'New' faith $120K ad campaign - selling candy to children?

[wei-han]

Francis Macnab of the Collins St Uniting Church - directly opposite Scots Church - is at it again, promoting his liberal and heterodox version of the Christian faith.  Only this time, it seems as if he's quite happy to ditch even the adjective 'Christian' and go with 'a new faith for the 21st century'.  

See:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/new-faith-throws-out-the-ten-commandments-20080915-4h3d.html

A few points from the article:
- he calls Moses a mass murderer and Jesus a Jewish peasant who was certainly not God
- there is no God, just a presence within and between us
- new faith transcends dogma and denominations and religions
- new faith is 'a more humanitarian understanding'

- he's engaged the media guru who advised George Pell when he was Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne
- there's a giant banner now up on his building, cnr Collins and Russell Sts
- he's spending $120,000
- he's not accountable to the rest of the Uniting Church

In a sense he's not doing anything new or that hasn't been done by the world before.  But it's different when a clerical person does it.  It gives it the imprimatur of the church and affects the public perception of the Christian faith.  So it affects the ministry that all of us are trying to do.  

Action: write into The Age with a response to this!

2. Selling candy to children.  One of the things I’ve been thinking about is the extent to which we identify with people and their thinking, needs and wants as we proclaim Christ.  So, in Acts 17, Paul shows that he understands what they’re reading and their religious culture; affirms what he can; corrects them and proclaims the differences.  

Macnab is simply saying to the culture what they want to hear already – that religious difference is evil and all we need to be is more in touch with ourselves and do good.  But because of this, he'll probably win converts and a lot of airspace some media outlets.  It's just like selling candy to children!  Plus he’s spending real money on a real campaign, so he'll probably sell lots.  

Question for discussion: how far do we go in evangelism in meeting our culture’s expectations or ‘felt needs’ in order to make a connection?  

At one end of the spectrum (for exaggeration's sake) there's the 'Here's a Bible in its pure original languages, read it and be converted' tactic - and at the other there's the HWP gospel sans Jesus, the Cross and heaven and hell.  

I’ve just been reading a new evangelistic tool from an IVF staffworker in the US – James Choung’s True Story.  It seemed so relevant and better connected to creation theology than say, Two Ways to Live, until I finished the book and realised there was no heaven or hell.  Oops.  

[Andrew Stagg]

"Dr Macnab, ~ said the new faith was necessary because the old faith no longer worked."

"We want to make the new faith more believable, realistic and helpful in terms of the way people live," he said."

Ah yes - design your own faith!! H'm, I wonder what sort of guarantee that sort of faith comes with - It's not as if you'd expect it to have a life time warranty and your money back if you don't get into heaven !!

[Matt Williams]

Well, it's sort of selling candy to children.

But then again, it's more like selling candy to children who already have a lifetime's supply of candy.

Don't millions of people already believe there is no God but sense a 'presence'? Does he imagine they'll feel such affinity for him pronouncing their long held belief they will start spending their Sunday mornings in Collins Street Uniting to be reaffirmed in their unbelief? How much traction can such a movement get?

Sure it will get media airtime, but it will get little traction as a 'faith', except among a dwindling few who need church as an emotional crutch but have already lost their faith in Jesus Christ. It may take from the existing church but it surely cannot attract from outside the church.

There is no power in selling the culture what it already has without you. There is power in selling heresies that offer something people want but don't have; but not selling heresies that offer people something they know they have already.

Australia is different to the US. There is not enough cultural respectability attached to going to church to cause many unbelievers to latch onto churches that share their unbelief. Australians are sensible people who would sooner reclaim their Sundays for sleep-ins; lazy brunches and outlet shopping.

And frankly, since I like to think of myself as a sensible person, so would I. Such a choice has the added bonus of avoiding all those irritating baby-boomer 'Christians' pontificating about how sophisticated they are to not really believe in God, though they can't quite get on without their hour-long fix of hard-bench seating and post-religious postulation once a week...fortnight...month...

[Matt Williams]

From the St Michael's Church website under 'baptisms' (that's where Francis Macnab has been senior minister since 1971):

"Please note that during the service, the offering plates will be passed to all people present. It is expected that all will contribute at that time; even if they belong to another church. We encourage visitors to make a significant donation to mark this important event."

Hmm.  I guess that's what happens when a church isn't really into grace anymore, or has no God to give them any...

[Tim Patrick]

I agree with Matt.

My question is: Where does he get the cash for this??

Tim

[jwhkuan]

I don't know about St Michael's or Macnab in particular, but it's often the case in Melbourne Anglicanism that lots of money is found in trust funds that were originally evangelical or at least mission-focussed in origin.  That's a separate discussion about money, trust funds and the impact on long term ministry.

[Steve Weickhardt]

Regarding evangelism and how far we go...

Paul's method was definitely to go to a location and find people *willing to listen to him*. He preached in the synagogues, markets, rivers and houses, and when he found people to listen, he taught them more and developed the churches. Now I am very aware I am speaking to those who know this.

