Organizing projects and contexts in Chandler

[Alexandre Leroux-2]

Hi all,

I'm brand new to the list and to Chandler. For the past month, I've  
been evaluating GTD apps. I'm in the process of writing a "review" for  
five of them. I'm still trying to find out which GTD app is best for  
me and which one I'll invest time in. In that process, I seriously  
evaluated Chandler. I'm an open source user and contributor (though  
I'm not really a developer), I'm biased in favor of open source  
apps :-) I also really like the fact that Chandler has a web-based  
client. This is almost a requirement to me because of my work context  
and thus I really hope the inconveniences I discovered in Chandler can  
be circumvented.

Now, as much as I'd like to actually choose Chandler as my GTD app of  
choice, I have a question for you. Specifically in regards to  
organizing projects and contexts. In Chandler, is there a way to  
efficiently organize projects, their associated tasks, and contexts?  
Are there only 'Collections'? No hierarchies? No filters in the task  
list?

Thanks a lot!

Here below I copied the part of my review that discusses Chandler  
(mostly written for myself, but I will at least publish it to my  
personal blog, and maybe on my professional blog (which gets about  
30,000 daily hits)). For your curiosity, I also tested OmniFocus,  
Things, Life Balance and ThinkingRock (also open source, but despite  
being more "mature" than Chandler, the interface annoys me, syncing is  
pay-for and there are no web or iPhone clients).


Thanks for any replies! I sincerely wish you'll share with me  
workarounds and tips that will make me choose Chandler! :-)

Have a great day!

Alex :-)

= = = = =

Chandler

I evaluated version 1.0.3 of <a href="http://
chandlerproject.org/">Chandler</a>, an open source GTD app. It's a  
first version and it shows.

Good:
* Open source, meaning free as in freedom. I can install it on as many  
computers as I want without having to wonder about licensing.
* Multiplatform. I will be able to used it at work (Debian Linux) as  
well as at home (MacOS X). This is a major plus to me and a real  
advantage over the other reviewed GTD apps.
* Web based too, meaning I can access it from work even if I don't/
can't install the Desktop app.
* Can send emails directly from the Chandler interface.

Neutral:
* Chandler web can be accessed from an iPhone provided you're  
connected to the Internet. There's also a free iPhone app, but it  
seems it only allows task entry, no task browsing.

Bad:
* No projects grouping or hierarchy, no contexts, only "Collections".  
This makes the browsing of tasks pretty difficult with only basic  
sorting capabilities, no filters. This can be a showstopper to many  
potential users, including me.
* Average user interface. No auto-completion, must drag and drop tasks  
to associate them with collections. No great MacOSX integration, such  
as with Mail and AddressBook.
* Limited set of features in regards to tasks: no way to set a start  
or due date, only a single date for the calendar display and alerts.
* No specific reviewing capabilities.

The great thing about Chandler being open source, you can easily try  
it for a long period of time to find out if it suit your needs or not.  
If you have some coding skills, you can even help by adding the  
features that you really need. However, at the moment, Chandler  
definitely looks like the least mature of these five GTD apps.
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[Fritz Meissner]

Hi Alexandre,
Sub-projects is one of the most-requested features, but you are correct that Chandler does not (yet) have this feature. I do find that the search function (ctrl-f is the shortcut) helps with filtering and finding, together with being able to sort in the task list on any column.

Graham Perrin has done quite a lot of work on interoperability with other systems, so he might chip in here also. His notes at http://chandlerproject.org/Journal/GrahamPerrinNotes might also give you some insights about Chandler in the real world.

In my experience, it is important for people to realise that Chandler is not a replacement for an e-mail client - the biggest disappointments seem to happen when people assume from the Outlook model that to-do list and e-mail always go together.

