Follow-up on a previous question: How to end it

[Clock Watcher]

Hi everyone,

I posted an earlier question/request for validation about continuing on or breaking up with my overweight girlfriend (Post Name: Clock Watcher; Subject: How long should I wait?). I got a lot of well thought-out advice from all of you - don't get her pregnant, don't get married, etc. I also noticed a lot of similar conversation points. It seems like, like me, you significant other's weight has preoccupied your mind and that has given you a lot of time to think of what to say to someone like me.

Here is what has happened since then:

In late September, I conveyed my issues to her about the weight (this has been an ongoing issue for 2 years - we have been dating for 4 years), big fight, I agreed not to keep bringing it up because it is embarrassing to her, and she vocalized a goal and short-term time line (lose 30 lbs by April), and we agreed to go to counseling.

Since then, she has become enthralled with an online video game and, as a result, not gone to the gym/exercised at all, and has not adjusted her already poor diet. She got cold feet on the counseling thing too. I, however, didn't even mention to her (or anyone) her weight, goal, eating patterns, etc. for three months (I brought it up again about a week ago). Put another way, she has done nothing to actually accomplish her goal.

In fact, she has actually told me that she peaked at an all time high in mid December.  She has not made any progress since then. I brought up her goal (more or less casually) last week and she feigned interest, but still has yet to go to the gym or change her habit of binging on hight sugar/fat foods daily.  She has expressed interest in starting a 500 calorie a day/HCG hormone injection diet, which she states will cause her to lose 30 lbs in a month. She said today that she is going to start that diet this week.

Now, the question:

With that prospective in mind, I don't think it's going to happen.  If you disagree - think she is going to make it happen - please tell me.  I want to be convinced.  Otherwise, our lease ends in April, and I figure that I need to end it.  It has been 4 years (5.5 total) of hoping/asking/begging/dreaming/fantasying/giving up on weight loss. I care about this woman, but want more.


I hoping (guessing) that a lot of you have thought about what you would say if you were to (or have) end it (divorce/break-up/move to another country and never call) with your overweight SO.

So, my question is this: What do you think I should say to her? As I mentioned, I care about her, and I don't want her to become overly depressed, so I'm hoping for some advice that addresses this issue.  Also, and I hate admitting this, but, I am a kind of scared about doing this after being with her for so long.  I'm comfortable in the relationship and it isn't horrible, but it is 'bad enough' that I want more. Any advice along those lines would be be equally appreciated.

[Clock Watcher]

Also, after reading the preceding post, I should mention that she expressed the desire to lose weight as her own - not something that is 'for me.' Judge the voracity of this yourself, but I feel it's relevant.

[bana]

Clock Watcher wrote:

Also, after reading the preceding post, I should mention that she expressed the desire to lose weight as her own - not something that is 'for me.' Judge the voracity of this yourself, but I feel it's relevant.

She is a selfish person then. She will not lose the weight.

You're not married, you have no kids.

There is a serious character flaw that will worsen after marriage, kids, mortgage, etc. Since she doesn't want to become uncomfortable by losing the weight, you will have to make yourself uncomfortable by ending things (imo) and spend some time single and try to figure out what attracted you to her and that relationship so you don't find yourself in the same boat with the same type of woman.

[The Buddhist Mortician]

I agree with Bana. Although, interestingly enough, I've been composing a blog post about the power of video games in weight loss. I don't know if I'll ever write it, but here's the precis:

I've spent upwards of 500 (and probably closer to 1000) hours on all my RPG games (I'm a Final Fantasy freak) leveling my characters. I level grind so they can get stronger and take on bigger, badder beasts. So one day, in my non-exercising days, I'm grinding on Final Fantasy XII and I start thinking, "I'm willing to sit here for hours so these little pixel people can get stronger... why am I not willing to be in the gym for hours getting MYSELF stronger?" This metaphor of gym-as-level-grinding has really helped me, because if you have the mental strength to sit in front of a console for what amounts to months at a time, pressing "X," you have the mental strength to report to the gym and run your body through routines until you level up.

