Gale! It seems to be a bug in Pulse, not in ALSA

[igorche]

Now I can hear the true sound in Audacity and I can record without overtones of 50Hz!

The the noise in recordings is much smaller!!!
ALSA is working well now!

The magic solution is: "sudo killall pulseaudio"

I do not want to remove Pulse completely for many reasons.
Without Pulse I would have a lot of other problems.

Pulse is actually a great thing, but...


Getting Audacity to Record (when time stuck at 0):
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=936448



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[Gale (Audacity Team)]

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:49:22 +0200
Igor Chernenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Now I can hear the true sound in Audacity and I can record without overtones
> of 50Hz!
>
> The the noise in recordings is much smaller!!!
> ALSA is working well now!
>
> The magic solution is: "sudo killall pulseaudio"

Interesting. Does this mean that the "ALSA:Pulse" device specially
included with the Audacity package on Ubuntu no longer works?


> Pulse is actually a great thing, but...
>
>
> Getting Audacity to Record (when time stuck at 0):
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=936448

A bit confusing (to me). Are the two users saying the opposite?  


Thanks


Gale







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[igorche]

"Does this mean that the "ALSA:Pulse" device specially
included with the Audacity package on Ubuntu no longer works?"

It works, but with severe non-linear distortions.

Read this:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1202857

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[Rob Kudla]

On Thursday 02 July 2009 04:49:22 pm Igor Chernenko wrote:
> Now I can hear the true sound in Audacity and I can record without
> overtones of 50Hz!
> The the noise in recordings is much smaller!!!
> ALSA is working well now!
> The magic solution is: "sudo killall pulseaudio"

This makes more sense to me, since I disabled and killed pulseaudio before
ever trying to do any recording under Jaunty, having already run into
problems with it (high CPU usage, mainly.)

I really don't see what the introduction of pulse did for anyone except
that 0.1% of people who run multiple Ubuntu machines and want to listen to
the audio from one on the other with a slight delay.  Oh yeah, and
inconvenience those of us to whom sound actually is important.

Rob


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[igorche]

Hi Rob!

PulseAudio is actually a great thing.
The kids created a fantastic toy.

You see, Pulse is a streaming server.
It is a kind of Internet radio.
You can now make Internet radio broadcasting directly from your Linux Desktop.
And you can move the audio stream to Internet with one click of the mouse.
Cool !!!

But it is a kind of AM Radio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM_radio

Amplitude modulation.
That is why non-linear distortions.

Perhaps, Paul can explain in plain words what a devil it is.

Best,
Igor

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[juhan-2]

Question about that... if you stream audio to different machines (or like Apple AirPort Express, is there any open source to drive that?) in the house, don't you end up with (variable?) delay in the output sound, which I think would sound like weird echoes coming from throughout the house?

Juhan

p.s. Played with Apple iTunes -> AirPort Express (wireless) and had a LOT of dropouts and flakey operation. Not sure exactly why. Haven't tried any *nix audio streaming yet. Suggestions?


-----Original message-----
From: Igor Chernenko [hidden email]
Date: Fri,  3 Jul 2009 16:59:27 -0230
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Audacity-users] Gale! It seems to be a bug in Pulse,
        not in ALSA

> Hi Rob!
>
> PulseAudio is actually a great thing.
> The kids created a fantastic toy.
>
> You see, Pulse is a streaming server.
> It is a kind of Internet radio.
> You can now make Internet radio broadcasting directly from your Linux Desktop.
> And you can move the audio stream to Internet with one click of the mouse.
> Cool !!!
>
> But it is a kind of AM Radio
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM_radio
>
> Amplitude modulation.
> That is why non-linear distortions.
>
> Perhaps, Paul can explain in plain words what a devil it is.
>
> Best,
> Igor
>
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[Rob Kudla]

yFive or On Friday 03 July 2009 01:09:56 pm Igor Chernenko wrote:
> You see, Pulse is a streaming server.
> It is a kind of Internet radio.
> You can now make Internet radio broadcasting directly from your Linux
> Desktop. And you can move the audio stream to Internet with one click of
> the mouse. Cool !!!

I know, that's what I was referring to.  And about one in a thousand
desktop users are going to care about such a thing, and many of that small
number is going to be people who are annoyed with pulse's side-effects.

Five or six years ago I was already using Icecast to stream my partner's
mp3 collection to his laptop for him, and it was pretty easy (xmms plugin,
and he used vnc to change tracks or playlists) so I still don't see any
advantage for Pulse except for greater ease of use if both the client and
the server are running Jaunty.

Rob


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[igorche]

Hi Rob!

