Mixer board and Karaoke

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Bill Wharrie

Mixer board and Karaoke

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The Mixer Board and Karaoke options in the View menu are currently not  
documented in the Manual.

Will these options be enabled in 2.0?

-- Bill

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James Crook

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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Good question!

I think the 1st December deadline has changed the dynamic from when
Vaughan first added them to mainstream Audacity.

My take would be that if Vaughan writes the pages for them in the manual
then we enable them, but if not we don't.  Vaughan?

--James.



Bill Wharrie wrote:
> The Mixer Board and Karaoke options in the View menu are currently not  
> documented in the Manual.
>
> Will these options be enabled in 2.0?
>
> -- Bill


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Bill Wharrie

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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On 7-Nov-09, at 5:37 AM, James Crook wrote:

> Good question!
>
> I think the 1st December deadline has changed the dynamic from when
> Vaughan first added them to mainstream Audacity.
>
> My take would be that if Vaughan writes the pages for them in the  
> manual
> then we enable them, but if not we don't.  Vaughan?
>
> --James.
>

I wasn't asking someone else to document them, but if Vaughan is  
willing to do that all the better. I just didn't want to spend time  
documenting them if they were going to be disabled.

-- Bill

>
>
> Bill Wharrie wrote:
>> The Mixer Board and Karaoke options in the View menu are currently  
>> not
>> documented in the Manual.
>>
>> Will these options be enabled in 2.0?
>>
>> -- Bill
>


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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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Bill Wharrie wrote:
> The Mixer Board and Karaoke options in the View menu are currently not  
> documented in the Manual.
>
> Will these options be enabled in 2.0?
Yes. I'll write up some docs on them.

- Vaughan


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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>
>
> Bill Wharrie wrote:
>> The Mixer Board and Karaoke options in the View menu are currently
>> not  documented in the Manual.
>>
>> Will these options be enabled in 2.0?
> Yes. I'll write up some docs on them.
>
Done, at http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=View_Menu. Feel
free to pretty up the images, etc.

- V

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Martyn Shaw-2

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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Hi Vaughan

Forgive me for not trying 'Karaoke' before, I was waiting for the
instructions (or some other excuse!).

The bit about "create a label for each syllable, and end each with a
hyphen ("-"), except the last syllable" is not working for me.  I put
in the labels and in the Karaoke window I get
'Au- da- c- i- t- y', spaces between the syllables, and expected the
hyphen to get removed.  Is that by design?

TTFN
Martyn

Vaughan Johnson wrote:

>
> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Bill Wharrie wrote:
>>> The Mixer Board and Karaoke options in the View menu are currently
>>> not  documented in the Manual.
>>>
>>> Will these options be enabled in 2.0?
>> Yes. I'll write up some docs on them.
>>
> Done, at http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=View_Menu. Feel
> free to pretty up the images, etc.
>
> - V
>
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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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If the preceding label doesn't end in a hyphen, each new label gets a "
" prepended. But yes, sometimes you'll see space between the hyphen and
the next syllable.

I thought people might be confused about that, so I wrote the extra in
the manual about there still being space between syllables depending on
how far apart they are on the timeline, and how you have the window
(re)sized. Was that not clear or just too buried? Maybe it's best to
just not document the hyphens?

Adding the spaces is necessary in some timeline/resize situations, to
prevent labels not having any space between them.

