Fwd: FW: Tell Your Friends!
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Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
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From: Siau, Swee Furn Sent: 28 Julai 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Tell Your Friends! Interview for Fresh Graduates (IT or IT-related studies) 1 & 2 August 2009 Organized by TSMY HR
-- Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
Eric Yeoh-2
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Nice, another ad for helpdesk. How is that going to further our
promotion of FOSS? Thanks for screwing up the future of fresh grads by chucking them in call centres. I am sure that will help them much. I am sorry but you are putting out an ad to support proprietary software in a FOSS mailing list. Do not expect to be treated kindly! On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan<[hidden email]> wrote: > > ________________________________ > From: Siau, Swee Furn > Sent: 28 Julai 2009 1:08 PM > Subject: Tell Your Friends! > > Interview for Fresh Graduates (IT or IT-related studies) > > 1 & 2 August 2009 > > Organized by TSMY HR > > > > > -- > Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
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You are so wrong, Eric.
This fresh grad is being hired as system engineers, trained for 6 month to learn the real thing that enterprise Multinational company use. Sorry if your mindset is still stuck in the small company region, but this advertisement did not say that we are just supporting proprietary software. Our environment is a healthy mix of Open Source software and proprietary software, with Open Source is gaining rapid acceptance by our customer. To state the fact, we have 5000+ Red Hat servers and desktop operational, and more than 200 Suse servers being used daily. This kind of environment need real people that understand real Open Source. And also people that are not skeptic, or keep their mind under the coconut shell. Welcome to the real world, Eric. On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Eric Yeoh <[hidden email]> wrote: Nice, another ad for helpdesk. How is that going to further our -- Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Adli Azaddin
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experienced can apply :D
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan <[hidden email]> wrote: You are so wrong, Eric. _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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IzharFirdaus
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ad or no ad ..
please refrain from using HTML emails pls .. it causes mess in the archive ... Use Plaintext! Please read the mailing list guideline here : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines * No HTML mails please, : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines#No_HTML_Mail.2C_Please On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Adli Azaddin<[hidden email]> wrote: > experienced can apply :D > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> You are so wrong, Eric. >> >> This fresh grad is being hired as system engineers, trained for 6 month to >> learn the real thing that enterprise Multinational company use. >> >> Sorry if your mindset is still stuck in the small company region, but this >> advertisement did not say that we are just supporting proprietary software. >> >> Our environment is a healthy mix of Open Source software and proprietary >> software, with Open Source is gaining rapid acceptance by our customer. >> >> To state the fact, we have 5000+ Red Hat servers and desktop operational, >> and more than 200 Suse servers being used daily. This kind of environment >> need real people that understand real Open Source. And also people that are >> not skeptic, or keep their mind under the coconut shell. >> >> Welcome to the real world, Eric. >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Eric Yeoh <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Nice, another ad for helpdesk. How is that going to further our >>> promotion of FOSS? Thanks for screwing up the future of fresh grads by >>> chucking them in call centres. I am sure that will help them much. >>> >>> I am sorry but you are putting out an ad to support proprietary >>> software in a FOSS mailing list. Do not expect to be treated kindly! >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat >>> Raslan<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> > >>> > ________________________________ >>> > From: Siau, Swee Furn >>> > Sent: 28 Julai 2009 1:08 PM >>> > Subject: Tell Your Friends! >>> > >>> > Interview for Fresh Graduates (IT or IT-related studies) >>> > >>> > 1 & 2 August 2009 >>> > >>> > Organized by TSMY HR >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Fedora-my-list mailing list >>> > [hidden email] >>> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fedora-my-list mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list >> >> >> >> -- >> Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fedora-my-list mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > -- Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail Amano Hikaru 天野晃 「あまの ひかる」 Fedora Malaysia Contributor & Ambassador http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus http://blog.kagesenshi.org 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Eric Yeoh-2
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In reply to this post
by Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
So working in a foreign outsourced company is working in the real
