OSSIM Incubation Status

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Mark Lucas

OSSIM Incubation Status

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I'd like to recommend that the OSSIM project be voted on for OSGEO  
Incubation graduation.

OSSIM has been and continues to be a very active project.  One of the  
founding projects for OSGeo, the incubation review was completed in  
August of 2007 and the project was recommended for promotion.  Richard  
Gould, the OSGeo mentor recommended the project for approval on 2 Feb  
08.  During an online review in March 2008 several improvements to the  
licensing documentation and header structure were recommended and  
implemented.  No further incubation activity occurred until Sep 2008 -  
during an incubation committee meeting project status was requested.  
I was added to the incubation committee at that time.


There are no known issues that I'm aware of and I recommend that the  
OSSIM project brought up and voted on for graduation.  If there are  
issues or comments that I'm not aware of, please contact me directly  
and we'll get them addressed.

Mark Lucas
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Jody Garnett-2

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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I would like to hear from Richard on this one - is he available?
Jody

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Mark Lucas <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'd like to recommend that the OSSIM project be voted on for OSGEO Incubation graduation.

OSSIM has been and continues to be a very active project.  One of the founding projects for OSGeo, the incubation review was completed in August of 2007 and the project was recommended for promotion.  Richard Gould, the OSGeo mentor recommended the project for approval on 2 Feb 08.  During an online review in March 2008 several improvements to the licensing documentation and header structure were recommended and implemented.  No further incubation activity occurred until Sep 2008 - during an incubation committee meeting project status was requested.  I was added to the incubation committee at that time.


There are no known issues that I'm aware of and I recommend that the OSSIM project brought up and voted on for graduation.  If there are issues or comments that I'm not aware of, please contact me directly and we'll get them addressed.

Mark Lucas
_______________________________________________
Incubator mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator


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Cameron Shorter

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Mark,
OSSIM seems to be getting close.

Looking over: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status

I have the following comments:

---
I'm looking for more evidence of "Community Functioning"

Eg:

"Is there a functioning user support mechanisms (ie. mailing list)?

    existing and functioning well. mailing list and irc #ossimPlanet
    chat room"


I can't tell from this statement whether the community is communicating
well. I'm looking for something more like:
"Email list archives at: http://..., IRC at: ...  Our email lists
receives ~ XX emails a week, with ~  XX core contributors. We have XX
scheduled meetings per week/month, and generally have XX unscheduled
conversions on IRC per day/week.
Mention about in person meetings should be included here.

---

Please link to your Code Provenance Review from this wiki.

---

There are a number of other places where you should link to evidence
from this page, so that others can verify your claims.


Mark Lucas wrote:

> I'd like to recommend that the OSSIM project be voted on for OSGEO
> Incubation graduation.
>
> OSSIM has been and continues to be a very active project.  One of the
> founding projects for OSGeo, the incubation review was completed in
> August of 2007 and the project was recommended for promotion.  Richard
> Gould, the OSGeo mentor recommended the project for approval on 2 Feb
> 08.  During an online review in March 2008 several improvements to the
> licensing documentation and header structure were recommended and
> implemented.  No further incubation activity occurred until Sep 2008 -
> during an incubation committee meeting project status was requested.  
> I was added to the incubation committee at that time.
>
>
> There are no known issues that I'm aware of and I recommend that the
> OSSIM project brought up and voted on for graduation.  If there are
> issues or comments that I'm not aware of, please contact me directly
> and we'll get them addressed.
>
> Mark Lucas
> _______________________________________________
> Incubator mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator


--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Systems Architect
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com

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Mark Lucas

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Cameron,

Thanks for taking the time to review and providing the specific  
comments.  I've made a pass to incorporate the changes that you have  
suggested.  I'll spend some more time cross linking and making  
additions along these lines throughout the rest of the day.

Mark


On Feb 26, 2009, at 2:52 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:

> Mark,
> OSSIM seems to be getting close.
>
> Looking over: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
>
> I have the following comments:
>
> ---
> I'm looking for more evidence of "Community Functioning"
>
> Eg:
>
> "Is there a functioning user support mechanisms (ie. mailing list)?

Provided the link to the archives and usage status of the mailing  
list, summarized in the incubation paragraph.

>
>   existing and functioning well. mailing list and irc #ossimPlanet
>   chat room"
>

Described in more detail we average 10-15 people in the chat room.

