Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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Leland (Audacity Team)

Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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Why aren't Time, Label, and Note tracks included in the re-fitting?  
Shouldn't they be?

Leland


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Leland (Audacity Team)

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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Leland wrote:
> Why aren't Time, Label, and Note tracks included in the re-fitting?  
> Shouldn't they be?
>
Also, shouldn't the tracks in a project be re-fit if the "Automatically
fit tracks..." preference setting is on?

Leland


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André Pinto

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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In my opinion all the tracks should be re-fitted when the fit feature is called.

"Automatically fit tracks" feature is working ok here. The only problem is the same as above, only audio tracks (mono or stereo) are resized.

André.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Leland <[hidden email]> wrote:
Leland wrote:
> Why aren't Time, Label, and Note tracks included in the re-fitting?
> Shouldn't they be?
>
Also, shouldn't the tracks in a project be re-fit if the "Automatically
fit tracks..." preference setting is on?

Leland


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Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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In reply to this post by Leland (Audacity Team)
> Leland wrote:
> Why aren't Time, Label, and Note tracks included in the re-fitting?  
> Shouldn't they be?

Definitely (IMO) for Time and Label, there is no information actually
missing in the track as a result of collapsing (well, not unless you
must have labels at the same point or close together). Don't know
about Note tracks - maybe you should have to collapse them
manually if you want to?  

> Also, shouldn't the tracks in a project be re-fit if the "Automatically
> fit tracks..." preference setting is on?

They are here on Windows ANSI Release, in the sense I believe it works
i.e. tracks fit without scrolling until the tracks cannot be collapsed further,
then they scroll. Does not that work for you if you start with one track
and keep pressing CTRL + D? But they don't fit back if you undo the
duplications - is that the bug you mean?

But what we should consider IMO when fitting is "on" is the situation
where you drag the bottom of the track down to access the gain or pan
sliders. As it is now, the track will refit once you move either slider.
That's too presumptuous I think - user may have wanted to change
both sliders or mainly just wanted that track higher. I think what might
help here is a button to go back to the height before you dragged, but
I guess that means storing values somewhere? Until then or some better .
suggestion, can we *please* let the user resize the track themselves once
they have dragged it down, or until they force a fit with the shortcut or
menu item?


Gale


 



Leland (Audacity Team)

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:

>> Leland wrote:
>> Why aren't Time, Label, and Note tracks included in the re-fitting?  
>> Shouldn't they be?
>
> Definitely (IMO) for Time and Label, there is no information actually
> missing in the track as a result of collapsing (well, not unless you
> must have labels at the same point or close together). Don't know
> about Note tracks - maybe you should have to collapse them
> manually if you want to?  
>
>> Also, shouldn't the tracks in a project be re-fit if the "Automatically
>> fit tracks..." preference setting is on?
>
> They are here on Windows ANSI Release
Sorry, I didn't mention that they aren't refitting for me when I open a
project with say 20 tracks.  Even with "Automatic..." set, I still have
to use the menu item to refit after opening.
> i.e. tracks fit without scrolling until the tracks cannot be collapsed further,
> then they scroll. Does not that work for you if you start with one track
> and keep pressing CTRL + D? But they don't fit back if you undo the
> duplications - is that the bug you mean?
>
Yes, they do refit in that case and I hadn't thought about the the Undo.
  That and Redo seems to be slightly broken as well.

> But what we should consider IMO when fitting is "on" is the situation
> where you drag the bottom of the track down to access the gain or pan
> sliders. As it is now, the track will refit once you move either slider.

Definitely not good.  I hadn't tried that yet.

> can we *please* let the user resize the track themselves once
> they have dragged it down, or until they force a fit with the shortcut or
> menu item?
>

How about we ONLY do the "Automatic..." thing during track addition and
deletion?  The rest of the time it's up to the user.  If they resize a
track or minimize a track, it stays that way until another track is
added or removed or until they using the menu item.

Leland





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Richard Ash (audacity-help)

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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On Sat, 2009-03-28 at 22:03 -0500, Leland wrote:
> > can we *please* let the user resize the track themselves once
> > they have dragged it down, or until they force a fit with the shortcut or
> > menu item?
>
> How about we ONLY do the "Automatic..." thing during track addition and
> deletion?  The rest of the time it's up to the user.  If they resize a
> track or minimize a track, it stays that way until another track is
> added or removed or until they using the menu item.

