Foswiki

Foswiki on Wikipedia

32 messages

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Guruprasad Iyer

Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Hi,

I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki. I found out that the earlier page was deleted. You can help expand it.

- Guru

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Martin Seibert

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

I once spent a significant amount of work on preserving the wikipedia-
entry. But it was deleted nevertheless. :-(

Let's hope, we survive this time.

Viele Grüße

Martin Seibert
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Am 23.09.2009 um 12:27 schrieb Guruprasad Iyer:

> Hi,
>
> I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki
> . I found out that the earlier page was deleted. You can help expand
> it.
>
> - Guru
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
> stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register
> now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf_______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss

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Martin Cleaver

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

Aren't deleted wikipedia entries archived somewhere?

M.
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On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Martin Seibert
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I once spent a significant amount of work on preserving the wikipedia-entry.
> But it was deleted nevertheless. :-(
>
> Let's hope, we survive this time.
>
> Viele Grüße
>
> Martin Seibert
> //SEIBERT/MEDIA/CONSULTING
>
> //SEIBERT/MEDIA GmbH / Rheingau Palais
> Söhnleinstraße 8 / 65201 Wiesbaden
> GF: J.Seibert und M.Seibert / AG Wiesbaden: HRB11502
>
> T.+49-611-20570-20 / F.+49-611-20570-70
> [hidden email]
> www.seibert-media.net /
>
> Über 500 Fachartikel und viele PodCasts: http://blog.seibert-media.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 23.09.2009 um 12:27 schrieb Guruprasad Iyer:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia-
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki. I found out that the earlier page was
>> deleted. You can help expand it.
>>
>> - Guru
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA
>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register
>> now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf_______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>
>
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>
>

Ingo Kappler

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

Hi,

http://foswiki.org/Community/WikipediaArticleBackup

Ingo

Martin Cleaver schrieb:

> Aren't deleted wikipedia entries archived somewhere?
>
> M.
> --
> [hidden email]
> http://twitter.com/mrjcleaver
> +1 416-786-6752 (GMT-5)
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Martin Seibert
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I once spent a significant amount of work on preserving the wikipedia-entry.
>> But it was deleted nevertheless. :-(
>>
>> Let's hope, we survive this time.
>>
>> Viele Grüße
>>
>> Martin Seibert
>> //SEIBERT/MEDIA/CONSULTING
>>
>> //SEIBERT/MEDIA GmbH / Rheingau Palais
>> Söhnleinstraße 8 / 65201 Wiesbaden
>> GF: J.Seibert und M.Seibert / AG Wiesbaden: HRB11502
>>
>> T.+49-611-20570-20 / F.+49-611-20570-70
>> [hidden email]
>> www.seibert-media.net /
>>
>> Über 500 Fachartikel und viele PodCasts: http://blog.seibert-media.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 23.09.2009 um 12:27 schrieb Guruprasad Iyer:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia-
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki. I found out that the earlier page was
>>> deleted. You can help expand it.
>>>
>>> - Guru
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA
>>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
>>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
>>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register
>>> now!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf_______________________________________________
>>> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA
>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>>
>>
>
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Markus Ueberall

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Martin Cleaver

Hi Martin,

Martin Cleaver schrieb:
> Aren't deleted wikipedia entries archived somewhere?
>
Well, there's Deletionpedia
(http://deletionpedia.dbatley.com/w/index.php?title=Main_Page), but the
"Foswiki" topic has not been archived there. Apparently, Wikipedia isn't
covered by the Internet Archive Wayback Machine (http://web.archive.org)
either.
As Ingo pointed out, it's always better to keep a local backup ;)

Ad astra, Markus

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Craig Bowers

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

In order to not have this wasted effort, some focus should be given to meeting notability (the deletion reason last time), and getting citations in there.

Given that the first page results in news.google.com only contain one english article, there may be a marketing need there.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=foswiki&cf=all

An easy reach would be http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item90

Easy in terms of putting your flag on the Open Source community (and hangers on) mindshare. But still requires a couple volunteers comfortable with a Skype interview, telling the whole historic tale (tactfully, even understated), and giving development insight.

As a second prong, it could well help with project recruiting.

Guruprasad Iyer

Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Guruprasad Iyer

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Well, the page got deleted! This is ridiculous!