I'm not saying that this will be the magic switch to flip your girlfriend onto a healthier lifestyle, but I think it might be a neat way to bring the subject up without ticking anybody off. I know if I had a fat gamer in my household I'd be all over it. I'd even make a "secret sword" and when they got strong enough, I'd give it to them. "You're level 63 and here's your Sword of a Thousand Truths!"

I'd respond to that...

[mountain]

My advice is to sit her down and tell her that past behaviour predicts future behaviour and that you are leaving.
I expect my partner to be open to discuss a problem in our relationsship and act accordingly. I expect my partner to do his best to make our life together wonderful. I expect if my partner promises something, that he will move the world to keep this promise.....get off his butt and do it, lol.

There is no future in your relationsship with this woman, only frustration over and over and over again and so many lost years, years you could have had so much fun!

Run, boy, run as fast as your legs will carry you.....but remember, that is what I would do!!!

And congratulate yourself on your patience, 3 months and not saying anything, just watching her bad behaviour, I do not think I could have kept my mouth shut.

[Frustrated09]

bana wrote:

Clock Watcher wrote:

Also, after reading the preceding post, I should mention that she expressed the desire to lose weight as her own - not something that is 'for me.' Judge the voracity of this yourself, but I feel it's relevant.

She is a selfish person then. She will not lose the weight. You're not married, you have no kids. There is a serious character flaw that will worsen after marriage, kids, mortgage, etc. Since she doesn't want to become uncomfortable by losing the weight, you will have to make yourself uncomfortable by ending things (imo) and spend some time single and try to figure out what attracted you to her and that relationship so you don't find yourself in the same boat with the same type of woman.

Yes, yes, get out now. I did not 17 years ago and now my spouse has gained over 100 pounds and 16 inches around the waist. I did not see it coming when she packed on a few pounds in the beginning and now I live in misery to provide the best for my three kids with no passion for my marriage. GET OUT NOW

[Clock Watcher]

Thanks for the advice.

We have been together for so long- I just can't escape the guilt of giving up.  In my heart, I just want her to care about her appearance like she cares about other things.  I just keep thinking that someday it will change, something will stick, and she'll lose the weight.  I really love this woman, but I can't keep going on like this.  But, in my mind, I know that it isn't going to happen. It kills me.  It's just not fair - I am made to feel like a jerk for being critical of her appearance and she gets to feel resentful.

Regarding what to say to her, we have fought enough times that we could easily enumerate reasons to end it.  She knows what I want from her as much as I know what she wants from me. I don't need to make things worse by telling her that I can't be with her because she is fat and getting fatter.  Actually telling her it's over is easy. Really, it's dealing with all the feelings going into it and coming out of it that are hard.

For her part, I truly don't think she understands my anguish.  I know that it hurts her that I'm not happy with her weight.  But, I think that, from her view, I'm just being shallow. In reality, I feel resentful that she can't/won't do things that I want/love: running, hiking, snowshoeing, skiing. I want her to dress like a girl every once in a while (as opposed to a frat boy in baggy jeans and sweatshirts with matching birkenstocks with socks to match).

To her, I don't think my appearance matters - I think she would like me more, in fact, if I was overweight.  I just wish things were different.  I wish that she cared about her appearance or I wish that I didn't. I have tried to look at things differently - look at only her positive attributes - but, I can't help wanting more.  There's a voice in my head that keeps saying, maybe I'm asking too much, or maybe I'll grow to not care, or maybe she'll do it on her own. To illustrate how twisted this issue has made me, I have a perverse fantasy that she'll find someone who loves her the way that she is and she'll leave me for them.

I'm frustrated. I'm depressed. I'm filled with self-loathing. I'm wracked by guilt and doubt. I can't believe that my relationship is coming to this. In my mind, she could, with time, easily fix this. I just don't understand why she won't even try. I hate this situation - and I resent her so much for putting us into it. I guess now I just need to figure out how to be callous and finish it.

[mountain]

Yes, breaking up can be hard to do. But you have realized that things will not get better so it is best to do it sooner than later. The longer you wait, the harder it gets and you keep thinking and thinking about it all the time.
She will not change and maybe she will find a man who loves a fat woman, maybe not.
You are not the one and that is it!

