Open issues

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Markus Neteler-2

Open issues

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Dear PSC,

my list of pressing open issues is as follows:
a) chair motion to be completed;
b) RFC1 (PSC) modification and adoption (merge all the comments into
the document);
c) RFC2  (Legal) adoption
d) CVS write access to S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin

I feel that we can do at least a), c) and d) pretty fast.

Markus


Paul Kelly

Re: Open issues

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Hello Markus,
Sorry for the lack of response from me on these important issues; I've
been travelling around a lot these last two weeks and when I have had time
to get at e-mail this hasn't been the most urgent thing so haven't been
following it thoroughly. But...

On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Markus Neteler wrote:

> Dear PSC,
>
> my list of pressing open issues is as follows:
> a) chair motion to be completed;

I am certainly in favour of you being the chair, especially if you are
happy to do it! ;) My only concern is that I feel a primary aim of the PSC
should be to spread some of the workload and it could end up that the
chair has to do most stuff. But if you're happy about doing it (why not -
totally the obvious and correct person for the job) then that's great. I'm
still not sure about the idea of this whole voting system and all the
"+1"-ing; it just seems a bit silly to me sometimes. I think a consensus
gained on the list through discussion and offering reasons for or against
a decision is better than everyone firing off quick e-mails containing two
characters, but I have not (yet) offered a better alternative so I will
keep my mouth shut for now.

> b) RFC1 (PSC) modification and adoption (merge all the comments into
> the document);

Yes. I think I proposed the most modifications but didn't formalise
anything into a diff so yes, I do feel a slight onus on myself to do some
of that and will get round to it.

> c) RFC2  (Legal) adoption

I looked over that and it all seems fine to me. Nothing surprising or
controversial there. I'm in favour of it.

> d) CVS write access to S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin

I don't see a problem here. New contributors just need to be reminded to
thoroughly read SUBMITTING and be aware that they will have to (at least
help to) support their contributions on other platforms than the one they
use. I think problems arise when someone develops something for personal
use, with assumptions that it will only be used on their system and then
the contribution into mainstream, multi-platform GRASS is like an
after-thought. Just saying that because I notice e.g. with the new r.li,
it has lots of compile errors on Windows and appears to use FIFOs which
won't work on Windows.

Paul


Markus Neteler-2

Re: Open issues

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Hello Paul,

On 12/6/06, Paul Kelly <[hidden email]> wrote:
...
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Markus Neteler wrote:
> > Dear PSC,
> >
> > my list of pressing open issues is as follows:
> > a) chair motion to be completed;
>
> I am certainly in favour of you being the chair, especially if you are
> happy to do it! ;)

"Happy" is definitely the wrong word. I am taking it as another burden :-)
Earlier I had hoped tjhat someone else would do it which doesn't
seem to be the case.

> My only concern is that I feel a primary aim of the PSC
> should be to spread some of the workload and it could end up that the
> chair has to do most stuff. But if you're happy about doing it (why not -
> totally the obvious and correct person for the job) then that's great.

I won't do the most work, since I already have too much to do in
the GRASS project. We'll see how it works out. And certainly it's
not a lifetime job.
I would accept the vote if we agree
- to keep PSC overhead as low as possible
- distribute the work among us

> I'm still not sure about the idea of this whole voting system and all the
> "+1"-ing; it just seems a bit silly to me sometimes. I think a consensus
> gained on the list through discussion and offering reasons for or against
> a decision is better than everyone firing off quick e-mails containing two
> characters, but I have not (yet) offered a better alternative so I will
> keep my mouth shut for now.

Maybe we can do as much as possible through discussion, but sometimes
we need to hear all individual voices for the formal things.

> > b) RFC1 (PSC) modification and adoption (merge all the comments into
> > the document);
>
> Yes. I think I proposed the most modifications but didn't formalise
> anything into a diff so yes, I do feel a slight onus on myself to do some
> of that and will get round to it.

I'll leave this one to others for now.

> > c) RFC2  (Legal) adoption
>
> I looked over that and it all seems fine to me. Nothing surprising or
> controversial there. I'm in favour of it.

Excellent.
I think that it will be adapted in future if needed.

> > d) CVS write access to S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin
>
> I don't see a problem here. New contributors just need to be reminded to
> thoroughly read SUBMITTING and be aware that they will have to (at least
> help to) support their contributions on other platforms than the one they
> use. I think problems arise when someone develops something for personal
> use, with assumptions that it will only be used on their system and then
> the contribution into mainstream, multi-platform GRASS is like an
> after-thought. Just saying that because I notice e.g. with the new r.li,
> it has lots of compile errors on Windows and appears to use FIFOs which
> won't work on Windows.

Concerning r.li: I assume that they do not know these problems yet.
But my point here is that I am doing their work of checking and submitting.
Due to my workload, I no longer want to be the bottleneck here.
Since S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin are able to work with CVS, we should
enable them to do so. I am really submitting too much for other people,
maybe we can invent a solution here (also merging translation files etc).

Cheers
Markus


Scott Mitchell-3

Re: Open issues

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On 6-Dec-06, at 09:50, Markus Neteler wrote:

> On 12/6/06, Paul Kelly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
>> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Markus Neteler wrote:
>> > Dear PSC,
>> >
>> > my list of pressing open issues is as follows:
>> > a) chair motion to be completed;
>>
>> I am certainly in favour of you being the chair, especially if you  
>> are
>> happy to do it! ;)
>
> "Happy" is definitely the wrong word. I am taking it as another  
> burden :-)
> Earlier I had hoped tjhat someone else would do it which doesn't
> seem to be the case.

