[Fwd: approved contract]

[Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)-2]

Board,
the contract is now finally available, find it attached. All points that
were raised over the past four(!) months have been included. The current
version has been edited to its final version by Tyler Mitchell, Arnulf
Christl, Paul Ramsey, Lorenzo Becchi, Jeroen Ticheler, and Jeff McKenna in
Sydney.

I send it to this list for final confirmation. This is not a motion and we
do not need to vote on it and I am fine with the contract as it is now. I
am especially happy with the experience of working with Grupo Pacifico who
are very uncomplicated and at the same time professional.

It is a bit annoying that it is has taken so long to finally get it done
which to a great part was my fault. Getting it done in no time at all in
Sydney shows how very efficient f2f meetings are. I will therefore insist
that we have a f2f board meeting within the next few months. Several Ideas
have been already been floated including to meet in Vancouver, Montreal,
Canada or Bonn, Germany. Before we start to find a concrete place and date
please let this list know what restriction you might have in coming so
that we can solve them. I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
for two days.

Bets regards,
Arnulf.

PS:
I am using a new web mailing server and it just flashed a few warnings, so
maybe the document has been garbled up.


---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: approved contract
From:    "Lorenzo Becchi" <[hidden email]>
Date:    Thu, November 5, 2009 19:30
To:      "Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)" <[hidden email]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Hi Arnulf,
this is the approved copy of the contract.
Grupo Pacifico approved without any other change to the contract.
We will need 3 copies signed by you and sent to Grupo Pacifico. Then you
will receive back one copy with all owr signs.

do you want me to ask the Board to confirm the contract?
can you do it yourself?

we are getting closer!!!

ciao
lorenzo


--
Arnulf Christl
President OSGeo
http://www.osgeo.org
Hi Arnulf,
this is the approved copy of the contract.
Grupo Pacifico approved without any other change to the contract.
We will need 3 copies signed by you and sent to Grupo Pacifico. Then you will receive back one copy with all owr signs.

do you want me to ask the Board to confirm the contract?
can you do it yourself?

we are getting closer!!!

ciao
lorenzo


_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Tyler Mitchell]

It's probably worth mentioning, for the new directors, that this FOSS4G conference organiser's contract is part one of the process.  The next (timing?) item on that front will be to approve a operational budget for the event.  Once that's approved than all the decisions of the event are in Lorenzo's and the Local Organising Committee's (LOC) hands. 

We've learned a few lessons these past couple years and there are a few ideas floating around for how we could make FOSS4G fit a bit tighter with OSGeo's mission in some ways;  but I would like to say that Lorenzo is already off to a good start having had lots of great discussions while in Sydney.  I'm really glad he was able to make it.

I'm thrilled to see the contract finalised this early on.

Tyler

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009 5:11 pm
Subject: [Board] [Fwd: approved contract]
To: [hidden email]

> Board,
> the contract is now finally available, find it attached. All
> points that
> were raised over the past four(!) months have been included. The
> currentversion has been edited to its final version by Tyler
> Mitchell, Arnulf
> Christl, Paul Ramsey, Lorenzo Becchi, Jeroen Ticheler, and Jeff
> McKenna in
> Sydney.
>
> I send it to this list for final confirmation. This is not a
> motion and we
> do not need to vote on it and I am fine with the contract as it
> is now. I
> am especially happy with the experience of working with Grupo
> Pacifico who
> are very uncomplicated and at the same time professional.
>
> It is a bit annoying that it is has taken so long to finally get
> it done
> which to a great part was my fault. Getting it done in no time
> at all in
> Sydney shows how very efficient f2f meetings are. I will
> therefore insist
> that we have a f2f board meeting within the next few months.
> Several Ideas
> have been already been floated including to meet in Vancouver,
> Montreal,Canada or Bonn, Germany. Before we start to find a
> concrete place and date
> please let this list know what restriction you might have in
> coming so
> that we can solve them. I really mean to get all of us meet in
> one place
> for two days.
>
> Bets regards,
> Arnulf.
>
> PS:
> I am using a new web mailing server and it just flashed a few
> warnings, so
> maybe the document has been garbled up.
>
>
> ---------------------------- Original Message -------------------
> ---------
> Subject: approved contract
> From:    "Lorenzo Becchi" <[hidden email]>
> Date:    Thu, November 5, 2009 19:30
> To:      "Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)"
> <[hidden email]>--------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------
>
>  Hi Arnulf,
> this is the approved copy of the contract.
> Grupo Pacifico approved without any other change to the contract.
> We will need 3 copies signed by you and sent to Grupo Pacifico.
> Then you
> will receive back one copy with all owr signs.
>
> do you want me to ask the Board to confirm the contract?
> can you do it yourself?
>
> we are getting closer!!!
>
> ciao
> lorenzo
>
>
> --
> Arnulf Christl
> President OSGeo
> http://www.osgeo.org

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Howard Butler]

On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:

> I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
> for two days.

