MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order
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zspitzer
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I have posted a new RFC
http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Walt Welton-Lair
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"Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes."
I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. Walt ________________________________________ From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM To: MapGuide Internals Mail List Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order I have posted a new RFC http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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zspitzer
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At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road network out into
multiple layers which is rather ugly. Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the intersections where this problem occurs. Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? z On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: > "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes." > > I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. > > Walt > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > I have posted a new RFC > > http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Flipper
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In reply to this post
by zspitzer
Would this include labeling and collision detection...IE local roads dont cause highways and interstates not to label...that frustrates me more than intersection overlaps by far...i Would strongly recomend this be included in the RFC as well..I cant imagine anyone diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisagre
-----Original Message----- From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:36 PM To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road network out into multiple layers which is rather ugly. Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the intersections where this problem occurs. Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? z On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: > "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes." > > I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. > > Walt > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > I have posted a new RFC > > http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Flipper
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In reply to this post
by zspitzer
LOL stuck key on Windows Mobile phone...last word was disagreeing....
-----Original Message----- From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:36 PM To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road network out into multiple layers which is rather ugly. Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the intersections where this problem occurs. Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? z On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: > "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes." > > I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. > > Walt > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > I have posted a new RFC > > http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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zspitzer
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Scott can you log a bug and attach a simple MGP which demonstrates this issue?
z On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:53 PM, [hidden email]<[hidden email]> wrote: > LOL stuck key on Windows Mobile phone...last word was disagreeing.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:36 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles > using Style Order > > At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road network out into > multiple layers which is rather ugly. > > Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the > intersections where this > problem occurs. > > Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? > > z > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt > Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes." >> >> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. >> >> Walt >> ________________________________________ >> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >> >> I have posted a new RFC >> >> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Walt Welton-Lair
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In reply to this post
by zspitzer
"Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?"
Handles what? The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to the feature. With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles we make M FDO queries. With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the more queries you make. How to implement your RFC? option 1 - Make a pass over the features for each rule. - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule for that pass. - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a few themes option 2 - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by stylization. - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features for each rule. => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources containing large numbers of features => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for some maps) option 3 - Allocate one image per rule. - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. - Merge all images at the end. => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything more than a few themes option 4 ??? ________________________________________ From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM To: MapGuide Internals Mail List Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road network out into multiple layers which is rather ugly. Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the intersections where this problem occurs. Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? z On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: > "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes." > > I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. > > Walt > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > I have posted a new RFC > > http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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zspitzer
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what if features could be selected with an order by clause?
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: > "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" > Handles what? > > The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to the feature. > > With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles we make M FDO queries. > > With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the more queries you make. > > How to implement your RFC? > > option 1 > - Make a pass over the features for each rule. > - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule for that pass. > - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. > => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a few themes > > option 2 > - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by stylization. > - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. > - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features for each rule. > => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources containing large numbers of features > => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for some maps) > > option 3 > - Allocate one image per rule. > - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. > - Merge all images at the end. > => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything more than a few themes > > option 4 > ??? > > > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road network out into > multiple layers which is rather ugly. > > Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the > intersections where this > problem occurs. > > Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? > > z > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt > Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes." >> >> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. >> >> Walt >> ________________________________________ >> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >> >> I have posted a new RFC >> >> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Flipper
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In reply to this post
by zspitzer
I can make a screen shot of any map of centerlines Ive ever made seems the longer roads segments are vs a hwy that the local roads label trumps the hwy no matter how far down I put he themes rule
-----Original Message----- From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:59 PM To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> Cc: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order Scott can you log a bug and attach a simple MGP which demonstrates this issue? z On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:53 PM, [hidden email]<[hidden email]> wrote: > LOL stuck key on Windows Mobile phone...last word was disagreeing.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:36 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles > using Style Order > > At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road network out into > multiple layers which is rather ugly. > > Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the > intersections where this > problem occurs. > > Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? > > z > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt > Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes." >> >> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. >> >> Walt >> ________________________________________ >> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >> >> I have posted a new RFC >> >> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Flipper