> I can't tell from this statement whether the community is  
> communicating well. I'm looking for something more like:
> "Email list archives at: http://..., IRC at: ...  Our email lists  
> receives ~ XX emails a week, with ~  XX core contributors. We have  
> XX scheduled meetings per week/month, and generally have XX  
> unscheduled conversions on IRC per day/week.
> Mention about in person meetings should be included here. (done)

Status show several posts a day over the last five years.

>
> ---
>
> Please link to your Code Provenance Review from this wiki.

done.


>
> ---
>
> There are a number of other places where you should link to evidence  
> from this page, so that others can verify your claims.

Will begin making another pass through it seeing where I can improve  
things.  Please point me to any specific areas that you would like to  
see addressed.

>
>
> Mark Lucas wrote:
>> I'd like to recommend that the OSSIM project be voted on for OSGEO  
>> Incubation graduation.
>>
>> OSSIM has been and continues to be a very active project.  One of  
>> the founding projects for OSGeo, the incubation review was  
>> completed in August of 2007 and the project was recommended for  
>> promotion.  Richard Gould, the OSGeo mentor recommended the project  
>> for approval on 2 Feb 08.  During an online review in March 2008  
>> several improvements to the licensing documentation and header  
>> structure were recommended and implemented.  No further incubation  
>> activity occurred until Sep 2008 - during an incubation committee  
>> meeting project status was requested.  I was added to the  
>> incubation committee at that time.
>>
>>
>> There are no known issues that I'm aware of and I recommend that  
>> the OSSIM project brought up and voted on for graduation.  If there  
>> are issues or comments that I'm not aware of, please contact me  
>> directly and we'll get them addressed.
>>
>> Mark Lucas
>> _______________________________________________
>> Incubator mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>
>
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Geospatial Systems Architect
> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>
> Think Globally, Fix Locally
> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> http://www.lisasoft.com
>

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Richard Gould-2

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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In reply to this post by Mark Lucas
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Mark Lucas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'd like to recommend that the OSSIM project be voted on for OSGEO
> Incubation graduation.
>
> OSSIM has been and continues to be a very active project.  One of the
> founding projects for OSGeo, the incubation review was completed in August
> of 2007 and the project was recommended for promotion.  Richard Gould, the
> OSGeo mentor recommended the project for approval on 2 Feb 08.  During an
> online review in March 2008 several improvements to the licensing
> documentation and header structure were recommended and implemented.  No
> further incubation activity occurred until Sep 2008 - during an incubation
> committee meeting project status was requested.  I was added to the
> incubation committee at that time.
>
>
> There are no known issues that I'm aware of and I recommend that the OSSIM
> project brought up and voted on for graduation.  If there are issues or
> comments that I'm not aware of, please contact me directly and we'll get
> them addressed.

If I recall correctly, the only possible issue that was brought up
when OSSIM was recommended for graduation was some confusion of source
code headers. I recall there was some intention to resolve this, but I
have not been keeping up with mentor duties nor following the project,
so I do not know whether this was resolved or not. Unfortunately at
this moment I do not have the time to look into or assist in this
matter. Perhaps somebody else would be kind enough to volunteer?

The email I refer to is here:

http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2008-March/000915.html

There were some follow ups, but it seems that they were not captured
in the archives.

Richard
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Frank Warmerdam

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Richard Gould wrote:

> If I recall correctly, the only possible issue that was brought up
> when OSSIM was recommended for graduation was some confusion of source
> code headers. I recall there was some intention to resolve this, but I
> have not been keeping up with mentor duties nor following the project,
> so I do not know whether this was resolved or not. Unfortunately at
> this moment I do not have the time to look into or assist in this
> matter. Perhaps somebody else would be kind enough to volunteer?
>
> The email I refer to is here:
>
> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2008-March/000915.html
>
> There were some follow ups, but it seems that they were not captured
> in the archives.

Mark,

I have the same question.  A single examination of ossimPlanetQtMainWindow
indicates there is still no in-file license header in trunk.  It is possible
some of my questions were responded to at the time, but unfortunately I can't
find any record of it.  Perhaps I'm missing it.

I'd add the last part of my questions at:

   http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2008-March/000910.html

related to governance, and I don't know if that was addressed.