From: Guruprasad Iyer [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:58 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Foswiki-discuss] Foswiki on Wikipedia

Hi,

I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki. I found out that the earlier page was deleted. You can help expand it.

- Guru

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Dan Dascalescu-4

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

Yeah, Wikipedia is anal like that. Our MojoMojo page got deleted as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/MojoMojo

I tried to drive some sense into the nazi (there you go, I'm saying it
again) process of deletion at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability/RFC:Notability_of_free_open_source_software

Dan

On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 22:23, Guruprasad Iyer
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Well, the page got deleted! This is ridiculous!
>
>
>
> From: Guruprasad Iyer [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:58 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Foswiki-discuss] Foswiki on Wikipedia
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki. I found out that the earlier page was deleted. You can help expand it.

Koen Martens

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:50:10AM -0700, Dan Dascalescu wrote:
> Yeah, Wikipedia is anal like that. Our MojoMojo page got deleted as well.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/MojoMojo
>
> I tried to drive some sense into the nazi (there you go, I'm saying it
> again) process of deletion at
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability/RFC:Notability_of_free_open_source_software

Yeah, and the twiki page is just full of marketing. Just another point
in case of why wikipedia sucks as a source of information, but did we
need that reminder??

Gr,

Koen

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Ingo Kappler

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

I recently added some mentioning of Foswiki to the TWiki page . It
didn't stay like I put it (guess I am already to subjective ;) but some
links survived. It is a bad workaround but maybe it can be done if we
manage to say something new about Foswiki on the TWiki page.

Ingo

Koen Martens schrieb:

> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:50:10AM -0700, Dan Dascalescu wrote:
>> Yeah, Wikipedia is anal like that. Our MojoMojo page got deleted as well.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/MojoMojo
>>
>> I tried to drive some sense into the nazi (there you go, I'm saying it
>> again) process of deletion at
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability/RFC:Notability_of_free_open_source_software
>
> Yeah, and the twiki page is just full of marketing. Just another point
> in case of why wikipedia sucks as a source of information, but did we
> need that reminder??
>
> Gr,
>
> Koen
>

KwangErn Liew

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

In attempt to keep myself awake due to the airconditioning...

I have listed Foswiki in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wiki_software

Foswiki is already listed in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software

So really, am still confused as to how we can a page on Wikipedia especially after going through http://foswiki.org/Community/WikipediaEntry again and again...

Maybe my brain is too small to understand this, so can any of you fellas clarify it for me? Please use layman terms as much as possible without any twists and turns that may cause brain damage. Thanks. :)

KwangErn

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Ingo Kappler

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

There it says in column "Data backend"
for Foswiki: "Flat-file, RCS; no SQL-based storage[13]"
for TWiki: "Flat-file, RCS, pluggable storage backend"

I am not sure that "no SQL-based storage" is "fully" true. From a
marketing point, saying it in the way like TWiki does looks better and
is not wrong either. Or has TWiki some real advantage here?

Ingo

KwangErn Liew schrieb:
> Foswiki is already listed in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software

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Michael Daum-2

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Guruprasad Iyer

Here's my take http://foswiki.org/Community/OpenLetterToWikipedia

Please review and add comments.

Michael.

On Friday 25 September 2009 07:23:31 Guruprasad Iyer wrote:

> Well, the page got deleted! This is ridiculous!
>
> From: Guruprasad Iyer [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:58 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Foswiki-discuss] Foswiki on Wikipedia
>
> Hi,
>
> I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki. I found out that the earlier page was deleted. You can help expand it.
>
> - Guru
>
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Martin Seibert

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

Hi Michael,

this is great work and a fair letter. Thank you very much for this. I
signed the document with my name.

All others: Please follow Michael and sign your name also.

http://foswiki.org/Community/OpenLetterToWikipedia

Viele Grüße

Martin Seibert
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Am 26.09.2009 um 16:52 schrieb Michael Daum:

> Here's my take http://foswiki.org/Community/OpenLetterToWikipedia
>
> Please review and add comments.
>
> Michael.
>
> On Friday 25 September 2009 07:23:31 Guruprasad Iyer wrote:
>> Well, the page got deleted! This is ridiculous!
>>
>> From: Guruprasad Iyer [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:58 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Foswiki-discuss] Foswiki on Wikipedia
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki
>> . I found out that the earlier page was deleted. You can help
>> expand it.
>>
>> - Guru
>>
>> **************** CAUTION - Disclaimer *****************
>> This e-mail contains PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION
>> intended solely
>> for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please
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>> liable for any damage
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>> reserves the
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Kenneth Lavrsen

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Michael Daum-2

I share the anger against Wikipedia. They are unfair.