Fritz

2009/7/16 Alexandre Leroux <[hidden email]>

Hi all,

I'm brand new to the list and to Chandler. For the past month, I've
been evaluating GTD apps. I'm in the process of writing a "review" for
five of them. I'm still trying to find out which GTD app is best for
me and which one I'll invest time in. In that process, I seriously
evaluated Chandler. I'm an open source user and contributor (though
I'm not really a developer), I'm biased in favor of open source
apps :-) I also really like the fact that Chandler has a web-based
client. This is almost a requirement to me because of my work context
and thus I really hope the inconveniences I discovered in Chandler can
be circumvented.

Now, as much as I'd like to actually choose Chandler as my GTD app of
choice, I have a question for you. Specifically in regards to
organizing projects and contexts. In Chandler, is there a way to
efficiently organize projects, their associated tasks, and contexts?
Are there only 'Collections'? No hierarchies? No filters in the task
list?

Thanks a lot!

Here below I copied the part of my review that discusses Chandler
(mostly written for myself, but I will at least publish it to my
personal blog, and maybe on my professional blog (which gets about
30,000 daily hits)). For your curiosity, I also tested OmniFocus,
Things, Life Balance and ThinkingRock (also open source, but despite
being more "mature" than Chandler, the interface annoys me, syncing is
pay-for and there are no web or iPhone clients).


Thanks for any replies! I sincerely wish you'll share with me
workarounds and tips that will make me choose Chandler! :-)

Have a great day!

Alex :-)

= = = = =

Chandler

I evaluated version 1.0.3 of <a href="http://
chandlerproject.org/">Chandler</a>, an open source GTD app. It's a
first version and it shows.

Good:
* Open source, meaning free as in freedom. I can install it on as many
computers as I want without having to wonder about licensing.
* Multiplatform. I will be able to used it at work (Debian Linux) as
well as at home (MacOS X). This is a major plus to me and a real
advantage over the other reviewed GTD apps.
* Web based too, meaning I can access it from work even if I don't/
can't install the Desktop app.
* Can send emails directly from the Chandler interface.

Neutral:
* Chandler web can be accessed from an iPhone provided you're
connected to the Internet. There's also a free iPhone app, but it
seems it only allows task entry, no task browsing.

Bad:
* No projects grouping or hierarchy, no contexts, only "Collections".
This makes the browsing of tasks pretty difficult with only basic
sorting capabilities, no filters. This can be a showstopper to many
potential users, including me.
* Average user interface. No auto-completion, must drag and drop tasks
to associate them with collections. No great MacOSX integration, such
as with Mail and AddressBook.
* Limited set of features in regards to tasks: no way to set a start
or due date, only a single date for the calendar display and alerts.
* No specific reviewing capabilities.

The great thing about Chandler being open source, you can easily try
it for a long period of time to find out if it suit your needs or not.
If you have some coding skills, you can even help by adding the
features that you really need. However, at the moment, Chandler
definitely looks like the least mature of these five GTD apps.
_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
unsubscribe here: http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
Chandler wiki: http://chandlerproject.org/wikihome

_______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
unsubscribe here: http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
Chandler wiki: http://chandlerproject.org/wikihome

[Graham Perrin]

Fritz Meissner wrote:

Graham Perrin has done quite a lot of work on interoperability with other systems, so he might chip in here also.

Hello all :)

Recent discussion in the mozilla.support.calendar Usenet group:
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.calendar/browse_frm/thread/b87481fafec7c8b6>

Highlights from one piece of recommended reading from within Chandler Wiki:
<http://www.diigo.com/bookmark/http%3A%2F%2Fchandlerproject.org%2FJournal%2FHowTheCookieCrumblesPartI?tab=comment&uname=grahamperrin>

FWIW I think that a key principle should be to increase usability and functionality
without bolting on (or bolting in) new features or new concepts. Whether/how we go about that is totally open to debate.

My gut feeling at the moment is that a FAYT approach to filtering collections might be the most practical/realistic way of moving things forward. Subject to available resources, developer time etc..