"""
The other point I'd like to raise is where does the PSC discuss
decisions that need to be made?  I'm on the ossim-developer list
and I don't recall ever seeing anything that looked like a PSC
discussion though I only lightly skim the list.  The governance
document is ... brief ... which is ok I suppose, but I am still
looking for a sense that the governance structure is operating
rather than just notional.
"""

I'm personally very comfortable that the mailing lists are active,
that there is a significant user community and things are generally
functioning well.  But I'm still feeling governance - how decisions
are made - is opaque, and I don't recall any decisions made as a
community though I must confess I'm not following things closely.

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent

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Mark Lucas

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status - License

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On Mar 4, 2009, at 11:02 AM, Frank Warmerdam wrote:

> Richard Gould wrote:
>> If I recall correctly, the only possible issue that was brought up
>> when OSSIM was recommended for graduation was some confusion of  
>> source
>> code headers. I recall there was some intention to resolve this,  
>> but I
>> have not been keeping up with mentor duties nor following the  
>> project,
>> so I do not know whether this was resolved or not. Unfortunately at
>> this moment I do not have the time to look into or assist in this
>> matter. Perhaps somebody else would be kind enough to volunteer?
>> The email I refer to is here:
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2008-March/000915.html
>> There were some follow ups, but it seems that they were not captured
>> in the archives.
>
> Mark,
>
> I have the same question.  A single examination of  
> ossimPlanetQtMainWindow
> indicates there is still no in-file license header in trunk.  It is  
> possible
> some of my questions were responded to at the time, but  
> unfortunately I can't
> find any record of it.  Perhaps I'm missing it.

LICENSE.TXT and LGPL.TXT are are placed at the top of all of the key  
subdirectories in the OSSIM library.  We also addressed the questions  
that were previously raised about shapelib, matrix, kbool, and  
Geotrans by the header in the OSSIM directory shown below.

We have elected not to place this information in every file.  Many of  
the files are generated by other tools and we believe it is an  
unnecessary to convey the license and our intent.  OSSIM is a fairly  
large baseline.  A file count shows over 25,000 files.

We elected to place the following at the top level in the OSSIM  
directory:

The OSSIM tree embeds some code from other libraries as well new  
code.  We will describe the license terms of the embedded modules as  
well as the license of the ossim core engine.  All code derived or  
embedded in the ossim core engine should not restrict the use of  
commercial purposes.

1.  OSSIM engine abides by the LGPL license terms.  We grant you the  
use of the OSSIM core engine in commercial or non commercial use  
without royalty as long as the credits for the original authors stay  
within the source code.  See the top level LGPL.txt found found here  
along side the LICENSE.txt.

2.  shapelib.  The shape library was written by Frank Warmerdam and  
has an MIT Style license these files include:
        dbfopen.c shpopen.c shptree.c
and are located in src/ossim/vec directory.  They have the following  
copyright
******************************************************************************
  * Copyright (c) 1999, Frank Warmerdam
  *
  * This software is available under the following "MIT Style" license,
  * or at the option of the licensee under the LGPL (see  
LICENSE.LGPL).  This
  * option is discussed in more detail in shapelib.html.
  *
  * --
  *
  * Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person  
obtaining a
  * copy of this software and associated documentation files (the  
"Software"),
  * to deal in the Software without restriction, including without  
limitation
  * the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute,  
sublicense,
  * and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom  
the
  * Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
  *
  * The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be  
included
  * in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
  *
  * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,  
EXPRESS
  * OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF  
MERCHANTABILITY,
  * FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT  
SHALL
  * THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES  
OR OTHER
  * LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE,  
ARISING
  * FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER
  * DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.



3. The matrix library was written by Robert Davies.  At the time of  
download the site was located at http://www.robertnz.net. He gives  
free use in commercial and non commercial as long as his code remains  
in tact and the credits for the author are known.

4. The kbool library does polygon boolean operation and is used by the  
ossimPolyArea2d class.  The license terms are based on the wxwidgets  
licensing which gives free use in commercial and non-commercial  
libraries.  At the time of download the module used could be found at: http://boolean.klaasholwerda.nl/download/download.html

5. Geotrans.  The geotrans library is a set of map projections that  
are certified and hosted by NGA.  They give free use in commercial and  
non commercial software packages and at the time of download the  
geotrans modules could be found at http://earth-info.nga.mil/GandG/geotrans/ 
.  We have embedded the datum, ellipsoid, and map projections into the  
ossim baseline and wrapped in C++ classes so to remove the global  
variable access common in the raw getorans c library.