world? Man, you just insulted the majority of the IT workforce in the country. Malaysia is a country which is mostly SMB/SMEs; so those IT guys are in Never-Never Land? What about those who are on their own? They don't do real work but you do? HP also train "system engineers"; care to ask the HP alumni what they think of HP? If you were ever worked for HP you would know what I mean. What about CSC Malaysia? It's an MNC also; CSC Global used to support the US Seventh Fleet. Ask your mates who have worked there. EDS? IBM? ACS? DHL? I started my career with working for and with MNCs for some years and trust me, it's nothing more than taichi central; everyone's hiding behind procedures and KPIs and what not. Just follow the procedure, don't pay attentions to what is not in your JD, even if the server was on fire. Note, that was not cynical, about a year back, just for the heck of it got myself interviewed by two interesting Managers from T-Systems who actually said that I only needed to focus on the task list and procedure I was to be given. Even if I know how to solve a problem but it's not within my JD or task list, I should keep quiet. So keep your head down, do your work and to heck with other departments, is that it? So as long everything look good on paper and nothing seriously is wrong, hey job well done. I have been in this line for many years now and when I was a freelancer I used to be contracted by these IT MNCs to go in to solve problems their talents could not. So those are the "real" trained engineers? The benefits in MNCs are good, no arguments there. We are cheap, that's why they are here, plain and simple. Not because we are more talented. Eric On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan<[hidden email]> wrote: > You are so wrong, Eric. > > This fresh grad is being hired as system engineers, trained for 6 month to > learn the real thing that enterprise Multinational company use. > > Sorry if your mindset is still stuck in the small company region, but this > advertisement did not say that we are just supporting proprietary software. > > Our environment is a healthy mix of Open Source software and proprietary > software, with Open Source is gaining rapid acceptance by our customer. > > To state the fact, we have 5000+ Red Hat servers and desktop operational, > and more than 200 Suse servers being used daily. This kind of environment > need real people that understand real Open Source. And also people that are > not skeptic, or keep their mind under the coconut shell. > > Welcome to the real world, Eric. > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Eric Yeoh <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Nice, another ad for helpdesk. How is that going to further our >> promotion of FOSS? Thanks for screwing up the future of fresh grads by >> chucking them in call centres. I am sure that will help them much. >> >> I am sorry but you are putting out an ad to support proprietary >> software in a FOSS mailing list. Do not expect to be treated kindly! >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat >> Raslan<[hidden email]> wrote: >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Siau, Swee Furn >> > Sent: 28 Julai 2009 1:08 PM >> > Subject: Tell Your Friends! >> > >> > Interview for Fresh Graduates (IT or IT-related studies) >> > >> > 1 & 2 August 2009 >> > >> > Organized by TSMY HR >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Fedora-my-list mailing list >> > [hidden email] >> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fedora-my-list mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > > > > -- > Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Johann Amin
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This seems to be the same case with a majority of our local graduates
that I've had the "pleasure" of handling. Study what the teacher tells you to study (spot exam questions), don't pay attention to what is needed in the market, even if you have to sit around jobless leaching of the government, waiting for that RM10,000. So long as your results look good on paper, hey job well done. I'm still trying to figure out if it is the MNC's that are operating in this manner because of our local talent or our local talent having this mindset because the MNC's operate in this manner. Chicken & egg; Egg & chicken. On 07/29/2009 02:43 AM, Eric Yeoh wrote: > So working in a foreign outsourced company is working in the real > world? Man, you just insulted the majority of the IT workforce in the > country. Malaysia is a country which is mostly SMB/SMEs; so those IT > guys are in Never-Never Land? What about those who are on their own? > They don't do real work but you do? > > HP also train "system engineers"; care to ask the HP alumni what they > think of HP? If you were ever worked for HP you would know what I > mean. What about CSC Malaysia? It's an MNC also; CSC Global used to > support the US Seventh Fleet. Ask your mates who have worked there. > EDS? IBM? ACS? DHL? > > I started my career with working for and with MNCs for some years and > trust me, it's nothing more than taichi central; everyone's hiding > behind procedures and KPIs and what not. Just follow the procedure, > don't pay attentions to what is not in your JD, even if the server was > on fire. > > Note, that was not cynical, about a year back, just for the heck of it > got myself interviewed by two interesting Managers from T-Systems who > actually said that I only needed to focus on the task list and > procedure I was to be given. Even if I know how to solve a problem but > it's not within my JD or task list, I should keep quiet. So keep your > head down, do your work and to heck with other departments, is that > it? > > So as long everything look good on paper and nothing seriously is > wrong, hey job well done. > > I have been in this line for many years now and when I was a > freelancer I used to be contracted by these IT MNCs to go in to solve > problems their talents could not. So those are the "real" trained > engineers? > > The benefits in MNCs are good, no arguments there. > > We are cheap, that's why they are here, plain and simple. Not because > we are more talented. > > Eric > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat > Raslan<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> You are so wrong, Eric. >> >> This fresh grad is being hired as system engineers, trained for 6 month to >> learn the real thing that enterprise Multinational company use. >> >> Sorry if your mindset is still stuck in the small company region, but this >> advertisement did not say that we are just supporting proprietary software. >> >> Our environment is a healthy mix of Open Source software and proprietary >> software, with Open Source is gaining rapid acceptance by our customer. >> >> To state the fact, we have 5000+ Red Hat servers and desktop operational, >> and more than 200 Suse servers being used daily. This kind of environment >> need real people that understand real Open Source. And also people that are >> not skeptic, or keep their mind under the coconut shell. >> >> Welcome to the real world, Eric. >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Eric Yeoh<[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Nice, another ad for helpdesk. How is that going to further our >>> promotion of FOSS? Thanks for screwing up the future of fresh grads by >>> chucking them in call centres. I am sure that will help them much. >>> >>> I am sorry but you are putting out an ad to support proprietary >>> software in a FOSS mailing list. Do not expect to be treated kindly! >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat >>> Raslan<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Siau, Swee Furn >>>> Sent: 28 Julai 2009 1:08 PM >>>> Subject: Tell Your Friends! >>>> >>>> Interview for Fresh Graduates (IT or IT-related studies) >>>> >>>> 1& 2 August 2009 >>>> >>>> Organized by TSMY HR >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Eric Yeoh-2
