Hi Canyonlands People.

24 messages

1 2

tropester2003@gmail.com () Hi Canyonlands People.

Reply Threaded

Your majestic moderator was a bit puzzled at why a fellow from the
Atlantic coast would want to join a group focused in the Canyon lands
and so I'm delighted to state my purpose.

I grew weary of the acrimony in the political sphere and decided to
turn to creating something that unites and benefits all people who
want to move beyond the oil era and into the sustainability era.

To this end, I began building http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
.

While a part of it focuses on the particulars of my backyard region,
it has many useful liks that are applicable anywhere.

Members of this group will find value in sites like http://www.roofray.com/,
a handy tool for calculating likely power yields from a solar roof
install.

http://www.dsireusa.org/ is a compendium of state and federal tax
incentives for energy efficiency home improvements in every state.

http://www.slowfoodutah.org/ is a Slow food group in Salt Lake City
and you could have an affiliate in Moab.

I made this for everyone and the links are the core. My scribbles
merely indicate the aspects. So welcome, have a ball looking up stuff
on geothermal heating options or heirloom seed sources. Thank you for
gathering together for a far more fulfilling mission than perpetual
election cycles.

Best, Chris Rich.
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions" group.
To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [hidden email]
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Moab Rocker () Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

Reply Threaded

Welcome Chris! I personally am extremely excited to have another voice join
our CSS group. Tell us your story? How do you know Moab? Please check out
some of our local goings-on - http://www.youthgardenproject.org,
www.dontmesswithmoab.org and a current petition regarding sustainability at
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lionsback . I look forward to meeting
you in person, and please, feel free to add your east coast knowledge &
viewpoint at any time on our blog! Julianne Fitzgerald

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:06 PM
To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
Subject: [CSS] Hi Canyonlands People.

Your majestic moderator was a bit puzzled at why a fellow from the
Atlantic coast would want to join a group focused in the Canyon lands!
and so I'm delighted to state my purpose.

I grew weary of the acrimony in the political sphere and decided to
turn to creating something that unites and benefits all people who
want to move beyond the oil era and into the sustainability era.

To this end, I began building http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
.

While a part of it focuses on the particulars of my backyard region,
it has many useful liks that are applicable anywhere.

Members of this group will find value in sites like http://www.roofray.com/,
a handy tool for calculating likely power yields from a solar roof
install.

http://www.dsireusa.org/ is a compendium of state and federal tax
incentives for energy efficiency home improvements in every state.

http://www.slowfoodutah.org/ is a Slow food group in Salt Lake City
and you could have an affiliate in Moab.

I made this for everyone and the links are the core. My scribbles
merely indicate the aspects. So welcome, have a ball looking up stuff
on geothermal heating options or heirloom seed sources. Thank you for
gathering together for a far more fulfilling mission than perpetual
election cycles.

Best, Chris Rich.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions" group.
To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [hidden email]
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canyonlandssustainable?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Mike Suarez () Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by tropester2003@gmail.com

Boy, you dropped out of politics just in time. With this election literally
being the last chance for the resuscitation of the United States of America
(b. 7/4/1776, d. 12/12/2000), it's only going to get more acrimonious.

No place for the truly pure who are, after all, the only real hope for the
future United $tates of Amerika.

Mike Suarez

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:06 PM
To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
Subject: [CSS] Hi Canyonlands People.

Your majestic moderator was a bit puzzled at why a fellow from the
Atlantic coast would want to join a group focused in the Canyon lands
and so I'm delighted to state my purpose.

I grew weary of the acrimony in the political sphere and decided to
turn to creating something that unites and benefits all people who
want to move beyond the oil era and into the sustainability era.

To this end, I began building http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
.

While a part of it focuses on the particulars of my backyard region,
it has many useful liks that are applicable anywhere.

Members of this group will find value in sites like http://www.roofray.com/,
a handy tool for calculating likely power yields from a solar roof
install.

http://www.dsireusa.org/ is a compendium of state and federal tax
incentives for energy efficiency home improvements in every state.

http://www.slowfoodutah.org/ is a Slow food group in Salt Lake City
and you could have an affiliate in Moab.

I made this for everyone and the links are the core. My scribbles
merely indicate the aspects. So welcome, have a ball looking up stuff
on geothermal heating options or heirloom seed sources. Thank you for
gathering together for a far more fulfilling mission than perpetual
election cycles.

Best, Chris Rich.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions" group.
To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [hidden email]
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canyonlandssustainable?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Mike Suarez () RE: Explanation

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by tropester2003@gmail.com

Perhaps I should explain.

My grandfather fought - and my father died fighting - to preserve this
nation's struggle towards the attainment of the highest ideals that
humankind has articulated, the ideals contained in our Constitution.

This election will decide whether this nation will continue that struggle
or, on the other hand, become completely the province of the most powerful
and greedy people in history.

I know there are those who, for whatever reason, will not participate in
that struggle. I don't understand that, but I can abide it.

What I cannot abide in silence is the heavy implication that refusing to
participate in that struggle is somehow a morally superior stance.

Such an implication is profoundly disrespectful to the millions who have
struggled, in times of peace and war, to provide us with a nation to
sustain.

Talk about acrimony. Talk about fulfillment. Then talk about the men and
women who braved and sometimes endured serious injury or death to give the
vote to women and minorities, to desegregate communities, to create unions
that helped give us the greatest period of equality this nation has known,
not to mention the 40-hour work week, unemployment insurance, and the end of
child labor.

I respect the (to me inexplicable) decision to withdraw from the struggle to
preserve and enhance our pursuit of our Constitutional ideals.

Likewise, I expect respect for those who continue in that struggle and those
who've already served - and perhaps fallen - in that struggle.

Mike Suarez

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:06 PM
To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
Subject: [CSS] Hi Canyonlands People.

Your majestic moderator was a bit puzzled at why a fellow from the
Atlantic coast would want to join a group focused in the Canyon lands
and so I'm delighted to state my purpose.