But I will not sign the open letter. And I sincerely hope you all will
reconsider.

The letter tries to justify why Foswiki is worthy a Wikipedia article.
But all it talks about is Twiki. I lost count but I think I saw Twiki
mentioned 15-20 times.

It is totally irrelevant to Wikipedia why we forked. They will not
care. It is long sobby whining about how unfair we were treated. It is
begging and whining like a sad little boy. We have to put this behind
us.

The letter needs to address why we should be on Wikipedia.

Some keywords.

More than 40 developers.

1000s of downloads.

Business applications

More than 200 plugins

Supported by several commercial consultantcy companies.

Used by major companies

Mention in one line that it is former Twiki developers continuing the
work under new name. Never mind why.

Find external references to Foswiki. The latter is essential.

If the letter is changed in this direction I am find to sign. But I am
done whining.

Kenneth

On 26 Sep 2009, at 16:52, Michael Daum
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here's my take http://foswiki.org/Community/OpenLetterToWikipedia
>
> Please review and add comments.
>
> Michael.
>
> On Friday 25 September 2009 07:23:31 Guruprasad Iyer wrote:
>> Well, the page got deleted! This is ridiculous!
>>
>> From: Guruprasad Iyer [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:58 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Foswiki-discuss] Foswiki on Wikipedia
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki
>> . I found out that the earlier page was deleted. You can help
>> expand it.
>>
>> - Guru
>>
>> **************** CAUTION - Disclaimer *****************
>> This e-mail contains PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION
>> intended solely
>> for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please
>> notify the sender by e-mail and delete the original message.
>> Further, you are not
>> to copy, disclose, or distribute this e-mail or its contents to any
>> other person and
>> any such actions are unlawful. This e-mail may contain viruses.
>> Infosys has taken
>> every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, but is not
>> liable for any damage
>> you may sustain as a result of any virus in this e-mail. You should
>> carry out your
>> own virus checks before opening the e-mail or attachment. Infosys
>> reserves the
>> right to monitor and review the content of all messages sent to or
>> from this e-mail
>> address. Messages sent to or from this e-mail address may be stored
>> on the
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>
> --
> -- Michael Daum Consulting
> -- Your Wiki Software Partner
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> -- Tel: +49 (0)40 21 99 27 51
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
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Martin Cleaver

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

Multiple letters with different but equally valid viewpoints would be a positive.

M.
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On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Kenneth Lavrsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I share the anger against Wikipedia. They are unfair.

But I will not sign the open letter. And I sincerely hope you all will
reconsider.

The letter tries to justify why Foswiki is worthy a Wikipedia article.
But all it talks about is Twiki. I lost count but I think I saw Twiki
mentioned 15-20 times.

It is totally irrelevant to Wikipedia why we forked. They will not
care. It is long sobby whining about how unfair we were treated. It is
begging and whining like a sad little boy. We have to put this behind
us.

The letter needs to address why we should be on Wikipedia.

Some keywords.

More than 40 developers.

1000s of downloads.

Business applications

More than 200 plugins

Supported by several commercial consultantcy companies.

Used by major companies

Mention in one line that it is former Twiki developers continuing the
work under new name. Never mind why.

Find external references to Foswiki. The latter is essential.

If the letter is changed in this direction I am find to sign. But I am
done whining.

