Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

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John Ansell

Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

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What's wrong with the big three going under?  I'll answer that, the union suffers.  So where do we stop?  Do we bail out Maersk?

Publication : Times Online

Date : 10th December 2008

 

Maersk Line warns shipping industry needs a lifebelt

 

It was the one industry geared for huge volume growth. From China alone, annual double-digit percentage increases in trade had been the norm in the shipping world.

 

But a sudden and sharp slowdown in global trade is hurting the cashflow of container shipping companies. The situation is so critical that a senior executive of Maersk Line said that the accelerating traffic decline could push a big group over the edge next year.

 

Maersk, the world's leading container shipping line, has slashed the rates it charges for transporting containers on its Asia-America routes and last week the Danish company said that it was laying up eight vessels amid worsening market conditions.

 

The eight ships, each with a capacity for 6,500 containers, will remain at anchor, probably in the Far East, until next summer. They are unlikely to represent the last capacity cut for the shipping giant, Michel Deleuran, head of network and product at Maersk, said: “We are certainly seeing a dramatic slowdown. The decline we are seeing in recent weeks is faster and deeper than what most people had expected only a few months ago. If we don't see improvements, we will be laying up more.”

 

The sudden drop in trade volumes on Far Eastern routes is causing havoc. Mr Deleuran told The Times that the failure of a big shipping group cannot be ruled out: “I think that would be realistic, looking at the cost figures and the uneconomic rates.”

 

Maersk has cut its container freight rates from Asia to the American West Coast by nearly a quarter and on Asia to Europe routes industry rates have collapsed to a fifth of what they were a year ago.

 

“If that does not change, one or more of the larger lines could be in financial difficulty next year. Some people could be really challenged by cashflows,” Mr Deleuran said.

 

The sudden drop in traffic from Asian workshops to the consumer markets in Europe and North America has surprised shippers. Further evidence of the decline emerged yesterday when Neptune Orient Lines, the Singaporean company that owns APL, the seventh-biggest container transporter, signalled that volumes had dropped by 12 per cent in November compared with the same four weeks in 2007.

 

Last month, Neptune Orient gave warning that it would cut its workforce by 9 per cent amid the worsening economic outlook.

 

China Merchant Holdings, the country's biggest port operator, said that it would curb its expansion plan because of the weakening shipping market. Fu Yuning, China Merchant's chairman, said that he expected slower throughput at the country's biggest ports in Hong Kong and Shenzhen.

 

The weak shipping market has put the brakes on companies that make containers, used for the avalanche of consumer products made in Chinese factories. On Monday, CIMC issued a warning in response to rumours that it had halted production: “Our company has warned of the risks as slowing demand is now a universal phenomenon due to the economic environment caused by the global financial tsunami.”

 

According to Mr Deleuran, traffic growth in the container market had been at the rate of 10 per cent a year every year, but the growth had suddenly declined and may have reached nil or decline.

 

According to shipping experts at Lloyd's List, the market was anticipating a capacity expansion of 50 per cent over the next three to four years.

 

“There have been a lot of lay-ups, 135 container ships are thought to be idle at the moment,” Janet Porter, of Lloyd's List, said.

 

Mr Deleuran said the question for the market was how much of the capacity under order had found charterers. “There are quite a number of ships under order. We are potentially seeing an over-tonnage situation in 2009.”

 

Maersk Line has a fleet of 470 vessels and in July the company placed an order with Daewoo Shipbuilding, of Korea, for 16 container ships to be delivered between 2010 and 2012.

 


Or how about bailing out the entire shipping industry?

Publication : Free Internet Press

Date : 9th December 2008

 

Abandoned Shipyards

 

Some shipping companies or shipping lenders are even forfeiting advances paid to shipyards of up to 40 percent of a ship's price, either because they are unable to raise the remaining millions or to minimize current losses.

 

Some shipping companies are in luck, however, because they ordered ships from nonexistent shipyards. When the large Asian shipyards were overrun with orders in recent years, and delivery times grew to up to four years, many small shipyards, especially in China, were simply created out of thin air. In many cases, contracts to build new ships were signed with these so-called greenfield shipyards, which existed only on the drawing board. "These shipyards will no longer exist today, nor will the ships," says Offen.

 

Even most of the existing greenfield shipyards will likely disappear quickly today. German shipping industry executives are already reporting on abandoned shipyards in China, where the ships are half-finished and there are no workers in sight.

 

Nevertheless, so many new ships will enter the market next year that worldwide container capacity will grow by about 13 percent. However, container shipping will grow by only 5 percent - that is, unless a global recession forces demand down even further.

