HelP regarding Emulation!

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Yasir Majeed

HelP regarding Emulation!

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Hello Guys!
 
I want to emulate free runner images. But when i tried to install images from the follwing link, it gave me bad memory block errror in continuous loop. Can anyone guide me how to emulate freerunner images on Qemu emulator? or just give me link regarding that. I have successfully installed the Om2007.2 images, but for freerunner images Om2008.x and onwards, the moko make file solution is not working. Please Help me.. Waiting for ur responses.. the link i tried is below
 
 
Thanx in advance
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Paul Fertser

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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Yasir Majeed <[hidden email]> writes:
> continuous loop. Can anyone guide me how to emulate freerunner
> images on Qemu emulator? or just give me link regarding that. I have
> successfully installed the Om2007.2 images, but for freerunner
> images Om2008.x and onwards, the moko make file solution is not

Nobody's developing OM2008.x anymore. I don't think anybody is using
an emulator. It lacked too many hardware (especially gsm emulation) to
be useful anyway. If you want to debug your apps on host, just compile
them natively and run on host.

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Yasir Majeed

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Then please guide me which distribution of Om or any other can be used? Especialy Qtopia can be used or not? And also tell me how to emulate that distribution.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Paul Fertser <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yasir Majeed <[hidden email]> writes:
> continuous loop. Can anyone guide me how to emulate freerunner
> images on Qemu emulator? or just give me link regarding that. I have
> successfully installed the Om2007.2 images, but for freerunner
> images Om2008.x and onwards, the moko make file solution is not

Nobody's developing OM2008.x anymore. I don't think anybody is using
an emulator. It lacked too many hardware (especially gsm emulation) to
be useful anyway. If you want to debug your apps on host, just compile
them natively and run on host.

--
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
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Paul Fertser

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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Yasir Majeed <[hidden email]> writes:
> Then please guide me which distribution of Om or any other can be
> used? Especialy Qtopia can be used or not? And also tell me how to
> emulate that distribution.

For qtopia look at what QtMoko guys are developing. Ask them for
instructions on compiling natively.

Most community effort is concentrated in SHR distribution which is
OE-based. But emulating it is useless because basically if you want to
do something related to telephony, you need a real device and if not
you just write your apps natively as usual ("elementary" toolkit is
considered to be the most eye-candy and suitable at the same time for
the FR but you can use whatever toolkit you want).

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Sander van Grieken

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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On Thursday 15 October 2009 09:14:33 Paul Fertser wrote:

> Yasir Majeed <[hidden email]> writes:
> > Then please guide me which distribution of Om or any other can be
> > used? Especialy Qtopia can be used or not? And also tell me how to
> > emulate that distribution.
>
> For qtopia look at what QtMoko guys are developing. Ask them for
> instructions on compiling natively.
>
> Most community effort is concentrated in SHR distribution which is
> OE-based. But emulating it is useless because basically if you want to
> do something related to telephony, you need a real device and if not
> you just write your apps natively as usual ("elementary" toolkit is
> considered to be the most eye-candy and suitable at the same time for
> the FR but you can use whatever toolkit you want).

A (long) while back I ran the emulator and made an external GSM available in the emulator
via bluetooth/rfcomm. Of course the sound was still on the external device, but the
emulator was sufficiently tricked to debug at least the signalling stuff, like registering to
a network, making and receiving calls etc.

This was at a time when OM2007 was current, so I cannot help you with the technicals :)

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Yasir Majeed

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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Then can u tell me that can v install SHR images in emulator?

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Paul Fertser <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yasir Majeed <[hidden email]> writes:
> Then please guide me which distribution of Om or any other can be
> used? Especialy Qtopia can be used or not? And also tell me how to
> emulate that distribution.

For qtopia look at what QtMoko guys are developing. Ask them for
instructions on compiling natively.

Most community effort is concentrated in SHR distribution which is
OE-based. But emulating it is useless because basically if you want to
do something related to telephony, you need a real device and if not
you just write your apps natively as usual ("elementary" toolkit is
considered to be the most eye-candy and suitable at the same time for
the FR but you can use whatever toolkit you want).