I don't see how this is remotely possible given our budgetary  
constraints.  There's no way I can afford footing a F2F board meeting  
out of pocket right now, and OSGeo has never been in a position of  
being able to support board member's travel to F2F meetings.

We should see if we can procure reliable low-cost tele/video  
conferencing before putting the squeeze on members to spend a day of  
travel on each side of a two day F2F.  Our meeting situation (IRC +  
free skype) is awful.

Howard
_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)-2]

Howard,
thanks for making a clear statement to a constraint that we have. But I am
inclined to say that we should then remove that constraint instead of not
meeting. I also want to have my expenses paid for and I think this is
something that OSGeo must be able to do in the future if it wants to
continue to prosper and grow. Otherwise we can make it a requirement that
future Directors must be capable and willing to afford a meeting on their
own expense.

I have started several attempts at getting together at least a list of
potential sponsors and to then nudge some board members into actually
contacting them and to report of their success but so far to no avail.

Does anybody have a better suggestion at how to solve this problem? My
guess is that nothing much will happen if we just sit around and wait.
Another example: "Somebody" ought to get into contact with Autodesk and
make sure that they stay at the 50k level. They would be paying 150k every
year for their CollabNet environment if we would not have prepared a cosy
nest for them. Or did I miss something along the way? Its just a deal and
someone will have to dicker.

It's just that I am not going to do it all on my own because I simply
cannot, I am as busy as most of us. And probably I am not even very good
at it (too blunt, impatient, etc... :-)

Best regards,
Arnulf.


On Fri, November 6, 2009 13:51, Howard Butler wrote:
>

> On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:
>
>
>> I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
>> for two days.
>
> I don't see how this is remotely possible given our budgetary
> constraints.  There's no way I can afford footing a F2F board meeting out
> of pocket right now, and OSGeo has never been in a position of being able
> to support board member's travel to F2F meetings.
>
> We should see if we can procure reliable low-cost tele/video
> conferencing before putting the squeeze on members to spend a day of travel
> on each side of a two day F2F.  Our meeting situation (IRC + free skype)
> is awful.
>
> Howard
>
>

--
Arnulf Christl
President OSGeo
http://www.osgeo.org

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Dave McIlhagga]

A quick thought from the sidelines.

If $$$ is the primary concern -- it's worth noting that in the case of  
most non-profits I've spoken with, fundraising is one of the most  
important tasks of the organization's Executive Director.  This is  
because fundraising is something that takes dedicated energy, and  
therefore difficult for volunteers to undertake.

If money is a key issue for the organization at the moment -- maybe  
the board should assign this a higher priority in Tyler's work tasks?

Dave



On 2009-11-06, at 9:41 AM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:

> Howard,
> thanks for making a clear statement to a constraint that we have.  
> But I am
> inclined to say that we should then remove that constraint instead  
> of not
> meeting. I also want to have my expenses paid for and I think this is
> something that OSGeo must be able to do in the future if it wants to
> continue to prosper and grow. Otherwise we can make it a requirement  
> that
> future Directors must be capable and willing to afford a meeting on  
> their
> own expense.
>
> I have started several attempts at getting together at least a list of
> potential sponsors and to then nudge some board members into actually
> contacting them and to report of their success but so far to no avail.
>
> Does anybody have a better suggestion at how to solve this problem? My
> guess is that nothing much will happen if we just sit around and wait.
> Another example: "Somebody" ought to get into contact with Autodesk  
> and
> make sure that they stay at the 50k level. They would be paying 150k  
> every
> year for their CollabNet environment if we would not have prepared a  
> cosy
> nest for them. Or did I miss something along the way? Its just a  
> deal and
> someone will have to dicker.
>
> It's just that I am not going to do it all on my own because I simply
> cannot, I am as busy as most of us. And probably I am not even very  
> good
> at it (too blunt, impatient, etc... :-)
>
> Best regards,
> Arnulf.
>
>
> On Fri, November 6, 2009 13:51, Howard Butler wrote:
>>
>
>> On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
>>> for two days.
>>
>> I don't see how this is remotely possible given our budgetary
>> constraints.  There's no way I can afford footing a F2F board  
>> meeting out
>> of pocket right now, and OSGeo has never been in a position of  
>> being able
>> to support board member's travel to F2F meetings.
>>
>> We should see if we can procure reliable low-cost tele/video
>> conferencing before putting the squeeze on members to spend a day  
>> of travel
>> on each side of a two day F2F.  Our meeting situation (IRC + free  
>> skype)
>> is awful.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Arnulf Christl
> President OSGeo
> http://www.osgeo.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Tyler Mitchell]

I certainly appreciate having the F2F events and I really did miss it when we only had a few people meeting at FOSS4G.   I do wonder if there is some sort of event or professional roundtable or even code sprint, etc. that we could organise and have funded by attendees and then offset the directors travel costs that way.   Many of you are in demand and respected as speakers, business people and local catalysts, I'm sure we could get a few 100 people together with a low cost entrance and help fund the entire thing.  At least any offset of personal costs would be better than nothing at this point.