> Best regards,
> --
> ---------------------------------------
> +--------------------------------------
> I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
> light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
> and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for  
> Rent
>
>

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Mark Lucas

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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On Mar 4, 2009, at 11:02 AM, Frank Warmerdam wrote:

> related to governance, and I don't know if that was addressed.
>
> """
> The other point I'd like to raise is where does the PSC discuss
> decisions that need to be made?  I'm on the ossim-developer list
> and I don't recall ever seeing anything that looked like a PSC
> discussion though I only lightly skim the list.  The governance
> document is ... brief ... which is ok I suppose, but I am still
> looking for a sense that the governance structure is operating
> rather than just notional.
> """
>
> I'm personally very comfortable that the mailing lists are active,
> that there is a significant user community and things are generally
> functioning well.  But I'm still feeling governance - how decisions
> are made - is opaque, and I don't recall any decisions made as a
> community though I must confess I'm not following things closely.

It is probably a fair criticism that the majority of PSC discussions  
occur face to face versus on the mailing list.  OSSIM is probably  
somewhat unique in that the primary contributors all make their living  
developing OSSIM for professional services.  Over the history of the  
baseline the core developers have worked for different organizations  
and companies, but have always operated as a virtual team.  Three of  
the four PSC contributors work in the same room every day.  Dave  
Burken works in another location and we attempt to meet for lunch at  
least once a month.  Typically the discussion is on OSSIM and on  
improvements that we'd like to make.  Most of the work that occurs on  
the baseline is driven by funded requirements and we do our best to  
summarize features that we plan to add and changes we intend to make.  
Garrett and Dave do a pretty good job of announcing on the list what  
they are thinking and what they intend to work on.  In most cases  
there is little comment on their posts.

We actively encourage contributions and periodically get fixes and  
enhancements from around the world.  When the level of contribution  
and activity rises we try to quickly establish a module that the  
contributor can work in.  Problems and fixes are reviewed fairly  
rapidly and merged into the system.

Can we do a better job at communicating on the mailing list -  
certainly.  We make a concerted effort to communicate our plans and  
thoughts and quickly respond to questions, comments, and suggestions  
on the mailing list.  If you review the mailing lists archives you  
will find numerous examples where architectural or interface changes  
were announced by Garrett as areas that he intends to begin work on in  
an effort to seek out comments.

We will continue to make a concerted effort to push more of this  
discussion on to the mailing list.  We certainly are very open to  
questions, comments, and discussion on the list.  I can't remember an  
instance where we didn't respond in a timely manner or rejected any  
reasonable suggestion or comment.  Our intent is to be very  
transparent in everything that we are doing.

Mark



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Jody Garnett-2

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Hi Mark:

Thanks for the background.

I am comfortable with this - meeting for lunch is a fine way to run a
PSC. For the incubation requirements I mostly want to to ensure that it
is public that this is where decisions are made; and that others can
invite themselves along for lunch if they want.

Or intent is to be up front with how OSSIM is managed; and to ensure the
community has some idea how they would integrate a new PSC member
(preferably documented). The decisions you arrive at may not be optimal
from a distributed project standpoint; we just want to be sure you
arrive at them.

The GeoNetwork project made a lot of its decisions at a yearly
face-to-face meeting. They have since set up a PSC - but I believe that
the face to face meeting still forms part of their culture.

Jody

Mark Lucas wrote:

> It is probably a fair criticism that the majority of PSC discussions
> occur face to face versus on the mailing list.  OSSIM is probably
> somewhat unique in that the primary contributors all make their living
> developing OSSIM for professional services.  Over the history of the
> baseline the core developers have worked for different organizations
> and companies, but have always operated as a virtual team.  Three of
> the four PSC contributors work in the same room every day.  Dave
> Burken works in another location and we attempt to meet for lunch at
> least once a month.  Typically the discussion is on OSSIM and on
> improvements that we'd like to make.  Most of the work that occurs on
> the baseline is driven by funded requirements and we do our best to
> summarize features that we plan to add and changes we intend to make.  
> Garrett and Dave do a pretty good job of announcing on the list what
> they are thinking and what they intend to work on.  In most cases
> there is little comment on their posts.
>
> We actively encourage contributions and periodically get fixes and
> enhancements from around the world.  When the level of contribution
> and activity rises we try to quickly establish a module that the
> contributor can work in.  Problems and fixes are reviewed fairly
> rapidly and merged into the system.
>
> Can we do a better job at communicating on the mailing list -
> certainly.  We make a concerted effort to communicate our plans and
> thoughts and quickly respond to questions, comments, and suggestions
> on the mailing list.  If you review the mailing lists archives you
> will find numerous examples where architectural or interface changes
> were announced by Garrett as areas that he intends to begin work on in
> an effort to seek out comments.
>
> We will continue to make a concerted effort to push more of this
> discussion on to the mailing list.  We certainly are very open to
> questions, comments, and discussion on the list.  I can't remember an
> instance where we didn't respond in a timely manner or rejected any
> reasonable suggestion or comment.  Our intent is to be very
> transparent in everything that we are doing.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Incubator mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator

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Cameron Shorter

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Face to face meetings are more effective than email lists for working
out project issues.
The only downside is that they don't automatically generate logs of
discussions like email lists and IRC channels.

What I suggest is:
* Write down your process for meetings, which would probably be
something like:
** Send meeting request, xx number of days before meeting, allowing
interested parties to participate.
** Meet face to face
** Describe voting process (1 member = 1 vote)
** Document decisions in wiki/email list/ ...

The documented decisions are the key part that you will reference in
order to prove an effective PSC.

Is this achievable?

Jody Garnett wrote:

> Hi Mark:
>
> Thanks for the background.
>
> I am comfortable with this - meeting for lunch is a fine way to run a
> PSC. For the incubation requirements I mostly want to to ensure that
> it is public that this is where decisions are made; and that others
> can invite themselves along for lunch if they want.
>
> Or intent is to be up front with how OSSIM is managed; and to ensure
> the community has some idea how they would integrate a new PSC member
> (preferably documented). The decisions you arrive at may not be
> optimal from a distributed project standpoint; we just want to be sure
> you arrive at them.
>
> The GeoNetwork project made a lot of its decisions at a yearly
> face-to-face meeting. They have since set up a PSC - but I believe
> that the face to face meeting still forms part of their culture.
>
> Jody
>
> Mark Lucas wrote:
>> It is probably a fair criticism that the majority of PSC discussions
>> occur face to face versus on the mailing list.  OSSIM is probably
>> somewhat unique in that the primary contributors all make their
>> living developing OSSIM for professional services.  Over the history
>> of the baseline the core developers have worked for different
>> organizations and companies, but have always operated as a virtual
>> team.  Three of the four PSC contributors work in the same room every
>> day.  Dave Burken works in another location and we attempt to meet
>> for lunch at least once a month.  Typically the discussion is on
>> OSSIM and on improvements that we'd like to make.  Most of the work
>> that occurs on the baseline is driven by funded requirements and we
>> do our best to summarize features that we plan to add and changes we
>> intend to make.  Garrett and Dave do a pretty good job of announcing
>> on the list what they are thinking and what they intend to work on.  
>> In most cases there is little comment on their posts.
>>
>> We actively encourage contributions and periodically get fixes and
>> enhancements from around the world.  When the level of contribution
>> and activity rises we try to quickly establish a module that the
>> contributor can work in.  Problems and fixes are reviewed fairly
>> rapidly and merged into the system.
>>
>> Can we do a better job at communicating on the mailing list -
>> certainly.  We make a concerted effort to communicate our plans and
>> thoughts and quickly respond to questions, comments, and suggestions
>> on the mailing list.  If you review the mailing lists archives you
>> will find numerous examples where architectural or interface changes
>> were announced by Garrett as areas that he intends to begin work on
>> in an effort to seek out comments.
>>
>> We will continue to make a concerted effort to push more of this
>> discussion on to the mailing list.  We certainly are very open to
>> questions, comments, and discussion on the list.  I can't remember an
>> instance where we didn't respond in a timely manner or rejected any
>> reasonable suggestion or comment.  Our intent is to be very
>> transparent in everything that we are doing.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Incubator mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>
> _______________________________________________
> Incubator mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator


--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Systems Architect
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com

_______________________________________________
Incubator mailing list
[hidden email]
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Frank Warmerdam