--
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
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Paul Fertser

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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Yasir Majeed <[hidden email]> writes:
> Then can u tell me that can v install SHR images in emulator?

I tried to help but you don't listen and topposting, sorry, i'm out.

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Esben Damgaard-3

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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Yasir Majeed skrev:
> Then can u tell me that can v install SHR images in emulator?

Paul was trying to say to you that the best thing for you is proably
_not_ to emulate an image.
Instead if you want to develop a program, or try one out, you should
instead compile it locally on you machine, and run it there.

If you still want to emulate an image, try reading this:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu


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Sander van Grieken

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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On Thursday 15 October 2009 11:30:59 Esben Damgaard wrote:

> Yasir Majeed skrev:
> > Then can u tell me that can v install SHR images in emulator?
>
> Paul was trying to say to you that the best thing for you is proably
> _not_ to emulate an image.
> Instead if you want to develop a program, or try one out, you should
> instead compile it locally on you machine, and run it there.
>
> If you still want to emulate an image, try reading this:
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu

And if compiling and debugging locally you need the toolchain :

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain


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Yasir Majeed

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Yea i completely understood his saying but my problem is i m developing a project and i m doing a survey whether i can implement that project on openmoko freerunner or not. Only then i would purchase the device. So i need emulator for initial purposes. That's y i asked that. Otherwise i have to seek for any other device, whose well structured emulator is available.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Sander van Grieken <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thursday 15 October 2009 11:30:59 Esben Damgaard wrote:
> Yasir Majeed skrev:
> > Then can u tell me that can v install SHR images in emulator?
>
> Paul was trying to say to you that the best thing for you is proably
> _not_ to emulate an image.
> Instead if you want to develop a program, or try one out, you should
> instead compile it locally on you machine, and run it there.
>
> If you still want to emulate an image, try reading this:
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu

And if compiling and debugging locally you need the toolchain :

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain


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andrzej zaborowski

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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2009/10/15 Paul Fertser <[hidden email]>:
> Yasir Majeed <[hidden email]> writes:
>> continuous loop. Can anyone guide me how to emulate freerunner
>> images on Qemu emulator? or just give me link regarding that. I have
>> successfully installed the Om2007.2 images, but for freerunner
>> images Om2008.x and onwards, the moko make file solution is not
>
> Nobody's developing OM2008.x anymore. I don't think anybody is using
> an emulator. It lacked too many hardware (especially gsm emulation) to

(Technically there is an emulated GSM modem (that tries to look like
TI Calypso as much as possible) in the emulator code, for example you
can make a call to some specific phone number and it'll call back so
you can test receiving calls (the same can be done using the "ring"
command from qemu monitor).)  It's mainly the CPU differences that
prevent GTA02 images from booting.

Cheers

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Marc Andre Tanner

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 01:12:42AM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:

> 2009/10/15 Paul Fertser <[hidden email]>:
> > Yasir Majeed <[hidden email]> writes:
> >> continuous loop. Can anyone guide me how to emulate freerunner
> >> images on Qemu emulator? or just give me link regarding that. I have
> >> successfully installed the Om2007.2 images, but for freerunner
> >> images Om2008.x and onwards, the moko make file solution is not
> >
> > Nobody's developing OM2008.x anymore. I don't think anybody is using
> > an emulator. It lacked too many hardware (especially gsm emulation) to
>
> (Technically there is an emulated GSM modem (that tries to look like
> TI Calypso as much as possible) in the emulator code, for example you
> can make a call to some specific phone number and it'll call back so
> you can test receiving calls (the same can be done using the "ring"
> command from qemu monitor).)

Do you have any plans to integrate the GSM modem emulation in upstream qemu
(I ask because you are also a qemu maintainer)?

> It's mainly the CPU differences that
> prevent GTA02 images from booting.