Do you have an old box for experiments?
There are some other interesting phenomena to study.

The playback of OSS4 seems to be different from that of ALSA.
One of them might be wrong.
Does ALSA contain a kind of equalizer too?

You can easily create test audio files with Audacity Nyquist with
such commands:

(mult (sum (hzosc 10) (hzosc 19500)) 0.45)

(mult (hzosc 19500) 0.9)

(mult (hzosc 10) 0.9)

These produce three files:

10Hz + 19500Hz
19500Hz
10Hz

How to create test files

1. Audacity -> Generate -> Silence (5 seconds are enough)

2. Effects -> Nyquist prompt

3. type a command, or copy-and-paste (paste with Ctrl+V)

And we can ask the Nyquist team to reveal some more magic commands...

Best,
Igor



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[Rob Kudla]

On Friday 03 July 2009 02:19:45 pm Igor Chernenko wrote:
> Hi Rob!
> Do you have an old box for experiments?

No, not really.  I have an old laptop with a broken hard disk on which I
can run Puppy or DSL off of a USB key, basically using it as a clunky
netbook, and I don't even want to try to mess with its VIA chipset as far
as audio goes.  It won't even boot Intrepid or Jaunty.

Rob


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[igorche]

What you need is ossplay with OSS4, nothing more.
You can run it with Puppy.

ALSA - aplay
OSS4 - ossplay (command line)

Arch Linux should be small too

Some distros such as Arch Linux provide packages in the main
repository to install OSS 4.x
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Linux

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[Gale (Audacity Team)]

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:45:13 +0200
Igor Chernenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
> "Does this mean that the "ALSA:Pulse" device specially
> included with the Audacity package on Ubuntu no longer works?"
>
> It works, but with severe non-linear distortions.
>
> Read this:
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1202857

The ALSA:Pulse device worked reasonably well for me in the
1.3.7 Audacity package provided by Ubuntu when recording
from microphone (obviously I never killed pulse). I mainly
work on Windows so I did not test extensively on Linux.  

CVS HEAD now includes a PortAudio patch that should make
non-mmap ALSA devices like Pulse that don't map into memory
work properly with Audacity. Has anyone tried building Audacity
from CVS HEAD and seen if that helps any issues they may be
having when recording from Audacity with Pulse running?



Gale








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[igorche]

Hi Gale!

I would like to try.
I have never built anything from CVS,
but I have already compiled a lot of things on Ubuntu successfully.

The best is a source as tar.gz (or the like)

I remember I have already read a howto on Audacity web site
on how to build Audacity from CVS.
It is not comprehensible for me.
It was, perhaps, written by SUSE people.
You see, I am essentially spoiled by the comfort of Ubuntu documentation.

Best,
Igor

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[igorche]

And it is a well known fact that Audacity is difficult to use on Ubuntu

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1202857
QUOTE:
"You could just set the sound devices in audacity preferences to use alsa, surely, as I have. If I try and use pulse I can not record anything nor play it back, I just get error messages, but I don't have to kill pulse system-wide for the audacity session." (ajgreeny)

My friends reported similar problems (on Ubuntu 8.10, for example)

Just take a look at Ubuntu Multimedia Production  forum,
and you will see how many users have problems with Audacity
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335

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[igorche]

A clear-cut experiment with Audacity Nyquist.

1. Run Adacity

2. Audacity -> Generate -> Silence (5 seconds are enough)

2. Effects -> Nyquist prompt

3. type the command

(mult (hzosc 50) 0.9)

or copy-and-paste (paste with Ctrl+V)

This produced a sine wave of 50Hz.

4. Ctrl+A (select the entire wave)

5. Effects -> Nyquist prompt

6. type the command

(clip s 0.5)

Now the wave is clipped.

7. Mark a part of the wave.

8. Analyze -> Plot Spectrum

And you see odd overtones of 50Hz.

Listen to it! Does it sounds similar to the noise in your recordings?

What is more, a non-linear transformation of amplitude, such as tanh,
for example,
can also produce overtones.

This is how PulseAudio produces overtones of 50Hz on
my notebook when I record something.

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[Gale (Audacity Team)]

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 23:02:13 +0200
Igor Chernenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would like to try.
> I have never built anything from CVS,
> but I have already compiled a lot of things on Ubuntu successfully.
>
> The best is a source as tar.gz (or the like)
>
> I remember I have already read a howto on Audacity web site
> on how to build Audacity from CVS.
> It is not comprehensible for me.
> It was, perhaps, written by SUSE people.
>
> You see, I am essentially spoiled by the comfort of Ubuntu documentation.

