PSPS08-7832: The future of Archetypes

[Spanky-2]

http://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/7832

Greetings!

It is my goal to put together an exploratory group to develop a sensible
roadmap for the future of Archetypes re: Plone and Z3.  I would like to
gather together the interested parties and stakeholders.  This is not
necessarily meant to be the group who will implement, but rather a group
to weigh in from all sides and try to reach consensus.  The consensus of
this group will in no way be binding or represent a 'final' decision.
This is a deep, complicated, and entrenched technology that touches many
aspects of Plone development: from the core to 3rd party apps.

I will do my best to play two roles here, one of topic champion and one
of interested party.  I have my thoughts and ideas on the matter that I
will express, but should in no way be considered 'in charge' of any
decisions.  Rather, I am the champion for the topic and will try to
drive the discussion and compile information from *you*!

I welcome ANYONE interested in a sincere, detailed, open and frank
discussion about this topic to join in.  I am not going to create a
separate email list or anything like that, because I don't want there to
ever be the perception of an 'Ivory Tower', making decisions in some
smoke-filled, well, ivory tower.  Using this list for discussion seems
just fine to me.  I am also thinking that it might be useful at some
point in the future to have some kind of conference call or similar to
facilitate communication.  Much more can get done in terms of consensus
building in a one hour discussion than in 100 emails.

First, I think it is important to identify and gather the WHO.  While
everyone is welcome to participate, I think there are definitely a group
of folks who *need* to be involved.  So, our first task in to ask for
initial reactions and suggestions for 'required participants', willing
or otherwise ;)

One procedural note: I really dislike LONG threads with content that no
longer matches the topic, as well as digging around mailing lists for
relevant topics, so I ask two things of participants:

1. If your post does not match the current topic subject (new thought,
branch, etc.), simply start a new post.

2. When starting a new post, prefix it with 'PSPS08-7832: ' as if it
were a separate mailing list. (That's: Plone Strategic Planning Summit
08 re: ticket 7832) - I hope this'll help interested folks to make
mailbox/newsreader rules, etc. (I use Gmane to read this list)

Look for an immediate followup to this introductory email with an
overall plan.

--

~Spanky





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[Spanky-2]

Here is a rough plan for going forward.  Feedback on this, and anything
else, is always appreciated.

1. Gather the group:
Who *needs* to be involved in the discussion.  Everyone is welcome, but
whose expertise would be noticeably missing?

2. Gather opinions:
People are going to have widely varying opinions about not only the
problems but also the solutions.  I suggest folks write up their
opinions of both and post them.

3. Discuss:
Once we have opinions, I imagine a heated, disastrous flamewar to erupt
;) no seriously, let's each take the time to explore what other people's
experiences, use cases, and solutions are in an open-minded fashion.

4. Consensus building:
Working toward consensus can be difficult.  Let's do our best to resolve
potential disagreements in the identification of the problem, and the
potential solutions.

5. Roadmap:
If/when we achieve consensus, it makes sense to distill that into a
roadmap that can become actionable.  Once we have a roadmap, we can then
start working toward implementing solutions.

I imagine that this entire process may take upwards of a few months to
complete.  Maybe 3 months?  I think that we should have some kind of
target date to shoot for, when we have a roadmap.  Thoughts?

--

~Spanky



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[Raphael Ritz]

Spanky wrote:
> http://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/7832
>
> Greetings!
>

Hi Spanky,

[..]
> I welcome ANYONE interested in a sincere, detailed, open and frank
> discussion about this topic to join in.  I am not going to create a
> separate email list or anything like that,

OK, but what about some web-space somewhere nevertheless (on plone.org
or openplans or wherever) where we can wright down things in a somewhat
more structured and editable way? Like the summary of things that AT
does provide and potential alternatives for those. Or do you think we
can handle this exclusively via email?

And, btw, count me in ;-)

Raphael

> because I don't want there to
> ever be the perception of an 'Ivory Tower', making decisions in some
> smoke-filled, well, ivory tower.  Using this list for discussion seems
> just fine to me.  I am also thinking that it might be useful at some
> point in the future to have some kind of conference call or similar to
> facilitate communication.  Much more can get done in terms of consensus
> building in a one hour discussion than in 100 emails.
>
> First, I think it is important to identify and gather the WHO.  While
> everyone is welcome to participate, I think there are definitely a group
> of folks who *need* to be involved.  So, our first task in to ask for
> initial reactions and suggestions for 'required participants', willing
> or otherwise ;)
>
> One procedural note: I really dislike LONG threads with content that no
> longer matches the topic, as well as digging around mailing lists for
> relevant topics, so I ask two things of participants:
>
> 1. If your post does not match the current topic subject (new thought,
> branch, etc.), simply start a new post.
>
> 2. When starting a new post, prefix it with 'PSPS08-7832: ' as if it
> were a separate mailing list. (That's: Plone Strategic Planning Summit
> 08 re: ticket 7832) - I hope this'll help interested folks to make
> mailbox/newsreader rules, etc. (I use Gmane to read this list)
>
> Look for an immediate followup to this introductory email with an
> overall plan.
>
> --
>
> ~Spanky
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/

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[Martin Aspeli-2]

Raphael Ritz wrote:

> Spanky wrote:
>> http://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/7832
>>
>> Greetings!
>>
>
> Hi Spanky,
>
> [..]
>> I welcome ANYONE interested in a sincere, detailed, open and frank
>> discussion about this topic to join in.  I am not going to create a
>> separate email list or anything like that,
>
> OK, but what about some web-space somewhere nevertheless (on plone.org
> or openplans or wherever) where we can wright down things in a somewhat
> more structured and editable way? Like the summary of things that AT
> does provide and potential alternatives for those. Or do you think we
> can handle this exclusively via email?
>
> And, btw, count me in ;-)

The intention was for the Track tickets
(http://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/7832) to be the main place for this,
but we can of course have a more structured place, like a Wiki (either
on Trac or on openplans) or an area of plone.org.

Martin

--
Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who
want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book


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[Spanky-2]

Martin Aspeli wrote:

> Raphael Ritz wrote:
>> Spanky wrote:
>>> http://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/7832
>>>
>>> Greetings!
>>>
>> Hi Spanky,
>>
>> [..]
>>> I welcome ANYONE interested in a sincere, detailed, open and frank
>>> discussion about this topic to join in.  I am not going to create a
>>> separate email list or anything like that,
>> OK, but what about some web-space somewhere nevertheless (on plone.org
>> or openplans or wherever) where we can wright down things in a somewhat
>> more structured and editable way? Like the summary of things that AT
>> does provide and potential alternatives for those. Or do you think we
>> can handle this exclusively via email?

A wiki or somesuch would be fine, although let's use that for actual
planning rather than discussion.  I'll set one up when I feel that we
have something to document.


>> And, btw, count me in ;-)

Great!  Any suggestions of who else should be involved?

> The intention was for the Track tickets
> (http://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/7832) to be the main place for this,
> but we can of course have a more structured place, like a Wiki (either
> on Trac or on openplans) or an area of plone.org.
>
> Martin
>


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[Spanky-2]

Spanky wrote:
> First, I think it is important to identify and gather the WHO.  While
> everyone is welcome to participate, I think there are definitely a group
> of folks who *need* to be involved.  So, our first task in to ask for
> initial reactions and suggestions for 'required participants', willing
> or otherwise ;)

Ideas on people who need to be involved in this topic?  I can then ping
them and ask them to participate.

--

~Spanky


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