Kenneth

On 26 Sep 2009, at 16:52, Michael Daum

<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here's my take http://foswiki.org/Community/OpenLetterToWikipedia
>
> Please review and add comments.
>
> Michael.
>
> On Friday 25 September 2009 07:23:31 Guruprasad Iyer wrote:
>> Well, the page got deleted! This is ridiculous!
>>
>> From: Guruprasad Iyer [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:58 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Foswiki-discuss] Foswiki on Wikipedia
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki
>> . I found out that the earlier page was deleted. You can help
>> expand it.
>>
>> - Guru
>>
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Markus Ueberall

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Kenneth Lavrsen

Kenneth Lavrsen schrieb:
> [...] If the letter is changed in this direction I am find to sign.
+1

Ad astra, Markus

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Filippo A. Salustri

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Kenneth Lavrsen

Kenneth et al,

I understand your position and agree with it. But I also think that other people may think differently, and so to try to sway the greatest number of people to the cause, multiple arguments can be made. You make one; Michael made another. Recognizing that I have not contributed substantively to this project, and therefore may not have the privilege of offering advise, I will anyway: write a few open letters, each one making the same point but from entirely different points of view. Michael's is one. Someone else can write one that argues from the point of view Kenneth summarizes so nicely here (recognizing how much work he does and perhaps doesn't need to do this too).

And if such a letter were to be written, I would suggest it should also mention how quickly we got to v1.0.7 from the Day of the Fork; insofar as I've never seen this many people do this much work this well and so far, I'd say that was "notable" in itself.

Just an idea.
Fil Salustri

2009/9/26 Kenneth Lavrsen <[hidden email]>

I share the anger against Wikipedia. They are unfair.

But I will not sign the open letter. And I sincerely hope you all will
reconsider.

The letter tries to justify why Foswiki is worthy a Wikipedia article.
But all it talks about is Twiki. I lost count but I think I saw Twiki
mentioned 15-20 times.

It is totally irrelevant to Wikipedia why we forked. They will not
care. It is long sobby whining about how unfair we were treated. It is
begging and whining like a sad little boy. We have to put this behind
us.

The letter needs to address why we should be on Wikipedia.

Some keywords.

More than 40 developers.

1000s of downloads.

Business applications

More than 200 plugins

Supported by several commercial consultantcy companies.

Used by major companies

Mention in one line that it is former Twiki developers continuing the
work under new name. Never mind why.

Find external references to Foswiki. The latter is essential.

If the letter is changed in this direction I am find to sign. But I am
done whining.

Kenneth

On 26 Sep 2009, at 16:52, Michael Daum

<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here's my take http://foswiki.org/Community/OpenLetterToWikipedia
>
> Please review and add comments.
>
> Michael.
>
> On Friday 25 September 2009 07:23:31 Guruprasad Iyer wrote:
>> Well, the page got deleted! This is ridiculous!
>>
>> From: Guruprasad Iyer [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:58 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Foswiki-discuss] Foswiki on Wikipedia
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just created a page for Foswiki on Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foswiki
>> . I found out that the earlier page was deleted. You can help
>> expand it.
>>
>> - Guru
>>
>> **************** CAUTION - Disclaimer *****************
>> This e-mail contains PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION
>> intended solely
>> for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please
>> notify the sender by e-mail and delete the original message.
>> Further, you are not
>> to copy, disclose, or distribute this e-mail or its contents to any
>> other person and
>> any such actions are unlawful. This e-mail may contain viruses.
>> Infosys has taken
>> every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, but is not
>> liable for any damage
>> you may sustain as a result of any virus in this e-mail. You should
>> carry out your
>> own virus checks before opening the e-mail or attachment. Infosys
>> reserves the
>> right to monitor and review the content of all messages sent to or
>> from this e-mail
>> address. Messages sent to or from this e-mail address may be stored
>> on the
>> Infosys e-mail system.
>> ***INFOSYS******** End of Disclaimer ********INFOSYS***
>>
>
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Michael Daum-2

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Kenneth Lavrsen

Hi,

On Saturday 26 September 2009 22:23:00 Kenneth Lavrsen wrote:
> I share the anger against Wikipedia. They are unfair.

Kenneth, try to see the stick from their side.

>From the Wikipedian's perspective they try very hard to be fair by applying the same
rules to every article in their monster database.

So some of these decisions - there must be millions of similar decisions pending -
are necessarily based on insufficient data.

What I tried to express is a bit of a different argument that tries to play their game
called "Wikipedia notability". That's important to see.

The question at hand is:

Does TWiki's success story - and it was one - carry over to Foswiki,
does it contribute to Foswiki's notability in the Wikipedian sense?