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The local education system stresses conformity and obdience more than
any thing else. For many years my idea of Mathematics and the general education system boils down to this, follow what the teachers' ways/solving methods, coz if you don't you will not pass the exam, although your methods would have been sound. This blind obedience bred nothing but timid introverted people. Those stidents of history will know that is the best way to stay in power, make your people essentially sheeps to be herded around. But I digress. It was not until I studied under my fine college professors that my eyes were finally opened. They stressed research, encouraged voicing your opinions, discussions and essentially I got an education on research, self-reliance and forming my opinions. The studying part was secondary, as you can easily get hard skills from books. The edurcation part was priceless. The discussion sessions I had with my professors were some of the best hours of my life. Anyone here worked with local lecturers before? I have and I will have to say, save for a few bright sparks, mostly are just sliders. The read from the slides and only know the stuff within the slides. Sad. On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Johann Amin<[hidden email]> wrote: > This seems to be the same case with a majority of our local graduates that > I've had the "pleasure" of handling. Study what the teacher tells you to > study (spot exam questions), don't pay attention to what is needed in the > market, even if you have to sit around jobless leaching of the government, > waiting for that RM10,000. So long as your results look good on paper, hey > job well done. > > I'm still trying to figure out if it is the MNC's that are operating in this > manner because of our local talent or our local talent having this mindset > because the MNC's operate in this manner. Chicken & egg; Egg & chicken. > > > On 07/29/2009 02:43 AM, Eric Yeoh wrote: >> >> So working in a foreign outsourced company is working in the real >> world? Man, you just insulted the majority of the IT workforce in the >> country. Malaysia is a country which is mostly SMB/SMEs; so those IT >> guys are in Never-Never Land? What about those who are on their own? >> They don't do real work but you do? >> >> HP also train "system engineers"; care to ask the HP alumni what they >> think of HP? If you were ever worked for HP you would know what I >> mean. What about CSC Malaysia? It's an MNC also; CSC Global used to >> support the US Seventh Fleet. Ask your mates who have worked there. >> EDS? IBM? ACS? DHL? >> >> I started my career with working for and with MNCs for some years and >> trust me, it's nothing more than taichi central; everyone's hiding >> behind procedures and KPIs and what not. Just follow the procedure, >> don't pay attentions to what is not in your JD, even if the server was >> on fire. >> >> Note, that was not cynical, about a year back, just for the heck of it >> got myself interviewed by two interesting Managers from T-Systems who >> actually said that I only needed to focus on the task list and >> procedure I was to be given. Even if I know how to solve a problem but >> it's not within my JD or task list, I should keep quiet. So keep your >> head down, do your work and to heck with other departments, is that >> it? >> >> So as long everything look good on paper and nothing seriously is >> wrong, hey job well done. >> >> I have been in this line for many years now and when I was a >> freelancer I used to be contracted by these IT MNCs to go in to solve >> problems their talents could not. So those are the "real" trained >> engineers? >> >> The benefits in MNCs are good, no arguments there. >> >> We are cheap, that's why they are here, plain and simple. Not because >> we are more talented. >> >> Eric >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat >> Raslan<[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> >>> You are so wrong, Eric. >>> >>> This fresh grad is being hired as system engineers, trained for 6 month >>> to >>> learn the real thing that enterprise Multinational company use. >>> >>> Sorry if your mindset is still stuck in the small company region, but >>> this >>> advertisement did not say that we are just supporting proprietary >>> software. >>> >>> Our environment is a healthy mix of Open Source software and proprietary >>> software, with Open Source is gaining rapid acceptance by our customer. >>> >>> To state the fact, we have 5000+ Red Hat servers and desktop operational, >>> and more than 200 Suse servers being used daily. This kind of environment >>> need real people that understand real Open Source. And also people that >>> are >>> not skeptic, or keep their mind under the coconut shell. >>> >>> Welcome to the real world, Eric. >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Eric Yeoh<[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Nice, another ad for helpdesk. How is that going to further our >>>> promotion of FOSS? Thanks for screwing up the future of fresh grads by >>>> chucking them in call centres. I am sure that will help them much. >>>> >>>> I am sorry but you are putting out an ad to support proprietary >>>> software in a FOSS mailing list. Do not expect to be treated kindly! >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Sharuzzaman Ahmat >>>> Raslan<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: Siau, Swee Furn >>>>> Sent: 28 Julai 2009 1:08 PM >>>>> Subject: Tell Your Friends! >>>>> >>>>> Interview for Fresh Graduates (IT or IT-related studies) >>>>> >>>>> 1& 2 August 2009 >>>>> >>>>> Organized by TSMY HR >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Harisfazillah Jamel-2