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In reply to this post
by zspitzer
Im out of the office until Monday...Do it then
-----Original Message----- From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:59 PM To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> Cc: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order Scott can you log a bug and attach a simple MGP which demonstrates this issue? z On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:53 PM, [hidden email]<[hidden email]> wrote: > LOL stuck key on Windows Mobile phone...last word was disagreeing.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:36 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles > using Style Order > > At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road network out into > multiple layers which is rather ugly. > > Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the > intersections where this > problem occurs. > > Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? > > z > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt > Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes." >> >> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. >> >> Walt >> ________________________________________ >> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >> >> I have posted a new RFC >> >> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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zspitzer
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In reply to this post
by Flipper
have you tried with the 2.1 beta? there are a heap of labelling improvements
http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/search?q=labels&noquickjump=1&ticket=on z On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 1:20 PM, [hidden email]<[hidden email]> wrote: > I can make a screen shot of any map of centerlines Ive ever made seems the longer roads segments are vs a hwy that the local roads label trumps the hwy no matter how far down I put he themes rule > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:59 PM > To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> > Cc: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles > using Style Order > > Scott can you log a bug and attach a simple MGP which demonstrates this issue? > > z > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:53 PM, > [hidden email]<[hidden email]> wrote: >> LOL stuck key on Windows Mobile phone...last word was disagreeing.... >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:36 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> >> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles >> using Style Order >> >> At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road network out into >> multiple layers which is rather ugly. >> >> Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the >> intersections where this >> problem occurs. >> >> Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? >> >> z >> >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt >> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render layer styles in ordered passes." >>> >>> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use case - say around 10 rules. >>> >>> Walt >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >>> >>> I have posted a new RFC >>> >>> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >>> >>> -- >>> Zac Spitzer - >>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>> +61 405 847 168 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Paul Spencer-2
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In reply to this post
by Walt Welton-Lair
How would someone achieve the desired effect now? From what I
understand (and I am not a power user of mapguide by any standard of measurement), you would need to create several layer definitions each with a filter and theme those layers for each road class? how would performance for: - for each rule, construct an FDO query filtered by the rule's condition - render all features using the rule's style differ from having separate layers? Yours confusedly ;) Paul On 25-Jun-09, at 11:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair wrote: > "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" > Handles what? > > The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the > compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the > filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are > specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to > the feature. > > With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for > each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles > we make M FDO queries. > > With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's > features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the > more queries you make. > > How to implement your RFC? > > option 1 > - Make a pass over the features for each rule. > - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule > for that pass. > - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. > => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a > few themes > > option 2 > - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) > all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by > stylization. > - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. > - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features > for each rule. > => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources > containing large numbers of features > => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping > feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that > rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for > some maps) > > option 3 > - Allocate one image per rule. > - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature > into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. > - Merge all images at the end. > => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything > more than a few themes > > option 4 > ??? > > > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer > Styles using Style Order > > At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road > network out into > multiple layers which is rather ugly. > > Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the > intersections where this > problem occurs. > > Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? > > z > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt > Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render >> layer styles in ordered passes." >> >> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to >> actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use >> case - say around 10 rules. >> >> Walt >> ________________________________________ >> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >> Styles using Style Order >> >> I have posted a new RFC >> >> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals __________________________________________ Paul Spencer Chief Technology Officer DM Solutions Group Inc http://research.dmsolutions.ca/ _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Walt Welton-Lair
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They either split things up into multiple layers, as you say, or they use the rendering pass behavior in the enhanced stylization (currently no UI for the latter, so that complicates that one). Both will have similar performance impact as what's proposed in the RFC - both end up making the same number of FDO queries. And if you read ticket 618 referenced by the RFC, the number of queries is a concern.
I would love to see MapGuide be able to support this behavior. But without a good / novel approach for doing this the performance impact will be atrocious. There are customers who have themed layers with 100's of rules, and changing the default stylization behavior to have draw order match rule order will not work for those maps performance-wise. I think at minimum the RFC will need to be updated to make this behavior optional (default is off). And that means a layer definition schema change. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Spencer Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:18 AM To: MapGuide Internals Mail List Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order How would someone achieve the desired effect now? From what I understand (and I am not a power user of mapguide by any standard of measurement), you would need to create several layer definitions each with a filter and theme those layers for each road class? how would performance for: - for each rule, construct an FDO query filtered by the rule's condition - render all features using the rule's style differ from having separate layers? Yours confusedly ;) Paul On 25-Jun-09, at 11:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair wrote: > "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" > Handles what? > > The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the > compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the > filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are > specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to > the feature. > > With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for > each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles > we make M FDO queries. > > With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's > features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the > more queries you make. > > How to implement your RFC? > > option 1 > - Make a pass over the features for each rule. > - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule > for that pass. > - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. > => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a > few themes > > option 2 > - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) > all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by > stylization. > - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. > - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features > for each rule. > => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources > containing large numbers of features > => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping > feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that > rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for > some maps) > > option 3 > - Allocate one image per rule. > - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature > into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. > - Merge all images at the end. > => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything > more than a few themes > > option 4 > ??? > > > ________________________________________ > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] > ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer > Styles using Style Order > > At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road > network out into > multiple layers which is rather ugly. > > Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the > intersections where this > problem occurs. > > Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? > > z > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt > Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render >> layer styles in ordered passes." >> >> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to >> actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use >> case - say around 10 rules. >> >> Walt >> ________________________________________ >> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >> Styles using Style Order >> >> I have posted a new RFC >> >> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals __________________________________________ Paul Spencer Chief Technology Officer DM Solutions Group Inc http://research.dmsolutions.ca/ _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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zspitzer
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I have updated the RFC and added a FDO RFC for Ordering support
http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc40 z On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Walt Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: > They either split things up into multiple layers, as you say, or they use the rendering pass behavior in the enhanced stylization (currently no UI for the latter, so that complicates that one). Both will have similar performance impact as what's proposed in the RFC - both end up making the same number of FDO queries. And if you read ticket 618 referenced by the RFC, the number of queries is a concern. > > I would love to see MapGuide be able to support this behavior. But without a good / novel approach for doing this the performance impact will be atrocious. There are customers who have themed layers with 100's of rules, and changing the default stylization behavior to have draw order match rule order will not work for those maps performance-wise. I think at minimum the RFC will need to be updated to make this behavior optional (default is off). And that means a layer definition schema change. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Spencer > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:18 AM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > How would someone achieve the desired effect now? From what I > understand (and I am not a power user of mapguide by any standard of > measurement), you would need to create several layer definitions each > with a filter and theme those layers for each road class? > > how would performance for: > > - for each rule, construct an FDO query filtered by the rule's condition > - render all features using the rule's style > > differ from having separate layers? > > Yours confusedly ;) > > Paul > > > On 25-Jun-09, at 11:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair wrote: > >> "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" >> Handles what? >> >> The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the >> compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the >> filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are >> specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to >> the feature. >> >> With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for >> each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles >> we make M FDO queries. >> >> With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's >> features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the >> more queries you make. >> >> How to implement your RFC? >> >> option 1 >> - Make a pass over the features for each rule. >> - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule >> for that pass. >> - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. >> => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a >> few themes >> >> option 2 >> - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) >> all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by >> stylization. >> - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. >> - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features >> for each rule. >> => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources >> containing large numbers of features >> => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping >> feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that >> rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for >> some maps) >> >> option 3 >> - Allocate one image per rule. >> - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature >> into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. >> - Merge all images at the end. >> => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything >> more than a few themes >> >> option 4 >> ??? >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >> Styles using Style Order >> >> At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road >> network out into >> multiple layers which is rather ugly. >> >> Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the >> intersections where this >> problem occurs. >> >> Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? >> >> z >> >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt >> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render >>> layer styles in ordered passes." >>> >>> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to >>> actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use >>> case - say around 10 rules. >>> >>> Walt >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>> Styles using Style Order >>> >>> I have posted a new RFC >>> >>> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >>> >>> -- >>> Zac Spitzer - >>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>> +61 405 847 168 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > > > __________________________________________ > > Paul Spencer > Chief Technology Officer > DM Solutions Group Inc > http://research.dmsolutions.ca/ > > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Tom Fukushima
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Hi Zac,
Please also update the following statement in the RFC: "The only work around currently is to break road networks into separate layers." to read as... There are three possible known work arounds: 1) Break the road networks into separate layers. 2) Render the roads using composite type styles and specify the RenderingPass appropriately (see RFC 29 for details). 3) Set up the data source so that it returns readers with the features in the correct draw order. For #3, Walt gave a description of this in one of his emails. I have extracted it for you here for your reference... Implement a utility which creates a data set optimized for a theme: * the utility will read the layer definition containing the themes * it will query the original data set once using each rule's filter, and write those features to a new data set (it needs to be a format which returns features in the order they were written) * update your layer to use the new data set - the features will come in with the right order Also, we're not sure which, if any, data source #3 will work with. But if it does work, it will be the most efficient one. So perhaps, we should leave out #3 above until someone tries it out and verifies that it works. Thanks Tom -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:02 PM To: MapGuide Internals Mail List Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order I have updated the RFC and added a FDO RFC for Ordering support http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc40 z On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Walt Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: > They either split things up into multiple layers, as you say, or they use the rendering pass behavior in the enhanced stylization (currently no UI for the latter, so that complicates that one). Both will have similar performance impact as what's proposed in the RFC - both end up making the same number of FDO queries. And if you read ticket 618 referenced by the RFC, the number of queries is a concern. > > I would love to see MapGuide be able to support this behavior. But without a good / novel approach for doing this the performance impact will be atrocious. There are customers who have themed layers with 100's of rules, and changing the default stylization behavior to have draw order match rule order will not work for those maps performance-wise. I think at minimum the RFC will need to be updated to make this behavior optional (default is off). And that means a layer definition schema change. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Spencer > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:18 AM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > How would someone achieve the desired effect now? From what I > understand (and I am not a power user of mapguide by any standard of > measurement), you would need to create several layer definitions each > with a filter and theme those layers for each road class? > > how would performance for: > > - for each rule, construct an FDO query filtered by the rule's condition > - render all features using the rule's style > > differ from having separate layers? > > Yours confusedly ;) > > Paul > > > On 25-Jun-09, at 11:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair wrote: > >> "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" >> Handles what? >> >> The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the >> compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the >> filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are >> specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to >> the feature. >> >> With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for >> each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles >> we make M FDO queries. >> >> With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's >> features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the >> more queries you make. >> >> How to implement your RFC? >> >> option 1 >> - Make a pass over the features for each rule. >> - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule >> for that pass. >> - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. >> => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a >> few themes >> >> option 2 >> - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) >> all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by >> stylization. >> - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. >> - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features >> for each rule. >> => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources >> containing large numbers of features >> => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping >> feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that >> rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for >> some maps) >> >> option 3 >> - Allocate one image per rule. >> - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature >> into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. >> - Merge all images at the end. >> => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything >> more than a few themes >> >> option 4 >> ??? >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >> Styles using Style Order >> >> At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road >> network out into >> multiple layers which is rather ugly. >> >> Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the >> intersections where this >> problem occurs. >> >> Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? >> >> z >> >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt >> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render >>> layer styles in ordered passes." >>> >>> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to >>> actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use >>> case - say around 10 rules. >>> >>> Walt >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>> Styles using Style Order >>> >>> I have posted a new RFC >>> >>> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >>> >>> -- >>> Zac Spitzer - >>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>> +61 405 847 168 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > > > __________________________________________ > > Paul Spencer > Chief Technology Officer > DM Solutions Group Inc > http://research.dmsolutions.ca/ > > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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zspitzer
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On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Tom Fukushima<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Zac, > > Please also update the following statement in the RFC: "The only work around currently is to break road networks into separate layers." to read as... > > There are three possible known work arounds: > 1) Break the road networks into separate layers. > 2) Render the roads using composite type styles and specify the RenderingPass appropriately (see RFC 29 for details). > 3) Set up the data source so that it returns readers with the features in the correct draw order. ok, I added three workarounds in. > For #3, Walt gave a description of this in one of his emails. I have extracted it for you here for your reference... > Implement a utility which creates a data set optimized for a theme: > * the utility will read the layer definition containing the themes > * it will query the original data set once using each rule's filter, and write those features to a new data set (it needs to be a format which returns features in the order they were written) this can be done pretty easily in php or c# via the mg api. going this approach, massaging the data would also most likely end up elimating any complex expression filters, > * update your layer to use the new data set - the features will come in with the right order > > Also, we're not sure which, if any, data source #3 will work with. But if it does work, it will be the most efficient one. So perhaps, we should leave out #3 above until someone tries it out and verifies that it works. do you the potential datasource problem is that they don't perform ordering? SDF does via http://fdo.osgeo.org/files/fdo/docs/SDF/_i_extended_select_8h-source.html http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc26 pretty much all database servers do natively? > > Thanks > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:02 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > I have updated the RFC and added a FDO RFC for Ordering support > > http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 > http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc40 > > z > > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Walt > Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >> They either split things up into multiple layers, as you say, or they use the rendering pass behavior in the enhanced stylization (currently no UI for the latter, so that complicates that one). Both will have similar performance impact as what's proposed in the RFC - both end up making the same number of FDO queries. And if you read ticket 618 referenced by the RFC, the number of queries is a concern. >> >> I would love to see MapGuide be able to support this behavior. But without a good / novel approach for doing this the performance impact will be atrocious. There are customers who have themed layers with 100's of rules, and changing the default stylization behavior to have draw order match rule order will not work for those maps performance-wise. I think at minimum the RFC will need to be updated to make this behavior optional (default is off). And that means a layer definition schema change. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Spencer >> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:18 AM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >> >> How would someone achieve the desired effect now? From what I >> understand (and I am not a power user of mapguide by any standard of >> measurement), you would need to create several layer definitions each >> with a filter and theme those layers for each road class? >> >> how would performance for: >> >> - for each rule, construct an FDO query filtered by the rule's condition >> - render all features using the rule's style >> >> differ from having separate layers? >> >> Yours confusedly ;) >> >> Paul >> >> >> On 25-Jun-09, at 11:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair wrote: >> >>> "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" >>> Handles what? >>> >>> The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the >>> compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the >>> filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are >>> specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to >>> the feature. >>> >>> With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for >>> each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles >>> we make M FDO queries. >>> >>> With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's >>> features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the >>> more queries you make. >>> >>> How to implement your RFC? >>> >>> option 1 >>> - Make a pass over the features for each rule. >>> - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule >>> for that pass. >>> - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. >>> => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a >>> few themes >>> >>> option 2 >>> - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) >>> all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by >>> stylization. >>> - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. >>> - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features >>> for each rule. >>> => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources >>> containing large numbers of features >>> => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping >>> feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that >>> rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for >>> some maps) >>> >>> option 3 >>> - Allocate one image per rule. >>> - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature >>> into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. >>> - Merge all images at the end. >>> => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything >>> more than a few themes >>> >>> option 4 >>> ??? >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM >>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>> Styles using Style Order >>> >>> At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road >>> network out into >>> multiple layers which is rather ugly. >>> >>> Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the >>> intersections where this >>> problem occurs. >>> >>> Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? >>> >>> z >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt >>> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render >>>> layer styles in ordered passes." >>>> >>>> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to >>>> actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use >>>> case - say around 10 rules. >>>> >>>> Walt >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >>>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>>> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>>> Styles using Style Order >>>> >>>> I have posted a new RFC >>>> >>>> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Zac Spitzer - >>>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>>> +61 405 847 168 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Zac Spitzer - >>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>> +61 405 847 168 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> >> >> __________________________________________ >> >> Paul Spencer >> Chief Technology Officer >> DM Solutions Group Inc >> http://research.dmsolutions.ca/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Walt Welton-Lair
