[Plone-NGOs] CalendarX and Plone Collective

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George L

[Plone-NGOs] CalendarX and Plone Collective

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Hi,

I recently asked Lupa, the maintainer of CalendarX, if it would be okay to move
CalendarX to the Plone Collective and he agreed. It seems that CalendarX is used
by a good number of folks and could use some love in modernizing its codebase.

At the same time I'm impressed by the code in Plone4ArtistsCalendar.

I have a few questions:

(1) The people working on other calendar projects -- what is your opinion about
work on CalendarX? Does it fill a role that others don't, do you really see it
just duplicating functionality, what would be most productive for CalendarX to
incorporate from other products, what would be most productive for it to focus
on, etc.? My hope actually is that there is some stronger generic
calendar-constructing code in its own lib or python product that a modernized
CalendarX will use but other products can use too; I know some exists in
calendaring, etc.

(2) Is there interest on working together on CalendarX or other calendar
functionality?

(3) What do I need to do to move CalendarX over to the Collective?
    - Are there legal issues? CalendarX is GPL but does something need to be
indicated about who owns other rights to it? (I don't understand the
relationship between GPL, copyrights, etc.)
    - Right now it has a CVS repository; how does this get changed to the SVN
set up?
    - The current code structure uses different version numbers to indicate a
few different major branches, which is not the standard use from what I
understand. Is it best to maintain that?

Peace,
George


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Alexander Limi

Re: [Plone-NGOs] CalendarX and Plone Collective

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On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:42:34 -0800, George Lee  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> (1) The people working on other calendar projects -- what is your  
> opinion about
> work on CalendarX? Does it fill a role that others don't, do you really  
> see it
> just duplicating functionality, what would be most productive for  
> CalendarX to
> incorporate from other products, what would be most productive for it to  
> focus
> on, etc.? My hope actually is that there is some stronger generic
> calendar-constructing code in its own lib or python product that a  
> modernized
> CalendarX will use but other products can use too; I know some exists in
> calendaring, etc.

I am not working on any of the calendar-based projects, to take my opinion  
with a grain of salt:

- It seems like the major value of CalendarX is that it has explored a lot  
of the common use cases and templates needed

- It seems like P4A calendar has a better infrastructure

These things are just from reading the various lists, though — so it's  
definitely an uninformed opinion.

> (2) Is there interest on working together on CalendarX or other calendar
> functionality?

If we could make one calendar project instead of two (and if not, I would  
love to know the reason why), that would be the best.

> (3) What do I need to do to move CalendarX over to the Collective?

http://plone.org/documentation/tutorial/importing-product-into-collective

>     - Are there legal issues? CalendarX is GPL but does something need  
> to be
> indicated about who owns other rights to it? (I don't understand the
> relationship between GPL, copyrights, etc.)

Copyright and licensing are two related (but different) matters. The  
author usually retains copyright of the material he has produced, but the  
license says that it can be reused in other projects as long as they  
follow the conditions set out in the license. In general, this isn't a  
problem unless you believe in software patents.

>     - Right now it has a CVS repository; how does this get changed to  
> the SVN
> set up?

We can import the history if required (this is more work), or if you don't  
need the project history, it's easy to import (for example) the 2-3 main  
branches using SVN import. In general, the history of the app is available  
on SF.net, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. For a project like  
Plone itself (which has a lot more structure, contributor agreements,  
copyright assignment to the Foundation etc), it makes a lot of sense to  
centralize the history, but add-on products seem to get by without history  
in the same repository since they usually have fewer developers and always  
move forward.

>     - The current code structure uses different version numbers to  
> indicate a
> few different major branches, which is not the standard use from what I
> understand. Is it best to maintain that?

Standardizing the branches in the same way as most projects in the  
Collective use is recommended to minimize confusion — but you're  
essentially free to do whatever you want. It's easier for people to help  
out if the structure is predictable, though. :)

--
Alexander Limi · http://limi.net


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Alexander Limi · http://limi.net

Martin Aspeli-2

Re: [Plone-NGOs] CalendarX and Plone Collective

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Alexander Limi wrote:

> I am not working on any of the calendar-based projects, to take my opinion  
> with a grain of salt:

Ditto for me.

> - It seems like the major value of CalendarX is that it has explored a lot  
> of the common use cases and templates needed
>
> - It seems like P4A calendar has a better infrastructure
>
> These things are just from reading the various lists, though — so it's  
> definitely an uninformed opinion.

My opinion was informed a while ago but isn't quite up to date: I once
needed a calendaring solution. CalendarX did not feel very solid to me
at that time from the point of view of extending it and building on it.
I haven't used P4A calendar. I did look at CalCore, CalZope and CalCMF,
a stack by the Nuxeo guys which is fairly modern and quite powerful. I
think this probably holds (held?) the most promise (from what I've seen,
and I haven't seen P4A cal in any detail) but it needed a fair degree of
UI love at the time.