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In reply to this post
by Eric Yeoh-2
Eric,
You pick a wrong person to fight with. Numbers of us including Sharuzzaman been through for what you had written. That include freelancing for many years, joining SMB and many more things. Sharuzzaman has the right to write what he is saying because he being through that. I had work with ICT banking sector for 13 years. You tell me of any shit that I had been through. By doing all the bullshit of paper works, audit, ISO and many procudures do you think I like it? Do you like to be audit by two teams of audit every month? Every servers and jobs that you do will be check and any different in your reports will be questions and report to higher level. What I want to tell you is this. If we want our young generation to know and fell what, how and where to get all the exposure let them join the big companies and MNC. Let them know office politics, tendang terajang and know new things that SMB could not give. at the end of the day, they will gain knowledge that our country need.... Rather than making noise and keep blaming others lets fix the problems. On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 2:43 AM, Eric Yeoh<[hidden email]> wrote: > So working in a foreign outsourced company is working in the real > world? Man, you just insulted the majority of the IT workforce in the > country. Malaysia is a country which is mostly SMB/SMEs; so those IT > guys are in Never-Never Land? What about those who are on their own? > They don't do real work but you do? > _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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IzharFirdaus
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On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Harisfazillah
Jamel<[hidden email]> wrote: [..] > Let them know > office politics, tendang terajang and know new things > that SMB could not give. > > at the end of the day, they will gain knowledge > that our country need.... I disagree. office politics is good? how does an environment where people are trying hard to keep everyone behind them is defined as good?. Politics: "social relations involving intrigue to gain authority or power;" - princeton dictionary "oh this guy is trying to be better than me, make life miserable for him!!" "this new guy is doing all these tech stuff .. pfft.. show off!! .. make life miserable for him!!!" "this new guy looks like a threat to our position.. make life miserable for him!!" those are basically the office politics that i've heard and seen .. I know i dont want to be in such environment .. as it kills motivation .. and if i hang around there too long .. i'll be infected by the stupidity too .. its sad to see many people, come into companies with great ideals, great visions, but end up demotivated, deteriorated, at the end of the day. young people should go for something which least restrict their movements, so that they does not kill their own mind ... go for adventures, learn the hard way through failures (not through people preventing your movements) .. and fight to survive .. gain experience on doing something different, something risky, while still young, as once you get old, you wont have chances to do such thing anymore ... especially those who thinks they want to have family, once you got a family, i assure you, you'll be shit afraid of taking such risks... > > Rather than making noise and keep blaming others > lets fix the problems. > one of the fix i see currently, stop going to old companies which can't no longer change themselves, go to young companies, which you can shape , and try your best to shape the young company culture, to value creativity and flexibilty Red Hat can do it, Google can do it .. why not we? .. in Inigo, thats our goal :D .. -- Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail Amano Hikaru 天野晃 「あまの ひかる」 Fedora Malaysia Contributor & Ambassador http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus http://blog.kagesenshi.org 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Eric Yeoh-2
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In reply to this post
by Harisfazillah Jamel-2
Haris,
I am attacking the issue not the man. Yes, he has every right to voice his opinions and so can I. But I strongly disagree with what he meant by "the real world". So after being through all the unfortunate events you have gone through at the bank, you would still think it is a good idea to demoralise youngsters so that they can learn "about working in the real world"? And no; to answer your questions, I will not like the audit and the reporting parts, but of course you are already aware of my eventual answer. Who would? Look, you know and I know the many silly things that happens within MNCs. After all you have been through it. As you well said, I am merely stating my point as much as your mate was. And this hostility? I am unsure where it comes from. I make noise? Hmmm...interesting. Eric On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Harisfazillah Jamel<[hidden email]> wrote: > Eric, > > You pick a wrong person to fight with. > > Numbers of us including Sharuzzaman been through for what you had > written. That include freelancing > for many years, joining SMB and many more things. > > Sharuzzaman has the right to write what he is saying > because he being through that. > > I had work with ICT banking sector for 13 years. > You tell me of any shit that I had been through. > > By doing all the bullshit of paper works, audit, > ISO and many procudures do you think I like it? > > Do you like to be audit by two teams of audit every > month? > > Every servers and jobs that you do will be check > and any different in your reports will be questions > and report to higher level. > > What I want to tell you is this. If we want our > young generation to know and fell what, how and > where to get all the exposure let them join > the big companies and MNC. Let them know > office politics, tendang terajang and know new things > that SMB could not give. > > at the end of the day, they will gain knowledge > that our country need.... > > Rather than making noise and keep blaming others > lets fix the problems. > > > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 2:43 AM, Eric Yeoh<[hidden email]> wrote: >> So working in a foreign outsourced company is working in the real >> world? Man, you just insulted the majority of the IT workforce in the >> country. Malaysia is a country which is mostly SMB/SMEs; so those IT >> guys are in Never-Never Land? What about those who are on their own? >> They don't do real work but you do? >> > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Mohd Hanif