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Keep in mind that the filters used by a theme can be very broad:
* they can be expressions involving multiple attributes * they can use any functions supported by FDO's expression engine * the rules may be against one attribute but with out-of-order ranges: rule 1: all cities with population < 1000 rule 2: all cities with population >= 100000 rule 3: all cities with population >= 1000 and < 100000 In each of these cases the provider ordering support cannot give you the draw order behavior you want. The ordering support only works for a subset of themes; you would have to analyze the theme to see if it's "compatible" with the provider ordering support, and if it isn't fall back to some other algorithm to give you the draw order behavior you want. I'm becoming more and more fond of the data massaging workaround: * it handles all possible filters * it only has to be done once as a preprocessing step (assuming your data is static) * you will get top performance when rendering the data since only one rendering pass is needed -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:01 PM To: MapGuide Internals Mail List Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Tom Fukushima<[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Zac, > > Please also update the following statement in the RFC: "The only work around currently is to break road networks into separate layers." to read as... > > There are three possible known work arounds: > 1) Break the road networks into separate layers. > 2) Render the roads using composite type styles and specify the RenderingPass appropriately (see RFC 29 for details). > 3) Set up the data source so that it returns readers with the features in the correct draw order. ok, I added three workarounds in. > For #3, Walt gave a description of this in one of his emails. I have extracted it for you here for your reference... > Implement a utility which creates a data set optimized for a theme: > * the utility will read the layer definition containing the themes > * it will query the original data set once using each rule's filter, and write those features to a new data set (it needs to be a format which returns features in the order they were written) this can be done pretty easily in php or c# via the mg api. going this approach, massaging the data would also most likely end up elimating any complex expression filters, > * update your layer to use the new data set - the features will come in with the right order > > Also, we're not sure which, if any, data source #3 will work with. But if it does work, it will be the most efficient one. So perhaps, we should leave out #3 above until someone tries it out and verifies that it works. do you the potential datasource problem is that they don't perform ordering? SDF does via http://fdo.osgeo.org/files/fdo/docs/SDF/_i_extended_select_8h-source.html http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc26 pretty much all database servers do natively? > > Thanks > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:02 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > I have updated the RFC and added a FDO RFC for Ordering support > > http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 > http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc40 > > z > > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Walt > Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >> They either split things up into multiple layers, as you say, or they use the rendering pass behavior in the enhanced stylization (currently no UI for the latter, so that complicates that one). Both will have similar performance impact as what's proposed in the RFC - both end up making the same number of FDO queries. And if you read ticket 618 referenced by the RFC, the number of queries is a concern. >> >> I would love to see MapGuide be able to support this behavior. But without a good / novel approach for doing this the performance impact will be atrocious. There are customers who have themed layers with 100's of rules, and changing the default stylization behavior to have draw order match rule order will not work for those maps performance-wise. I think at minimum the RFC will need to be updated to make this behavior optional (default is off). And that means a layer definition schema change. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Spencer >> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:18 AM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >> >> How would someone achieve the desired effect now? From what I >> understand (and I am not a power user of mapguide by any standard of >> measurement), you would need to create several layer definitions each >> with a filter and theme those layers for each road class? >> >> how would performance for: >> >> - for each rule, construct an FDO query filtered by the rule's condition >> - render all features using the rule's style >> >> differ from having separate layers? >> >> Yours confusedly ;) >> >> Paul >> >> >> On 25-Jun-09, at 11:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair wrote: >> >>> "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" >>> Handles what? >>> >>> The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the >>> compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the >>> filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are >>> specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to >>> the feature. >>> >>> With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for >>> each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles >>> we make M FDO queries. >>> >>> With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's >>> features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the >>> more queries you make. >>> >>> How to implement your RFC? >>> >>> option 1 >>> - Make a pass over the features for each rule. >>> - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule >>> for that pass. >>> - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. >>> => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a >>> few themes >>> >>> option 2 >>> - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) >>> all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by >>> stylization. >>> - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. >>> - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features >>> for each rule. >>> => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources >>> containing large numbers of features >>> => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping >>> feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that >>> rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for >>> some maps) >>> >>> option 3 >>> - Allocate one image per rule. >>> - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature >>> into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. >>> - Merge all images at the end. >>> => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything >>> more than a few themes >>> >>> option 4 >>> ??? >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM >>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>> Styles using Style Order >>> >>> At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road >>> network out into >>> multiple layers which is rather ugly. >>> >>> Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the >>> intersections where this >>> problem occurs. >>> >>> Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? >>> >>> z >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt >>> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render >>>> layer styles in ordered passes." >>>> >>>> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to >>>> actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use >>>> case - say around 10 rules. >>>> >>>> Walt >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >>>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>>> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>>> Styles using Style Order >>>> >>>> I have posted a new RFC >>>> >>>> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Zac Spitzer - >>>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>>> +61 405 847 168 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Zac Spitzer - >>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>> +61 405 847 168 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> >> >> __________________________________________ >> >> Paul Spencer >> Chief Technology Officer >> DM Solutions Group Inc >> http://research.dmsolutions.ca/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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Jason Birch