What exactly is the problem there? Qemu emulates armv5 cores for example
the versatilepb machine shows the following /proc/cpuinfo:

Processor : ARM926EJ-S rev 5 (v5l)
BogoMIPS : 235.92
Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 5TEJ
CPU variant : 0x0
CPU part : 0x926
CPU revision : 5

Hardware : ARM-Versatile PB
Revision : 0000
Serial : 0000000000000000

Shouldn't it also handle armv4tl code? Am I wrong when I think that emulating
an armv4 within qemu would 'just' mean disabling all armv5 instructions?

Thanks,
Marc

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Yasir Majeed

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Thanx marc for ur help. Well i dont know exactly what's the problem because the emulator perfectly runs for GTA01(Om 2007.2 images), but  when i try to run it for GTA02 images like Om2008.12, OM2008.9 etc, it just goes in loop displaying bad block address messages. I even modified the "env" file that contains command for arm gta02, but it didn't worked. I would not work on GSM, we have only concern of Socket programming. Kindly help in this  issue

waiting for ur response

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Yasir Majeed

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Thanx marc for ur help. Well i dont know exactly what's the problem because the emulator perfectly runs for GTA01(Om 2007.2 images), but  when i try to run it for GTA02 images like Om2008.12, OM2008.9 etc, it just goes in loop displaying bad block address messages. I even modified the "env" file that contains command for arm gta02, but it didn't worked. I would not work on GSM, we have only concern of Socket programming. Kindly help in this  issue

waiting for ur response

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andrzej zaborowski

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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2009/10/16 Marc Andre Tanner <[hidden email]>:
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 01:12:42AM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
>> (Technically there is an emulated GSM modem (that tries to look like
>> TI Calypso as much as possible) in the emulator code, for example you
>> can make a call to some specific phone number and it'll call back so
>> you can test receiving calls (the same can be done using the "ring"
>> command from qemu monitor).)
>
> Do you have any plans to integrate the GSM modem emulation in upstream qemu

No, I don't believe it belongs there.  The interface is a serial port
after all so it's very easy to connect a modem emulator running in a
separate process, as a separate project.  phonesim is nice for that
purpose.

>
>> It's mainly the CPU differences that
>> prevent GTA02 images from booting.
>
> What exactly is the problem there? Qemu emulates armv5 cores for example
> the versatilepb machine shows the following /proc/cpuinfo:

I didn't mind the arm instruction set, more likely the differences
between s3c2410 and 2442.  It's only a guess though.

Cheers

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Yasir Majeed

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Thanx marc for ur help. Well i dont know exactly what's the problem because the emulator perfectly runs for GTA01(Om 2007.2 images), but  when i try to run it for GTA02 images like Om2008.12, OM2008.9 etc, it just goes in loop displaying bad block address messages. I even modified the "env" file that contains command for arm gta02, but it didn't worked. I would not work on GSM, we have only concern of Socket programming. Kindly help in this  issue

waiting for ur response

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Mike Westerhof (mwester)

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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Yasir Majeed wrote:
> Thanx marc for ur help. Well i dont know exactly what's the problem
> because the emulator perfectly runs for GTA01(Om 2007.2 images), but
> when i try to run it for GTA02 images like Om2008.12, OM2008.9 etc, it
> just goes in loop displaying bad block address messages.

In hopes of finally ending this thread, I'll try to explain (again) what
others have been saying.  :)

The issue is that the emulator does not emulate the GTA02 hardware, only
the GTA01 hardware (and only a subset of that).

While it is true that the core CPU in the GTA02 is supported by Qemu,
that's insufficient -- the emulator needs to be "taught" (i.e. someone
needs to write the code) how to emulate the other components in the
GTA02.  I suspect that to start with, you would need to emulate the
flash memory subsystem in order to get past the bad block stuff (just a
guess) -- but as soon as you get past that, you'll have to emulate the
PMU chip used by the GTA02 (it's very different from the one in the
GTA01).  That assumes that the emulator already knows about the S3C2440
SoC (System-on-Chip, which is the Samsung CPU with the integrated I/O
devices used in the GTA02); the GTA01 uses an older SoC which is --  you
guessed it! -- not entirely compatible.