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Eric,
Following up on your banter towards Zaman's post earlier, I was wondering, what is your point really? You said: *Nice, another ad for helpdesk. How is that going to further our promotion of FOSS?* First and foremost, what is wrong with working as a Helpdesk? Can you not promote FOSS while at the same time working as a Helpdesk? Even a cook can promote FOSS(If they really want to, of course) I, myself have 2-3 friends who used to be helpdesk a while ago are now working as a System Engineer in MNC's company and even one of them are starting his own IT-related business. and ... After all, we need to start somewhere do we?* *You said:* I am sorry but you are putting out an ad to support proprietary software in a FOSS mailing list. Do not expect to be treated kindly!* He was merely advertising a vacancy in his company where he works, I did not see any logos or words that he said supporting proprietary software as you mentioned? Yes we are promoting FOSS, but, we do it the healthy way. I don't want to slap my friend just because he uses Microsoft office instead of Open office. * * 2009/7/31 Eric Yeoh <[hidden email]> > Haris, > > I am attacking the issue not the man. Yes, he has every right to voice > his opinions and so can I. But I strongly disagree with what he meant > by "the real world". > > So after being through all the unfortunate events you have gone > through at the bank, you would still think it is a good idea to > demoralise youngsters so that they can learn "about working in the > real world"? And no; to answer your questions, I will not like the > audit and the reporting parts, but of course you are already aware of > my eventual answer. Who would? > > Look, you know and I know the many silly things that happens within > MNCs. After all you have been through it. As you well said, I am > merely stating my point as much as your mate was. > > And this hostility? I am unsure where it comes from. I make noise? > > Hmmm...interesting. > > Eric > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Harisfazillah > Jamel<[hidden email]> wrote: > > Eric, > > > > You pick a wrong person to fight with. > > > > Numbers of us including Sharuzzaman been through for what you had > > written. That include freelancing > > for many years, joining SMB and many more things. > > > > Sharuzzaman has the right to write what he is saying > > because he being through that. > > > > I had work with ICT banking sector for 13 years. > > You tell me of any shit that I had been through. > > > > By doing all the bullshit of paper works, audit, > > ISO and many procudures do you think I like it? > > > > Do you like to be audit by two teams of audit every > > month? > > > > Every servers and jobs that you do will be check > > and any different in your reports will be questions > > and report to higher level. > > > > What I want to tell you is this. If we want our > > young generation to know and fell what, how and > > where to get all the exposure let them join > > the big companies and MNC. Let them know > > office politics, tendang terajang and know new things > > that SMB could not give. > > > > at the end of the day, they will gain knowledge > > that our country need.... > > > > Rather than making noise and keep blaming others > > lets fix the problems. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 2:43 AM, Eric Yeoh<[hidden email]> > wrote: > >> So working in a foreign outsourced company is working in the real > >> world? Man, you just insulted the majority of the IT workforce in the > >> country. Malaysia is a country which is mostly SMB/SMEs; so those IT > >> guys are in Never-Never Land? What about those who are on their own? > >> They don't do real work but you do? > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fedora-my-list mailing list > > [hidden email] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Adli Azaddin
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In reply to this post
by IzharFirdaus
izhar, that is real life working environment... soon you'll know
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:31 PM, Izhar Firdaus <[hidden email]>wrote: > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Harisfazillah > Jamel<[hidden email]> wrote: > [..] > > Let them know > > office politics, tendang terajang and know new things > > that SMB could not give. > > > > at the end of the day, they will gain knowledge > > that our country need.... > > I disagree. > > office politics is good? how does an environment where people are > trying hard to keep everyone behind them is defined as good?. > > Politics: "social relations involving intrigue to gain authority or > power;" - princeton dictionary > > "oh this guy is trying to be better than me, make life miserable for > him!!" > "this new guy is doing all these tech stuff .. pfft.. show off!! .. > make life miserable for him!!!" > "this new guy looks like a threat to our position.. make life > miserable for him!!" > > those are basically the office politics that i've heard and seen .. I > know i dont want to be in such environment .. as it kills motivation > .. and if i hang around there too long .. i'll be infected by the > stupidity too .. its sad to see many people, come into companies with > great ideals, great visions, but end up demotivated, deteriorated, at > the end of the day. > > young people should go for something which least restrict their > movements, so that they does not kill their own mind ... go for > adventures, learn the hard way through failures (not through people > preventing your movements) .. and fight to survive .. gain experience > on doing something different, something risky, while still young, as > once you get old, you wont have chances to do such thing anymore ... > especially those who thinks they want to have family, once you got a > family, i assure you, you'll be shit afraid of taking such risks... > > > > > > Rather than making noise and keep blaming others > > lets fix the problems. > > > > one of the fix i see currently, > > stop going to old companies which can't no longer change themselves, > go to young companies, which you can shape , and try your best to > shape the young company culture, to value creativity and flexibilty > > Red Hat can do it, Google can do it .. why not we? .. in Inigo, thats > our goal :D .. > > -- > Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail > Amano Hikaru 天野晃 「あまの ひかる」 > Fedora Malaysia Contributor & Ambassador > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus > http://blog.kagesenshi.org > 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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IzharFirdaus
