or possibly ESRI specifically) - something > pretty > >> concise and punchy, like "top 5 reasons why you should > consider an > >> open source web mapping platform" (and perhaps "in > conjunction with > >> your existing GIS"?), and then pay to have the keyword ESRI > return > >> that page in the list. And we need to make sure we have > the > >> appropriate stats tracking to see how well it's working. > >> Analytics integrates with their advertising stuff so that > is > >> probably the obvious choice. > >> > >> I'd be happy to volunteer a bit of time to help with this. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Peter. > >> > >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:51 AM, daniele.ocu ocu > <[hidden email] > >> > wrote: > >> I worked with Google Adwords for a couple of years a while > back, a > >> lot has changed since then. > >> > >> A nice tool for getting new Keywords (apart from of corse > Googles > >> own tool) is: > >> > >> http://freekeywords.wordtracker.com/ > >> > >> Another great sour of information on PayPerClick advertising > is the > >> Marketing Experiments Website. Really interesting to have a > look at > >> the Webclinics > >> > >> > http://www.marketingexperiments.com/index.php?searchword=adwords&option=search&x=0&y=0>> > >> Daniele > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:00 AM, <marketing- > >> [hidden email]> wrote: > >> Send Marketing mailing list submissions to > >> [hidden email] > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing>> or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> marketing- > [hidden email]>> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> marketing- > [hidden email]>> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of Marketing digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Re: AdWords? (Lorenzo Becchi) > >> 2. Re: AdWords? (Alex Mandel) > >> 3. Re: AdWords? (Tyler Mitchell) > >> 4. Re: AdWords? (Lorenzo Becchi) > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:26:26 +1100 > >> From: Lorenzo Becchi <[hidden email]> > >> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords? > >> To: "Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)" <[hidden email]> > >> Cc: [hidden email] > >> Message-ID: > >> > <[hidden email]>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> I have an idea: > >> why not using it for FOSS4G 2010? > >> :) > >> > >> suggestions for the keywords? > >> > >> lorenzo > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) < > >> [hidden email]> wrote: > >> > >> > Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've > received a $100 > >> voucher > >> > for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on > testing > >> it and > >> > tracking its usage. > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Marketing mailing list > >> > [hidden email] > >> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing > >> > > >> > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: > http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/marketing/attachments/20091019/eaf8111a/attachment-0001.html > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:43:51 -0700 > >> From: Alex Mandel <[hidden email]> > >> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords? > >> To: [hidden email] > >> Message-ID: <[hidden email]> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> > >> Frank and someone else, can't remember right now also offered > to > >> donate > >> some adwords credits they had too. Should we do a donate your > adwords>> campaign to build up a budget? > >> > >> Alex > >> > >> Lorenzo Becchi wrote: > >> > I have an idea: > >> > why not using it for FOSS4G 2010? > >> > :) > >> > > >> > suggestions for the keywords? > >> > > >> > lorenzo > >> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) < > >> > [hidden email]> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've > received a $100 > >> voucher > >> >> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance > on > >> testing it and > >> >> tracking its usage. > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:52:22 +1100 > >> From: Tyler Mitchell <[hidden email]> > >> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords? > >> To: [hidden email] > >> Cc: [hidden email] > >> Message-ID: <[hidden email]> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> Very nice ideas Alex and Lorenzo. Let's brainstorm some > terms too > >> so we're ready to use them :) I'm not all that familiar > with the > >> methods of using adwords well, but will help wherever I can. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Alex Mandel <[hidden email]> > >> Date: Monday, October 19, 2009 3:43 pm > >> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords? > >> To: [hidden email] > >> > >> > Frank and someone else, can't remember right now also > offered to > >> > donatesome adwords credits they had too. Should we do a donate > >> > your adwords > >> > campaign to build up a budget? > >> > > >> > Alex > >> > > >> > Lorenzo Becchi wrote: > >> > > I have an idea: > >> > > why not using it for FOSS4G 2010? > >> > > :) > >> > > > >> > > suggestions for the keywords? > >> > > > >> > > lorenzo > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) < > >> > > [hidden email]> wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've > >> > received a $100 voucher > >> > >> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on > >> > testing it and > >> > >> tracking its usage. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Marketing mailing list > >> > [hidden email] > >> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing > >> > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: > http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/marketing/attachments/20091019/36527c50/attachment-0001.html > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 4 > >> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:17:59 +1100 > >> From: Lorenzo Becchi <[hidden email]> > >> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords? > >> To: [hidden email] > >> Cc: [hidden email], [hidden email] > >> Message-ID: > >> > <[hidden email]>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> I've been using it for a while, few year ago, while still a > web > >> developer. > >> It was very easy at the time and I suppose it's easier now. > >> You create a project (don't know the exact term) and > choose > >> keywords for it. > >> Then google specify the price per click for every keyword. > You are > >> able to > >> decide which keyword activate and you always have the control > over > >> the money > >> you've spent already and it's plenty