That would seem reasonable to me (I don't use the preference, because on
a tiny screen I need the tracks bigger), I can't see any reason why I
would want to force-fit the tracks to the screen at any other point,
given there is a keyboard shortcut and menu item for the job as well.

Do we save the heights of tracks in the project? If this isn't working,
then I guess we should force-fit at project open as well.

Richard


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Vaughan Johnson

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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Richard Ash wrote:
> ...
> Do we save the heights of tracks in the project? ...
>
>  
Yes, I added that about a month ago.

- V

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Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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In reply to this post by Leland (Audacity Team)
Leland (Audacity Team) wrote:
> Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:
>> Leland wrote:
>> Also, shouldn't the tracks in a project be re-fit if the "Automatically
>> fit tracks..." preference setting is on?
>
> They are here on Windows ANSI Release
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't mention that they aren't refitting for me when I open a
>> project with say 20 tracks.  Even with "Automatic..." set, I still have
>> to use the menu item to refit after opening.

What do we want to do about this?  At project opening, "automatically fit vertically zoomed" as currently implemented and "save track heights in project" are incompatible. For example, resize one of your twenty fitted tracks, do some other edit if necessary and save and reopen the project. That one track will be resized when you re-open. But if I reopen a twenty-track project that was automatically fitted at exit (*and saved in 1.3.8*), it reopens fitted due to the saved track heights. Are you still seeing that it doesn't?    

If we make "automatically fit" like you suggested (refit is only done when a track is added or deleted), then I think reopening projects with exactly their saved heights is consistent with that.  

We're getting a fair few user suggestions now that a better/less confusing solution than automatic fit would be a vertical project zoom essentially like the horizontal zoom. This would be one solution to the niggle of having to resize every track of a fitted multi-track project if you want to get an overview of all the waveforms (Expand All Tracks only works if you previously resized a track).  



Gale

Stevethefiddle

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 17:48 -0700, Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:

> Leland (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:
> >> Leland wrote:
> >> Also, shouldn't the tracks in a project be re-fit if the "Automatically
> >> fit tracks..." preference setting is on?
> >
> > They are here on Windows ANSI Release
> >>
> >> Sorry, I didn't mention that they aren't refitting for me when I open a
> >> project with say 20 tracks.  Even with "Automatic..." set, I still have
> >> to use the menu item to refit after opening.
>
> What do we want to do about this?  At project opening, "automatically fit
> vertically zoomed" as currently implemented and "save track heights in
> project" are incompatible. For example, resize one of your twenty fitted
> tracks, do some other edit if necessary and save and reopen the project.
> That one track will be resized when you re-open. But if I reopen a
> twenty-track project that was automatically fitted at exit (*and saved in
> 1.3.8*), it reopens fitted due to the saved track heights. Are you still
> seeing that it doesn't?    
>
> If we make "automatically fit" like you suggested (refit is only done when a
> track is added or deleted), then I think reopening projects with exactly
> their saved heights is consistent with that.  
>
> We're getting a fair few user suggestions now that a better/less confusing
> solution than automatic fit would be a vertical project zoom essentially
> like the horizontal zoom. This would be one solution to the niggle of having
> to resize every track of a fitted multi-track project if you want to get an
> overview of all the waveforms (Expand All Tracks only works if you
> previously resized a track).  

There is a recent discussion on the Audacity forum about this:
http://audacityteam.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11098

One suggestion in that discussion:

"It would be nice if scaling multiple tracks vertically could be
achieved without the need for additional controls. Perhaps one way this
could be done would be if manual vertical size adjustment affected all
selected tracks. This way, if you want to zoom vertically on tracks 1,2
and 4, you just need to select those tracks and as you adjust the
vertical height of one, the vertical height of the other selected tracks
would follow suit."

That would also mean that all tracks could be resized by Ctrl+A before
resizing a track.