At any rate, I think FOSS4G should be one event at minimum the directors aim to be at, however possible.  Arnulf you are hoping to have one more as well? 

How many directors will be attending any kind of code sprint this year - for example in US/Canada or Europe or elsewhere where there may be >1 directors present?

> Otherwise we can make it a
> requirement that
> future Directors must be capable and willing to afford a meeting
> on their
> own expense.

At least we aren't like another non-profit board I'm on, where us directors are being asked to fund activities with a set annual contribution - either directly with their own cash or in-kind by raising sponsorships.  The purpose is for the gov't tax folks to see the directors are committed to success of the organisation.

I'd like to see us not have to move there, but I think there are some innovate ways we could strive to meet a few more travel costs:
* Supporting and promoting a $20-50 paid membership level. 
* Looking at my typically underused travel budget. 
* Designating a portion of any FOSS4G profits (several directors are often part of ensuring FOSS4G is a success)
* .. etc. 

I'll try to brainstorm a few more.  I just suggest that, like Arnulf states, we try to find a way to take care of it though that might mean thinking of ways apart from using traditional sponsorship funds.

> I have started several attempts at getting together at least a
> list of
> potential sponsors and to then nudge some board members into actually
> contacting them and to report of their success but so far to no avail.

We have had some success recently where I am able to meet (face to face) with potential sponsors and see them turn into paying ones.  I expect a couple new ones to come out of those I met at FOSS4G (already had at least one specific inquiry).  Whenever I travel I'm on the hunt for sponsors and it usually bears fruit a couple times a year, it has also helped me to reconfirm commitment from existing sponsors.  And a couple directors have helped hand potential sponsors over to me to follow up with.  It's not perfect yet, but I do feel this past 6 months or so has been a big improvement. 

I'm also seeing the project sponsorship prospects starting to become a bit more active (active beyond just GDAL/OGR I mean ).  This means a bit more administration on my part, but helps build some base funding.

More thoughts later, hope you are well,
Tyler

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Paul Ramsey]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Tyler Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How many directors will be attending any kind of code sprint this year - for
> example in US/Canada or Europe or elsewhere where there may be >1 directors
> present?

The C tribe sprint will be in New York this year (pending a little
more planning) in February'ish. Hopefully we can get a number of our
board members there?

P.
_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Frank Warmerdam]

Howard Butler wrote:

>
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:
>
>> I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
>> for two days.
>
> I don't see how this is remotely possible given our budgetary
> constraints.  There's no way I can afford footing a F2F board meeting
> out of pocket right now, and OSGeo has never been in a position of being
> able to support board member's travel to F2F meetings.

Folks,

I have been somewhat hesitant about this in the past, but if we can afford
it I think it would be reasonable for OSGeo to pay for travel + 2 days
hotel stay for board members to attend FOSS4G to enable face to face meetings
of most of the board.  I think FOSS4G is the highest leverage event to use
for a F2F since many directors will already be attending, we hold the
AGM there, and it is a great opportunity for the board members to do other
OSGeo related things at FOSS4G itself. (I am suggesting FOSS4G as opposed to
a code sprint for instance, though I realize this puts out a next F2F
roughly a year).

This still leaves the board members out 2-4 days of their own time,
a significant issue in itself.

Of course, can we afford it is quite up in the air.

> We should see if we can procure reliable low-cost tele/video
> conferencing before putting the squeeze on members to spend a day of
> travel on each side of a two day F2F.  Our meeting situation (IRC + free
> skype) is awful.

Skype is certainly not working smoothly for me - I find the voice calls
barely functioning.  I'm not so down on IRC myself, but it does not
constitute an official meeting and it isn't the same as F2F.  I'm dubious
about  video conferencing, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Howard Butler]

On Nov 6, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Tyler Mitchell wrote:

>
>
> > Otherwise we can make it a
> > requirement that
> > future Directors must be capable and willing to afford a meeting
> > on their
> > own expense.
>
> At least we aren't like another non-profit board I'm on, where us  
> directors are being asked to fund activities with a set annual  
> contribution - either directly with their own cash or in-kind by  
> raising sponsorships.  The purpose is for the gov't tax folks to see  
> the directors are committed to success of the organisation.

It would indeed be simpler to just require board members buy their  
seat with a gold membership ;)

> * Supporting and promoting a $20-50 paid membership level.

To what benefit?  Are paid members "above" charter members in some  
way?  What's the point of being a charter member?  What's the point of  
being a member period?  We need to think about turning around the  
problem of "we need money" into a solution of "here's what paying into  
OSGeo gets you".  The most consistent place we do that is in the  
workshops and the conference, but we seem to have an aversion to  
making that our major fundraising venture.  Paul and Jeff's foray into  
trying to brand OSGeo training/workshops was also met with much  
trepidation and handwringing, which in the end submarined it.  Paul  
now does training for OpenGeo (/me waves).