I grew weary of the acrimony in the political sphere and decided to
turn to creating something that unites and benefits all people who
want to move beyond the oil era and into the sustainability era.

To this end, I began building http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
.

While a part of it focuses on the particulars of my backyard region,
it has many useful liks that are applicable anywhere.

Members of this group will find value in sites like http://www.roofray.com/,
a handy tool for calculating likely power yields from a solar roof
install.

http://www.dsireusa.org/ is a compendium of state and federal tax
incentives for energy efficiency home improvements in every state.

http://www.slowfoodutah.org/ is a Slow food group in Salt Lake City
and you could have an affiliate in Moab.

I made this for everyone and the links are the core. My scribbles
merely indicate the aspects. So welcome, have a ball looking up stuff
on geothermal heating options or heirloom seed sources. Thank you for
gathering together for a far more fulfilling mission than perpetual
election cycles.

Best, Chris Rich.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions" group.
To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [hidden email]
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canyonlandssustainable?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

tropester2003@gmail.com () Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Moab Rocker

Thank you, pardon the sluggish reply. I met Moab through Edward Abbeys
eyes in Desert Solitaire. I am keenly interested in how different
regions find their way to this grand adventure,

And the high plains mountainous west could not be a more perfect
contrast to the mixed oak forest lands of New England.

As a kid, I loved the Whole Earth Catalog. It was an odd bridge
between my conservative father and me. He loved it too. This grand
adventure is here to unite if we have the courage and patience to put
politics on a shelf and hunker down to consider practical problems we
all face as the post oil world and the dislocations it will cause bear
down on us.

I began gardening as a 7 year old when John F Kennedy yet lived. I'm
particularly fond of edible pod snow peas.Legumes pull nitrogen from
the air and their dying remnants give it back to the soil in addition
to the yields and stir fry's. Is that cool or what?

I left you all a welcoming message post at http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
and nothing would please me more than to know you are romping through
the links and cherry picking the stuff that enhances your lives and
hopes without regard to who you plan to vote for.

I returned to New England after 12 years working construction in
Seattle and met many people who do not necessarily share my views but
they were honorable, honest and kindly. They were striving in their
ways and I built bridges to them by listening and sharing my lore
regarding their practical problems. Bridges take more work than walls
but the effort is well repaid. And this grand adventure is loaded with
chances to build those bridges and move past the bickering.

I'll work through your thoughtfully provided links before long and
report back. Thank you for your excitement, This adventure will be
propelled by how people are moved by its prospects.

On Sep 18, 12:02 am, "Julianne" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Welcome Chris! I personally am extremely excited to have another voice join
> our CSS group. Tell us your story? How do you know Moab? Please check out
> some of our local goings-on -http://www.youthgardenproject.org,www.dontmesswithmoab.organd a current petition regarding sustainability athttp://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lionsback. I look forward to meeting
> you in person, and please, feel free to add your east coast knowledge &
> viewpoint at any time on our blog! Julianne Fitzgerald
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
>
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:06 PM
> To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
> Subject: [CSS] Hi Canyonlands People.
>
> Your majestic moderator was a bit puzzled at why a fellow from the
> Atlantic coast would want to join a group focused in the Canyon lands!
> and so I'm delighted to state my purpose.
>
> I grew weary of the acrimony in the political sphere and decided to
> turn to creating something that unites and benefits all people who
> want to move beyond the oil era and into the sustainability era.
>
> To this end, I began buildinghttp://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
> .
>
> While a part of it focuses on the particulars of my backyard region,
> it has many useful liks that are applicable anywhere.
>
> Members of this group will find value in sites likehttp://www.roofray.com/,
> a handy tool for calculating likely power yields from a solar roof
> install.
>
> http://www.dsireusa.org/is a compendium of state and federal tax
> incentives for energy efficiency home improvements in every state.
>
> http://www.slowfoodutah.org/is a Slow food group in Salt Lake City
> and you could have an affiliate in Moab.
>
> I made this for everyone and the links are the core. My scribbles
> merely indicate the aspects. So welcome, have a ball looking up stuff
> on geothermal heating options or heirloom seed sources. Thank you for
> gathering together for a far more fulfilling mission than perpetual
> election cycles.
>
> Best, Chris Rich.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions" group.
To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [hidden email]
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canyonlandssustainable?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Tim D. Peterson () Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by tropester2003@gmail.com

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

HI All,
It looks like this is the working link for "don't mess with Moab:"

http://www.dontmesswithmoab.com/index.html

--
Tim D. Peterson

Broads Healthy Lands Project Director
Great Old Broads for Wilderness
PO Box 2924
649 E. College Dr.
Durango CO 81302
970-385-9577
Fax:970-385-8550
www.greatoldbroads.org
[hidden email]

Founder
Idiom Consulting/Idiom Images
[hidden email]

(801) 550-9861

****************************************************************************

----- Original Message ----
From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:04:18 PM
Subject: [CSS] Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

Thank you, pardon the sluggish reply. I met Moab through Edward Abbeys
eyes in Desert Solitaire. I am keenly interested in how different
regions find their way to this grand adventure,

And the high plains mountainous west could not be a more perfect
contrast to the mixed oak forest lands of New England.

As a kid, I loved the Whole Earth Catalog. It was an odd bridge
between my conservative father and me. He loved it too. This grand
adventure is here to unite if we have the courage and patience to put
politics on a shelf and hunker down to consider practical problems we
all face as the post oil world and the dislocations it will cause bear
down on us.

I began gardening as a 7 year old when John F Kennedy yet lived. I'm
particularly fond of edible pod snow peas.Legumes pull nitrogen from
the air and their dying remnants give it back to the soil in addition
to the yields and stir fry's. Is that cool or what?

I left you all a welcoming message post at http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
and nothing would please me more than to know you are romping through
the links and cherry picking the stuff that enhances your lives and
hopes without regard to who you plan to vote for.