My point is, we need to be out finding those people who are thirsting for more, actually talking to people about Jesus and finding those who are willing to hear more and be taught more. Danny Saunders spoke about this with his initiative at Greensborough, and I have done similar things on mission, in my previous Parish and in schools. AFES & CU do the same thing on Uni campuses.

It is my belief working across large numbers of Parishes in a previous life that a majority of Anglican (and other denominational) churches *really* don't want to do this. Of course, some do, but the majority want people to *come to them*.
I have spoken to heaps of clergy and youth leaders across all traditions, and when it comes to the crunch, most want a model where they put out some advertising or word of mouth, and the people come along to the building/centre.

Jesus didn't. Paul didn't. The apostles didn't - we know that by their very title - they were sent.

Until we get *out* of our buildings and *into* the places people are at with our message of hope and grace through Christ, our evangelism will be churchy and predicatable (mostly).
Where are the people at?
Shopping centres. Sports clubs (footy, cricket, karate, dancing, golf, etc). Markets. Schools. Universities. Tafes. Neighbourhood Houses.

I work with a range of local community groups, have done for about 2.5 years here in my community, unpaid and voluntary, at the cost of study and family time. Over the last couple of months (after years) I have been able to share the gospel to a number of people who have had very little or no connection with a church - ever. No CRE, no baptisms, the odd wedding or funeral, maybe. But absolutely no idea of who Christ is or what Easter is about. Never heard the whole Nativity story.

Let's get OUT there INTO the community and meet the people who want to know Jesus, they just don't know it yet. Sports Chaplaincy is full of potential - many local sports clubs are willing to try a chaplain because most of the elite clubs have them (look at Sports Chaplaincy Australia). There are chapels in some Shopping Centres, can we expand that ministry. And of course we always, ALWAYS need more CRE teachers in Primary Schools, and this is a HUGE mission field.

When those who are thirsty hear the good news and recognise it, then you have the people God wants you to work with, not the same old friends of parishioners and regular "fringe" members who get a letter whenever a new initiative is launched. Sorry, that's a little cynical. Maybe I've seen it happen a little too often.

Steve

[Jereth]

I found out the other day that there is a network of "confessing" Uniting Churches, its formation precipitated by the non-stop apostasy in that denomination, particularly the ordination of homosexuals. (sounds familiar anyone?)
http://www.confessingcongregations.com/

This is very encouraging. Although it appears most of the congregations are either rural or on the outskirts of Melbourne.

Jereth

[Phil Weickhardt (Phool)]

(I wanted to avoid the Weickhardt echo but it has started. I had not read Steve's post on this thread when I posted on Tim's "Economics, Energy, Environment and Evangelism")

Jereth, there was always a group called "EMU", like "EFAC" it was Evangelical Members within the Uniting Church. It is good to see that they have teamed up with the Reformed group and we have the Confessing Congregations.

In Esperance WA a Uniting Church Pastor led his congregation to separate from the Assembly (they were against the promotion of homosexuality) and they formed "The Church Under the Gumtree".

If you ever want a case study on church splits - Esperance (unfortunately) has had quite a few in a small town of 11 000 people. It happens when people get serious about doctrinal details (eg. complementarian and egalitarian). Despite this they have had a christian bookshop and radio station for years (now two christian radio stations with Vision Radio on a satellite feed). "We can't worship together but we can work together". Kalgoorlie, 30 000 people, has recently opened a christian bookshop (they come and go, four in 16 years, with long periods of none) and broadcasts Christian radio from a satellite feed (Vision Radio, Brisbane).

Will the Bible Society's "Jesus, All About Life" campaign be run in Melbourne? http://www.jesusallaboutlife.com.au/Home.aspx
The budget in Western Australia (ecumencial) was $500 000 for media, it is now $300 000 as they were not getting anything near the target. It is not getting any support from churches controlled by liberal theology  

It will promote awareness but Christians still need to talk to people that are non-believers and give reason for the hope they have.

Phil

[Andrew Stagg]

This story still has legs...
http://www.theage.com.au/national/uniting-church-rebukes-macnab-20081010-4ydx.html

It seems Francis has been a naughty boy and he has been asked to take down his posters and apologise. Apparently his comments are offensive to Jews and Muslims. I'm still not sure if offended Christians count though!!

The Victorian Uniting Church voted at its recent synod to ask St Michael's to remove the freeway signs and to apologise for any offence they caused, especially to Jews and Muslims. The synod expressed concern at the potential damage to interfaith relationships.

Even sillier, now it's Francis turn to be upset, and (according to the article) he is making noises that his own church has 'libeled' him

he said Mr Kioa's criticisms of him were unacceptable, and could be considered defamatory.] [Francis Macnab, minister of St Michael's Uniting Church in Collins Street, says in reply that he was defamed by church moderator Jason Kioa, who said Dr Macnab had discarded much of what had been accepted as Christian belief for 2000 years.

How do you go about slandering your entire religion, and then sulk when someone has the nerve to mildly challenge you on it. Ho Hum, this guy is now my front runner for goose of the year award.

[Tim Patrick]

Hi all,

I was in the city yesterday and noticed this.

  http://www.scotschurch.com/ten-commandments.htm

How great!

Tim