Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

13 messages

Israel Saeta Pérez () Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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Hello list,

We're planning a manual about the z3 component architecture to explain Interfaces, Adapters, Utilities, Browser Views, etc.

Kamon Ayeva and I have already started a discussion about what to include in the manual and how to structure its contents, and I'd love everybody interested to share his/her thoughts on that.

Associated ticket: https://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/9020

Please reply to this mailing list for easier discussion. =)

-- israel

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Israel Saeta Pérez

Hanno Schlichting-3 () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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Hi.

Israel Saeta Pérez wrote:
> We're planning a manual about the z3 component architecture to explain
> Interfaces, Adapters, Utilities, Browser Views, etc.

How does this relate the wealth of documentation available for Zope itself?

Like for example Baiju's ZopeGuide
(http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopeGuide) and the "Comprehensive Guide to
Zope Component Architecture" (http://www.muthukadan.net/docs/zca.html)

The Zope documentation efforts are a lot less structured, but it is
possible to engage with them and especially Baiju is probably most
interested in collaborating.

Hanno

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Kamon Ayeva-3 () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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Hi Hanno,

My first feeling was that we should contribute to updating the Zope documentation first (or in parallele).
And I want to contribute.
The way I see it is that Plone doc should link to the core "Zope 3" doc being available on docs.zope.org, but we could have a manual on plone.org which introduces Z3 techniques in the context of Plone and makes a façade to Zope 3 docs.

Let's find a way to make this work !

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Hanno Schlichting <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi.

Israel Saeta Pérez wrote:
> We're planning a manual about the z3 component architecture to explain
> Interfaces, Adapters, Utilities, Browser Views, etc.

How does this relate the wealth of documentation available for Zope itself?

Like for example Baiju's ZopeGuide
(http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopeGuide) and the "Comprehensive Guide to
Zope Component Architecture" (http://www.muthukadan.net/docs/zca.html)

The Zope documentation efforts are a lot less structured, but it is
possible to engage with them and especially Baiju is probably most
interested in collaborating.

Cheers,
Kamon

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are
powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and
easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development
software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging.
Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com
_______________________________________________
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Israel Saeta Pérez () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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In reply to this post by Hanno Schlichting-3

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote:

Hi.

Israel Saeta Pérez wrote:
> We're planning a manual about the z3 component architecture to explain
> Interfaces, Adapters, Utilities, Browser Views, etc.

How does this relate the wealth of documentation available for Zope itself?

Like for example Baiju's ZopeGuide
(http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopeGuide) and the "Comprehensive Guide to
Zope Component Architecture" (http://www.muthukadan.net/docs/zca.html)

The Zope documentation efforts are a lot less structured, but it is
possible to engage with them and especially Baiju is probably most
interested in collaborating.

You're right we should avoid duplicating what's already documented for Zope. I guess our intention here is trying to provide a soft introduction to the ZCA focusing on what's specifically relevant to Plone, and link Zope docs and doctest for further information. Something similar to chaper 9 of PPD.

So I fully agree with Kamon. :-)

Thanks Hanno for your contribution!

-- israel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are
powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and
easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development
software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging.
Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com
_______________________________________________
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Israel Saeta Pérez

Hanno Schlichting-3 () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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Kamon Ayeva-3 () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Hanno Schlichting <[hidden email]> wrote:

Israel Saeta Pérez wrote:
> You're right we should avoid duplicating what's already documented for
> Zope. I guess our intention here is trying to provide a soft
> introduction to the ZCA focusing on what's specifically relevant to
> Plone, and link Zope docs and doctest for further information. Something
> similar to chaper 9 of PPD.

Right, if the audience of the manual is more focused on Plone /
integrator types that makes sense to have. Just don't try to cover it
all, as there's stuff out there ;)

Yeah, we're lucky for that.
Thanks.

-- Kamon

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are
powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and
easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development
software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging.
Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com
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Dylan Jay-4 () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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In reply to this post by Kamon Ayeva-3

On 22/03/2009, at 11:40 PM, Kamon Ayeva wrote:

> Hi Hanno,
>
> My first feeling was that we should contribute to updating the Zope
> documentation first (or in parallele).
> And I want to contribute.
> The way I see it is that Plone doc should link to the core "Zope 3"
> doc being available on docs.zope.org, but we could have a manual on
> plone.org which introduces Z3 techniques in the context of Plone and
> makes a façade to Zope 3 docs.
>
> Let's find a way to make this work !

Linking is better than rewriting, but content aggregation would be
even better. Automatically take the bits we need from the zope3 docs
and embed the content into the plone.org (with attribution of course).
The reasons I personally think this is good
- someone types in "component architecture plone" "browser view
plone" etc, we really want them to find our manual first
- someone clicks from plone.org to zope.org they might end up
reading more than is relevant or even applicable and end up being
confused.

Content aggregation is more effort but I think the end result would be
worth it. I also don't think its as hard as it looks.

Let's find a way to make this work!

>
>
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Hanno Schlichting <[hidden email]
> > wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Israel Saeta Pérez wrote:
> > We're planning a manual about the z3 component architecture to
> explain
> > Interfaces, Adapters, Utilities, Browser Views, etc.
>
> How does this relate the wealth of documentation available for Zope
> itself?
>
> Like for example Baiju's ZopeGuide
> (http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopeGuide) and the "Comprehensive Guide to
> Zope Component Architecture" (http://www.muthukadan.net/docs/zca.html)
>
> The Zope documentation efforts are a lot less structured, but it is
> possible to engage with them and especially Baiju is probably most
> interested in collaborating.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Kamon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM)
> are
> powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly
> and
> easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based
> development
> software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging.
> Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com_______________________________________________
> Plone-docs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-docs

Martin Aspeli () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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In reply to this post by Israel Saeta Pérez

Israel Saeta Pérez wrote:

> You're right we should avoid duplicating what's already documented for
> Zope. I guess our intention here is trying to provide a soft
> introduction to the ZCA focusing on what's specifically relevant to
> Plone, and link Zope docs and doctest for further information. Something
> similar to chaper 9 of PPD.