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On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Adli Azaddin<[hidden email]> wrote:
> izhar, that is real life working environment... soon you'll know a real life at this point of time .. i'll take over the world and change it .... muahahahahahahah ... > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:31 PM, Izhar Firdaus <[hidden email]>wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Harisfazillah >> Jamel<[hidden email]> wrote: >> [..] >> > Let them know >> > office politics, tendang terajang and know new things >> > that SMB could not give. >> > >> > at the end of the day, they will gain knowledge >> > that our country need.... >> >> I disagree. >> >> office politics is good? how does an environment where people are >> trying hard to keep everyone behind them is defined as good?. >> >> Politics: "social relations involving intrigue to gain authority or >> power;" - princeton dictionary >> >> "oh this guy is trying to be better than me, make life miserable for >> him!!" >> "this new guy is doing all these tech stuff .. pfft.. show off!! .. >> make life miserable for him!!!" >> "this new guy looks like a threat to our position.. make life >> miserable for him!!" >> >> those are basically the office politics that i've heard and seen .. I >> know i dont want to be in such environment .. as it kills motivation >> .. and if i hang around there too long .. i'll be infected by the >> stupidity too .. its sad to see many people, come into companies with >> great ideals, great visions, but end up demotivated, deteriorated, at >> the end of the day. >> >> young people should go for something which least restrict their >> movements, so that they does not kill their own mind ... go for >> adventures, learn the hard way through failures (not through people >> preventing your movements) .. and fight to survive .. gain experience >> on doing something different, something risky, while still young, as >> once you get old, you wont have chances to do such thing anymore ... >> especially those who thinks they want to have family, once you got a >> family, i assure you, you'll be shit afraid of taking such risks... >> >> >> > >> > Rather than making noise and keep blaming others >> > lets fix the problems. >> > >> >> one of the fix i see currently, >> >> stop going to old companies which can't no longer change themselves, >> go to young companies, which you can shape , and try your best to >> shape the young company culture, to value creativity and flexibilty >> >> Red Hat can do it, Google can do it .. why not we? .. in Inigo, thats >> our goal :D .. >> >> -- >> Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail >> Amano Hikaru 天野晃 「あまの ひかる」 >> Fedora Malaysia Contributor & Ambassador >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus >> http://blog.kagesenshi.org >> 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fedora-my-list mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list >> > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > -- Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail Amano Hikaru 天野晃 「あまの ひかる」 Fedora Malaysia Contributor & Ambassador http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus http://blog.kagesenshi.org 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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IzharFirdaus
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On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Izhar Firdaus<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Adli Azaddin<[hidden email]> wrote: >> izhar, that is real life working environment... soon you'll know your statement is a good example of a young person entered an industry with great ideals, great goals to improve things .. but end up deteriorated and demotivated, and started accepting something wrong, as right, because they have given up trying to make a change .. due to everybody keep on trying to kill each other in order to keep themselves in higher political positions than others ... what stopping mankinf from being further developed to a galactic society is not because we does not have the capability to do so .. but its due to each of us are preventing each other from moving forward .. > > a real life at this point of time .. > > i'll take over the world and change it .... muahahahahahahah ... > -- Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail Amano Hikaru 天野晃 「あまの ひかる」 Fedora Malaysia Contributor & Ambassador http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus http://blog.kagesenshi.org 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Adli Azaddin
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hahaha btw.. happy system administrator day :D