More about FAYT at <http://n2.nabble.com/-tp3007748p3274461.html>. I bundled the FAYT idea with the more exotic bird's eye view idea, but the two could be exclusive.

In my experience, it is important for people to realise that Chandler is not a replacement for an e-mail client - the biggest disappointments seem to happen when people assume from the Outlook model that to-do list and e-mail always go together.

+1

The following diagram is not really ready for publication, but here goes:
<http://www.wuala.com/grahamperrin/Documents/chandler/private/welcome/?key=BYK1wCXm6MDf>

(That's a temporary location for work in progress, don't expect it to be there forever. One thing that's currently wrong with that diagram: iPhone OS 3 and Chandler Hub not communicating as expected.)

Regards
Graham

[Alexandre Leroux-2]

Hi all,

Thanks Fritz and Graham for your replies. Here's a few comments,  
questions and suggestions.

* I just tried the Chandler Hub. Is there a way to display all  
collections at the same time on the Chandler Hub like we can do with  
the Dashboard on the Desktop app? I did not find how.

* You know how I'd implement "projects and contexts" in Chandler in  
one flexible way (more flexible than hierarchies)? It's with tags,  
akin to what Things do. Tags can at the moment be put in Chandler's  
task notes, but there could be a specific field for that. Chandler's  
search already searches notes, so that's great. However, what's  
missing in Chandler right now is "smart folders": automatically  
updated smart folders, displayed alongside collections, that list all  
tasks corresponding to a set of tag criteria. Example: such a 'smart  
folder' could include all tasks that have the "Home" and "@computer"  
tags, or "High priority" and "@work" tags. What do you think? Even if  
the "smart folders" must be manually updated (a new search is done),  
that would still be very useful and allow me (us!) to use contexts  
tags and projects tags or as we see fit. Let me know what you think of  
this! :-)

* I agree, FAYT will be a useful feature.

* I took a look at http://www.wuala.com/grahamperrin/Documents/chandler/private/welcome/?key=BYK1wCXm6MDf 
  , can you tell me why not syncing all tasks and events to an iPhone?  
The graph mentions syncing only events, but I certainly consider  
useful to have my whole list of tasks on my mobile device!

* Since both of you mentioned Outlook, let me reassure you that I'm  
really looking for a GTD app, not an email app, I'm not looking for an  
email replacement (and I don't use Outlook anyway, Thunderbird and  
Apple Mail :-).


That's mostly it for now! Please share what you think of this :-)
Since Chandler is the only GTD app that I reviewed that I could really  
run a work (without relying on my mobile device), I'm seriously  
considering its use.

Thanks -

Alex


Le 09-07-17 à 5:56, Graham Perrin a écrit :

>
>
> Fritz Meissner wrote:
>>
>> Graham Perrin has done quite a lot of work on interoperability with  
>> other
>> systems, so he might chip in here also.
>>
>
> Hello all :)
>
> Recent discussion in the mozilla.support.calendar Usenet group:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.calendar/browse_frm/thread/b87481fafec7c8b6 
> >
>
> Highlights from one piece of recommended reading from within  
> Chandler Wiki:
> <http://www.diigo.com/bookmark/http%3A%2F%2Fchandlerproject.org%2FJournal%2FHowTheCookieCrumblesPartI?tab=comment&uname=grahamperrin 
> >
>
> FWIW I think that a key principle should be to increase usability and
> functionality
> without bolting on (or bolting in) new features or new concepts.  
> Whether/how
> we go about that is totally open to debate.
>
> My gut feeling at the moment is that a FAYT approach to filtering
> collections might be the most practical/realistic way of moving things
> forward. Subject to available resources, developer time etc..
>
> More about FAYT at <http://n2.nabble.com/-tp3007748p3274461.html>. I  
> bundled
> the FAYT idea with the more exotic bird's eye view idea, but the two  
> could
> be exclusive.
>
>
>
>> In my experience, it is important for people to realise that  
>> Chandler is
>> not a replacement for an e-mail client - the biggest  
>> disappointments seem
>> to happen when people assume from the Outlook model that to-do list  
>> and
>> e-mail always go together.
>>
>
> +1
>
> The following diagram is not really ready for publication, but here  
> goes:
> <http://www.wuala.com/grahamperrin/Documents/chandler/private/welcome/?key=BYK1wCXm6MDf 
> >
>
> (That's a temporary location for work in progress, don't expect it  
> to be
> there forever. One thing that's currently wrong with that diagram:  
> iPhone OS
> 3 and Chandler Hub not communicating as expected.)
>
> Regards
> Graham
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Organizing-projects-and-contexts-in-Chandler-tp3273097p3274527.html
> Sent from the Chandler users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> unsubscribe here: http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
> Chandler wiki: http://chandlerproject.org/wikihome