I hope you will find a woman who is into health, exercise and all the other things you like to do.
Look closely how she eats and what she spends her money on, also look at her mom!

[Cheese&Wine]

Do men really look at moms? Drag. I run 7 miles every day, happily. In fact, when I'm on a trip and can't run for a few days, I get cranky. I also love belly dance and snowboarding. To work things out in my head, like lesson planning, I take long walks. These things are not chores, but a part of my life. My mom and my sister take pride in moving as little as possible. They drive to the ice cream shop that is honestly only a block away. However, even driving is too much exercise so they always try to send someone else. My mom says that cellulite runs in our family; it's genetic. Yet, even though I'm not stick thin, I don't have a trace of it. My sister who is a decade younger than me, in her mid teens, has it everywhere, while my mom is just completely made out of cellulite. They both enjoy salted pig fat (a Russian dish) while it makes me want to gag. I know my mom is obese, but, please, don't look at her as the future me.

[bana]

Cheese&Wine wrote:

Do men really look at moms?

My brother does, but it only is an important factor if he notices that the girl he's dating is not into proper diet and exercise. If the girl is a 'health nut' then he figures she's trying to fight her genes.

[WuKong]

bana wrote:

Cheese&Wine wrote:

Do men really look at moms?

My brother does, but it only is an important factor if he notices that the girl he's dating is not into proper diet and exercise. If the girl is a 'health nut' then he figures she's trying to fight her genes.

I agree with doing this and it goes for both men and women. I also highlighted your last point as it is very common; it is also very common for this type of motivation to burn out relatively quickly.

There really is no other reference point. We are all primarily influenced and ingrained with the beliefs, lifestyle, priorities and characteristics of our parents and the environment they created. Is it possible for some of us to be independent of their influence? Sure but, more likely than not, when life gets rough or even when it gets 'easy', we lean on our natural/subconscious selves. Actually, most of us live a large portion if not mostly unconsciously, with spurts of consciousness/awareness of our true selves and of true reality (as opposed to our response to a subjectively perceived reality).

In any case, I support both men and women using their parents as references. If the person appears different on the surface, then date them longer and find out what are the actual characteristics and beliefs that the parent hold and does their son or daughter have these at their core or are they really different at their source character.

Human nature is to fall back in our comfort zones, what we know and understand. This is why, so often, people repeat their parent's life even those that focus on being nothing like their parent. That's like trying to dodge a semi by focusing on the semi. That's instinct and natural. It takes consciousness/awareness to recognize that and do, for example, as is taught in a motorcycle riding course - look where you want to go, not where you want to avoid; you will go where you look.

It would be unwise to ignore the heavy influence and connection between parent and child. My wife was near belligerent about not even being like her mom and that's exactly who she is. I made the mistake of taking her passion about it at face value instead of analyzing what it was about her mom that made her who she was and find if those same characteristics were in my wife.

[Archie Archive]

Hop on the bus Gus! No need to discuss much.

[Ann]

Amen Archie!  

[Cheese&Wine]

Hmmm... Interesting. I guess my mind will do a 180 one of these days, and things that make me sick now will become natural. My mom used to beat her older children with a belt, so maybe I shouldn't have kids. Actually, I teach elementary school and never feel am urge to hit a child, no matter how badly he or she behaves. But if child abuse is in my genes, and I have no control over it just coming out of me one day, that sure is something to consider when planning a family.

Just wondering, WuKong, are you actually angry with your wife for doing what she does? If she has almost no control over it, according to you, shouldn't she be absolved of all her faults?
Also, do you mean that it's a lie I tell myself, if I honestly enjoy running, get agitated when I don't get to walk, and really don't have any desire to smack a kid? It's difficult to know if one is deluding herself, because, well, deluded people don't really know what's going on.

Also, it's been a while since the biology class, but I seem to recall that we are less than 50% percent of the genes expressed in each parent because the genes that our parents carry, but don't display, can be expressed in us, as well. That's why you might get your grandfather's big nose, even though both of your parents have small noses. So, it's kind of strange to expect a carbon copy of one parent, not to say that it doesn't happen. As far as childhood imprinting, absolutely. But some people have had a lot of influences in their lives: other relatives, friends, teachers, popular culture, ect.