I agree with Limi, though - we only need one calendaring solution,
because calendaring is surprisingly complex and we need to get it right
once, not duplicate effort. Things like repeated events, overlapping
events, shared events, all-day events, task integration, export/import
to Outlook (hard, but important to many people) and iCal (easier) or
Mozilla's calendar (which sucked last time I used it) are not trivial.

Martin


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Jon Stahl

RE: [Plone-NGOs] CalendarX and Plone Collective

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> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Martin Aspeli
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 2:20 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Plone-NGOs] CalendarX and Plone Collective
>
> Alexander Limi wrote:
>
> > I am not working on any of the calendar-based projects, to take my
> > opinion with a grain of salt:
>
> Ditto for me.
>
> > - It seems like the major value of CalendarX is that it has
> explored a
> > lot of the common use cases and templates needed
> >
> > - It seems like P4A calendar has a better infrastructure
> >
> > These things are just from reading the various lists,
> though - so it's
> > definitely an uninformed opinion.
>
> My opinion was informed a while ago but isn't quite up to
> date: I once needed a calendaring solution. CalendarX did not
> feel very solid to me at that time from the point of view of
> extending it and building on it.
> I haven't used P4A calendar. I did look at CalCore, CalZope
> and CalCMF, a stack by the Nuxeo guys which is fairly modern
> and quite powerful. I think this probably holds (held?) the
> most promise (from what I've seen, and I haven't seen P4A cal
> in any detail) but it needed a fair degree of UI love at the time.

Does the fact that Nuxeo has abandoned Zope for Java seem significant to
you in evaluating the suitability of building on their stack?


> I agree with Limi, though - we only need one calendaring
> solution, because calendaring is surprisingly complex and we
> need to get it right once, not duplicate effort. Things like
> repeated events, overlapping events, shared events, all-day
> events, task integration, export/import to Outlook (hard, but
> important to many people) and iCal (easier) or Mozilla's
> calendar (which sucked last time I used it) are not trivial.

+1

best,
jon
-----------------------------
Jon Stahl, Program Manager
ONE/Northwest - Online Networking for the Environment
[hidden email]  http://www.onenw.org
206.286.1235x15  skype: jonstahl  y!: jondstahl
 
Want a piece of my mind? Check out my blog at:
http://blogs.onenw.org/jon

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Martin Aspeli-2

Re: [Plone-NGOs] CalendarX and Plone Collective

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Jon Stahl wrote:

> Does the fact that Nuxeo has abandoned Zope for Java seem significant to
> you in evaluating the suitability of building on their stack?

Depends. It's open source. It if has maintainers it doesn't matter what
their corporate direction is. It will depend as much on the people who
wrote these particular tools, those using them, and what their plans
are. Maintainability is definitely a factor, here as well as in any
other project.

Martin


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lists-37

Re: [Plone-NGOs] CalendarX and Plone Collective

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In reply to this post by Martin Aspeli-2
On Fri, January 26, 2007 1:19 pm, Martin Aspeli wrote:
> Alexander Limi wrote:
>
> I agree with Limi, though - we only need one calendaring solution,
> because calendaring is surprisingly complex and we need to get it right
> once, not duplicate effort. Things like repeated events, overlapping
> events, shared events, all-day events, task integration, export/import
> to Outlook (hard, but important to many people) and iCal (easier) or
> Mozilla's calendar (which sucked last time I used it) are not trivial.
>


another calendaring application that is worth looking into is:

SchoolTool Calendar and SchoolBell are calendar and resource management
tools for schools. SchoolTool is  based on Zope 3.

http://www.schooltool.org/

HTH

christian





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Reinout van Rees

Re: [Plone-NGOs] CalendarX and Plone Collective

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[hidden email] wrote:

> On Fri, January 26, 2007 1:19 pm, Martin Aspeli wrote:
>> Alexander Limi wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Limi, though - we only need one calendaring solution,
>> because calendaring is surprisingly complex and we need to get it right
>> once, not duplicate effort. Things like repeated events, overlapping
>> events, shared events, all-day events, task integration, export/import
>> to Outlook (hard, but important to many people) and iCal (easier) or
>> Mozilla's calendar (which sucked last time I used it) are not trivial.
>>
>
>
> another calendaring application that is worth looking into is:

There was a post to the plone developers list this morning that they're
working on The One Calender Solution for plone on the snowsprint. Reuse
of existing libraries, involvement of some of the original authors of
those libraries or existing solutions, etc.

Reinout

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http://vanrees.org/weblog/                  http://zestsoftware.nl/
"Military engineers build missiles. Civil engineers build targets."


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