Did you try our Wiki?
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=CompilingAudacityForBeginners
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Developing_On_Linux

Certainly those pages could do with some work or updating
(and the beginners' page designedly still relates to Audacity
stable), but they are essentially usable. Well I could compile CVS
as a Linux novice, which you aren't.  :=)

Or, you can wait for 1.3.8 to see if Audacity performs better with
Pulse. 1.3.8 will be very soon.

> And it is a well known fact that Audacity is difficult to use on Ubuntu
>
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1202857
> QUOTE:
> "You could just set the sound devices in audacity preferences to use alsa,
> surely, as I have. If I try and use pulse I can not record anything nor play
> it back, I just get error messages, but I don't have to kill pulse
> system-wide for the audacity session."
> (ajgreeny<http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=27747>
> )
>
> My friends reported similar problems (on Ubuntu 8.10, for example)
>
> Just take a look at Ubuntu Multimedia
> Production<http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335>
> forum,
> and you will see how many users have problems with Audacity
> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335

Before Ubuntu packaged Audacity with an ALSA:pulse device
you simply had to turn pulseaudio off to record with Audacity
because PortAudio (our Audio I/O interface) did not support
pulseaudio.

Even since then, there are some problems because Pulse is the
default audio system on Ubuntu, yet at the same time it seems
to be admitted in those Forums that the Ubuntu implementation
of Pulse was not perfect.    

So you must compile CVS or wait for1.3.8 and see if things are
better between Pulse and Audacity. Then we have problems with
JACK for the same reason (PortAudio does not yet support it
properly).



Gale



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[igorche]

Hi Gale!

O.K. If you do not know the secret commands,
we can take a howto for compilation of ffmpeg,
and adapt it for the purpose.

Question 1: Which libraries should be installed before compilation of Audacity?
                  (the so called "dependencies")

Question 2: With which of options of configure script to disable ALSA and Pulse?

Question 3: Which are the proper options of checkinstall for Audacity (svn)?

I want to have only OSS in my Audacity.
And I want to have FFmpeg and all such goodies in my Audacity, of course.

Now, the howto for ffmpeg
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=786095
Quote:
Get the most current source files from the official FFmpeg svn,
compile, and install. Run "./configure --help" to see what features
you can enable/disable. If you are behind a firewall or unable to use
subversion, then nightly FFmpeg snapshots are also available.

Code:
cd
svn checkout svn://svn.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg/trunk ffmpeg
cd ffmpeg
./configure --enable-gpl --enable-nonfree --enable-pthreads
--enable-libfaac --enable-libfaad --enable-libmp3lame
--enable-libtheora --enable-libx264 --enable-libxvid --enable-x11grab
make
sudo checkinstall --fstrans=no --install=yes --pkgname=ffmpeg
--pkgversion "3:0.svn`date +%Y%m%d`-12ubuntu3" --default

Would you be so kind as to help me to get my 3 questions answered?

Best regards,
Igor

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[igorche]

$ wx-config --version
The program 'wx-config' can be found in the following packages:
* libwxbase2.4-dbg
* libwxbase2.4-dev
* libwxbase2.6-dbg
* libwxbase2.6-dev
* libwxbase2.8-dbg
* libwxbase2.8-dev
* libwxgtk2.4-dbg
* libwxgtk2.4-dev
* libwxgtk2.6-dbg
* libwxgtk2.6-dev
* libwxgtk2.8-dbg
* libwxgtk2.8-dev
Try: sudo apt-get install <selected package>
bash: wx-config: command not found

Did you try our Wiki?
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=CompilingAudacityForBeginners
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Developing_On_Linux

I am reading now.
The fist impression:
it is a kind of very strange mystification and obfuscation of very simple things.


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[igorche]

The Golden Rule:
On Ubuntu, you should not compile the fundamental libraries,
if you are not a developer of Ubuntu.

All the libraries you may need are already compiled, are available
in official repositories, and these libraries are the best.