The reason the emulator does not support the GTA02 is the same reason
why it doesn't support all the hardware in the GTA01: the emulator was
intended to be used by users developing software before the GTA01
hardware was stable enough and available for use.  Since then, as others
have pointed out, developing and debugging on the hardware is so much
more practical that nobody has had any interest in further development
of the emulator.

So, the bottom line: the emulator does not, and most likely will never
boot any GTA02 images.

I can't help you out any further, because you haven't told anyone what
it is that you need from the emulator.  You say "Socket programming" --
well, you can do that on a desktop Linux system -- there is absolutely
no difference in the sockets interface; it's the same kernel source
code, the same C library, the same basic stuff.  The SoC is even
little-endian, just like a desktop system, so that shouldn't be an issue.

So, at this point, if you are convinced that you need an emulator, I
suggest that you look elsewhere -- the GTA02 is not the device that will
meet that need.  If, perhaps, you are inclined to explain a bit about
your need, perhaps the very diverse (and generally very smart) group of
folks on this list can offer some specific suggestions about
alternatives that might permit the GTA02 to meet your needs, or if not,
perhaps they know of a specific emulator and hardware device that would.

Regards,
Mike (mwester)

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Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)-2

Re: HelP regarding Emulation!

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On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:37:19 +0500 Yasir Majeed <[hidden email]> said:

if you can implement it on linux, it fits on a 480x640 screen @16bpp, it
only requires 1 mouse button - that is only moving when pressed down, it doesnt
require real buttons beyond power and aux, then it will work on freerunner.
it's that simple. thats the point of linux on embedded. proper linux. its the
same thing you have on desktop and laptop. certain peripherals may be different
- but very few emulators porperly emulate all peripherals.

one thing you will NEVER know until you get the device. is.. if it is fast
enough. you will just never know. NO emulator actually also emulates exact
speed requirements (Eg memory latency, throughput to glamo's video ram, exact #
of cycles per instruction, etc. etc.).

you're going to have to make your decisions without an emulator as it doesnt
actually tell you the answer to your question.

> Yea i completely understood his saying but my problem is i m developing a
> project and i m doing a survey whether i can implement that project on
> openmoko freerunner or not. Only then i would purchase the device. So i need
> emulator for initial purposes. That's y i asked that. Otherwise i have to
> seek for any other device, whose well structured emulator is available.
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Sander van Grieken <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday 15 October 2009 11:30:59 Esben Damgaard wrote:
> > > Yasir Majeed skrev:
> > > > Then can u tell me that can v install SHR images in emulator?
> > >
> > > Paul was trying to say to you that the best thing for you is proably
> > > _not_ to emulate an image.
> > > Instead if you want to develop a program, or try one out, you should
> > > instead compile it locally on you machine, and run it there.
> > >
> > > If you still want to emulate an image, try reading this:
> > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu
> >
> > And if compiling and debugging locally you need the toolchain :
> >
> > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Yasir Majeed
>


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Marc Andre Tanner

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On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 07:25:11PM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:

> 2009/10/16 Marc Andre Tanner <[hidden email]>:
> > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 01:12:42AM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
> >> (Technically there is an emulated GSM modem (that tries to look like
> >> TI Calypso as much as possible) in the emulator code, for example you
> >> can make a call to some specific phone number and it'll call back so
> >> you can test receiving calls (the same can be done using the "ring"
> >> command from qemu monitor).)
> >
> > Do you have any plans to integrate the GSM modem emulation in upstream qemu
>
> No, I don't believe it belongs there.  The interface is a serial port
> after all so it's very easy to connect a modem emulator running in a
> separate process, as a separate project.  phonesim is nice for that
> purpose.

That makes perfect sense, I didn't even know of phonesim.

> >> It's mainly the CPU differences that
> >> prevent GTA02 images from booting.
> >
> > What exactly is the problem there? Qemu emulates armv5 cores for example
> > the versatilepb machine shows the following /proc/cpuinfo:
>
> I didn't mind the arm instruction set, more likely the differences
> between s3c2410 and 2442.  It's only a guess though.

Ah ok. For some reason I only thought about the instruction set.

Thanks,
Marc

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