Lastly, do you honestly believe that, say, a child of a murderer has to focus hard every day on AVOIDING killing someone? When I'm nice to the kids, I don't think about not hitting them, I think about caring for them. When I run, I'm much more likely to fantasize about hot men, than to think about my mom. Actually, the only times I think about my mom while running is when she just pissed me off, and I went for a run to let the fumes out.
Cheers! Your kids aren't doomed!

[bana]

C&W: Of course there are exceptions. Genes and environment can be a factor in our behavior.

But a good point was made about burnout. Some women may fight their genes only until they 'hook a man'. My brother dated a beautiful young women for a while; but was quite concerned that the mother was morbidly obese and the girl he dated 'hated to exercise' and didn't own any sneakers. Right now he's dating a woman who just lost 40 lbs from the stress of a divorce AND she smokes. Supposedly she plans on quitting smoking in a couple of months. He will likely break up with her since he's made it clear that he'll never long-term date a smoker and she doesn't seem to be an active person like he is.

I think, realistically, that it's more likely for anyone to fight the urge to eat a donut then it is to fight the urge to kill someone on any given day.

My parents have weight issues. Neither are obese but are overweight. My bro and I have to work hard to not be. Our parents have no interest in proper nutrition and exercise. Big surprise that I was obese for 10 years. My brother, just in the last five years, finally has to watch his diet in his thirties. He's never been more than 20 lbs overweight and he stays pretty active.

I have one girlfriend who's fought 'fat factor' ever since her teens. Got married, had a kid - still stayed slim. Both her parents are fat and she doesn't want to be - she flat-out said that. I know many young women that I've watched grow up since their teens that are fat just like their mothers although they weren't when they were trying to land a man.

Right now I know two young women (17 & 14) that I've known for three years. Both were very slim. The older one is now putting on weight. The parents are both obese. If the 17-year-old doesn't fight it she will look like her mother one day. Her mom was, apparently, very slim at one time. Now I don't know how the woman doesn't tip over from the size of her stomach and breasts (she's very short).

I've three girlfriends that are divorced with kids. All are slim. Would they still be if they were married for almost two decades like me? Maybe...maybe not. One of them had a slim mom, who's only put quite a bit of weight on in the last couple of years because of some medications for an illness. The other two have fat moms. I have one girlfriend that is slim and married and she stays active even in the winter because she doesn't want to put on weight. She's 48. Another is in her 60's and recently widowed and is beautifully slim (always has been). The rest of my girlfriends are married (or widowed) and range from overweight to morbidly obese.

I suppose 'I speak as I see' as Elizabeth Bennett would say (Pride & Prejudice) and am not really interested in the scientific explanation behind genetics or if it could even back up what I observe.  

If you stop running and being active and watching what you eat for whatever reason, you'll likely get fat (did you say you were overweight in the past?) and then it's hard to get back into the healthy lifestyle. It becomes a vicious cycle.

[Cheese&Wine]

Bana, of course if I stop watching what I eat and stop being active, I'll gain weight. Most people would. Those with really high metabolism are rare, and tend to be unhealthy. The question is: will the person stop acting healthy? Personally, I'm likely to stop eating healthy in a stressful situation because eating healthy is something I learned on my own, when i was a teenager. However, I'm very unlikely to stop exercising. In fact, if something bad will happen, I'll probably exercise more. Walking and running with loud music clears my head and calms me down. Close members of my family, however, see any movement as a huge chore. So, we all have a huge weakness for sweets, but seem to have totally different feelings toward physical excersion.  Sure, we share some traits, but we are not all carbon copies of each other. Otherwise, how would you explain my mother being hugely obese, but her mother being fit and slim throughout her life? Maybe the reason you see so many fat mother-daughter teams is the combination of genes AND the fact that everyone in the western world just keeps getting fat due to poor habits and lack of caring, so no surprise that each family gets more than one fat person.