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Folks,

At this point I am pretty satisfied with the condition of the OSSIM code.
Are there any issues that folks would like to see addressed before I
make a motion for OSSIM to graduate?  Information on incubation status
and provenance review are available at:

   http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
   http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimprovenance

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent

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Daniel Morissette

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>
> At this point I am pretty satisfied with the condition of the OSSIM code.
> Are there any issues that folks would like to see addressed before I
> make a motion for OSSIM to graduate?  Information on incubation status
> and provenance review are available at:
>
>   http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
>   http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimprovenance
>

I read in the incubation status page and in the Openness evaluation page
at http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimopenness that there are 6 PSC
members, but the OSSIM Governance page only lists four:
http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimgovernance. Since this "OSSIM
Governance page" is expected to be the main reference about the PSC it
should be updated now and kept up to date in the future.

My main comment overall is that I find that the way the PSC operates
with face to face meetings is a bit unusual and can be a barrier to new
contributors following/joining the project. As an outsider, reading a
summary of the meeting is not the same as being able to follow the whole
discussion and decision process as it evolves. OTOH the developers list
for OSSIM seems quite active so perhaps that's not that big a deal and
we need to be open to new ways to do things.

If I remember correctly, similar concerns were raised about MapBender
which had most (all?) of its developers under the same roof, and FDO for
which I was mentor and had its graduation delayed until the PSC would
demonstrate the opennness of its decision process and developers community.

Once again, I don't necessarily see this as a blocker since contrary to
the other cases that I listed above the OSSIM developers list seems
fairly active already. Any opinions on that?

Daniel
--
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http://www.mapgears.com/
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Mark Lucas

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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On Apr 3, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Daniel Morissette wrote:

> Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>> At this point I am pretty satisfied with the condition of the OSSIM  
>> code.
>> Are there any issues that folks would like to see addressed before I
>> make a motion for OSSIM to graduate?  Information on incubation  
>> status
>> and provenance review are available at:
>>  http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
>>  http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimprovenance
>
> I read in the incubation status page and in the Openness evaluation  
> page at http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimopenness that there  
> are 6 PSC members, but the OSSIM Governance page only lists four:
> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimgovernance. Since this "OSSIM  
> Governance page" is expected to be the main reference about the PSC  
> it should be updated now and kept up to date in the future.

Updated, there are currently 4 active PSC members.

>
> My main comment overall is that I find that the way the PSC operates  
> with face to face meetings is a bit unusual and can be a barrier to  
> new contributors following/joining the project. As an outsider,  
> reading a summary of the meeting is not the same as being able to  
> follow the whole discussion and decision process as it evolves. OTOH  
> the developers list for OSSIM seems quite active so perhaps that's  
> not that big a deal and we need to be open to new ways to do things.

It is human nature, three of us work under the same roof at the  
current time, Dave Burken works 20 minutes away. We do our best to  
force communications through the internet, but it is human nature to  
just talk things over when you are working in close proximity.  We  
also support the #ossimplanet chat channel.  Typically there are 10 to  
15 subscribers watching the checkins to the baseline.   We have always  
actively encouraged contributions from members on the list.  This  
often takes the form of infrequent patches etc.  Occasionally we will  
have an active contributor that works on a module using the plugin  
infrastructure.  If the submissions start becoming regular we normally  
grant svn checkin while they are active.  If there are long periods of  
inactivity we turn off commit.

I think the key point is that we desire and encourage contributions  
and participation.  As in any project, the active contributors will be  
the ones that control the overall direction of the project.

OSSIM is fairly active, today was typical with 13 emails posted to the  
list.  There were 9 checkins to svn today.

Mark


>
> If I remember correctly, similar concerns were raised about  
> MapBender which had most (all?) of its developers under the same  
> roof, and FDO for which I was mentor and had its graduation delayed  
> until the PSC would demonstrate the opennness of its decision  
> process and developers community.
>
> Once again, I don't necessarily see this as a blocker since contrary  
> to the other cases that I listed above the OSSIM developers list  
> seems fairly active already. Any opinions on that?
>
> Daniel
> --
> Daniel Morissette
> http://www.mapgears.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Incubator mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator

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Daniel Morissette

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Thanks for addressing my questions Mark. I'm happy with the answers and
have nothing to add.