I returned to New England after 12 years working construction in
Seattle and met many people who do not necessarily share my views but
they were honorable, honest and kindly. They were striving in their
ways and I built bridges to them by listening and sharing my lore
regarding their practical problems. Bridges take more work than walls
but the effort is well repaid. And this grand adventure is loaded with
chances to build those bridges and move past the bickering.

I'll work through your thoughtfully provided links before long and
report back. Thank you for your excitement, This adventure will be
propelled by how people are moved by its prospects.

On Sep 18, 12:02 am, "Julianne" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Mike Suarez () Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by tropester2003@gmail.com

I applaud and have practiced your efforts at building bridges, but I cannot
support the condescending use of the word "bickering" in reference to
political differences, nor the implication that courage and patience are
lacking amongst those who struggle in the political arena.

Isn't it inconsistent to speak of "building bridges" while using
condescension and negative implications?

The "bickering" of which you speak brought us the Environmental Protection
Act and stopped the Bush administration from doing away with Social
Security. It lifted a nation out of the Great Depression and gave us the
greatest period of economic equality this country has every known. It also
gave to alternative non-nuclear energy sources the admittedly paltry
subsidies they now enjoy and, depending on the next election, may grant them
substantially more.

Does anyone believe that acrimony was absent from the debates which
culminated in the passage of the Civil Rights Act, which brought the vote to
hundreds of thousands of minorities?

No group of people has ever yet "put politics on the shelf.' Politics are
involved in every human interaction, particularly where groups are
concerned. Those who recognize that fact are one up on those who deny it
because they, who recognize it, live in the real world.

The effort to create small utopian communities is of course not a new one.
It's as old as humanity. I don't criticize it; I'd love to live in such a
world and I agree that adventures in that direction are propelled by how
people are moved by the prospects of its realization.

But such adventures are also facilitated or frustrated by the political
actions of the larger community. The possibility of making a sustainable
community of an area rich in mineral resources is doomed if it fails to take
account of political realities.

Others are certainly entitled to believe otherwise and I respect that
entitlement. I will try to reply, though, to every expression of such
beliefs which includes terms that denigrate the courageous, continuous
efforts of those also working in the political field, trying there to
illuminate the common interests which the vast majority of us share.

The use of such terms builds walls, not bridges.

Mike Suarez

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:04 PM
To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
Subject: [CSS] Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

Thank you, pardon the sluggish reply. I met Moab through Edward Abbeys
eyes in Desert Solitaire. I am keenly interested in how different
regions find their way to this grand adventure,

And the high plains mountainous west could not be a more perfect
contrast to the mixed oak forest lands of New England.

As a kid, I loved the Whole Earth Catalog. It was an odd bridge
between my conservative father and me. He loved it too. This grand
adventure is here to unite if we have the courage and patience to put
politics on a shelf and hunker down to consider practical problems we
all face as the post oil world and the dislocations it will cause bear
down on us.

I began gardening as a 7 year old when John F Kennedy yet lived. I'm
particularly fond of edible pod snow peas.Legumes pull nitrogen from
the air and their dying remnants give it back to the soil in addition
to the yields and stir fry's. Is that cool or what?

I left you all a welcoming message post at
http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
and nothing would please me more than to know you are romping through
the links and cherry picking the stuff that enhances your lives and
hopes without regard to who you plan to vote for.

I returned to New England after 12 years working construction in
Seattle and met many people who do not necessarily share my views but
they were honorable, honest and kindly. They were striving in their
ways and I built bridges to them by listening and sharing my lore
regarding their practical problems. Bridges take more work than walls
but the effort is well repaid. And this grand adventure is loaded with
chances to build those bridges and move past the bickering.

I'll work through your thoughtfully provided links before long and
report back. Thank you for your excitement, This adventure will be
propelled by how people are moved by its prospects.

On Sep 18, 12:02 am, "Julianne" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Welcome Chris! I personally am extremely excited to have another voice
join
> our CSS group. Tell us your story? How do you know Moab? Please check
out
> some of our local goings-on
-http://www.youthgardenproject.org,www.dontmesswithmoab.organd a current
petition regarding sustainability
athttp://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lionsback. I look forward to meeting

> you in person, and please, feel free to add your east coast knowledge &
> viewpoint at any time on our blog! Julianne Fitzgerald
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
>
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:06 PM
> To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
> Subject: [CSS] Hi Canyonlands People.
>
> Your majestic moderator was a bit puzzled at why a fellow from the
> Atlantic coast would want to join a group focused in the Canyon lands!
> and so I'm delighted to state my purpose.
>
> I grew weary of the acrimony in the political sphere and decided to
> turn to creating something that unites and benefits all people who
> want to move beyond the oil era and into the sustainability era.
>
> To this end, I began buildinghttp://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
> .
>
> While a part of it focuses on the particulars of my backyard region,
> it has many useful liks that are applicable anywhere.
>
> Members of this group will find value in sites

likehttp://www.roofray.com/,

> a handy tool for calculating likely power yields from a solar roof
> install.
>
> http://www.dsireusa.org/is a compendium of state and federal tax
> incentives for energy efficiency home improvements in every state.
>
> http://www.slowfoodutah.org/is a Slow food group in Salt Lake City
> and you could have an affiliate in Moab.
>
> I made this for everyone and the links are the core. My scribbles
> merely indicate the aspects. So welcome, have a ball looking up stuff
> on geothermal heating options or heirloom seed sources. Thank you for
> gathering together for a far more fulfilling mission than perpetual
> election cycles.
>
> Best, Chris Rich.

Moab Rocker () Food and water and other stuff

Reply Threaded

Mike, we are fortunate to have your wisdom in our community - I wanted to
pass on a conversation that I had with the Ole' Geezer. I asked about
turkeys for Thanksgiving and he said that the farmer's aren't giving any
guarantee on turkeys this year because of the rising cost of feed. He's not
sure about local availability. He went on to say that he's having a hard
time just getting beef, as the ranchers are stopping raising beef as well.
The price of their feed has increased by 500%, and the prices of beef aren't
keeping up with those costs.

