Politics and Religion (do they mix?)

[Jereth]

Here's an interesting article from The Age last week, which discusses the way that Protestant Christianity in Melbourne is having an influence on State politics:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/leaders-conscience-is-not-mps-guide-20081011-4ysr.html?page=-1

THE Liberal and National parties installed a deeply conservative group of MPs into State Parliament at the 2006 election who have overwhelmingly voted "no" on conscience votes for socially progressive laws.
...
Many, including Heidi Victoria, Nick Wakeling, Christine Fyffe, David Hodgett, Ryan Smith and Jan Kronberg, represent suburbs in Melbourne's outer-east "bible belt," where an increasingly muscular Protestantism is growing in influence.

The Protestants have, for the first time, joined the Catholic lobby for a concerted effort against abortion and on other social issues.

Mr Smith, the member for Warrandyte, described himself as "pro-choice," but said he was against the abortion bill partly because of "the vast majority of individuals in my electorate who contacted my office asking me to reject the bill".

A number of other MPs have referred in their speeches to lobbying from Christian pastors or the Australian Christian Lobby, which has adopted a strongly anti-abortion viewpoint.

Others, such as upper house member Bernie Finn and the member for Narracan, Gary Blackwood, are long-time members of the Catholic church.

One source said that "the people we are putting in Parliament are simply more conservative, which probably reflects the views of people in the outer suburban electorates and the way the party has gone".
...
However, The Sunday Age has spoken to a number of religious figures who believe their parishioners should take their views into the mainstream parties, if they are interested in doing so.

"I would say there is a growing awareness that the church had disengaged from the political process to the detriment of society and there is a move to re-engage appropriately, inside and outside the political parties," said Pastor Rob Ward, Victorian director of the Australian Christian Lobby.

On a more disturbing note, a Bill has passed the lower house which allows children to be manufactured for "families" without a mother and a father -- including gay and lesbian couples. Even Ted Baillieu, who usually has very liberal social views, has argued against this bill, asserting that children have the right to a mother and a father.

http://www.acl.org.au/vic/browse.stw?article_id=24611
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24480434-5006016,00.html

I'm sickened at the thought that, if this bill successfully makes it through the upper house, we're going to start seeing generations of very, very screwed up kids. Can you imagine poor little Jimmy who has to tell his friends that he has two mummies? Shudder. Let's hope and pray that those Christian politicians manage to block it.

Jereth

[Phil Weickhardt (Phool)]

Do politics and religion mix?

There are some that trace the corruption of christianity to 300 AD and Emperor Constantine. Prior to this christianity had, in many places, been an organic group of like-minded individuals. These people would say that politics will always corrupt christianity. Through my study of church history (very limited) I have learned that groups of christians have tried to get back to the organic group style at different times.

Can christians have a positive impact on the political sphere? YES: Wilberforce, John Newton, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Fred Nile

Is Australia a "christian country"? No, but 64% of Australians identify themselves as christians (2006 census). "Religious freedom is safeguarded by section 116 of the Australian Constitution, which prohibits the federal government from making any law establishing any religion, imposing any religious observance, or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion. Individuals are free to express a diversity of views, as long as they do not incite religious hatred." http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/religious_freedom.pdf

Hmmm ... according to the constitution the vilification of christians is already illegal!

On your last point about screwed up kids... it already happens. A marriage breaks up and a single mother finds a lesbian partner etc.

We have screwed up kids for many, many reasons.

Are we called to condemn?
Are we called to be salt and light?
Are we called to preach and make disciples?
Are we called to pray for those in authority?

[Andrew Stagg]

where an increasingly muscular Protestantism is growing in influence.

 - ya gotta love this latest round of rubbish from the age. If anyone other interest group stacks a party (state labor is regularly riddled with these controversies) the Age and the ABC usually manage to spin it as a positive for democracy. Yet in reverse it gets spun as subversion of the democratic process. Although it might be nice, there's no evidence that the liberal party has been taken over by - shock horror - the Christians!!!

The REAL story here is why so many in labor were subverted to vote for this legislation. After all when you look at the nice pretty graphic the Age has provided helpfully labled "Right Turn Only - Victoria's Dry Liberals" then the elephant in the room is that all five of the bills are blatant rubbish - who given a choice wouldn't vote against all of them.

Bah Humbug to this story!!!

[Jereth]

Andrew,

I would probably take a slightly less cynical view of this article. I read it as saying that Christianity is literally growing in the outer burbs, and that our political representation is reflecting this. In addition, Christians are taking their faith seriously enough to enter the public sphere. This is encouraging.

As I have said in a post on the abortion thread, the secular revisionist-libertarian impulse in society inevitably produces an equal and opposite conservative reaction. When people can't stomach the extreme amoral direction that paganism is pushing in, many start searching again for the stability and certainty provided by traditional faith values -- and some hopefully find Jesus in the process.

I attended an event yesterday where someone involved in AFES student ministry at Melbourne uni reported that the last few years have seen large numbers of students abandoning post-modern relativism and instead searching for absolute truth. This has been a challenge for a ministry team that has spent a lot of effort equipping itself with tools to engage post-modern culture -- they're now finding themselves having to revert back to modernist evangelism and apologetics! I reckon this supports my above point -- eventually the pendulum starts to come back.

Jereth

[Jereth]

Phil Weickhardt (Phool) wrote:

On your last point about screwed up kids... it already happens. A marriage breaks up and a single mother finds a lesbian partner etc.

We have screwed up kids for many, many reasons.

Sorry for the delayed reply, Phil-Phool.

You're right - there are many, many screwed up kids in Australia/Victoria/Melbourne etc. and for many many reasons.

There is a fundamental difference however between kids who, through tragic circumstances, end up in single parent families, separated families, wards of the state, fostered, orphaned and so on; and kids who are manufactured for lesbian or gay couples. [note: credit for this explanation goes to someone else who I know] In the former case, the kids still have the ideal of having a natural mother and father, even if dad has run off or mum has died or whatever. They can still hold this ideal psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, even in a deprived and broken situation which they are able to identify as abnormal.

In the latter case, the kids are told that they have two mummies or two daddies and that this is normal so that even the ideal of having a natural mother and father is shattered and replaced with something perverse. What's more, this sort of situation is created deliberately (rather than through tragedy or brokenness) and -- if the legislation passes -- will be state sponsored.

As Bible believing Christians, who care about the mental health and wellbeing of our society's children, we should strongly oppose this.

Jereth

[Jereth]

An interesting an enlightening article by Rev. David Palmer, which I commend:

http://www.acl.org.au/pdfs/load_pdf_public.pdf?pdf_id=1203&from=NATIONAL