Daniel


Mark Lucas wrote:

>
> On Apr 3, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Daniel Morissette wrote:
>
>> Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>>> At this point I am pretty satisfied with the condition of the OSSIM
>>> code.
>>> Are there any issues that folks would like to see addressed before I
>>> make a motion for OSSIM to graduate?  Information on incubation status
>>> and provenance review are available at:
>>>  http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
>>>  http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimprovenance
>>
>> I read in the incubation status page and in the Openness evaluation
>> page at http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimopenness that there are
>> 6 PSC members, but the OSSIM Governance page only lists four:
>> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimgovernance. Since this "OSSIM
>> Governance page" is expected to be the main reference about the PSC it
>> should be updated now and kept up to date in the future.
>
> Updated, there are currently 4 active PSC members.
>
>>
>> My main comment overall is that I find that the way the PSC operates
>> with face to face meetings is a bit unusual and can be a barrier to
>> new contributors following/joining the project. As an outsider,
>> reading a summary of the meeting is not the same as being able to
>> follow the whole discussion and decision process as it evolves. OTOH
>> the developers list for OSSIM seems quite active so perhaps that's not
>> that big a deal and we need to be open to new ways to do things.
>
> It is human nature, three of us work under the same roof at the current
> time, Dave Burken works 20 minutes away. We do our best to force
> communications through the internet, but it is human nature to just talk
> things over when you are working in close proximity.  We also support
> the #ossimplanet chat channel.  Typically there are 10 to 15 subscribers
> watching the checkins to the baseline.   We have always actively
> encouraged contributions from members on the list.  This often takes the
> form of infrequent patches etc.  Occasionally we will have an active
> contributor that works on a module using the plugin infrastructure.  If
> the submissions start becoming regular we normally grant svn checkin
> while they are active.  If there are long periods of inactivity we turn
> off commit.
>
> I think the key point is that we desire and encourage contributions and
> participation.  As in any project, the active contributors will be the
> ones that control the overall direction of the project.
>
> OSSIM is fairly active, today was typical with 13 emails posted to the
> list.  There were 9 checkins to svn today.
>
> Mark
>
>
>>
>> If I remember correctly, similar concerns were raised about MapBender
>> which had most (all?) of its developers under the same roof, and FDO
>> for which I was mentor and had its graduation delayed until the PSC
>> would demonstrate the opennness of its decision process and developers
>> community.
>>
>> Once again, I don't necessarily see this as a blocker since contrary
>> to the other cases that I listed above the OSSIM developers list seems
>> fairly active already. Any opinions on that?
>>
>> Daniel
>> --
>> Daniel Morissette
>> http://www.mapgears.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Incubator mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>


--
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http://www.mapgears.com/
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Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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In reply to this post by Frank Warmerdam
Folks,
from what I can tell OSSIM is fine to graduate, the last issue was
resolved [1] so what are we waiting for?

Best regards,
Arnulf.

[1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2009-April/001100.html

On Wed, April 1, 2009 06:11, Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>

> Folks,
>
>
> At this point I am pretty satisfied with the condition of the OSSIM code.
>  Are there any issues that folks would like to see addressed before I
> make a motion for OSSIM to graduate?  Information on incubation status and
> provenance review are available at:
>
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimprovenance
>
>
> Best regards,
> --
> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------
> ----
> I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
> [hidden email] light and sound - activate the windows |
> http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
> and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
>
> _______________________________________________
> Incubator mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>
>


--
Arnulf Christl
http://www.wheregroup.com

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Jody Garnett-2

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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I think we are good; and should get voting out of the way before the
next osgeo board meeting.

Jody

Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:

> Folks,
> from what I can tell OSSIM is fine to graduate, the last issue was
> resolved [1] so what are we waiting for?
>
> Best regards,
> Arnulf.
>
> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2009-April/001100.html
>
> On Wed, April 1, 2009 06:11, Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>  
>
>  
>> Folks,
>>
>>
>> At this point I am pretty satisfied with the condition of the OSSIM code.
>>  Are there any issues that folks would like to see addressed before I
>> make a motion for OSSIM to graduate?  Information on incubation status and
>> provenance review are available at:
>>
>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
>> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimprovenance
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> --
>> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------
>> ----
>> I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
>> [hidden email] light and sound - activate the windows |
>> http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
>> and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Incubator mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>
>>
>>    
>
>
>  

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Cameron Shorter-2

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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+1 for graduation from me.