> * Looking at my typically underused travel budget.
> * Designating a portion of any FOSS4G profits (several directors are  
> often part of ensuring FOSS4G is a success)

I wonder if we could explore some sort of profit split with the local  
committee that runs the FOSS4G event.  Also, change the selection  
criteria to include potential profitability.  If there are cries for  
the unfairness of that, let those crying attempt to run an OSGeo-
branded conference locally at a profit.  I'm very happy Sydney eeked  
over the line this year, but that choice provided enough risk to  
seriously damage OSGeo as an organization (if we ended up at a  
$50-100k loss -- maybe I'm wrong and there was no risk of that).  If  
running the conference provides that much risk to our organization, we  
should do what we can to ensure we get some of the upside to make our  
organization stronger.

The conference and the workshops provide real value for individuals  
whereas we must justify our existence and practically beg for  
corporate sponsorships that have ethereal value to giant  
organizations.  Pay workshop presenters way, pay for facilities, and  
provide real value.  Meet where it is easy for lots of people to reach  
(I doubt this is in the US, either).  The terrible economics make open  
source more attractive, not less.  That means potentially more  
attention for our workshops and presentations.  We shouldn't have to  
beg when we can provide real value.

Howard
_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Frank Warmerdam]

Howard Butler wrote:
> I wonder if we could explore some sort of profit split with the local
> committee that runs the FOSS4G event.

Howard,

To be clear, we have a profit splitting arrangement with the local
committee and the split is that we (OSGeo) get 100% of the profit.

We have put in place guidelines on a desired profit level for FOSS4G and
if we pick lucrative venues we can expect 20-40K profit from FOSS4G.  In
2007 I believe we netted 100K due to the exemplary operation by Paul and
others and a good location.

This year FOSS4G was in a difficult venue (far from most likely attendies)
and we had an exceptionally rocky financial environment so I'm pleased we
still roughly broke even.

I don't really *like* aiming to make money off FOSS4G, but is our policy
and we are doing it.  Arguable we could take further steps, including more
support for those giving workshops and possibly higher workshop prices.  But
I am hesitant to think that we could effectively evolve into a training
as a service organization as our primary income.

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Markus Neteler]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Tyler Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> How many directors will be attending any kind of code sprint this year - for
>> example in US/Canada or Europe or elsewhere where there may be >1 directors
>> present?
>
> The C tribe sprint will be in New York this year (pending a little
> more planning) in February'ish. Hopefully we can get a number of our
> board members there?

Paul,

is there any online info about the planned C tribe sprint?

/me darkly remembers that his favourite GIS is written in C

Markus
_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Paul Ramsey]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Tyler Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> How many directors will be attending any kind of code sprint this year - for
>>> example in US/Canada or Europe or elsewhere where there may be >1 directors
>>> present?
>>
>> The C tribe sprint will be in New York this year (pending a little
>> more planning) in February'ish. Hopefully we can get a number of our
>> board members there?
>
> Paul,
>
> is there any online info about the planned C tribe sprint?
>
> /me darkly remembers that his favourite GIS is written in C

Hi Markus,

Not yet, so far I have arranged a great room in the OpenGeo galactic
headquarters and network access. Now I'm seeing what dates give us the
best hotel rates, at that point I'll start wiki-fying it.

Well, heck, there's no reason no to wikify what I know already. :)
Thanks for the prod,

Paul
_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Howard Butler]

On Nov 6, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Frank Warmerdam wrote:

> Howard Butler wrote:
>> I wonder if we could explore some sort of profit split with the  
>> local committee that runs the FOSS4G event.
>
> Howard,
>
> To be clear, we have a profit splitting arrangement with the local
> committee and the split is that we (OSGeo) get 100% of the profit.

That's a bit of a disincentive for the local committee to work too  
hard to ensure a profit (ie, work for OSGeo for free).

>
> We have put in place guidelines on a desired profit level for FOSS4G  
> and
> if we pick lucrative venues we can expect 20-40K profit from  
> FOSS4G.  In
> 2007 I believe we netted 100K due to the exemplary operation by Paul  
> and
> others and a good location.
>

'eeked' was a mischaracterization of Sydney, especially considering  
the conditions, but my point about OSGeo's risk is still valid.  If  
the conference has the ability to sink us, I think we should be more  
explicit about doing what we can to ensure we get some more upside.

>
> I don't really *like* aiming to make money off FOSS4G, but is our  
> policy
> and we are doing it.  Arguable we could take further steps,  
> including more
> support for those giving workshops and possibly higher workshop  
> prices.  But
> I am hesitant to think that we could effectively evolve into a  
> training
> as a service organization as our primary income.

As opposed to begging as our primary income? ;)  I'm not comfortable  
in saying we've proven we're consistently successful at doing that if  
we take away the profits past conferences have allowed us to float on.