I've been thinking about this for quite a long time. Well sure we aren't TWiki
anymore. We are called Foswiki.

So if today someone says "TWiki is a notable piece of software that received
numerous official acknowledgements, that is well respected" and so on then there's
still a reason why I think that this does in fact carry over to Foswiki.

This is because it was *us* that made the success happen by working on this
software for 10 years of our life time.

It was *not* TWiki.net.

However, today the press media is full of appraisal about TWiki.net and their
great software.

*This* is unfair. Wikipedia does not know that this is unfair.

We have to debunk these lies. The addressee of this message - Wikipedia - is an important
one.

So what do we have:

(a) the Wikipedian concept of notability,

(b) lots of people that are not aware of the fork and

(c) TWiki.net exploiting TWiki's notability for their own benefit.

My argument is threefold:

First, Foswiki *is* notable in the Wikipedian sense because the people that made
TWiki notable are now called Foswiki. We rebranded more than we forked.

Second, if Foswiki is *not* notable in the Wikipedian sense, then TWiki.net now less than ever isn't
either. They don't deserve this honor because they didn't contribute to TWiki's merits.

Third, a TWiki as such without TWiki.net does not exist anymore.

That's the main point that might hit the vein of those Wikipedians that judged on the
deletion of the Foswiki article. They did not catch fire on anything else like
you mention below:

> Some keywords.
> More than 40 developers.
> 1000s of downloads.
> Business applications
> More than 200 plugins

*This* is totally irrelevant to Wikipedia. Try to look beyond your own nose and
look at other projects. For instance http://extensions.joomla.org/ hosts
3350 extensions (some of these must be good ;) ). It's community is a lot bigger.
Just to mention one.

Notability is *the* only thing that counts for hop of flop on Wikipedia.
The only source of notability for Foswiki comes via TWiki. It is carried
over by *us* continuing on the *same code* but under a different name.

> Find external references to Foswiki. The latter is essential.
There won't be any references to Foswiki short term,
not if you don't help to debunk the TWiki.net marketing lies.

To do so, you have to call the baby with the T-word by its name.

Michael.

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Markus Ueberall

Re: Foswiki on Wikipedia

Reply Threaded

Hi Michael,

Michael Daum schrieb:
> My argument is threefold:
> First, Foswiki *is* notable in the Wikipedian sense because the people that made
> TWiki notable are now called Foswiki. We rebranded more than we forked.
>
> Second, if Foswiki is *not* notable in the Wikipedian sense, then TWiki.net now less than ever isn't
> either. They don't deserve this honor because they didn't contribute to TWiki's merits.
>
> Third, a TWiki as such without TWiki.net does not exist anymore.
>

Let me play advocatus diaboli here before I'm off to bed (notes in
square brackets are in non-advocatus-diaboli mode):

- ad 1a): "because the people that made TWiki notable are now called
Foswiki"
This qualifies for a paragraph, but not necessarily for a topic of its own.

- ad 1b): "We rebranded more than we forked."
So in fact, it's just another name; well, then it qualifies for a
sentence on the TWiki (discussion) page *at most*.
[The quoted statement in its form is a very, very dangerous
oversimplification, erase it wherever you see it! Instead, emphasize the
development w.r.t code *and community* (cf. the e.V. i.Gr.). (Not just)
IMHO, this is our main asset, but it'll take time to become more and
more visible. Therefore, the Wikipedia discussion will take it's time...]

- ad 2): It's not a matter whether one deserves something, it's a matter
of obtaining something or not. Judging from the press, TWiki _as a
project_ gained recognition/reputation _over the years_; this is a fact.
[This doesn't mean we should stop nagging--"Constant dripping wears away
the stone"; however, IMHO this requires that the list Kenneth mentioned
which are now "totally irrelevant to Wikipedia" (as you put it) has to
be acknowledged. In order to achieve this, we'll have to join forces
with other projects which are in the same situation.]

- ad 3): This is not a valid criterium, cf. Atlassian/Confluence.
Whether or not TWiki.net deserves an extra topic (sic!), the TWiki topic
is there to stay. [Because we know what tremendous amount of work has
been put in the project ; it's clearly distinguishable from MediaWiki
etc.; see press reference above.]

Summa sumarum, I'm not convinced.

Ad astra, Markus

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