http://www.sysadminday.com/ On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Izhar Firdaus <[hidden email]>wrote: > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Izhar Firdaus<[hidden email]> > wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Adli Azaddin<[hidden email]> > wrote: > >> izhar, that is real life working environment... soon you'll know > > > your statement is a good example of a young person entered an industry > with great ideals, great goals to improve things .. but end up > deteriorated and demotivated, and started accepting something wrong, > as right, because they have given up trying to make a change .. due to > everybody keep on trying to kill each other in order to keep > themselves in higher political positions than others ... > > what stopping mankinf from being further developed to a galactic > society is not because we does not have the capability to do so .. but > its due to each of us are preventing each other from moving forward .. > > > > > a real life at this point of time .. > > > > i'll take over the world and change it .... muahahahahahahah ... > > > > > -- > Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail > Amano Hikaru 天野晃 「あまの ひかる」 > Fedora Malaysia Contributor & Ambassador > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus > http://blog.kagesenshi.org > 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Johann Amin
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In reply to this post
by Mohd Hanif
On 07/31/2009 11:24 AM, Mohd Hanif wrote: > Eric, > > Following up on your banter towards Zaman's post earlier, I was wondering, > what is your point really? > > You said: > *Nice, another ad for helpdesk. How is that going to further our > promotion of FOSS?* > > First and foremost, what is wrong with working as a Helpdesk? Can you not > promote FOSS while at the same time working as a Helpdesk? Even a cook can > promote FOSS(If they really want to, of course) > > I, myself have 2-3 friends who used to be helpdesk a while ago are now > working as a System Engineer in MNC's company and even one of them are > starting his own IT-related business. > > and ... After all, we need to start somewhere do we?* > > *You said:* > I am sorry but you are putting out an ad to support proprietary > software in a FOSS mailing list. Do not expect to be treated kindly!* > > He was merely advertising a vacancy in his company where he works, I did not > see any logos or words that he said supporting proprietary software as you > mentioned? > mailing list unless it is specific to the topic of the mailing itself. For example, people posting job offers in the ffmpeg mailing list, are very specific (most of the time) about the prospect needing to fix certain bugs, extend functionality or to build new video filters _FOR_ ffmpeg. I don't see (or haven't seen) postings about needing "potential and aspiring graduates to join out team in delivering _VIDEO_ENCODING_SOLUTIONS_ to customers worldwide" . This advertisement doesn't specify anything related to either Fedora/Linux or FOSS. > Yes we are promoting FOSS, but, we do it the healthy way. I don't want to > slap my friend just because he uses Microsoft office instead of Open office. > > * > * > > 2009/7/31 Eric Yeoh<[hidden email]> > > >> Haris, >> >> I am attacking the issue not the man. Yes, he has every right to voice >> his opinions and so can I. But I strongly disagree with what he meant >> by "the real world". >> >> So after being through all the unfortunate events you have gone >> through at the bank, you would still think it is a good idea to >> demoralise youngsters so that they can learn "about working in the >> real world"? And no; to answer your questions, I will not like the >> audit and the reporting parts, but of course you are already aware of >> my eventual answer. Who would? >> >> Look, you know and I know the many silly things that happens within >> MNCs. After all you have been through it. As you well said, I am >> merely stating my point as much as your mate was. >> >> And this hostility? I am unsure where it comes from. I make noise? >> >> Hmmm...interesting. >> >> Eric >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Harisfazillah >> Jamel<[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Eric, >>> >>> You pick a wrong person to fight with. >>> >>> Numbers of us including Sharuzzaman been through for what you had >>> written. That include freelancing >>> for many years, joining SMB and many more things. >>> >>> Sharuzzaman has the right to write what he is saying >>> because he being through that. >>> >>> I had work with ICT banking sector for 13 years. >>> You tell me of any shit that I had been through. >>> >>> By doing all the bullshit of paper works, audit, >>> ISO and many procudures do you think I like it? >>> >>> Do you like to be audit by two teams of audit every >>> month? >>> >>> Every servers and jobs that you do will be check >>> and any different in your reports will be questions >>> and report to higher level. >>> >>> What I want to tell you is this. If we want our >>> young generation to know and fell what, how and >>> where to get all the exposure let them join >>> the big companies and MNC. Let them know >>> office politics, tendang terajang and know new things >>> that SMB could not give. >>> >>> at the end of the day, they will gain knowledge >>> that our country need.... >>> >>> Rather than making noise and keep blaming others >>> lets fix the problems. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 2:43 AM, Eric Yeoh<[hidden email]> >>> >> wrote: >> >>>> So working in a foreign outsourced company is working in the real >>>> world? Man, you just insulted the majority of the IT workforce in the >>>> country. Malaysia is a country which is mostly SMB/SMEs; so those IT >>>> guys are in Never-Never Land? What about those who are on their own? >>>> They don't do real work but you do? >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fedora-my-list mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fedora-my-list mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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IzharFirdaus
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In reply to this post
by Adli Azaddin
2009/7/31 Adli Azaddin <[hidden email]>:
> hahaha btw.. happy system administrator day :D > > http://www.sysadminday.com/ > haha .. yeah ... happy sysadmin day!! celebrate it by reading BoFH : http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard_Indexes.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/ -- Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail Amano Hikaru 天野晃 「あまの ひかる」 Fedora Malaysia Contributor & Ambassador http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus http://blog.kagesenshi.org 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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IzharFirdaus
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In reply to this post
by Johann Amin