_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Paul Ramsey]

OK, wiki entry started...

http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/New_York_Code_Sprint_2010


On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Tyler Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How many directors will be attending any kind of code sprint this year - for
>>>> example in US/Canada or Europe or elsewhere where there may be >1 directors
>>>> present?
>>>
>>> The C tribe sprint will be in New York this year (pending a little
>>> more planning) in February'ish. Hopefully we can get a number of our
>>> board members there?
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> is there any online info about the planned C tribe sprint?
>>
>> /me darkly remembers that his favourite GIS is written in C
>
> Hi Markus,
>
> Not yet, so far I have arranged a great room in the OpenGeo galactic
> headquarters and network access. Now I'm seeing what dates give us the
> best hotel rates, at that point I'll start wiki-fying it.
>
> Well, heck, there's no reason no to wikify what I know already. :)
> Thanks for the prod,
>
> Paul
>

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[ravivundavalli]

F2F meeting
Costs: May not be for all but for some like me, even attending FOSS4G Sydney would have cost the equivalent of arranging a (free) 3-day workshop for 30 interested students/GIS teachers along with hospitality expenses and travel for resource-persons. The philosophy of OSGeo translating into priorities will make a local chapter spend their meager resources in organising awareness.

Ravi Kumar



--- On Fri, 6/11/09, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Board] Re: F2F meeting
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Friday, 6 November, 2009, 8:11 PM
> Howard,
> thanks for making a clear statement to a constraint that we
> have. But I am
> inclined to say that we should then remove that constraint
> instead of not
> meeting. I also want to have my expenses paid for and I
> think this is
> something that OSGeo must be able to do in the future if it
> wants to
> continue to prosper and grow. Otherwise we can make it a
> requirement that
> future Directors must be capable and willing to afford a
> meeting on their
> own expense.
>
> I have started several attempts at getting together at
> least a list of
> potential sponsors and to then nudge some board members
> into actually
> contacting them and to report of their success but so far
> to no avail.
>
> Does anybody have a better suggestion at how to solve this
> problem? My
> guess is that nothing much will happen if we just sit
> around and wait.
> Another example: "Somebody" ought to get into contact with
> Autodesk and
> make sure that they stay at the 50k level. They would be
> paying 150k every
> year for their CollabNet environment if we would not have
> prepared a cosy
> nest for them. Or did I miss something along the way? Its
> just a deal and
> someone will have to dicker.
>
> It's just that I am not going to do it all on my own
> because I simply
> cannot, I am as busy as most of us. And probably I am not
> even very good
> at it (too blunt, impatient, etc... :-)
>
> Best regards,
> Arnulf.
>
>
> On Fri, November 6, 2009 13:51, Howard Butler wrote:
> >
>
> > On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
> >> for two days.
> >
> > I don't see how this is remotely possible given our
> budgetary
> > constraints.  There's no way I can afford footing
> a F2F board meeting out
> > of pocket right now, and OSGeo has never been in a
> position of being able
> > to support board member's travel to F2F meetings.
> >
> > We should see if we can procure reliable low-cost
> tele/video
> > conferencing before putting the squeeze on members to
> spend a day of travel
> > on each side of a two day F2F.  Our meeting
> situation (IRC + free skype)
> > is awful.
> >
> > Howard
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Arnulf Christl
> President OSGeo
> http://www.osgeo.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>

      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Jeroen Ticheler - GeoCat]

Hi Ravi,
Good point, and one you will have to repeat often for it to be heard  
and understood! Even while I lived many years in Africa and visited  
many countries around the world I notice I tend to sometimes forget  
about these differences. It indeed even calls for a specific  
sponsoring component to OSGeo that is specifically targeted at  
supporting people from low income countries. We should get our act  
together and target agencies that would be willing to support this  
directly. I will do so to a number where I have contacts if others  
feel that is worthwhile. These funds could be used to support local  
events, but I would also like to see them support travel to allow for  
f2f meetings and such.
Kind regards,
Jeroen

On Nov 7, 2009, at 7:49 AM, Ravi wrote:

> F2F meeting
> Costs: May not be for all but for some like me, even attending  
> FOSS4G Sydney would have cost the equivalent of arranging a (free) 3-
> day workshop for 30 interested students/GIS teachers along with  
> hospitality expenses and travel for resource-persons. The philosophy  
> of OSGeo translating into priorities will make a local chapter spend  
> their meager resources in organising awareness.
>
> Ravi Kumar
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 6/11/09, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [Board] Re: F2F meeting
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Friday, 6 November, 2009, 8:11 PM
>> Howard,
>> thanks for making a clear statement to a constraint that we
>> have. But I am
>> inclined to say that we should then remove that constraint
>> instead of not
>> meeting. I also want to have my expenses paid for and I
>> think this is
>> something that OSGeo must be able to do in the future if it
>> wants to
>> continue to prosper and grow. Otherwise we can make it a
>> requirement that
>> future Directors must be capable and willing to afford a
>> meeting on their
>> own expense.
>>
>> I have started several attempts at getting together at
>> least a list of
>> potential sponsors and to then nudge some board members
>> into actually
>> contacting them and to report of their success but so far
>> to no avail.
>>
>> Does anybody have a better suggestion at how to solve this
>> problem? My
>> guess is that nothing much will happen if we just sit
>> around and wait.
>> Another example: "Somebody" ought to get into contact with
>> Autodesk and
>> make sure that they stay at the 50k level. They would be
>> paying 150k every
>> year for their CollabNet environment if we would not have
>> prepared a cosy
>> nest for them. Or did I miss something along the way? Its
>> just a deal and
>> someone will have to dicker.
>>
>> It's just that I am not going to do it all on my own
>> because I simply
>> cannot, I am as busy as most of us. And probably I am not
>> even very good
>> at it (too blunt, impatient, etc... :-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Arnulf.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, November 6, 2009 13:51, Howard Butler wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
>>>> for two days.
>>>
>>> I don't see how this is remotely possible given our
>> budgetary
>>> constraints.  There's no way I can afford footing
>> a F2F board meeting out
>>> of pocket right now, and OSGeo has never been in a
>> position of being able
>>> to support board member's travel to F2F meetings.
>>>
>>> We should see if we can procure reliable low-cost
>> tele/video
>>> conferencing before putting the squeeze on members to
>> spend a day of travel
>>> on each side of a two day F2F.  Our meeting
>> situation (IRC + free skype)
>>> is awful.
>>>
>>> Howard
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Arnulf Christl
>> President OSGeo
>> http://www.osgeo.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Board mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>>
>
>
>      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo!  
> Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Ari Jolma-2]

Good point Jeroen!

As a result of this discussion, I'm using my contacts to try to get
support from national sources and then international agencies. My
feeling is that when it comes to the the international agencies (UN
family for example) it is in the first place just a question of raising
the awareness. By support I mean OSGeo sponsorship and travel grants for
people from low-income countries to come to FOSS4G.

In general, it seems to me that the most natural idea is that the board
should meet at the yearly FOSS4G. It should be kind of requirement of
being in the board. If a board member can't arrange the travel funds him
or herself then the foundation should help. In my case it is usually
more a question of feeling the obligation, i.e., if there was an order
from the president, I'd come ;)

Cheers,

Ari

Jeroen Ticheler kirjoitti:

> Hi Ravi,
> Good point, and one you will have to repeat often for it to be heard
> and understood! Even while I lived many years in Africa and visited
> many countries around the world I notice I tend to sometimes forget
> about these differences. It indeed even calls for a specific
> sponsoring component to OSGeo that is specifically targeted at
> supporting people from low income countries. We should get our act
> together and target agencies that would be willing to support this
> directly. I will do so to a number where I have contacts if others
> feel that is worthwhile. These funds could be used to support local
> events, but I would also like to see them support travel to allow for
> f2f meetings and such.
> Kind regards,
> Jeroen
>
> On Nov 7, 2009, at 7:49 AM, Ravi wrote:
>
>> F2F meeting
>> Costs: May not be for all but for some like me, even attending FOSS4G
>> Sydney would have cost the equivalent of arranging a (free) 3-day
>> workshop for 30 interested students/GIS teachers along with
>> hospitality expenses and travel for resource-persons. The philosophy
>> of OSGeo translating into priorities will make a local chapter spend
>> their meager resources in organising awareness.
>>
>> Ravi Kumar
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 6/11/09, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: [Board] Re: F2F meeting
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Date: Friday, 6 November, 2009, 8:11 PM
>>> Howard,
>>> thanks for making a clear statement to a constraint that we
>>> have. But I am
>>> inclined to say that we should then remove that constraint
>>> instead of not
>>> meeting. I also want to have my expenses paid for and I
>>> think this is
>>> something that OSGeo must be able to do in the future if it
>>> wants to
>>> continue to prosper and grow. Otherwise we can make it a
>>> requirement that
>>> future Directors must be capable and willing to afford a
>>> meeting on their
>>> own expense.
>>>
>>> I have started several attempts at getting together at
>>> least a list of
>>> potential sponsors and to then nudge some board members
>>> into actually
>>> contacting them and to report of their success but so far
>>> to no avail.
>>>
>>> Does anybody have a better suggestion at how to solve this
>>> problem? My
>>> guess is that nothing much will happen if we just sit
>>> around and wait.
>>> Another example: "Somebody" ought to get into contact with
>>> Autodesk and
>>> make sure that they stay at the 50k level. They would be
>>> paying 150k every
>>> year for their CollabNet environment if we would not have
>>> prepared a cosy
>>> nest for them. Or did I miss something along the way? Its
>>> just a deal and
>>> someone will have to dicker.
>>>
>>> It's just that I am not going to do it all on my own
>>> because I simply
>>> cannot, I am as busy as most of us. And probably I am not
>>> even very good
>>> at it (too blunt, impatient, etc... :-)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Arnulf.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, November 6, 2009 13:51, Howard Butler wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
>>>>> for two days.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see how this is remotely possible given our
>>> budgetary
>>>> constraints.  There's no way I can afford footing
>>> a F2F board meeting out
>>>> of pocket right now, and OSGeo has never been in a
>>> position of being able
>>>> to support board member's travel to F2F meetings.
>>>>
>>>> We should see if we can procure reliable low-cost
>>> tele/video
>>>> conferencing before putting the squeeze on members to
>>> spend a day of travel
>>>> on each side of a two day F2F.  Our meeting
>>> situation (IRC + free skype)
>>>> is awful.
>>>>
>>>> Howard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arnulf Christl
>>> President OSGeo
>>> http://www.osgeo.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Board mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>>>
>>
>>
>>      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo!
>> Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Board mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