Anybody want to re=visit the Co-op idea, now that we're looking at winter?
JF P.S. Still waiting for someone to step up and take the lead?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Suarez
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:40 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [CSS] Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

I applaud and have practiced your efforts at building bridges, but I cannot
support the condescending use of the word "bickering" in reference to
political differences, nor the implication that courage and patience are
lacking amongst those who struggle in the political arena.

Isn't it inconsistent to speak of "building bridges" while using
condescension and negative implications?

The "bickering" of which you speak brought us the Environmental Protection
Act and stopped the Bush administration from doing away with Social
Security. It lifted a nation out of the Great Depression and gave us the
greatest period of economic equality this country has every known. It also
gave to alternative non-nuclear energy sources the admittedly paltry
subsidies they now enjoy and, depending on the next election, may grant them
substantially more.

Does anyone believe that acrimony was absent from the debates which
culminated in the passage of the Civil Rights Act, which brought the vote to
hundreds of thousands of minorities?

No group of people has ever yet "put politics on the shelf.' Politics are
involved in every human interaction, particularly where groups are
concerned. Those who recognize that fact are one up on those who deny it
because they, who recognize it, live in the real world.

The effort to create small utopian communities is of course not a new one.
It's as old as humanity. I don't criticize it; I'd love to live in such a
world and I agree that adventures in that direction are propelled by how
people are moved by the prospects of its realization.

But such adventures are also facilitated or frustrated by the political
actions of the larger community. The possibility of making a sustainable
community of an area rich in mineral resources is doomed if it fails to take
account of political realities.

Others are certainly entitled to believe otherwise and I respect that
entitlement. I will try to reply, though, to every expression of such
beliefs which includes terms that denigrate the courageous, continuous
efforts of those also working in the political field, trying there to
illuminate the common interests which the vast majority of us share.

The use of such terms builds walls, not bridges.

Mike Suarez

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:04 PM
To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
Subject: [CSS] Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

Thank you, pardon the sluggish reply. I met Moab through Edward Abbeys
eyes in Desert Solitaire. I am keenly interested in how different
regions find their way to this grand adventure,

And the high plains mountainous west could not be a more perfect
contrast to the mixed oak forest lands of New England.

As a kid, I loved the Whole Earth Catalog. It was an odd bridge
between my conservative father and me. He loved it too. This grand
adventure is here to unite if we have the courage and patience to put
politics on a shelf and hunker down to consider practical problems we
all face as the post oil world and the dislocations it will cause bear
down on us.

I began gardening as a 7 year old when John F Kennedy yet lived. I'm
particularly fond of edible pod snow peas.Legumes pull nitrogen from
the air and their dying remnants give it back to the soil in addition
to the yields and stir fry's. Is that cool or what?

I left you all a welcoming message post at
http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
and nothing would please me more than to know you are romping through
the links and cherry picking the stuff that enhances your lives and
hopes without regard to who you plan to vote for.

I returned to New England after 12 years working construction in
Seattle and met many people who do not necessarily share my views but
they were honorable, honest and kindly. They were striving in their
ways and I built bridges to them by listening and sharing my lore
regarding their practical problems. Bridges take more work than walls
but the effort is well repaid. And this grand adventure is loaded with
chances to build those bridges and move past the bickering.

I'll work through your thoughtfully provided links before long and
report back. Thank you for your excitement, This adventure will be
propelled by how people are moved by its prospects.

On Sep 18, 12:02 am, "Julianne" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Welcome Chris! I personally am extremely excited to have another voice
join
> our CSS group. Tell us your story? How do you know Moab? Please check
out
> some of our local goings-on
-http://www.youthgardenproject.org,www.dontmesswithmoab.organd a current
petition regarding sustainability
athttp://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lionsback. I look forward to meeting

likehttp://www.roofray.com/,

Colleen Smith () Re: Food and water and other stuff

Reply Threaded

Julianne, I am very interested. I know this is a very busy time with all that is going on both locally and nationally. I can help somebody out, but can not spearhead it. My Spirit says yeah, my mind says I can do it, budy my poor old body says "Who are you kidding?" I am still recovering from bronchitis.

I do love our community and all of the different opinons. My Daddy said it was always good to stand in somebody els's shoes. So here's to bickering.

Colleen

--- On Sat, 9/20/08, Julianne <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Julianne <[hidden email]>
Subject: [CSS] Food and water and other stuff
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, September 20, 2008, 4:16 PM

Mike, we are fortunate to have your wisdom in our community - I wanted to
pass on a conversation that I had with the Ole' Geezer.  I asked about
turkeys for Thanksgiving and he said that the farmer's aren't giving
any
guarantee on turkeys this year because of the rising cost of feed.  He's
not
sure about local availability. He went on to say that he's having a hard
time just getting beef, as the ranchers are stopping raising beef as well.
The price of their feed has increased by 500%, and the prices of beef
aren't
keeping up with those costs.

Anybody want to re=visit the Co-op idea, now that we're looking at winter?
JF  P.S. Still waiting for someone to step up and take the lead?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Suarez
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:40 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [CSS] Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

I applaud and have practiced your efforts at building bridges, but I cannot
support the condescending use of the word "bickering" in reference to
political differences, nor the implication that courage and patience are
lacking amongst those who struggle in the political arena.

Isn't it inconsistent to speak of "building bridges" while using
condescension and negative implications?

The "bickering" of which you speak brought us the Environmental
Protection 
Act and stopped the Bush administration from doing away with Social
Security.  It lifted a nation out of the Great Depression and gave us the
greatest period of economic equality this country has every known.  It also
gave to alternative non-nuclear energy sources the admittedly paltry
subsidies they now enjoy and, depending on the next election, may grant them
substantially more.

Does anyone believe that acrimony was absent from the debates which
culminated in the passage of the Civil Rights Act, which brought the vote to
hundreds of thousands of minorities?  

No group of people has ever yet "put politics on the shelf.'  Politics
are
involved in every human interaction, particularly where groups are
concerned.  Those who recognize that fact are one up on those who deny it
because they, who recognize it, live in the real world.   