I guess I reacted so strongly to WuKong's post because he made it sound almost inevitable that we'll repeat our parents. It's a very sensitive subject for me ( just explaining why I got so defensive) because of the kids I work with. My school is pretty much in the ghetto, and a bunch of kids have parents who are very well known to be violent/ on welfare/ in prison/ thieves/ drug adducts/ ect. People around here often point at one child or another and say, "It's just a matter of time before he stabs someone, just like his father did" or "what's the point? she'll just be a hooker on welfare, with 7 kids, like her mom". To be completely honest, some of these kids do seem to be exibiting the same traits as their parents, so unless some huge improbable change will occur in their personality, they will repeat their parents. However, many are distinctly different. You can just tell that, at the core, they don't have the same temperament. Some of the kids of the violent parents are well behaved, not because we keep teaching them to play nice, but because they are honestly wired that way.

Parents are a huge influence on us, both genetically and as role models. Still, each of them is not the only influence, and not even the biggest influence. There are a bunch of traits, both important and unimportant, that I share with my mom and dad. You could fill a book with all the similarities, subtle and not so subtle. And yet, I have so many traits that come from neither of them. My parents met in a high school for those gifted in math and physics, and both went on to earn a Master of Engineering. None of their kids are good at math. There are dozens more of such examples.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can't guess what qualities a person had inherited from any particular parent, unless it's apparent already. Look at your potential partner. Listen to your potential partner. You learn a lot about a person by paying attention to that person, not the family. If she says she values education, but doesn't have any books in her house, if she says she loves being active but owns no sneakers, if she smokes and keeps promising to quit, if she claims to value healthy eating, but "rewards" herself with candy, if she says she hates being sweaty, but health is important to her.... then she might not be what she is trying to portray. But if your girl is a huge skiing enthusiast, regularly enters dance competitions and has a degree in nutrition, who cares if her mom is morbidly obese?

[bana]

Wukong: "In any case, I support both men and women using their parents as references. If the person appears different on the surface, then date them longer and find out what are the actual characteristics and beliefs that the parent hold and does their son or daughter have these at their core or are they really different at their source character.

Human nature is to fall back in our comfort zones, what we know and understand. This is why, so often, people repeat their parent's life even those that focus on being nothing like their parent. That's like trying to dodge a semi by focusing on the semi. That's instinct and natural. It takes consciousness/awareness to recognize that and do, for example, as is taught in a motorcycle riding course - look where you want to go, not where you want to avoid; you will go where you look."

C&W: Wukong supports using a parent as a reference. One will 'referance' many things when they make the decision to continue dating someone. Then he makes the wise suggestion to date them longer and find out what their actual beliefs and characteristics are (like you said by 'looking at and listening to your potential partner').

Also I like what he said about 'human nature is to fall back in our comfort zones'. Many people want to be happily married but lack the skill and tools to do so because they're unconsciously modeling what they saw portrayed in their childhood from their parents. I find myself doing that as regards communication with my spouse and constantly have to consciously 'switch over' to proper communication instead of handling things the way my dad does.

And I don't know about you but most people I meet are not obviously exercise nuts nor do they have degrees in nutrition. So if I was thrust into the dating scene, being a little older and wiser, I would refer to many things I observe when making the decision to date or continue dating someone. Knowing some of the things I know now, I would be very interested to compare/contrast a potential mate's view point on health if one or both of their parents were overweight/obese/morbidly obese.

[Clock Watcher]

Looks like my thread got hi-jacked.  

Regardless, FYI, it's over. She is going to move out by the end of the month. Also, her mother is very thin and athletic.  I never met her father, but she has two brothers who are marathon runners.

[bana]

Clock Watcher wrote:

Looks like my thread got hi-jacked.  

Regardless, FYI, it's over. She is going to move out by the end of the month. Also, her mother is very thin and athletic.  I never met her father, but she has two brothers who are marathon runners.

Sorry on both counts. Too bad.

[Cheese&Wine]

Hugs to you, Clock Watcher. I hope you get through the next 10 days alright. Even though, I don't know you and your ex girlfriend personally, based on what you told us, you really did make the right decision. If she is as wonderful as you say, she deserves to find a guy who doesn't mind a fat chick. You deserve to be happy as well. Judging by your posts, you are a really nice guy who makes a great loving partner. Kudos for being strong enough to make the right choice for the both of you. Now, go download lots of comedies to distract yourself from feeling sad.