--
Prof. Ari Jolma
Environmental Management Information Technology
Teknillinen Korkeakoulu / Helsinki University of Technology
tel: [phone] address: POBox 5300, 02015 TKK, Finland
Email: ari.jolma at tkk.fi URL: http://geoinformatics.tkk.fi

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)-2]

> F2F meeting
> Costs: May not be for all but for some like me, even attending FOSS4G
> Sydney would have cost the equivalent of arranging a (free) 3-day workshop
> for 30 interested students/GIS teachers along with hospitality expenses
> and travel for resource-persons. The philosophy of OSGeo translating into
> priorities will make a local chapter spend their meager resources in
> organising awareness.
>
> Ravi Kumar

Ravi,
I can follow you for the first part. I do not understand "The philosophy
of OSGeo translating into priorities will make a local chapter spend their
meager resources in organising awareness." though. Can you please explain?

Best regards,

> --- On Fri, 6/11/09, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [Board] Re: F2F meeting
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Friday, 6 November, 2009, 8:11 PM
>> Howard,
>> thanks for making a clear statement to a constraint that we
>> have. But I am
>> inclined to say that we should then remove that constraint
>> instead of not
>> meeting. I also want to have my expenses paid for and I
>> think this is
>> something that OSGeo must be able to do in the future if it
>> wants to
>> continue to prosper and grow. Otherwise we can make it a
>> requirement that
>> future Directors must be capable and willing to afford a
>> meeting on their
>> own expense.
>>
>> I have started several attempts at getting together at
>> least a list of
>> potential sponsors and to then nudge some board members
>> into actually
>> contacting them and to report of their success but so far
>> to no avail.
>>
>> Does anybody have a better suggestion at how to solve this
>> problem? My
>> guess is that nothing much will happen if we just sit
>> around and wait.
>> Another example: "Somebody" ought to get into contact with
>> Autodesk and
>> make sure that they stay at the 50k level. They would be
>> paying 150k every
>> year for their CollabNet environment if we would not have
>> prepared a cosy
>> nest for them. Or did I miss something along the way? Its
>> just a deal and
>> someone will have to dicker.
>>
>> It's just that I am not going to do it all on my own
>> because I simply
>> cannot, I am as busy as most of us. And probably I am not
>> even very good
>> at it (too blunt, impatient, etc... :-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Arnulf.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, November 6, 2009 13:51, Howard Butler wrote:
>> >
>>
>> > On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
>> >> for two days.
>> >
>> > I don't see how this is remotely possible given our
>> budgetary
>> > constraints.  There's no way I can afford footing
>> a F2F board meeting out
>> > of pocket right now, and OSGeo has never been in a
>> position of being able
>> > to support board member's travel to F2F meetings.
>> >
>> > We should see if we can procure reliable low-cost
>> tele/video
>> > conferencing before putting the squeeze on members to
>> spend a day of travel
>> > on each side of a two day F2F.  Our meeting
>> situation (IRC + free skype)
>> > is awful.
>> >
>> > Howard
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Arnulf Christl
>> President OSGeo
>> http://www.osgeo.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Board mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>>
>
>
>       The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
> http://in.yahoo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>

--
Arnulf Christl

Exploring Space, Time and Mind
http://arnulf.us/

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)-2]

> Good point Jeroen!
>
> As a result of this discussion, I'm using my contacts to try to get
> support from national sources and then international agencies. My
> feeling is that when it comes to the the international agencies (UN
> family for example) it is in the first place just a question of raising
> the awareness. By support I mean OSGeo sponsorship and travel grants for
> people from low-income countries to come to FOSS4G.
>
> In general, it seems to me that the most natural idea is that the board
> should meet at the yearly FOSS4G. It should be kind of requirement of
> being in the board. If a board member can't arrange the travel funds him
> or herself then the foundation should help. In my case it is usually
> more a question of feeling the obligation, i.e., if there was an order
> from the president, I'd come ;)

Order from the president: All directors must come to Barcelona. Please
plan accordingly.