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unsubscribe here: http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
Chandler wiki: http://chandlerproject.org/wikihome

[Graham Perrin]

Recent discussion in the mozilla.support.calendar Usenet group:
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.calendar/browse_frm/thread/b87481fafec7c8b6>

The mozilla.support.calendar group drew attention to a requested enhancement to Mozilla Calendar:
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=194863>

[Graham Perrin]

Alexandre Leroux-2 wrote:

Is there a way to display all collections at the same time on the Chandler Hub like we can do with he Dashboard on the Desktop app? I did not find how.

You can select all collections; check/tick the boxes.

Whether your selection is remembered when you next log in to the Hub, I don't know.

can you tell me why not syncing all tasks and events to an iPhone?  

iPhone OS 2.x can not communicate with CalDAV servers. In the alternative methods of communication, which involve applications on Mac OS X or Windows: there are limitations.

Users of iPhone OS 3.x are affected by <https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12850>.

[Graham Perrin]

Alexandre Leroux-2 wrote:

… with tags

… what's missing in Chandler right now is "smart folders": automatically updated smart folders, displayed alongside collections, that list all tasks corresponding to a set of tag criteria.

… Let me know what you think of this! :-)

Collection = tag?

Without delving into the history of Chandler, I suspect that what we see as a collection was originally presented as a tag. Hint: the tag icon for each collection :-)

Tags, tagging, multiple word tags etc.

Personally, I have a horror of tagging.

When I wear my 'Diigo user' hat, I see many aspects to tagging. Some of what's at/around <http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/tag/tag> gives a flavour of the diverse perceptions and requirements.

<http://groups.diigo.com/Web2/bookmark/tag/semantic+tag> is a more positive reflection of a possibly happier future to tagging.

Smart folders

From a Mac OS X perspective: yes, I get this idea.

In practice, in Mail.app: I have hundreds of mailboxes but only five smart folders; four of the five are ignored and the one that I do use regularly is a simple collection of everything that is flagged. This reflects my somewhat old-fashioned roots and a tendency to limit myself to things that work with IMAP.

More often than smart folders, I use MsgFiler — not for finding messages, but for finding mailboxes (the containers for the messages). Keyword here for me is FAYT.

---

Re-focusing on Chandler: in all cases, I consider the group work perspectives.

In Diigo, I'm familiar with the group tag dictionary feature.

In Chandler: if we add tags, should we then have collection tag dictionaries?

Etc..

Regards
Graham

[Graham Perrin]

Graham Perrin wrote:

Alexandre Leroux-2 wrote:

Is there a way to display all collections at the same time on the Chandler Hub like we can do with the Dashboard on the Desktop app? I did not find how.

You can select all collections; check/tick the boxes.

Whether your selection is remembered when you next log in to the Hub, I don't know.

I checked:

* the multiple selection is limited to calendar (week) view

* the selection is discarded when you log out from the Hub, I guess that there's something in OSAF Bugzilla on this subject

* in summary list view you can select/view no more than one collection at a time.