Jody Garnett wrote:

> I think we are good; and should get voting out of the way before the
> next osgeo board meeting.
>
> Jody
>
> Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:
>> Folks,
>> from what I can tell OSSIM is fine to graduate, the last issue was
>> resolved [1] so what are we waiting for?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Arnulf.
>>
>> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2009-April/001100.html
>>
>> On Wed, April 1, 2009 06:11, Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>>  
>>  
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>>
>>> At this point I am pretty satisfied with the condition of the OSSIM
>>> code.
>>>  Are there any issues that folks would like to see addressed before I
>>> make a motion for OSSIM to graduate?  Information on incubation
>>> status and
>>> provenance review are available at:
>>>
>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
>>> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimprovenance
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> --
>>> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------
>>>
>>> ----
>>> I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
>>> [hidden email] light and sound - activate the windows |
>>> http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
>>> and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Incubator mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>>
>>
>>  
>
> _______________________________________________
> Incubator mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator


--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Systems Architect
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com

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Daniel Morissette

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Usually the mentor summarizes status, makes the motion and opens the
vote... not sure if that's a requirement or just tradition though.

Daniel

Cameron Shorter wrote:

> +1 for graduation from me.
>
> Jody Garnett wrote:
>> I think we are good; and should get voting out of the way before the
>> next osgeo board meeting.
>>
>> Jody
>>
>> Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>> from what I can tell OSSIM is fine to graduate, the last issue was
>>> resolved [1] so what are we waiting for?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Arnulf.
>>>
>>> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2009-April/001100.html
>>>
>>> On Wed, April 1, 2009 06:11, Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>>>  
>>>  
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At this point I am pretty satisfied with the condition of the OSSIM
>>>> code.
>>>>  Are there any issues that folks would like to see addressed before I
>>>> make a motion for OSSIM to graduate?  Information on incubation
>>>> status and
>>>> provenance review are available at:
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
>>>> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimprovenance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> --
>>>> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
>>>> [hidden email] light and sound - activate the windows |
>>>> http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
>>>> and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Incubator mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Incubator mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>
>


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Jody Garnett-2

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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It is how I tell the mentor thinks it is ready....however richard has
spoken up a couple of times now.

Jody

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Daniel Morissette
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Usually the mentor summarizes status, makes the motion and opens the vote...
> not sure if that's a requirement or just tradition though.
>
> Daniel
>
> Cameron Shorter wrote:
>>
>> +1 for graduation from me.
>>
>> Jody Garnett wrote:
>>>
>>> I think we are good; and should get voting out of the way before the next
>>> osgeo board meeting.
>>>
>>> Jody
>>>
>>> Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>> from what I can tell OSSIM is fine to graduate, the last issue was
>>>> resolved [1] so what are we waiting for?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Arnulf.
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2009-April/001100.html
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, April 1, 2009 06:11, Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point I am pretty satisfied with the condition of the OSSIM
>>>>> code.
>>>>>  Are there any issues that folks would like to see addressed before I
>>>>> make a motion for OSSIM to graduate?  Information on incubation status
>>>>> and
>>>>> provenance review are available at:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSSIM_incubation_status
>>>>> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/wiki/ossimprovenance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>> I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
>>>>> [hidden email] light and sound - activate the windows |
>>>>> http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
>>>>> and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Incubator mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Incubator mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Morissette
> http://www.mapgears.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Incubator mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>
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Frank Warmerdam

Re: OSSIM Incubation Status

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Jody Garnett wrote:
> It is how I tell the mentor thinks it is ready....however richard has
> spoken up a couple of times now.
>
> Jody
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Daniel Morissette
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Usually the mentor summarizes status, makes the motion and opens the vote...
>> not sure if that's a requirement or just tradition though.

Folks,

I would appreciate that a member of the committee bring forward a formal
motion before we start +1'ing willy nilly.  It would normally be the mentor
unless they are incapacitated or something.  The motion should identify the
person intended to be the officer responsible for the project (Mark? Garrett?)
which is normally also the PSC chair.

As Daniel suggests, such a motion would also normally refer to any online
documentation on incubation status so folks can review before voting.

So, as committee chair I'd like to put the brakes on this vote.  If Richard
is available, then he should introduce a motion. If not, someone else can.

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent

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