The effort to create small utopian communities is of course not a new one.
It's as old as humanity.  I don't criticize it; I'd love to live in
such a
world and I agree that adventures in that direction are propelled by how
people are moved by the prospects of its realization.

But such adventures are also facilitated or frustrated by the political
actions of the larger community.  The possibility of making a sustainable
community of an area rich in mineral resources is doomed if it fails to take
account of political realities.

Others are certainly entitled to believe otherwise and I respect that
entitlement.  I will try to reply, though, to every expression of such
beliefs which includes terms that denigrate the courageous, continuous
efforts of those also working in the political field, trying there to
illuminate the common interests which the vast majority of us share.

The use of such terms builds walls, not bridges.

Mike Suarez

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:04 PM
To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
Subject: [CSS] Re: Hi Canyonlands People.

Thank you, pardon the sluggish reply. I met Moab through Edward Abbeys
eyes in Desert Solitaire. I am keenly interested in how different
regions find their way to this grand adventure,

And the high plains mountainous west could not be a more perfect
contrast to the mixed oak forest lands of New England.

As a kid, I loved the Whole Earth Catalog. It was an odd bridge
between my conservative father and me. He loved it too. This grand
adventure is here to unite if we have the courage and patience to put
politics on a shelf and hunker down to consider practical problems we
all face as the post oil world and the dislocations it will cause bear
down on us.

I began gardening as a 7 year old when John F Kennedy yet lived. I'm
particularly fond of edible pod snow peas.Legumes pull nitrogen from
the air and their dying remnants give it back to the soil in addition
to the yields and stir fry's. Is that cool or what?

I left you all a welcoming message post at
http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
and nothing would please me more than to know you are romping through
the links and cherry picking the stuff that enhances your lives and
hopes without regard to who you plan to vote for.

I returned to New England after 12 years working construction in
Seattle and met many people who do not necessarily share my views but
they were honorable, honest and kindly. They were striving in their
ways and I built bridges to them by listening and sharing my lore
regarding their practical problems. Bridges take more work than walls
but the effort is well repaid. And this grand adventure is loaded with
chances to build those bridges and move past the bickering.

I'll work through your thoughtfully provided links before long and
report back. Thank you for your excitement, This adventure will be
propelled by how people are moved by its prospects.

On Sep 18, 12:02 am, "Julianne" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Welcome Chris!  I personally am extremely excited to have another voice
join
> our CSS group.  Tell us your story?  How do you know Moab?  Please check
out
> some of our local goings-on
-http://www.youthgardenproject.org,www.dontmesswithmoab.organd a current
petition regarding sustainability
athttp://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lionsback.  I look forward to meeting
> you in person, and please, feel free to add your east coast knowledge
&
> viewpoint at any time on our blog!  Julianne Fitzgerald
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
>
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:06 PM
> To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
> Subject: [CSS] Hi Canyonlands People.
>
> Your majestic moderator was a bit puzzled at why a fellow from the
> Atlantic coast would want to join a group focused in the Canyon lands!
> and so I'm delighted to state my purpose.
>
> I grew weary of the acrimony in the political sphere and decided to
> turn to creating something that unites and benefits all people who
> want to move beyond the oil era and into the sustainability era.
>
> To this end, I began buildinghttp://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
> .
>
> While a part of it focuses on the particulars of my backyard region,
> it has many useful liks that are applicable anywhere.
>
> Members of this group will find value in sites
likehttp://www.roofray.com/,
> a handy tool for calculating likely power yields from a solar roof
> install.
>
> http://www.dsireusa.org/is a compendium of state and federal tax
> incentives for energy efficiency home improvements in every state.
>
> http://www.slowfoodutah.org/is a Slow food group in Salt Lake City
> and you could have an affiliate in Moab.
>
> I made this for everyone and the links are the core. My scribbles
> merely indicate the aspects. So welcome, have a ball looking up stuff
> on geothermal heating options or heirloom seed sources. Thank you for
> gathering together for a far more fulfilling mission than perpetual
> election cycles.
>
> Best, Chris Rich.

Nancy Kurtz () Re: Food and water and other stuff

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Moab Rocker

My question is, how do we support the Geezer. They are a great part of
this community. I'm all for anything that supports what they're doing.
They are our team-mates, and speaking of bridges, they belong on this
list.

Nancy

On Sep 20, 2008, at 4:16 PM, Julianne wrote:

>
> Mike, we are fortunate to have your wisdom in our community - I wanted
> to
> pass on a conversation that I had with the Ole' Geezer. I asked about
> turkeys for Thanksgiving and he said that the farmer's aren't giving
> any
> guarantee on turkeys this year because of the rising cost of feed.
> He's not
> sure about local availability. He went on to say that he's having a
> hard
> time just getting beef, as the ranchers are stopping raising beef as
> well.
> The price of their feed has increased by 500%, and the prices of beef
> aren't
> keeping up with those costs.
>
> Anybody want to re=visit the Co-op idea, now that we're looking at
> winter?
> JF P.S. Still waiting for someone to step up and take the lead?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike
> Suarez
> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:40 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [CSS] Re: Hi Canyonlands People.
>
>
> I applaud and have practiced your efforts at building bridges, but I
> cannot
> support the condescending use of the word "bickering" in reference to
> political differences, nor the implication that courage and patience
> are
> lacking amongst those who struggle in the political arena.
>
> Isn't it inconsistent to speak of "building bridges" while using
> condescension and negative implications?
>
> The "bickering" of which you speak brought us the Environmental
> Protection
> Act and stopped the Bush administration from doing away with Social
> Security. It lifted a nation out of the Great Depression and gave us
> the
> greatest period of economic equality this country has every known. It
> also
> gave to alternative non-nuclear energy sources the admittedly paltry
> subsidies they now enjoy and, depending on the next election, may
> grant them
> substantially more.
>
> Does anyone believe that acrimony was absent from the debates which
> culminated in the passage of the Civil Rights Act, which brought the
> vote to
> hundreds of thousands of minorities?
>
> No group of people has ever yet "put politics on the shelf.' Politics
> are
> involved in every human interaction, particularly where groups are
> concerned. Those who recognize that fact are one up on those who deny
> it
> because they, who recognize it, live in the real world.
>
> The effort to create small utopian communities is of course not a new
> one.
> It's as old as humanity. I don't criticize it; I'd love to live in
> such a
> world and I agree that adventures in that direction are propelled by
> how
> people are moved by the prospects of its realization.
>
> But such adventures are also facilitated or frustrated by the political
> actions of the larger community. The possibility of making a
> sustainable
> community of an area rich in mineral resources is doomed if it fails
> to take
> account of political realities.
>
> Others are certainly entitled to believe otherwise and I respect that
> entitlement. I will try to reply, though, to every expression of such
> beliefs which includes terms that denigrate the courageous, continuous
> efforts of those also working in the political field, trying there to
> illuminate the common interests which the vast majority of us share.
>
> The use of such terms builds walls, not bridges.
>
> Mike Suarez
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:04 PM
> To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
> Subject: [CSS] Re: Hi Canyonlands People.
>
>
> Thank you, pardon the sluggish reply. I met Moab through Edward Abbeys
> eyes in Desert Solitaire. I am keenly interested in how different
> regions find their way to this grand adventure,
>
> And the high plains mountainous west could not be a more perfect
> contrast to the mixed oak forest lands of New England.
>
> As a kid, I loved the Whole Earth Catalog. It was an odd bridge
> between my conservative father and me. He loved it too. This grand
> adventure is here to unite if we have the courage and patience to put
> politics on a shelf and hunker down to consider practical problems we
> all face as the post oil world and the dislocations it will cause bear
> down on us.
>
> I began gardening as a 7 year old when John F Kennedy yet lived. I'm
> particularly fond of edible pod snow peas.Legumes pull nitrogen from
> the air and their dying remnants give it back to the soil in addition
> to the yields and stir fry's. Is that cool or what?
>
> I left you all a welcoming message post at
> http://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
> and nothing would please me more than to know you are romping through
> the links and cherry picking the stuff that enhances your lives and
> hopes without regard to who you plan to vote for.
>
> I returned to New England after 12 years working construction in
> Seattle and met many people who do not necessarily share my views but
> they were honorable, honest and kindly. They were striving in their
> ways and I built bridges to them by listening and sharing my lore
> regarding their practical problems. Bridges take more work than walls
> but the effort is well repaid. And this grand adventure is loaded with
> chances to build those bridges and move past the bickering.
>
> I'll work through your thoughtfully provided links before long and
> report back. Thank you for your excitement, This adventure will be
> propelled by how people are moved by its prospects.
>
> On Sep 18, 12:02 am, "Julianne" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Welcome Chris! I personally am extremely excited to have another
>> voice
> join
>> our CSS group. Tell us your story? How do you know Moab? Please
>> check
> out
>> some of our local goings-on
> -http://www.youthgardenproject.org,www.dontmesswithmoab.organd a
> current
> petition regarding sustainability
> athttp://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lionsback. I look forward to
> meeting
>> you in person, and please, feel free to add your east coast knowledge
>> &
>> viewpoint at any time on our blog! Julianne Fitzgerald
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>>
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> [hidden email]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:06 PM
>> To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
>> Subject: [CSS] Hi Canyonlands People.
>>
>> Your majestic moderator was a bit puzzled at why a fellow from the
>> Atlantic coast would want to join a group focused in the Canyon lands!
>> and so I'm delighted to state my purpose.
>>
>> I grew weary of the acrimony in the political sphere and decided to
>> turn to creating something that unites and benefits all people who
>> want to move beyond the oil era and into the sustainability era.
>>
>> To this end, I began
>> buildinghttp://sustainabilityumbrella.blogspot.com/
>> .
>>
>> While a part of it focuses on the particulars of my backyard region,
>> it has many useful liks that are applicable anywhere.
>>
>> Members of this group will find value in sites
> likehttp://www.roofray.com/,
>> a handy tool for calculating likely power yields from a solar roof
>> install.
>>
>> http://www.dsireusa.org/is a compendium of state and federal tax
>> incentives for energy efficiency home improvements in every state.
>>
>> http://www.slowfoodutah.org/is a Slow food group in Salt Lake City
>> and you could have an affiliate in Moab.
>>
>> I made this for everyone and the links are the core. My scribbles
>> merely indicate the aspects. So welcome, have a ball looking up stuff
>> on geothermal heating options or heirloom seed sources. Thank you for
>> gathering together for a far more fulfilling mission than perpetual
>> election cycles.
>>
>> Best, Chris Rich.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >

Mike Suarez () Re: Food and water and other stuff

Reply Threaded

I just want to thank Julianne for the kind words. I am so grateful that
Mary and I found this community with so many wonderful people in it.

We're interested in the co-op but, like so many, just don't have the time to
take a lead role.

And the Geezer and his crew there are just neat people.

Colleen, hope you're getting better quickly.

Mike S.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Nancy Kurtz
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 7:04 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [CSS] Re: Food and water and other stuff

My question is, how do we support the Geezer. They are a great part of
this community. I'm all for anything that supports what they're doing.
They are our team-mates, and speaking of bridges, they belong on this
list.

Nancy

On Sep 20, 2008, at 4:16 PM, Julianne wrote:

Karen Robinson () Re: Food and water and other stuff

Reply Threaded

The statement below does not make any sense for the cost of producing
beef. Most local public land ranchers pay less than $2.00 per month for a
cow an calf on public land. This is less than the cost of raising two pet
hamsters. Public land ranching is heavily subsidized by your taxes and
mine. Hay has not gone up 500% in the last several years. I do not see
hay advertised for $25.00 to $30.00 per bale. Cows are fed grain before
they are killed. Grain has gone up significantly in price, but this is a
small part cost of raising a cow for slaughter. I question the statement
that the cost of feed has gone up 500%.