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[valleyview]

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

New question from new user. Microphone bar will not stay up. When I move it up it shoots straight back to the left. Having very low mike volume input, please advise, thank you, Alex

-------------- Original message from [hidden email]: --------------

>
> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 23:02:13 +0200
> Igor Chernenko wrote:
> > I would like to try.
> > I have never built anything from CVS,
> > but I have already compiled a lot of things on Ubuntu successfully.
> >
> > The best is a source as tar.gz (or the like)
> >
> > I remember I have already read a howto on Audacity web site
> > on how to build Audacity from CVS.
> > It is not comprehensible for me.
> > It was, perhaps, written by SUSE people.
> >
> > You see, I am essentially spoiled by the comfort of Ubuntu documentation.
>
> Did you try our Wiki?
> http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=CompilingAudacityForBeginners
> http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Developing_On_Linux
>
> Certainly those pages could do with some work or updating
> (and the beginners' page designedly still relates to Audacity
> stable), but they are essentially usable. Well I could compile CVS
> as a Linux novice, which you aren't. :=)
>
> Or, you can wait for 1.3.8 to see if Audacity performs better with
> Pulse. 1.3.8 will be very soon.
>
>
> > And it is a well known fact that Audacity is difficult to use on Ubuntu
> >
> > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1202857
> > QUOTE:
> > "You could just set the sound devices in audacity preferences to use alsa,
> > surely, as I have. If I try and use pulse I can not record anything nor play
> > it back, I just get error messages, but I don't have to kill pulse
> > system-wide for the audacity session."
> > (ajgreeny
> > )
> >
> > My friends reported similar problems (on Ubuntu 8.10, for example)
> >
> > Just take a look at Ubuntu Multimedia
> > Production
> > forum,
> > and you will see how many users have problems with Audacity
> > http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335
>
> Before Ubuntu packaged Audacity with an ALSA:pulse device
> you simply had to turn pulseaudio off to record with Audacity
> because PortAudio (our Audio I/O interface) did not support
> pulseaudio.
>
> Even since then, there are some problems because Pulse is the
> default audio system on Ubuntu, yet at the same time it seems
> to be admitted in those Forums that the Ubuntu implementation
> of Pulse was not perfect.
>
> So you must compile CVS or wait for1.3.8 and see if things are
> better between Pulse and Audacity. Then we have problems with
> JACK for the same reason (PortAudio does not yet support it
> properly).
>
>
>
> Gale
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[David R. Sky]

Hi Alex,

For such questions, you need to specify your computer's operating system
, version of Audacity you are using, and type of microphone. Otherwise we
cannot help you.

David

--
David R. Sky
http://www.shellworld.net/~davidsky/


On Sun, 5 Jul 2009, [hidden email] wrote:

>
>
> New question from new user. Microphone bar will not stay up. When I move it up it shoots straight back to the left. Having very low mike volume input, please advise, thank you, Alex -------------- Original message from [hidden email]: --------------
>
>
>>
>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 23:02:13 +0200
>> Igor Chernenko  wrote:
>>> I would like to try.
>>> I have never built anything from CVS,
>>> but I have already compiled a lot of things on Ubuntu successfully.
>>>
>>> The best is a source as tar.gz (or the like)
>>>
>>> I remember I have already read a howto on Audacity web site
>>> on how to build Audacity from CVS.
>>> It is not comprehensible for me.
>>> It was, perhaps, written by SUSE people.
>>>
>>> You see, I am essentially spoiled by the comfort of Ubuntu documentation.
>>
>> Did you try our Wiki?
>> http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=CompilingAudacityForBeginners
>> http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Developing_On_Linux
>>
>> Certainly those pages could do with some work or updating
>> (and the beginners' page designedly still relates to Audacity
>> stable), but they are essentially usable. Well I could compile CVS
>> as a Linux novice, which you aren't.  :=)
>>
>> Or, you can wait for 1.3.8 to see if Audacity performs better with
>> Pulse. 1.3.8 will be very soon.
>>
>>
>>> And it is a well known fact that Audacity is difficult to use on Ubuntu
>>>
>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1202857
>>> QUOTE:
>>> "You could just set the sound devices in audacity preferences to use alsa,
>>> surely, as I have. If I try and use pulse I can not record anything nor play
>>> it back, I just get error messages, but I don't have to kill pulse
>>> system-wide for the audacity session."
>>> (ajgreeny
>>> )
>>>
>>> My friends reported similar problems (on Ubuntu 8.10, for example)
>>>
>>> Just take a look at Ubuntu Multimedia
>>> Production
>>> forum,
>>> and you will see how many users have problems with Audacity
>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335
>>
>> Before Ubuntu packaged Audacity with an ALSA:pulse device
>> you simply had to turn pulseaudio off to record with Audacity
>> because PortAudio (our Audio I/O interface) did not support
>> pulseaudio.
>>
>> Even since then, there are some problems because Pulse is the
>> default audio system on Ubuntu, yet at the same time it seems
>> to be admitted in those Forums that the Ubuntu implementation
>> of Pulse was not perfect.
>>
>> So you must compile CVS or wait for1.3.8 and see if things are
>> better between Pulse and Audacity. Then we have problems with
>> JACK for the same reason (PortAudio does not yet support it
>> properly).
>>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

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