Steve

>
>
> Gale
>
>


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Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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| From Steve <[hidden email]>
| Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:52:13 +0100
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

> On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 17:48 -0700, Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > Leland (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > > Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > >> Leland wrote:
> > >> Also, shouldn't the tracks in a project be re-fit if the "Automatically
> > >> fit tracks..." preference setting is on?
> > >
> > > They are here on Windows ANSI Release
> > >>
> > >> Sorry, I didn't mention that they aren't refitting for me when I open a
> > >> project with say 20 tracks.  Even with "Automatic..." set, I still have
> > >> to use the menu item to refit after opening.
> >
> > What do we want to do about this?  At project opening, "automatically fit
> > vertically zoomed" as currently implemented and "save track heights in
> > project" are incompatible. For example, resize one of your twenty fitted
> > tracks, do some other edit if necessary and save and reopen the project.
> > That one track will be resized when you re-open. But if I reopen a
> > twenty-track project that was automatically fitted at exit (*and saved in
> > 1.3.8*), it reopens fitted due to the saved track heights. Are you still
> > seeing that it doesn't?    
> >
> > If we make "automatically fit" like you suggested (refit is only done when a
> > track is added or deleted), then I think reopening projects with exactly
> > their saved heights is consistent with that.  
> >
> > We're getting a fair few user suggestions now that a better/less confusing
> > solution than automatic fit would be a vertical project zoom essentially
> > like the horizontal zoom. This would be one solution to the niggle of having
> > to resize every track of a fitted multi-track project if you want to get an
> > overview of all the waveforms (Expand All Tracks only works if you
> > previously resized a track).  
>
> There is a recent discussion on the Audacity forum about this:
> http://audacityteam.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11098
>
> One suggestion in that discussion:
>
> "It would be nice if scaling multiple tracks vertically could be
> achieved without the need for additional controls. Perhaps one way this
> could be done would be if manual vertical size adjustment affected all
> selected tracks. This way, if you want to zoom vertically on tracks 1,2
> and 4, you just need to select those tracks and as you adjust the
> vertical height of one, the vertical height of the other selected tracks
> would follow suit."
>
> That would also mean that all tracks could be resized by Ctrl+A before
> resizing a track.

Thanks, Steve. OK well zooming selected tracks is probably still another
issue, as no doubt some people would not want to CTRL + A first to
perform an overall vertical zoom, possibly destroying their current
track selections.  

Anyway, no doubt Peter will be moving that Forum suggestion to
Pending Feature Requests on the Wiki.  



Gale


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Stevethefiddle

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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On Sat, 2009-07-04 at 23:38 +0100, Gale Andrews wrote:

> | From Steve <[hidden email]>
> | Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:52:13 +0100
> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?
> > On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 17:48 -0700, Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > > Leland (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > > > Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > > >> Leland wrote:
> > > >> Also, shouldn't the tracks in a project be re-fit if the "Automatically
> > > >> fit tracks..." preference setting is on?
> > > >
> > > > They are here on Windows ANSI Release
> > > >>
> > > >> Sorry, I didn't mention that they aren't refitting for me when I open a
> > > >> project with say 20 tracks.  Even with "Automatic..." set, I still have
> > > >> to use the menu item to refit after opening.
> > >
> > > What do we want to do about this?  At project opening, "automatically fit
> > > vertically zoomed" as currently implemented and "save track heights in
> > > project" are incompatible. For example, resize one of your twenty fitted
> > > tracks, do some other edit if necessary and save and reopen the project.
> > > That one track will be resized when you re-open. But if I reopen a
> > > twenty-track project that was automatically fitted at exit (*and saved in
> > > 1.3.8*), it reopens fitted due to the saved track heights. Are you still
> > > seeing that it doesn't?    
> > >
> > > If we make "automatically fit" like you suggested (refit is only done when a
> > > track is added or deleted), then I think reopening projects with exactly
> > > their saved heights is consistent with that.  
> > >
> > > We're getting a fair few user suggestions now that a better/less confusing
> > > solution than automatic fit would be a vertical project zoom essentially
> > > like the horizontal zoom. This would be one solution to the niggle of having
> > > to resize every track of a fitted multi-track project if you want to get an
> > > overview of all the waveforms (Expand All Tracks only works if you
> > > previously resized a track).  
> >
> > There is a recent discussion on the Audacity forum about this:
> > http://audacityteam.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11098
> >
> > One suggestion in that discussion:
> >
> > "It would be nice if scaling multiple tracks vertically could be
> > achieved without the need for additional controls. Perhaps one way this
> > could be done would be if manual vertical size adjustment affected all
> > selected tracks. This way, if you want to zoom vertically on tracks 1,2
> > and 4, you just need to select those tracks and as you adjust the
> > vertical height of one, the vertical height of the other selected tracks
> > would follow suit."
> >
> > That would also mean that all tracks could be resized by Ctrl+A before
> > resizing a track.
>
> Thanks, Steve. OK well zooming selected tracks is probably still another
> issue, as no doubt some people would not want to CTRL + A first to
> perform an overall vertical zoom, possibly destroying their current
> track selections.