 

An increase in load capacity coinciding with a drop in consumption will have disastrous consequences for shipping rates. The Baltic Dry Index (BDI), a standard index for ore and grain shipments, declined from 8,756 points at the beginning of the year to 733 points at the end of November.

Eivind Kolding, the CEO of Maersk, the world's largest shipping line, complains that he now collects all of $600 (€480) per container between the Far East and Europe. The company is suffering enormous losses with each individual container.

 

Neptune Orient Lines, the favored candidate to take over the Hamburg-based shipping line Hapag-Lloyd until this summer, has already announced plans to lay off almost 10 percent of its work force. The first of the smaller shipping companies are already going bankrupt.

 

This explains why shipping companies everywhere are beginning to "lay up" ships, which means parking them for months in a bay somewhere, with skeleton crews on board, instead of continuing to operate the vessels in scheduled service at a loss. Last week the Grand Alliance, one of the largest container shipping company alliances, which includes Hamburg-based Hapag-Lloyd, decided to suspend one of its scheduled services between Asia and the United States, initially for 18 weeks.



Why doesn't the government just pass out one million dollars to each person and be done with it?  

Look, failure is nature's way of rewarding those that are smart enough to avoid failing.  Think about it, the money is going somewhere.  It goes to the Government for them to give to their friends in order for their friends to donate to the Government leaders so they keep getting that packet full of money so they can give it to another politician so that politician can give another packet of money and that packet of money can be used when you're "client #9" or on whatever.

NO means NO, Washington.  Stop raping America.
Alfboggs

Re: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

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 John, I'll ask you the question I posted earlier. What is your solution for the million plus retirees from the auto companies. Give me a sensible answer.
Alfboggs

Re: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

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   Shipping company Problems, Why would any true American want to bail out the shipping companies that really only benefit China? How much do we ship to China? A row-boat load compared to what comes this way. Let China support the shipping companies if they want. We have no business helping the ones who are out to destroy our economy completely.  Bye the way, It won't be long until you will see autos coming from China and what will the foreign companies that are manufacturing in the south now do then? What will happen to their employees? Don't tell me they can compete with China's labor cost.
Alfboggs

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   Isn't it true that some years ago all the textile manufacturing companies left the northern part of this country and went to the southern states? Where are they today?  Where were the auto companies a few years back? Did they move south? Yes, to a degree, Where are almost all of the foreign plants? Where will they be 25 or 30 years from now?Will they be just like the textiles? The old saying: History repeats itself.
John Ansell

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I was being sarcastic.  America is in huge trouble though.  Blame the environmentalist and the Democrats along with the Unions.  All of the hidden taxes are causing companies to ship their goods via the Mexican ports.  This also allows them to skirt around the FMC rules and regulations (more fees) and even sending their companies to Mexico for the cheap labor and no environmental handcuffs.

 


From: Alfboggs (via Nabble) [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:05 AM
To: John Ansell
Subject: Re: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

 

   Shipping company Problems, Why would any true American want to bail out the shipping companies that really only benefit China? How much do we ship to China? A row-boat load compared to what comes this way. Let China support the shipping companies if they want. We have no business helping the ones who are out to destroy our economy completely.  Bye the way, It won't be long until you will see autos coming from China and what will the foreign companies that are manufacturing in the south now do then? What will happen to their employees? Don't tell me they can compete with China's labor cost.


This email is a reply to your post @ http://n2.nabble.com/Is-it-the-Big-3-Bail-out-or-the-UAW-Bailout--tp1649015p1655115.html
You can reply by email or by visting the link above.

 

Alfboggs

RE: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
  Thanks for the reply, I've read some of your other post and we don't disagree as much as you and others might think.


Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:22:11 -0800
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

I was being sarcastic.  America is in huge trouble though.  Blame the environmentalist and the Democrats along with the Unions.  All of the hidden taxes are causing companies to ship their goods via the Mexican ports.  This also allows them to skirt around the FMC rules and regulations (more fees) and even sending their companies to Mexico for the cheap labor and no environmental handcuffs.

 


From: Alfboggs (via Nabble) [mailto:ml-user+132908-1141711274@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:05 AM
To: John Ansell
Subject: Re: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

 

   Shipping company Problems, Why would any true American want to bail out the shipping companies that really only benefit China? How much do we ship to China? A row-boat load compared to what comes this way. Let China support the shipping companies if they want. We have no business helping the ones who are out to destroy our economy completely.  Bye the way, It won't be long until you will see autos coming from China and what will the foreign companies that are manufacturing in the south now do then? What will happen to their employees? Don't tell me they can compete with China's labor cost.