Kanpai,
Arnulf.

http://www.abcb.com/ency/k/kanpai.wav

> Cheers,
>
> Ari
>
> Jeroen Ticheler kirjoitti:
>> Hi Ravi,
>> Good point, and one you will have to repeat often for it to be heard
>> and understood! Even while I lived many years in Africa and visited
>> many countries around the world I notice I tend to sometimes forget
>> about these differences. It indeed even calls for a specific
>> sponsoring component to OSGeo that is specifically targeted at
>> supporting people from low income countries. We should get our act
>> together and target agencies that would be willing to support this
>> directly. I will do so to a number where I have contacts if others
>> feel that is worthwhile. These funds could be used to support local
>> events, but I would also like to see them support travel to allow for
>> f2f meetings and such.
>> Kind regards,
>> Jeroen
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2009, at 7:49 AM, Ravi wrote:
>>
>>> F2F meeting
>>> Costs: May not be for all but for some like me, even attending FOSS4G
>>> Sydney would have cost the equivalent of arranging a (free) 3-day
>>> workshop for 30 interested students/GIS teachers along with
>>> hospitality expenses and travel for resource-persons. The philosophy
>>> of OSGeo translating into priorities will make a local chapter spend
>>> their meager resources in organising awareness.
>>>
>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 6/11/09, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: [Board] Re: F2F meeting
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Date: Friday, 6 November, 2009, 8:11 PM
>>>> Howard,
>>>> thanks for making a clear statement to a constraint that we
>>>> have. But I am
>>>> inclined to say that we should then remove that constraint
>>>> instead of not
>>>> meeting. I also want to have my expenses paid for and I
>>>> think this is
>>>> something that OSGeo must be able to do in the future if it
>>>> wants to
>>>> continue to prosper and grow. Otherwise we can make it a
>>>> requirement that
>>>> future Directors must be capable and willing to afford a
>>>> meeting on their
>>>> own expense.
>>>>
>>>> I have started several attempts at getting together at
>>>> least a list of
>>>> potential sponsors and to then nudge some board members
>>>> into actually
>>>> contacting them and to report of their success but so far
>>>> to no avail.
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody have a better suggestion at how to solve this
>>>> problem? My
>>>> guess is that nothing much will happen if we just sit
>>>> around and wait.
>>>> Another example: "Somebody" ought to get into contact with
>>>> Autodesk and
>>>> make sure that they stay at the 50k level. They would be
>>>> paying 150k every
>>>> year for their CollabNet environment if we would not have
>>>> prepared a cosy
>>>> nest for them. Or did I miss something along the way? Its
>>>> just a deal and
>>>> someone will have to dicker.
>>>>
>>>> It's just that I am not going to do it all on my own
>>>> because I simply
>>>> cannot, I am as busy as most of us. And probably I am not
>>>> even very good
>>>> at it (too blunt, impatient, etc... :-)
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Arnulf.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, November 6, 2009 13:51, Howard Butler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Arnulf Christl (OSGeo)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I really mean to get all of us meet in one place
>>>>>> for two days.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see how this is remotely possible given our
>>>> budgetary
>>>>> constraints.  There's no way I can afford footing
>>>> a F2F board meeting out
>>>>> of pocket right now, and OSGeo has never been in a
>>>> position of being able
>>>>> to support board member's travel to F2F meetings.
>>>>>
>>>>> We should see if we can procure reliable low-cost
>>>> tele/video
>>>>> conferencing before putting the squeeze on members to
>>>> spend a day of travel
>>>>> on each side of a two day F2F.  Our meeting
>>>> situation (IRC + free skype)
>>>>> is awful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Howard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Arnulf Christl
>>>> President OSGeo
>>>> http://www.osgeo.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Board mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo!
>>> Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Board mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Board mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>
>
> --
> Prof. Ari Jolma
> Environmental Management Information Technology
> Teknillinen Korkeakoulu / Helsinki University of Technology
> tel: [phone] address: POBox 5300, 02015 TKK, Finland
> Email: ari.jolma at tkk.fi URL: http://geoinformatics.tkk.fi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>

--
Arnulf Christl
President OSGeo
http://www.osgeo.org

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

[Venkatesh Raghavan]

Hi Arnulf, Ravi,

Arnulf Christl (OSGeo) wrote:
...
> Ravi,
> I can follow you for the first part. I do not understand "The philosophy
> of OSGeo translating into priorities will make a local chapter spend their
> meager resources in organising awareness." though. Can you please explain?

I guess, what Ravi means is the he might as well spend his (OSGeo-India
Chapter's) meager resources to organize an OSGeo awareness campaign
(workshop's, seminars etc.) in India.

Could be worth considering to have an F2F in Ravi's home turf.
That would kill two birds with one stone.

Best regards

Venka
_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board