of stats. > >> > >> lorenzo > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Tyler Mitchell > <[hidden email] > >> >wrote: > >> > >> > Very nice ideas Alex and Lorenzo. Let's brainstorm > some terms > >> too so we're > >> > ready to use them :) I'm not all that familiar with > the methods > >> of using > >> > adwords well, but will help wherever I can. > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Alex Mandel <[hidden email]> > >> > Date: Monday, October 19, 2009 3:43 pm > >> > Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords? > >> > To: [hidden email] > >> > > >> > > Frank and someone else, can't remember right now also > offered to > >> > > donatesome adwords credits they had too. Should we do a donate > >> > > your adwords > >> > > campaign to build up a budget? > >> > > > >> > > Alex > >> > > > >> > > Lorenzo Becchi wrote: > >> > > > I have an idea: > >> > > > why not using it for FOSS4G 2010? > >> > > > :) > >> > > > > >> > > > suggestions for the keywords? > >> > > > > >> > > > lorenzo > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell > (OSGeo) < > >> > > > [hidden email]> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > >> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've > >> > > received a $100 voucher > >> > > >> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on > >> > > testing it and > >> > > >> tracking its usage. > >> > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Marketing mailing list > >> > > [hidden email] > >> > > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing > >> > > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Marketing mailing list > >> > [hidden email] > >> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing > >> > > >> > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: > http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/marketing/attachments/20091019/2b34e8d2/attachment-0001.html > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Marketing mailing list > >> [hidden email] > >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing > >> > >> > >> End of Marketing Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4 > >> **************************************** > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Marketing mailing list > >> [hidden email] > >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking > >> W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954 > >> Blog: http://geothought.blogspot.com > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Marketing mailing list > >> [hidden email] > >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking > > W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954 > > Blog: http://geothought.blogspot.com > > Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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Bob Basques
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In reply to this post
by Dave McIlhagga
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All, Well if they would just admit that all these OpenSource offerings are better, we can get on with working alongside each other. :c) Everyone else thinks so already, or they wouldn't want to work with us, right? bobb
If we're truly open -- we should be striving to find better ways to work with these organizations just as we do with everyone else.
Dave
_______________________________________________ Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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Peter Batty
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In reply to this post
by Dave McIlhagga
Hi Dave,
I agree with you that we do have to walk a fine line in some cases. And I am certainly an advocate that we should be trying to get more commercial companies engaged with OSGeo and open source solutions. As you know, my background is that I've worked for a couple of the largest commercial (and closed source) geospatial vendors. So to take your latest example with Autodesk, I would agree that we shouldn't have marketing material that suggests (explicitly or implicitly), "don't buy MapGuide Enterprise, use the free MapGuide Open Source instead!!". But at the same time, AutoDesk is not trying to hide the fact that there is an open source version of MapGuide, so general marketing to persuade the world that MapGuide in general is a good thing helps OSGeo and helps Autodesk. Commercial companies like Autodesk will typically be looking to make money in one of two ways - providing support or consulting services around the free open source software, and / or selling additional closed source products on top of the open source base. There are plenty of customers out there who see value in paying for both of these things. And in either case, convincing the world that the base open source product is a good thing helps the commercial company make the case for their solution.
As we are exploring these sort of marketing ideas, it might be a good idea to talk to Autodesk and other OSGeo sponsors and get their thoughts - we certainly don't want to alienate them, and we may be able to help each other.
Cheers, Peter. On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Dave McIlhagga <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954 Blog: http://geothought.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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Dave McIlhagga
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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
Hi Peter,I think we're on the same page here -- but with so much choice in terms of keywords to focus on - why not use more generic terms like "web mapping software" or "download desktop GIS". You can also work a more interoperable angle through something like "web mapping Oracle" or "Web Mapping SDE" -- pointing to appropriate open source offerings. To me this just allows the organization to hold it's head a bit higher while gaining traction and avoiding getting into the competition trench wars that you typically find in the proprietary space. In any case - I should mention that I think this can be a very powerful tool when used effectively. Search Engine Marketing does work -- and is something that doesn't require a marketing/communications team to execute. I'm pretty immersed in site analytics and keyword research -- so if any brain picking is required, I would be happy to lend some advice. Dave On 2009-10-20, at 6:39 PM, Peter Batty wrote: Hi Dave, _______________________________________________ Marketing mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing |
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