I would have thought that in most cases where a selection had been made,
it would be the selected audio that they would want to resize.


>
> Anyway, no doubt Peter will be moving that Forum suggestion to
> Pending Feature Requests on the Wiki.  

No doubt. And it would probably go well with the requests for making it
easier to move tracks up and down. (for example, shifting a track to the
top)

Steve

>
>
> Gale
>


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Gale (Audacity Team)

Re: Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

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| From Steve <[hidden email]>
| Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:05:33 +0100
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?

> On Sat, 2009-07-04 at 23:38 +0100, Gale Andrews wrote:
> > | From Steve <[hidden email]>
> > | Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:52:13 +0100
> > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Fit vertically doesn't...bug or not?
> > > On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 17:48 -0700, Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > > > Leland (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > > > > Gale (Audacity Team) wrote:
> > > > >> Leland wrote:
> > > > >> Also, shouldn't the tracks in a project be re-fit if the "Automatically
> > > > >> fit tracks..." preference setting is on?
> > > > >
> > > > > They are here on Windows ANSI Release
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sorry, I didn't mention that they aren't refitting for me when I open a
> > > > >> project with say 20 tracks.  Even with "Automatic..." set, I still have
> > > > >> to use the menu item to refit after opening.
> > > >
> > > > What do we want to do about this?  At project opening, "automatically fit
> > > > vertically zoomed" as currently implemented and "save track heights in
> > > > project" are incompatible. For example, resize one of your twenty fitted
> > > > tracks, do some other edit if necessary and save and reopen the project.
> > > > That one track will be resized when you re-open. But if I reopen a
> > > > twenty-track project that was automatically fitted at exit (*and saved in
> > > > 1.3.8*), it reopens fitted due to the saved track heights. Are you still
> > > > seeing that it doesn't?    
> > > >
> > > > If we make "automatically fit" like you suggested (refit is only done when a
> > > > track is added or deleted), then I think reopening projects with exactly
> > > > their saved heights is consistent with that.  
> > > >
> > > > We're getting a fair few user suggestions now that a better/less confusing
> > > > solution than automatic fit would be a vertical project zoom essentially
> > > > like the horizontal zoom. This would be one solution to the niggle of having
> > > > to resize every track of a fitted multi-track project if you want to get an
> > > > overview of all the waveforms (Expand All Tracks only works if you
> > > > previously resized a track).  
> > >
> > > There is a recent discussion on the Audacity forum about this:
> > > http://audacityteam.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11098
> > >
> > > One suggestion in that discussion:
> > >
> > > "It would be nice if scaling multiple tracks vertically could be
> > > achieved without the need for additional controls. Perhaps one way this
> > > could be done would be if manual vertical size adjustment affected all
> > > selected tracks. This way, if you want to zoom vertically on tracks 1,2
> > > and 4, you just need to select those tracks and as you adjust the
> > > vertical height of one, the vertical height of the other selected tracks
> > > would follow suit."
> > >
> > > That would also mean that all tracks could be resized by Ctrl+A before
> > > resizing a track.
> >
> > Thanks, Steve. OK well zooming selected tracks is probably still another
> > issue, as no doubt some people would not want to CTRL + A first to
> > perform an overall vertical zoom, possibly destroying their current
> > track selections.
>
> I would have thought that in most cases where a selection had been made,
> it would be the selected audio that they would want to resize.

Certainly in some cases, but from e-mails to feedback@ it seems there
is a requirement for an overall zoom in addition to or instead of
being able to resize individual tracks in one way or another (selected
or otherwise). The rationale seems to be do a quick scroll down to
check all for level and/or balance. This is somewhat easier if all the
tracks are at a consistent height.



Gale


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