- V


Martyn Shaw wrote:

> Hi Vaughan
>
> Forgive me for not trying 'Karaoke' before, I was waiting for the
> instructions (or some other excuse!).
>
> The bit about "create a label for each syllable, and end each with a
> hyphen ("-"), except the last syllable" is not working for me.  I put
> in the labels and in the Karaoke window I get
> 'Au- da- c- i- t- y', spaces between the syllables, and expected the
> hyphen to get removed.  Is that by design?
>
> TTFN
> Martyn
>
> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>  
>> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>>    
>>> Bill Wharrie wrote:
>>>      
>>>> The Mixer Board and Karaoke options in the View menu are currently
>>>> not  documented in the Manual.
>>>>
>>>> Will these options be enabled in 2.0?
>>>>        
>>> Yes. I'll write up some docs on them.
>>>
>>>      
>> Done, at http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=View_Menu. Feel
>> free to pretty up the images, etc.
>>
>> - V
>>
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>>
>>    
>
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>  

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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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Martyn Shaw wrote:
> Forgive me for not trying 'Karaoke' before, I was waiting for the
> instructions (or some other excuse!).
> ...

PS: Believe me, I don't use it often, and never for any reason but testing!

No disrespect to karaoke fans.

- V

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Bill Wharrie

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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On 12-Nov-09, at 8:23 PM, Vaughan Johnson wrote:

> Martyn Shaw wrote:
>> Forgive me for not trying 'Karaoke' before, I was waiting for the
>> instructions (or some other excuse!).
>> ...
>
> PS: Believe me, I don't use it often, and never for any reason but  
> testing!
>
> No disrespect to karaoke fans.
>
You'd have to be a hard-core Karaoke fan to use it (again, no  
disrespect to Vaughan or anyone else who worked on this). It would  
take forever to annotate every syllable of a song in just the right  
place so the bouncing ball would fall at just the right moment to sing  
the words! I've tried it (annotating the lyrics, that is, not singing).

-- Bill

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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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Bill Wharrie wrote:

> On 12-Nov-09, at 8:23 PM, Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>
>  
>> Martyn Shaw wrote:
>>    
>>> Forgive me for not trying 'Karaoke' before, I was waiting for the
>>> instructions (or some other excuse!).
>>> ...
>>>      
>> PS: Believe me, I don't use it often, and never for any reason but  
>> testing!
>>
>> No disrespect to karaoke fans.
>>
>>    
> You'd have to be a hard-core Karaoke fan to use it (again, no  
> disrespect to Vaughan or anyone else who worked on this). It would  
> take forever to annotate every syllable of a song in just the right  
> place so the bouncing ball would fall at just the right moment to sing  
> the words! I've tried it (annotating the lyrics, that is, not singing).
>
>  
True, this was a feature sponsored by a client (http://umixit.com/) who
got the rights to big-name artist multi-tracks, and were selling the
editable versions, so they'd put in all the labels, and expected to sell
many copies. Hard work of the few to benefit of the many. They didn't
even have the transcription toolbar to slow down playback as they added
labels. Sadly, their business is on the ropes, as you can see by the
website.

But there are still some of their products out there, on enhanced CD's,
such as the Bare Naked Ladies album that has the "Angry People" song
shown in the images, and several others.

There are karaoke-midi parsers that could generate label text files to
be imported into Audacity without all that manual labor. And true
die-hard karaoke fans may be willing to do the manual labor. We'll see.

- Vaughan


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Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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| From Vaughan Johnson <[hidden email]>
| Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:21:53 -0800
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Mixer board and Karaoke

> If the preceding label doesn't end in a hyphen, each new label gets a "
> " prepended. But yes, sometimes you'll see space between the hyphen and
> the next syllable.
>
> I thought people might be confused about that, so I wrote the extra in
> the manual about there still being space between syllables depending on
> how far apart they are on the timeline, and how you have the window
> (re)sized. Was that not clear or just too buried? Maybe it's best to
> just not document the hyphens?
>
> Adding the spaces is necessary in some timeline/resize situations, to
> prevent labels not having any space between them.

I'm fine with documenting it and it's clear to me as you wrote it, but
is it working optimally? I set up this contrived (but not unreasonable?)
situation:
http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/karaoke.png 

As you can see there appears to be more space between syllables than
words. That doesn't essentially change if I reduce the width of the
karaoke window to 200 px. The "notes" are circa 750ms long, so
definitely not an up-tempo piece.      