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In reply to this post
by zspitzer
Maybe this kind of scenario is a good argument for a configurable data caching layer (using sqlite of course!) in MapGuide.
----- Original Message ----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> Sent: Tue Jul 07 20:31:47 2009 Subject: RE: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order Keep in mind that the filters used by a theme can be very broad: * they can be expressions involving multiple attributes * they can use any functions supported by FDO's expression engine * the rules may be against one attribute but with out-of-order ranges: rule 1: all cities with population < 1000 rule 2: all cities with population >= 100000 rule 3: all cities with population >= 1000 and < 100000 In each of these cases the provider ordering support cannot give you the draw order behavior you want. The ordering support only works for a subset of themes; you would have to analyze the theme to see if it's "compatible" with the provider ordering support, and if it isn't fall back to some other algorithm to give you the draw order behavior you want. I'm becoming more and more fond of the data massaging workaround: * it handles all possible filters * it only has to be done once as a preprocessing step (assuming your data is static) * you will get top performance when rendering the data since only one rendering pass is needed -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:01 PM To: MapGuide Internals Mail List Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Tom Fukushima<[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Zac, > > Please also update the following statement in the RFC: "The only work around currently is to break road networks into separate layers." to read as... > > There are three possible known work arounds: > 1) Break the road networks into separate layers. > 2) Render the roads using composite type styles and specify the RenderingPass appropriately (see RFC 29 for details). > 3) Set up the data source so that it returns readers with the features in the correct draw order. ok, I added three workarounds in. > For #3, Walt gave a description of this in one of his emails. I have extracted it for you here for your reference... > Implement a utility which creates a data set optimized for a theme: > * the utility will read the layer definition containing the themes > * it will query the original data set once using each rule's filter, and write those features to a new data set (it needs to be a format which returns features in the order they were written) this can be done pretty easily in php or c# via the mg api. going this approach, massaging the data would also most likely end up elimating any complex expression filters, > * update your layer to use the new data set - the features will come in with the right order > > Also, we're not sure which, if any, data source #3 will work with. But if it does work, it will be the most efficient one. So perhaps, we should leave out #3 above until someone tries it out and verifies that it works. do you the potential datasource problem is that they don't perform ordering? SDF does via http://fdo.osgeo.org/files/fdo/docs/SDF/_i_extended_select_8h-source.html http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc26 pretty much all database servers do natively? > > Thanks > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:02 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > I have updated the RFC and added a FDO RFC for Ordering support > > http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 > http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc40 > > z > > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Walt > Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >> They either split things up into multiple layers, as you say, or they use the rendering pass behavior in the enhanced stylization (currently no UI for the latter, so that complicates that one). Both will have similar performance impact as what's proposed in the RFC - both end up making the same number of FDO queries. And if you read ticket 618 referenced by the RFC, the number of queries is a concern. >> >> I would love to see MapGuide be able to support this behavior. But without a good / novel approach for doing this the performance impact will be atrocious. There are customers who have themed layers with 100's of rules, and changing the default stylization behavior to have draw order match rule order will not work for those maps performance-wise. I think at minimum the RFC will need to be updated to make this behavior optional (default is off). And that means a layer definition schema change. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Spencer >> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:18 AM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >> >> How would someone achieve the desired effect now? From what I >> understand (and I am not a power user of mapguide by any standard of >> measurement), you would need to create several layer definitions each >> with a filter and theme those layers for each road class? >> >> how would performance for: >> >> - for each rule, construct an FDO query filtered by the rule's condition >> - render all features using the rule's style >> >> differ from having separate layers? >> >> Yours confusedly ;) >> >> Paul >> >> >> On 25-Jun-09, at 11:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair wrote: >> >>> "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" >>> Handles what? >>> >>> The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the >>> compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the >>> filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are >>> specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to >>> the feature. >>> >>> With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for >>> each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles >>> we make M FDO queries. >>> >>> With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's >>> features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the >>> more queries you make. >>> >>> How to implement your RFC? >>> >>> option 1 >>> - Make a pass over the features for each rule. >>> - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule >>> for that pass. >>> - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. >>> => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a >>> few themes >>> >>> option 2 >>> - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) >>> all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by >>> stylization. >>> - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. >>> - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features >>> for each rule. >>> => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources >>> containing large numbers of features >>> => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping >>> feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that >>> rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for >>> some maps) >>> >>> option 3 >>> - Allocate one image per rule. >>> - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature >>> into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. >>> - Merge all images at the end. >>> => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything >>> more than a few themes >>> >>> option 4 >>> ??? >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM >>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>> Styles using Style Order >>> >>> At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road >>> network out into >>> multiple layers which is rather ugly. >>> >>> Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the >>> intersections where this >>> problem occurs. >>> >>> Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? >>> >>> z >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt >>> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render >>>> layer styles in ordered passes." >>>> >>>> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to >>>> actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use >>>> case - say around 10 rules. >>>> >>>> Walt >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >>>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>>> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>>> Styles using Style Order >>>> >>>> I have posted a new RFC >>>> >>>> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Zac Spitzer - >>>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>>> +61 405 847 168 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Zac Spitzer - >>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>> +61 405 847 168 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> >> >> __________________________________________ >> >> Paul Spencer >> Chief Technology Officer >> DM Solutions Group Inc >> http://research.dmsolutions.ca/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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zspitzer
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I am all in favour of the massaging approach. It puts the user in control.