Bill Love

>about local availability. He went on to say that he's having a
> > hard
> > time just getting beef, as the ranchers are stopping raising beef as
> > well.
> > The price of their feed has increased by 500%, and the prices of beef
> > aren't
> > keeping up with those costs.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions" group.
To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [hidden email]
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canyonlandssustainable?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Moab Rocker () Re: Food and water and other stuff

Reply Threaded

Perhaps a phone call to the Geezer would explain it, Bill. I'm just
reporting what he said - not evaluating it. It's perfectly obvious that the
cost of food is going to rise exponentially with the rise of fuel. What
else can possibly happen? We need to streamline the availability of food so
that we're using as much locally available as possible. Any conversation to
the contrary is a waste of time & words. We need to move forward as a
community and not split any more hairs. Have people been paying attention
to the economic goings on? Let's get real and stop philosophizing. JF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of William E Love
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:55 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [CSS] Re: Food and water and other stuff

The statement below does not make any sense for the cost of producing
beef. Most local public land ranchers pay less than $2.00 per month for a
cow an calf on public land. This is less than the cost of raising two pet
hamsters. Public land ranching is heavily subsidized by your taxes and
mine. Hay has not gone up 500% in the last several years. I do not see
hay advertised for $25.00 to $30.00 per bale. Cows are fed grain before
they are killed. Grain has gone up significantly in price, but this is a
small part cost of raising a cow for slaughter. I question the statement
that the cost of feed has gone up 500%.

Bill Love

>about local availability. He went on to say that he's having a
> > hard
> > time just getting beef, as the ranchers are stopping raising beef as
> > well.
> > The price of their feed has increased by 500%, and the prices of beef
> > aren't
> > keeping up with those costs.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions" group.
To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [hidden email]
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canyonlandssustainable?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Ron Georg () Re: Food and water and other stuff

Reply Threaded

Howdy, all--

At our house, we're just reaching the bottom of our freezer, which we filled with beef from Sheri Griffith last year. The cow was raised on government welfare, enjoying a cheap lunch on La Sal wildflowers. It was not grain-finished.

The beef is extremely tasty, though it does require some refined cooking techniques. Slap it on a super-hot grill with the goal of a quick, seared steak, and you'll have shoe leather. It requires slow cooking, preferable moist, and it tends to be more appropriate for roasts and stews. The meat reminds us of why so many classic recipes, from pot roast to sauerbraten, use these techniques. After all, grain finishing is a modern technique, so people were, historically, accustomed to a little more chew in their steak. They probably also had better knife-handling skills, as it's important to understand the phrase "off-bias, across the grain" to slice off a bit.

I believe what we need is for more ranchers to put their product in the local pipeline instead of shipping them off for grain finishing. We've got all these cows, and apparently a market is developing for locally produced meat. Maybe someone needs to talk to Colin Fryer and other local ranchers. Colin has been willing to put up plenty of money to process grapes locally, based on his interest in sustainable local economy, maybe he'd built an abattoir (it sounds so much nicer in French) if he thought people would buy the product.

I've got to admit, grazing seems a whole lot less controversial to me when the cattle are my dinner instead of just someone else's profit.

Happy Trails,

Ron Georg

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 10:15 PM, Julianne <[hidden email]> wrote:

Perhaps a phone call to the Geezer would explain it, Bill. I'm just
reporting what he said - not evaluating it. It's perfectly obvious that the
cost of food is going to rise exponentially with the rise of fuel. What
else can possibly happen? We need to streamline the availability of food so
that we're using as much locally available as possible. Any conversation to
the contrary is a waste of time & words. We need to move forward as a
community and not split any more hairs. Have people been paying attention
to the economic goings on? Let's get real and stop philosophizing. JF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]

[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of William E Love
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:55 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [CSS] Re: Food and water and other stuff

The statement below does not make any sense for the cost of producing
beef. Most local public land ranchers pay less than $2.00 per month for a
cow an calf on public land. This is less than the cost of raising two pet
hamsters. Public land ranching is heavily subsidized by your taxes and
mine. Hay has not gone up 500% in the last several years. I do not see
hay advertised for $25.00 to $30.00 per bale. Cows are fed grain before
they are killed. Grain has gone up significantly in price, but this is a
small part cost of raising a cow for slaughter. I question the statement
that the cost of feed has gone up 500%.

Bill Love

>about local availability. He went on to say that he's having a
> > hard
> > time just getting beef, as the ranchers are stopping raising beef as
> > well.
> > The price of their feed has increased by 500%, and the prices of beef
> > aren't
> > keeping up with those costs.

Kara Dohrenwend () Re: Food and water and other stuff

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Moab Rocker

I think Bill's email was meant as a question - and yes some clarification
through a call could clear it all up. However, I do not think it was
philosophizing, but trying to make sure we have the right/true information.
Without true facts we can act and do the completely wrong thing - with the
best of intentions. And it is up to each of us to make sure our facts are
as correct as we know them to be before posting anything on this list. It
is amazing how fast rumor becomes "fact" when it is not.

No finger pointing intended here -- just some thoughts about information
sharing.

THANKS to all for keeping on top of so many topics!

Kara

On 9/20/08 10:15 PM, "Julianne" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Perhaps a phone call to the Geezer would explain it, Bill. I'm just
> reporting what he said - not evaluating it. It's perfectly obvious that the
> cost of food is going to rise exponentially with the rise of fuel. What
> else can possibly happen? We need to streamline the availability of food so
> that we're using as much locally available as possible. Any conversation to
> the contrary is a waste of time & words. We need to move forward as a
> community and not split any more hairs. Have people been paying attention
> to the economic goings on? Let's get real and stop philosophizing. JF
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of William E Love
> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:55 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [CSS] Re: Food and water and other stuff
>
>
> The statement below does not make any sense for the cost of producing
> beef. Most local public land ranchers pay less than $2.00 per month for a
> cow an calf on public land. This is less than the cost of raising two pet
> hamsters. Public land ranching is heavily subsidized by your taxes and
> mine. Hay has not gone up 500% in the last several years. I do not see
> hay advertised for $25.00 to $30.00 per bale. Cows are fed grain before
> they are killed. Grain has gone up significantly in price, but this is a
> small part cost of raising a cow for slaughter. I question the statement
> that the cost of feed has gone up 500%.
>
> Bill Love
>
>
>> about local availability. He went on to say that he's having a
>>> hard
>>> time just getting beef, as the ranchers are stopping raising beef as
>>> well.
>>> The price of their feed has increased by 500%, and the prices of beef
>>> aren't
>>> keeping up with those costs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>

Kara Dohrenwend () Re: Food and water and other stuff

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Ron Georg

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Re: [CSS] Re: Food and water and other stuff It’ll take this to the local UCD board and see what we can do to promote this. There are quite a few local meat producers. I will get back with you all as I learn more!