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Johann Amin<[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I feel that job applications/advertising should not be posted on the mailing > list unless it is specific to the topic of the mailing itself. For example, > people posting job offers in the ffmpeg mailing list, are very specific > (most of the time) about the prospect needing to fix certain bugs, extend > functionality or to build new video filters _FOR_ ffmpeg. I don't see (or > haven't seen) postings about needing "potential and aspiring graduates to > join out team in delivering _VIDEO_ENCODING_SOLUTIONS_ to customers > worldwide" . This advertisement doesn't specify anything related to either > Fedora/Linux or FOSS. +1 agree -- Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail Amano Hikaru 天野晃 「あまの ひかる」 Fedora Malaysia Contributor & Ambassador http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus http://blog.kagesenshi.org 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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Eric Yeoh-2
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In reply to this post
by Mohd Hanif
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Mohd Hanif<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Eric, > > Following up on your banter towards Zaman's post earlier, I was wondering, > what is your point really? > > You said: > *Nice, another ad for helpdesk. How is that going to further our > promotion of FOSS?* > > First and foremost, what is wrong with working as a Helpdesk? Can you not > promote FOSS while at the same time working as a Helpdesk? Even a cook can > promote FOSS(If they really want to, of course) Nothing wrong, clean and honest job, but how does that benefit FOSS? I cannot say whether I know many cooks who can do FOSS, but it would be awesome if they could. > I, myself have 2-3 friends who used to be helpdesk a while ago are now > working as a System Engineer in MNC's company and even one of them are > starting his own IT-related business. Good for them/him. > and ... After all, we need to start somewhere do we?* Indeed we do. > *You said:* > I am sorry but you are putting out an ad to support proprietary > software in a FOSS mailing list. Do not expect to be treated kindly!* > > He was merely advertising a vacancy in his company where he works, I did not > see any logos or words that he said supporting proprietary software as you > mentioned? Indeed I jumped the gun on that. I have spoken to T-Systems people and they were adamant that they only do Windows. As I replied earlier on the thread, the Managers I spoke to during my interview did not inspire confidence either. > Yes we are promoting FOSS, but, we do it the healthy way. I don't want to > slap my friend just because he uses Microsoft office instead of Open office. You don't need to slap him/her unless there is mutual consent. > * > * > I do admit I was git when I replied to his initial post. No excuses. I was possibly in a bad mood and in retrospect I should have worded it better. But possibly I lost it when he made assumptions of my intelligence and degenerated to name calling. Eric > 2009/7/31 Eric Yeoh <[hidden email]> > >> Haris, >> >> I am attacking the issue not the man. Yes, he has every right to voice >> his opinions and so can I. But I strongly disagree with what he meant >> by "the real world". >> >> So after being through all the unfortunate events you have gone >> through at the bank, you would still think it is a good idea to >> demoralise youngsters so that they can learn "about working in the >> real world"? And no; to answer your questions, I will not like the >> audit and the reporting parts, but of course you are already aware of >> my eventual answer. Who would? >> >> Look, you know and I know the many silly things that happens within >> MNCs. After all you have been through it. As you well said, I am >> merely stating my point as much as your mate was. >> >> And this hostility? I am unsure where it comes from. I make noise? >> >> Hmmm...interesting. >> >> Eric >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Harisfazillah >> Jamel<[hidden email]> wrote: >> > Eric, >> > >> > You pick a wrong person to fight with. >> > >> > Numbers of us including Sharuzzaman been through for what you had >> > written. That include freelancing >> > for many years, joining SMB and many more things. >> > >> > Sharuzzaman has the right to write what he is saying >> > because he being through that. >> > >> > I had work with ICT banking sector for 13 years. >> > You tell me of any shit that I had been through. >> > >> > By doing all the bullshit of paper works, audit, >> > ISO and many procudures do you think I like it? >> > >> > Do you like to be audit by two teams of audit every >> > month? >> > >> > Every servers and jobs that you do will be check >> > and any different in your reports will be questions >> > and report to higher level. >> > >> > What I want to tell you is this. If we want our >> > young generation to know and fell what, how and >> > where to get all the exposure let them join >> > the big companies and MNC. Let them know >> > office politics, tendang terajang and know new things >> > that SMB could not give. >> > >> > at the end of the day, they will gain knowledge >> > that our country need.... >> > >> > Rather than making noise and keep blaming others >> > lets fix the problems. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 2:43 AM, Eric Yeoh<[hidden email]> >> wrote: >> >> So working in a foreign outsourced company is working in the real >> >> world? Man, you just insulted the majority of the IT workforce in the >> >> country. Malaysia is a country which is mostly SMB/SMEs; so those IT >> >> guys are in Never-Never Land? What about those who are on their own? >> >> They don't do real work but you do? >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Fedora-my-list mailing list >> > [hidden email] >> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fedora-my-list mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list >> > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-my-list mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list > _______________________________________________ Fedora-my-list mailing list [hidden email] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-my-list |
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