This email is a reply to your post @ http://n2.nabble.com/Is-it-the-Big-3-Bail-out-or-the-UAW-Bailout--tp1649015p1655115.html
You can reply by email or by visting the link above.

 




This email is a reply to your post @ http://n2.nabble.com/Is-it-the-Big-3-Bail-out-or-the-UAW-Bailout--tp1649015p1659083.html
You can reply by email or by visting the link above.

John Ansell

RE: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

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Alfboggs, I for one am against the bailout.  What about the retirees?  The companies made an agreement with the unions and employees so they should be held accountable.  I know under the bankruptcy laws that the Big 3 can get out of the contracts but that’s their problem.  This is not a place where the unions/employees/Big 3 hold no blame.  You see, the Democrats are blaming the Government for this mess.  They should blame the unions/employees/Big 3.  Yes, I put some of that blame on the employees.  They were told that their contracts would break the companies but they were greedy and now it’s coming back to haunt them.

 

In short, the retirees should thank God that I’m not in office because I would turn my back on them.  Kind of like if a guy is sitting there with a hangover and he’s asking me to help.  I’d help by saying “Next time don’t drink that much.”  Now I’m saying to the retirees, next time don’t bargain yourselves out of a job or retirement.  Ask the unions if they can get you another job with another company that is willing to be the victims of a shake down.

 

 

 


From: Alfboggs (via Nabble) [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:50 AM
To: John Ansell
Subject: Re: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

 

 John, I'll ask you the question I posted earlier. What is your solution for the million plus retirees from the auto companies. Give me a sensible answer.


This email is a reply to your post @ http://n2.nabble.com/Is-it-the-Big-3-Bail-out-or-the-UAW-Bailout--tp1649015p1655087.html
You can reply by email or by visting the link above.

 

Alfboggs

RE: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

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John, the retirement was never a contentious issue. What you and most people don't know is that during the vietnam war Gm had to employ thousands becauseof government contracts. They bused they to the plant where I worked. This was the aftermath of the 67 riots. they wouldn't work, wouldn't come to work but 3 or4 days a week. We had app. 5,000 more thn we needed. This led to the downfall in quality and production. Promotions were another problem. Many good people got passed over. Just some of my experences.


Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:35:03 -0800
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

Alfboggs, I for one am against the bailout.  What about the retirees?  The companies made an agreement with the unions and employees so they should be held accountable.  I know under the bankruptcy laws that the Big 3 can get out of the contracts but that’s their problem.  This is not a place where the unions/employees/Big 3 hold no blame.  You see, the Democrats are blaming the Government for this mess.  They should blame the unions/employees/Big 3.  Yes, I put some of that blame on the employees.  They were told that their contracts would break the companies but they were greedy and now it’s coming back to haunt them.

 

In short, the retirees should thank God that I’m not in office because I would turn my back on them.  Kind of like if a guy is sitting there with a hangover and he’s asking me to help.  I’d help by saying “Next time don’t drink that much.”  Now I’m saying to the retirees, next time don’t bargain yourselves out of a job or retirement.  Ask the unions if they can get you another job with another company that is willing to be the victims of a shake down.

 

 

 


From: Alfboggs (via Nabble) [mailto:ml-user+132908-1141711274@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:50 AM
To: John Ansell
Subject: Re: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

 

 John, I'll ask you the question I posted earlier. What is your solution for the million plus retirees from the auto companies. Give me a sensible answer.


This email is a reply to your post @ http://n2.nabble.com/Is-it-the-Big-3-Bail-out-or-the-UAW-Bailout--tp1649015p1655087.html
You can reply by email or by visting the link above.

 




This email is a reply to your post @ http://n2.nabble.com/Is-it-the-Big-3-Bail-out-or-the-UAW-Bailout--tp1649015p1659140.html
You can reply by email or by visting the link above.

John Ansell

RE: Is it the Big 3 Bail out or the UAW Bailout?

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Well that sounds like a mess Alfboggs.  I'm not in a good mood today.  You see, Government intervention is causing me a headache.  Alderman Mark Mahoney is going to get the fult brunt of my frustration.  Most of my family lives in Ward 6 and I can assure you that they have all gotten calls with a request to either run against Mahoney or support his challenger.  He's a Republican.  You see I have a commercial property in Springfield and we signed a 9 year lease with a company that vitually would have paid for the property by the end of the 9 year lease and then on the rent would be extra income.

Friday I received notice that the renter is terminating the 9 year lease agreement just 3 years into it.  Thanks to Mahoney I have a headache when I should not have one.  Moral of the Story:  WHen the Government gets involved, things go ape S.