Depending on later feedback, maybe you could have a control in the
window to strip hyphens out of the display or not? I also would kind
of expect hyphens not to appear.

I'd be quite keen on saying in the Manual something like "to save all
that manual labour, it's possible to find karaoke-midi parsers that
could generate label text files for import into Audacity". But I guess
we don't want to give links, or to be asked where to get them?    

 

Gale


> Martyn Shaw wrote:
> > Hi Vaughan
> >
> > Forgive me for not trying 'Karaoke' before, I was waiting for the
> > instructions (or some other excuse!).
> >
> > The bit about "create a label for each syllable, and end each with a
> > hyphen ("-"), except the last syllable" is not working for me.  I put
> > in the labels and in the Karaoke window I get
> > 'Au- da- c- i- t- y', spaces between the syllables, and expected the
> > hyphen to get removed.  Is that by design?
> >
> > TTFN
> > Martyn
> >
> > Vaughan Johnson wrote:
> >  
> >> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
> >>    
> >>> Bill Wharrie wrote:
> >>>      
> >>>> The Mixer Board and Karaoke options in the View menu are currently
> >>>> not  documented in the Manual.
> >>>>
> >>>> Will these options be enabled in 2.0?
> >>>>        
> >>> Yes. I'll write up some docs on them.
> >>>
> >>>      
> >> Done, at http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=View_Menu. Feel
> >> free to pretty up the images, etc.
> >>
> >> - V
> >>
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> >>
> >>    
> >
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> >
> >  
>
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Martyn Shaw-2

Re: Mixer board and Karaoke

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I see various feedback about 'Karaoke' (and I'm not even sure how to
spell it, let alone do it!).

I see it as a really useful 'language learning' feature, where people
could listen to some speech and see the words at the same time.  It
certainly deserves to be in 2.0 so that we can get some feedback.

I think that it does need some work re spacing of words/syllables (I
don't like the large space at the left and the large gaps after
hyphens you can get), resizing the window (the font can go very small
when you vertically resize the window, as a large amount of the box is
reserved for the 'bouncing ball') and spacebar doesn't start 'play'
when the focus is on the window.  But it's usable.

I know that it is one of those things that should be a 'module', and I
know Vaughan agrees, but that is for post 2.0.

TTFN
Martyn

Vaughan Johnson wrote:

> If the preceding label doesn't end in a hyphen, each new label gets a "
> " prepended. But yes, sometimes you'll see space between the hyphen and
> the next syllable.
>
> I thought people might be confused about that, so I wrote the extra in
> the manual about there still being space between syllables depending on
> how far apart they are on the timeline, and how you have the window
> (re)sized. Was that not clear or just too buried? Maybe it's best to
> just not document the hyphens?
>
> Adding the spaces is necessary in some timeline/resize situations, to
> prevent labels not having any space between them.
>
> - V
>
>
> Martyn Shaw wrote:
>> Hi Vaughan
>>
>> Forgive me for not trying 'Karaoke' before, I was waiting for the
>> instructions (or some other excuse!).
>>
>> The bit about "create a label for each syllable, and end each with a
>> hyphen ("-"), except the last syllable" is not working for me.  I put
>> in the labels and in the Karaoke window I get
>> 'Au- da- c- i- t- y', spaces between the syllables, and expected the
>> hyphen to get removed.  Is that by design?
>>
>> TTFN
>> Martyn
>>
>> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>>  
>>> Vaughan Johnson wrote:
>>>    
>>>> Bill Wharrie wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>> The Mixer Board and Karaoke options in the View menu are currently
>>>>> not  documented in the Manual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will these options be enabled in 2.0?
>>>>>        
>>>> Yes. I'll write up some docs on them.
>>>>
>>>>      
>>> Done, at http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=View_Menu.
>>> Feel free to pretty up the images, etc.
>>>
>>> - V
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
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>>> [hidden email]
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>>>
>>>    
>>
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>>
>>  
>

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