Whether the user pre-cooks their data in a db via sql or runs a script which adds a column with a chosen layer key, it ends up being quite flexible. Being able to extract all features matched by a theme in a layer would make such massaging rather straightforward. z On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Jason Birch<[hidden email]> wrote: > Maybe this kind of scenario is a good argument for a configurable data caching layer (using sqlite of course!) in MapGuide. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> > Sent: Tue Jul 07 20:31:47 2009 > Subject: RE: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > Keep in mind that the filters used by a theme can be very broad: > * they can be expressions involving multiple attributes > * they can use any functions supported by FDO's expression engine > * the rules may be against one attribute but with out-of-order ranges: > rule 1: all cities with population < 1000 > rule 2: all cities with population >= 100000 > rule 3: all cities with population >= 1000 and < 100000 > > In each of these cases the provider ordering support cannot give you the draw order behavior you want. The ordering support only works for a subset of themes; you would have to analyze the theme to see if it's "compatible" with the provider ordering support, and if it isn't fall back to some other algorithm to give you the draw order behavior you want. > > I'm becoming more and more fond of the data massaging workaround: > * it handles all possible filters > * it only has to be done once as a preprocessing step (assuming your data is static) > * you will get top performance when rendering the data since only one rendering pass is needed > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:01 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Tom Fukushima<[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi Zac, >> >> Please also update the following statement in the RFC: "The only work around currently is to break road networks into separate layers." to read as... >> >> There are three possible known work arounds: >> 1) Break the road networks into separate layers. >> 2) Render the roads using composite type styles and specify the RenderingPass appropriately (see RFC 29 for details). >> 3) Set up the data source so that it returns readers with the features in the correct draw order. > > ok, I added three workarounds in. > >> For #3, Walt gave a description of this in one of his emails. I have extracted it for you here for your reference... >> Implement a utility which creates a data set optimized for a theme: >> * the utility will read the layer definition containing the themes >> * it will query the original data set once using each rule's filter, and write those features to a new data set (it needs to be a format which returns features in the order they were written) > > this can be done pretty easily in php or c# via the mg api. going this approach, > massaging the data would also most likely end up elimating any complex > expression filters, > >> * update your layer to use the new data set - the features will come in with the right order >> >> Also, we're not sure which, if any, data source #3 will work with. But if it does work, it will be the most efficient one. So perhaps, we should leave out #3 above until someone tries it out and verifies that it works. > > do you the potential datasource problem is that they don't perform ordering? > > SDF does via http://fdo.osgeo.org/files/fdo/docs/SDF/_i_extended_select_8h-source.html > > http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc26 > > pretty much all database servers do natively? > >> >> Thanks >> Tom >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer >> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:02 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >> >> I have updated the RFC and added a FDO RFC for Ordering support >> >> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >> http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc40 >> >> z >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Walt >> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> They either split things up into multiple layers, as you say, or they use the rendering pass behavior in the enhanced stylization (currently no UI for the latter, so that complicates that one). Both will have similar performance impact as what's proposed in the RFC - both end up making the same number of FDO queries. And if you read ticket 618 referenced by the RFC, the number of queries is a concern. >>> >>> I would love to see MapGuide be able to support this behavior. But without a good / novel approach for doing this the performance impact will be atrocious. There are customers who have themed layers with 100's of rules, and changing the default stylization behavior to have draw order match rule order will not work for those maps performance-wise. I think at minimum the RFC will need to be updated to make this behavior optional (default is off). And that means a layer definition schema change. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Spencer >>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:18 AM >>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >>> >>> How would someone achieve the desired effect now? From what I >>> understand (and I am not a power user of mapguide by any standard of >>> measurement), you would need to create several layer definitions each >>> with a filter and theme those layers for each road class? >>> >>> how would performance for: >>> >>> - for each rule, construct an FDO query filtered by the rule's condition >>> - render all features using the rule's style >>> >>> differ from having separate layers? >>> >>> Yours confusedly ;) >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> On 25-Jun-09, at 11:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair wrote: >>> >>>> "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" >>>> Handles what? >>>> >>>> The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the >>>> compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the >>>> filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are >>>> specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to >>>> the feature. >>>> >>>> With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for >>>> each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles >>>> we make M FDO queries. >>>> >>>> With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's >>>> features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the >>>> more queries you make. >>>> >>>> How to implement your RFC? >>>> >>>> option 1 >>>> - Make a pass over the features for each rule. >>>> - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule >>>> for that pass. >>>> - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. >>>> => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a >>>> few themes >>>> >>>> option 2 >>>> - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) >>>> all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by >>>> stylization. >>>> - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. >>>> - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features >>>> for each rule. >>>> => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources >>>> containing large numbers of features >>>> => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping >>>> feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that >>>> rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for >>>> some maps) >>>> >>>> option 3 >>>> - Allocate one image per rule. >>>> - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature >>>> into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. >>>> - Merge all images at the end. >>>> => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything >>>> more than a few themes >>>> >>>> option 4 >>>> ??? >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM >>>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>>> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>>> Styles using Style Order >>>> >>>> At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road >>>> network out into >>>> multiple layers which is rather ugly. >>>> >>>> Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the >>>> intersections where this >>>> problem occurs. >>>> >>>> Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? >>>> >>>> z >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt >>>> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render >>>>> layer styles in ordered passes." >>>>> >>>>> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to >>>>> actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use >>>>> case - say around 10 rules. >>>>> >>>>> Walt >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>>>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >>>>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>>>> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>>>> Styles using Style Order >>>>> >>>>> I have posted a new RFC >>>>> >>>>> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Zac Spitzer - >>>>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>>>> +61 405 847 168 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Zac Spitzer - >>>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>>> +61 405 847 168 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________ >>> >>> Paul Spencer >>> Chief Technology Officer >>> DM Solutions Group Inc >>> http://research.dmsolutions.ca/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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In reply to this post
by zspitzer