THANKS!

Kara

On 9/22/08 8:52 AM, "Ron Georg" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Howdy, all--

At our house, we're just reaching the bottom of our freezer, which we filled with beef from Sheri Griffith last year. The cow was raised on government welfare, enjoying a cheap lunch on La Sal wildflowers. It was not grain-finished.

The beef is extremely tasty, though it does require some refined cooking techniques. Slap it on a super-hot grill with the goal of a quick, seared steak, and you'll have shoe leather. It requires slow cooking, preferable moist, and it tends to be more appropriate for roasts and stews. The meat reminds us of why so many classic recipes, from pot roast to sauerbraten, use these techniques. After all, grain finishing is a modern technique, so people were, historically, accustomed to a little more chew in their steak. They probably also had better knife-handling skills, as it's important to understand the phrase "off-bias, across the grain" to slice off a bit.

I believe what we need is for more ranchers to put their product in the local pipeline instead of shipping them off for grain finishing. We've got all these cows, and apparently a market is developing for locally produced meat. Maybe someone needs to talk to Colin Fryer and other local ranchers. Colin has been willing to put up plenty of money to process grapes locally, based on his interest in sustainable local economy, maybe he'd built an abattoir (it sounds so much nicer in French) if he thought people would buy the product.
I've got to admit, grazing seems a whole lot less controversial to me when the cattle are my dinner instead of just someone else's profit.
Happy Trails,
Ron Georg
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 10:15 PM, Julianne <[hidden email]> wrote:

Perhaps a phone call to the Geezer would explain it, Bill. I'm just
reporting what he said - not evaluating it. It's perfectly obvious that the
cost of food is going to rise exponentially with the rise of fuel. What
else can possibly happen? We need to streamline the availability of food so
that we're using as much locally available as possible. Any conversation to
the contrary is a waste of time & words. We need to move forward as a
community and not split any more hairs. Have people been paying attention
to the economic goings on? Let's get real and stop philosophizing. JF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[[hidden email] On Behalf Of William E Love
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:55 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [CSS] Re: Food and water and other stuff

The statement below does not make any sense for the cost of producing
beef. Most local public land ranchers pay less than $2.00 per month for a
cow an calf on public land. This is less than the cost of raising two pet
hamsters. Public land ranching is heavily subsidized by your taxes and
mine. Hay has not gone up 500% in the last several years. I do not see
hay advertised for $25.00 to $30.00 per bale. Cows are fed grain before
they are killed. Grain has gone up significantly in price, but this is a
small part cost of raising a cow for slaughter. I question the statement
that the cost of feed has gone up 500%.

Bill Love

>about local availability. He went on to say that he's having a
> > hard
> > time just getting beef, as the ranchers are stopping raising beef as
> > well.
> > The price of their feed has increased by 500%, and the prices of beef
> > aren't
> > keeping up with those costs.

Mike Suarez () If You Want to Vote

Reply Threaded

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Re: [CSS] Re: Food and water and other stuff

For those who are interested in voting, here’s a link that will tell you whether you’re registered and what district you’re in, as well as where you go to vote.

You can also get a list of all your public officials, with their addresses and phone numbers, and look at a sample ballot.

Mike S.

solarmon () Re: If You Want to Vote

Reply Threaded

hmmmmmmm. .
must be getting old here, cuz I'm not seeing a link. LOL

On Sep 22, 10:06 am, "Mike Suarez" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> For those who are interested in voting, here's a link that will tell you
> whether you're registered and what district you're in, as well as where you
> go to vote.
> You can also get a list of all your public officials, with their addresses
> and phone numbers, and look at a sample ballot.
> Mike S.
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Mike Suarez () Re: If You Want to Vote

Reply Threaded

Uh-oh.

It may not be you that's getting old.

Here's the link: http://www.gva1.utah.gov/elections/polling.aspx

Thanks, solarmon.

Mike S.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of solarmon
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 11:42 AM
To: Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions
Subject: [CSS] Re: If You Want to Vote

hmmmmmmm. .
must be getting old here, cuz I'm not seeing a link. LOL

On Sep 22, 10:06 am, "Mike Suarez" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> For those who are interested in voting, here's a link that will tell you
> whether you're registered and what district you're in, as well as where
you
> go to vote.
> You can also get a list of all your public officials, with their addresses
> and phone numbers, and look at a sample ballot.
> Mike S.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canyonlands Sustainable Solutions" group.
To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [hidden email]
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canyonlandssustainable?hl=en
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Karen Robinson () Re: If You Want to Vote

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by solarmon

Sign into http://elections.utah.gov and scroll down to "Voter
Information Website - Find your polling place and print your sample
ballot". This site also gives lots of other voting information.
Karen

At 11:41 AM 9/22/2008, you wrote:

>hmmmmmmm. .
>must be getting old here, cuz I'm not seeing a link. LOL
>
>On Sep 22, 10:06 am, "Mike Suarez" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > For those who are interested in voting, here's a link that will tell you
> > whether you're registered and what district you're in, as well as where you
> > go to vote.
> > You can also get a list of all your public officials, with their addresses
> > and phone numbers, and look at a sample ballot.
> > Mike S.
>

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