I don't want to load up Markus either, but for the "chair-ship", my  
thinking is that at least in the initial stages, someone else being  
chair would probably end up asking Markus all the hard questions  
anyway, since Markus is the one that has been involved in the OSGEO  
discussions, the license audit, the web setup, etc etc...

Personally, for example, I don't think I could be an effective chair  
right now.  Maybe later, with the knowledge gained from working on this.

If you find this too much, or just feel at any point that it's time  
to revisit the issue, I'm sure we'd be happy to redistribute the  
load.  In the meantime, hopefully delegation can be the answer.

> I won't do the most work, since I already have too much to do in
> the GRASS project. We'll see how it works out. And certainly it's
> not a lifetime job.
> I would accept the vote if we agree
> - to keep PSC overhead as low as possible
> - distribute the work among us
>
I definitely support these.

>
>> > d) CVS write access to S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin
>>
>
> Due to my workload, I no longer want to be the bottleneck here.
> Since S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin are able to work with CVS, we should
> enable them to do so. I am really submitting too much for other  
> people,
> maybe we can invent a solution here (also merging translation files  
> etc).
>

Agreed again.  On the one hand, getting more people committing on  
their own is much better, and now we can do it with policy instead of  
ad-hoc.  On the other hand, for interim solutions / non-regular  
contributors, I am happy to take some of that load - I'm pretty  
confident using cvs (or even svn in the future?) for regular tasks,  
and feel much more secure about process / accountability now that we  
have had / will have discussions on proper licensing and decision  
process.

Hopefully that would help a BIT with your workload -- feel free to  
redirect some of these my way.

Cheers,
Scott




Helena Mitasova

Re: Open issues

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In reply to this post by Markus Neteler-2

On Dec 6, 2006, at 6:32 AM, Markus Neteler wrote:

> Dear PSC,
>
> my list of pressing open issues is as follows:
> a) chair motion to be completed;
> b) RFC1 (PSC) modification and adoption (merge all the comments into
> the document);
> c) RFC2  (Legal) adoption
> d) CVS write access to S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin
>
> I feel that we can do at least a), c) and d) pretty fast.

it looks like at this moment
a) is done
b) waits for Paul to include his edits - Markus, please put it up for  
vote when you think it is ready
c) should we vote again on this (I think we have voted on some  
version of it already)
d) we need summary of votes for this to see whether we still need  
more people to vote.

Helena

P.S. In spite of the detailed guidelines in RFC1 the voting still  
isn't quite clear:
- who initiates the voting process for a given proposal and calls end  
to voting?
- who tallies the vote?
I assume it is the chair? It would be useful to clarify this, especially
when we need to vote about multiple issues as above.


>
> Markus
>
> _______________________________________________
> grass-psc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc


Markus Neteler-2

Re: Open issues

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On 12/7/06, Helena Mitasova <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Dec 6, 2006, at 6:32 AM, Markus Neteler wrote:
> > Dear PSC,
> >
> > my list of pressing open issues is as follows:
> > a) chair motion to be completed;
> > b) RFC1 (PSC) modification and adoption (merge all the comments into
> > the document);
> > c) RFC2  (Legal) adoption
> > d) CVS write access to S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin
> >
> > I feel that we can do at least a), c) and d) pretty fast.
>
> it looks like at this moment
> a) is done

Right, chair motion is done, announcement is needed.

> b) waits for Paul to include his edits - Markus, please put it up for
> vote when you think it is ready

I have put RFC1 onto our new agenda:
http://grass.gdf-hannover.de/wiki/PSC

> c) should we vote again on this (I think we have voted on some
> version of it already)

RFC2  (Legal) is also done and announced.

> d) we need summary of votes for this to see whether we still need
> more people to vote.

S. Pallecchi: TODO (see other mail)
R. Antolin: granted (see other mail)

> Helena
>
> P.S. In spite of the detailed guidelines in RFC1 the voting still
> isn't quite clear:
> - who initiates the voting process for a given proposal and calls end
> to voting?

I think that any PSC member can put up a motion.

> - who tallies the vote?
> I assume it is the chair? It would be useful to clarify this, especially
> when we need to vote about multiple issues as above.

I would suggest that the person who has set up the motion also
tallies (with chair assistance). This would reduce a bit of workload
for the chair.
All this needs to be documented in RFC1.

Markus


Markus Neteler-2

Re: Open issues

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In reply to this post by Scott Mitchell-3
On 12/6/06, Scott Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 6-Dec-06, at 09:50, Markus Neteler wrote:
> > On 12/6/06, Paul Kelly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Markus Neteler wrote:
...

> >> > d) CVS write access to S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin
> >>
> >
> > Due to my workload, I no longer want to be the bottleneck here.
> > Since S. Pallecchi and R. Antolin are able to work with CVS, we should
> > enable them to do so. I am really submitting too much for other
> > people, maybe we can invent a solution here (also merging translation files
> > etc).
> >
>
> Agreed again.  On the one hand, getting more people committing on
> their own is much better, and now we can do it with policy instead of
> ad-hoc.  On the other hand, for interim solutions / non-regular
> contributors, I am happy to take some of that load - I'm pretty
> confident using cvs (or even svn in the future?) for regular tasks,
> and feel much more secure about process / accountability now that we
> have had / will have discussions on proper licensing and decision
> process.
>
> Hopefully that would help a BIT with your workload -- feel free to
> redirect some of these my way.

Thanks, Scott!

Probably I should iron out some "jobs" such as
- merging translation contributions (msgmerge of .po files)
- invite translators to contribute (ask regularly, find new)
- web page updates (Scott is already managing the mirror page)
- help new CVS committers in the beginning
- merge in user contributions
- many more items

Maybe we need a "jobs" section on the main page?

Markus