-----Original Message----- From: Zac Spitzer <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:49 PM To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order I am all in favour of the massaging approach. It puts the user in control. Whether the user pre-cooks their data in a db via sql or runs a script which adds a column with a chosen layer key, it ends up being quite flexible. Being able to extract all features matched by a theme in a layer would make such massaging rather straightforward. z On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Jason Birch<[hidden email]> wrote: > Maybe this kind of scenario is a good argument for a configurable data caching layer (using sqlite of course!) in MapGuide. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List <[hidden email]> > Sent: Tue Jul 07 20:31:47 2009 > Subject: RE: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > Keep in mind that the filters used by a theme can be very broad: > * they can be expressions involving multiple attributes > * they can use any functions supported by FDO's expression engine > * the rules may be against one attribute but with out-of-order ranges: > rule 1: all cities with population < 1000 > rule 2: all cities with population >= 100000 > rule 3: all cities with population >= 1000 and < 100000 > > In each of these cases the provider ordering support cannot give you the draw order behavior you want. The ordering support only works for a subset of themes; you would have to analyze the theme to see if it's "compatible" with the provider ordering support, and if it isn't fall back to some other algorithm to give you the draw order behavior you want. > > I'm becoming more and more fond of the data massaging workaround: > * it handles all possible filters > * it only has to be done once as a preprocessing step (assuming your data is static) > * you will get top performance when rendering the data since only one rendering pass is needed > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:01 PM > To: MapGuide Internals Mail List > Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Tom Fukushima<[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi Zac, >> >> Please also update the following statement in the RFC: "The only work around currently is to break road networks into separate layers." to read as... >> >> There are three possible known work arounds: >> 1) Break the road networks into separate layers. >> 2) Render the roads using composite type styles and specify the RenderingPass appropriately (see RFC 29 for details). >> 3) Set up the data source so that it returns readers with the features in the correct draw order. > > ok, I added three workarounds in. > >> For #3, Walt gave a description of this in one of his emails. I have extracted it for you here for your reference... >> Implement a utility which creates a data set optimized for a theme: >> * the utility will read the layer definition containing the themes >> * it will query the original data set once using each rule's filter, and write those features to a new data set (it needs to be a format which returns features in the order they were written) > > this can be done pretty easily in php or c# via the mg api. going this approach, > massaging the data would also most likely end up elimating any complex > expression filters, > >> * update your layer to use the new data set - the features will come in with the right order >> >> Also, we're not sure which, if any, data source #3 will work with. But if it does work, it will be the most efficient one. So perhaps, we should leave out #3 above until someone tries it out and verifies that it works. > > do you the potential datasource problem is that they don't perform ordering? > > SDF does via http://fdo.osgeo.org/files/fdo/docs/SDF/_i_extended_select_8h-source.html > > http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc26 > > pretty much all database servers do natively? > >> >> Thanks >> Tom >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer >> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:02 PM >> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >> >> I have updated the RFC and added a FDO RFC for Ordering support >> >> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >> http://trac.osgeo.org/fdo/wiki/FDORfc40 >> >> z >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Walt >> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> They either split things up into multiple layers, as you say, or they use the rendering pass behavior in the enhanced stylization (currently no UI for the latter, so that complicates that one). Both will have similar performance impact as what's proposed in the RFC - both end up making the same number of FDO queries. And if you read ticket 618 referenced by the RFC, the number of queries is a concern. >>> >>> I would love to see MapGuide be able to support this behavior. But without a good / novel approach for doing this the performance impact will be atrocious. There are customers who have themed layers with 100's of rules, and changing the default stylization behavior to have draw order match rule order will not work for those maps performance-wise. I think at minimum the RFC will need to be updated to make this behavior optional (default is off). And that means a layer definition schema change. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Spencer >>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:18 AM >>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer Styles using Style Order >>> >>> How would someone achieve the desired effect now? From what I >>> understand (and I am not a power user of mapguide by any standard of >>> measurement), you would need to create several layer definitions each >>> with a filter and theme those layers for each road class? >>> >>> how would performance for: >>> >>> - for each rule, construct an FDO query filtered by the rule's condition >>> - render all features using the rule's style >>> >>> differ from having separate layers? >>> >>> Yours confusedly ;) >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> On 25-Jun-09, at 11:06 PM, Walt Welton-Lair wrote: >>> >>>> "Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this?" >>>> Handles what? >>>> >>>> The current code iterates once over the features (ignore the >>>> compound line style example). For every feature it evaluates the >>>> filters defined by the rules (in the order that the rules are >>>> specified). Once it finds a matching rule it applies its style to >>>> the feature. >>>> >>>> With compound line styles we make a pass over all the features for >>>> each line style. So for a compound line style containing M styles >>>> we make M FDO queries. >>>> >>>> With rendering passes (RFC 29) we also iterate over all the layer's >>>> features for each rendering pass. The more passes you define the >>>> more queries you make. >>>> >>>> How to implement your RFC? >>>> >>>> option 1 >>>> - Make a pass over the features for each rule. >>>> - During each pass only render the features that satisfy the rule >>>> for that pass. >>>> - If there are M rules you will make M FDO queries. >>>> => performance (speed) will be unacceptable for anything more than a >>>> few themes >>>> >>>> option 2 >>>> - Make one query against all the features, remembering (in memory?) >>>> all the feature information (attributes / geometry) needed by >>>> stylization. >>>> - During the initial pass render the features for the first rule. >>>> - Iterate over the remaining rules in order, rendering the features >>>> for each rule. >>>> => performance (memory use) will be unacceptable for data sources >>>> containing large numbers of features >>>> => this approach goes against the MG architecture of not keeping >>>> feature data in memory during stylization (we already break that >>>> rule with labels which is what leads to high memory usage spikes for >>>> some maps) >>>> >>>> option 3 >>>> - Allocate one image per rule. >>>> - Make one query against all the features, and render each feature >>>> into the image corresponding to the rule it satisifes. >>>> - Merge all images at the end. >>>> => performance (speed + memory) will be unacceptable for anything >>>> more than a few themes >>>> >>>> option 4 >>>> ??? >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:36 PM >>>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>>> Subject: Re: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>>> Styles using Style Order >>>> >>>> At the moment the only way to achieve this is to split the road >>>> network out into >>>> multiple layers which is rather ugly. >>>> >>>> Taking a road network as the example here, it's only at the >>>> intersections where this >>>> problem occurs. >>>> >>>> Can some elaborate on how the server currently handles this? >>>> >>>> z >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Walt >>>> Welton-Lair<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> "Proposed solution: Add support to the rendering engine to render >>>>> layer styles in ordered passes." >>>>> >>>>> I'd like to see some concrete suggestions in the RFC on how to >>>>> actually do this efficiently. Just consider a conservative use >>>>> case - say around 10 rules. >>>>> >>>>> Walt >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email] >>>>> ] On Behalf Of Zac Spitzer [[hidden email]] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:29 PM >>>>> To: MapGuide Internals Mail List >>>>> Subject: [mapguide-internals] MapGuide RFC 69 - Rendering Layer >>>>> Styles using Style Order >>>>> >>>>> I have posted a new RFC >>>>> >>>>> http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide/wiki/MapGuideRfc69 >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Zac Spitzer - >>>>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>>>> +61 405 847 168 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Zac Spitzer - >>>> http://zacster.blogspot.com >>>> +61 405 847 168 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________ >>> >>> Paul Spencer >>> Chief Technology Officer >>> DM Solutions Group Inc >>> http://research.dmsolutions.ca/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mapguide-internals mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Zac Spitzer - >> http://zacster.blogspot.com >> +61 405 847 168 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> _______________________________________________ >> mapguide-internals mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com > +61 405 847 168 > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > > _______________________________________________ > mapguide-internals mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals > > -- Zac Spitzer - http://zacster.blogspot.com +61 405 847 168 _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals _______________________________________________ mapguide-internals mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-internals |
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