Mmmm.... You could just suggest people buy the book. ;)

Seriously, though - I think it'd be better to create something
different, rather than try to replicate what's in PPD, only without the
copyright.

My suggestion would be to focus on practical applications rather than go
into detail of theory. Chapter 9 of my book is pretty heavy going, and
only really helps those who've already got some taste of how things
work. Look at Brandon Craig Rhodes' "How to use Grok to walk like a
duck" tutorial, for example. It does a great job of building up *why*
things like adapters are useful, and where they may be used. I think a
series of examples built up like that, based on practical Plone use
cases, would add a lot of value.

Martin

--
Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who
want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are
powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and
easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development
software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging.
Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com
_______________________________________________
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Anne Bowtell-3 () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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From an integrators' point of view, I'd be really keen to have a
"lay-person's summary" at the beginning (or end) of each component
section, perhaps also pointing to a particular example within the Plone
core and explaining what it does. I'd be happy to try to contribute
some of these.

Anne

Martin Aspeli wrote:

> Israel Saeta Pérez wrote:
>
>
>> You're right we should avoid duplicating what's already documented for
>> Zope. I guess our intention here is trying to provide a soft
>> introduction to the ZCA focusing on what's specifically relevant to
>> Plone, and link Zope docs and doctest for further information. Something
>> similar to chaper 9 of PPD.
>>
>
> Mmmm.... You could just suggest people buy the book. ;)
>
> Seriously, though - I think it'd be better to create something
> different, rather than try to replicate what's in PPD, only without the
> copyright.
>
> My suggestion would be to focus on practical applications rather than go
> into detail of theory. Chapter 9 of my book is pretty heavy going, and
> only really helps those who've already got some taste of how things
> work. Look at Brandon Craig Rhodes' "How to use Grok to walk like a
> duck" tutorial, for example. It does a great job of building up *why*
> things like adapters are useful, and where they may be used. I think a
> series of examples built up like that, based on practical Plone use
> cases, would add a lot of value.
>
> Martin
>
>

Kamon Ayeva-3 () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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In reply to this post by Martin Aspeli

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Martin Aspeli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Israel Saeta Pérez wrote:

<... />

My suggestion would be to focus on practical applications rather than go
into detail of theory. Chapter 9 of my book is pretty heavy going, and
only really helps those who've already got some taste of how things
work. Look at Brandon Craig Rhodes' "How to use Grok to walk like a
duck" tutorial, for example. It does a great job of building up *why*
things like adapters are useful, and where they may be used. I think a
series of examples built up like that, based on practical Plone use
cases, would add a lot of value.

+1
I agree the value is in there.

-- Kamon

Christopher Warner () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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In reply to this post by Israel Saeta Pérez

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Re: [Plone-docs] Manual about the Zope Component Architecture Is anyone putting together an outline for this somewhere on all the actual topics included or is this just brainstorming as to what exactly should go into the manual?

--
Christopher Warner
Manager, Content Management Systems
New York Media | 75 Varick St, 4th Fl
New York, NY 10013
phone: 212.508.0542
cell: 646.334.6780

On 3/22/09 7:42 AM, "Israel Saeta Pérez" <dukebody@...> wrote:

Hello list,

We're planning a manual about the z3 component architecture to explain Interfaces, Adapters, Utilities, Browser Views, etc.

Kamon Ayeva and I have already started a discussion <https://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/8994#comment:2> about what to include in the manual and how to structure its contents, and I'd love everybody interested to share his/her thoughts on that.

Associated ticket: https://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/9020

Please reply to this mailing list for easier discussion. =)

-- israel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are
powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and
easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development
software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging.
Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com

_______________________________________________
Plone-docs mailing list
Plone-docs@...
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Kamon Ayeva-3 () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

Reply Threaded

Hello,

2009/3/23 Warner, Christopher <[hidden email]>

Is anyone putting together an outline for this somewhere on all the actual topics included or is this just brainstorming as to what exactly should go into the manual?

There is already an outline started. It is online at http://plone.org/documentation/manual/zope-component-architecture-manual
including some content, copied from some existing tutorials/howtos.

A first step could be completing the 'Interfaces & Components' and 'Browser Pages' sections.

-- Kamon

Israel Saeta Pérez () Re: Manual about the Zope Component Architecture

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In reply to this post by Martin Aspeli

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Martin Aspeli wrote:

My suggestion would be to focus on practical applications rather than go
into detail of theory. Chapter 9 of my book is pretty heavy going, and
only really helps those who've already got some taste of how things
work. Look at Brandon Craig Rhodes' "How to use Grok to walk like a
duck" tutorial, for example. It does a great job of building up *why*
things like adapters are useful, and where they may be used. I think a
series of examples built up like that, based on practical Plone use
cases, would add a lot of value.

You're right. Theory about the ZCA is already described thoroughly in the Zope documentation. So practical examples showing the usefulness of the ZCA inside Plone are our best bet.

Thanks for your bit!

-- israel

Israel Saeta Pérez