FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Haris Kurtagic

FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


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Orest Halustchak

RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Hi Haris,

 

Map3D asks for the spatial extents first before fetching any of the geometry. The spatial extents will define the extents of the window. The spatial extents function needs to be very quick in this case. For Oracle, you could get it from the r-tree.

 

Thanks,

Orest.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


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Robert Fortin

RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
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Haris Kurtagic

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Can you help me little more, how to get it from R-TREE ?

I know of SDO_TUNE.Extent_OF which is faster for some types of data.

 

BTW, so far I tested , Map calls it twice, once together with Count, second time only SpatialExtents.

 

Thanks,

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Orest Halustchak
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi Haris,

 

Map3D asks for the spatial extents first before fetching any of the geometry. The spatial extents will define the extents of the window. The spatial extents function needs to be very quick in this case. For Oracle, you could get it from the r-tree.

 

Thanks,

Orest.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
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Orest Halustchak

Re: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Oracle saves the root mbr in one of the metadata tables. I don't have access at the moment to check.

Orest.

--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld


From: [hidden email]
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Sent: Mon Nov 17 14:54:09 2008
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

Can you help me little more, how to get it from R-TREE ?

I know of SDO_TUNE.Extent_OF which is faster for some types of data.

 

BTW, so far I tested , Map calls it twice, once together with Count, second time only SpatialExtents.

 

Thanks,

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Orest Halustchak
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi Haris,

 

Map3D asks for the spatial extents first before fetching any of the geometry. The spatial extents will define the extents of the window. The spatial extents function needs to be very quick in this case. For Oracle, you could get it from the r-tree.

 

Thanks,

Orest.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Haris Kurtagic

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Traian Stanev

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Haris Kurtagic

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Yes, I use that info in describe schema to get extents of spatial context.

But I believe that metadata is not MBR of geometries.

 

I wrote as reply to Robert that now I don’t know what SpatialExtents is supposed to return.

 

I assume in Autodesk provider there is special case of SpatialExtents for all geomtries in class.

Shouldn’t we have two function than.

 

SpatialExtents is supposed to return exact MBR of geometries in query ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Orest Halustchak
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:45 PM
To: '[hidden email]'
Subject: Re: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Oracle saves the root mbr in one of the metadata tables. I don't have access at the moment to check.

Orest.

--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld


From: [hidden email]
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Sent: Mon Nov 17 14:54:09 2008
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

Can you help me little more, how to get it from R-TREE ?

I know of SDO_TUNE.Extent_OF which is faster for some types of data.

 

BTW, so far I tested , Map calls it twice, once together with Count, second time only SpatialExtents.

 

Thanks,

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Orest Halustchak
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi Haris,

 

Map3D asks for the spatial extents first before fetching any of the geometry. The spatial extents will define the extents of the window. The spatial extents function needs to be very quick in this case. For Oracle, you could get it from the r-tree.

 

Thanks,

Orest.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Haris Kurtagic

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Hm, but what is SpatialExtent function, exact MBR or not ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:54 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Jason Birch

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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SDO_DIMINFO in the SDO_GEOM_METADATA_TABLE (which has a bunch of user, etc aliases) stores the extents of each layer.  However, this isn’t guaranteed to be the  data extents in real-world situations.

 

SDO_INDEX_METADATA_TABLE appears to store information about the MBR, but I’m not sure how to decode it.  None of the entries in my database contain usable values in SDO_*_EXTENTS fields or in the SDO_ROOT_MBR field (that I can tell).  Do you have to read the value of the SDO_NL_INDEX_TABLE, and then pull the value from that?

 

Jason

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Orest Halustchak
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 14:45
To: '[hidden email]'
Subject: Re: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Oracle saves the root mbr in one of the metadata tables. I don't have access at the moment to check.

Orest.

--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld


From: [hidden email]
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Sent: Mon Nov 17 14:54:09 2008
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

Can you help me little more, how to get it from R-TREE ?

I know of SDO_TUNE.Extent_OF which is faster for some types of data.

 

BTW, so far I tested , Map calls it twice, once together with Count, second time only SpatialExtents.

 

Thanks,

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Orest Halustchak
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi Haris,

 

Map3D asks for the spatial extents first before fetching any of the geometry. The spatial extents will define the extents of the window. The spatial extents function needs to be very quick in this case. For Oracle, you could get it from the r-tree.

 

Thanks,

Orest.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Traian Stanev

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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In reply to this post by Haris Kurtagic
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Theoretically it has to return the MBR of its argument.

 

In practice, it doesn’t need to be exact, since the code that uses it does not need it to be exact.

 

You don’t have a choice anyway, if you want it to perform at all…

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hm, but what is SpatialExtent function, exact MBR or not ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:54 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
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Dan Stoica

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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The column in question is USER_SDO_INDEX_METADATA.SDO_ROOT_MBR

 

Note for geodetic this value is not accurate and brute force calculation should be used.

 

Dan.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Orest Halustchak
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:45 PM
To: '[hidden email]'
Subject: Re: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Oracle saves the root mbr in one of the metadata tables. I don't have access at the moment to check.

Orest.

--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld


From: [hidden email]
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Sent: Mon Nov 17 14:54:09 2008
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

Can you help me little more, how to get it from R-TREE ?

I know of SDO_TUNE.Extent_OF which is faster for some types of data.

 

BTW, so far I tested , Map calls it twice, once together with Count, second time only SpatialExtents.

 

Thanks,

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Orest Halustchak
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi Haris,

 

Map3D asks for the spatial extents first before fetching any of the geometry. The spatial extents will define the extents of the window. The spatial extents function needs to be very quick in this case. For Oracle, you could get it from the r-tree.

 

Thanks,

Orest.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


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Jason Birch

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Doh, I spoke too soon.  USER_SDO_INDEX_METADATA..SDO_ROOT_MBR does actually contain values on my setup, it’s just that my window was cutting it off after the dimensionality info.

 

Jason

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jason Birch
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 15:03
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

SDO_DIMINFO in the SDO_GEOM_METADATA_TABLE (which has a bunch of user, etc aliases) stores the extents of each layer.  However, this isn’t guaranteed to be the  data extents in real-world situations.

 

SDO_INDEX_METADATA_TABLE appears to store information about the MBR, but I’m not sure how to decode it.  None of the entries in my database contain usable values in SDO_*_EXTENTS fields or in the SDO_ROOT_MBR field (that I can tell).  Do you have to read the value of the SDO_NL_INDEX_TABLE, and then pull the value from that?


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Haris Kurtagic

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Traian,

Now I don’t understand you :)

 

I would believe SpatialExtents should return exact MBR value of geometries in Select query.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:04 AM
To: 'FDO Internals Mail List'
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Theoretically it has to return the MBR of its argument.

 

In practice, it doesn’t need to be exact, since the code that uses it does not need it to be exact.

 

You don’t have a choice anyway, if you want it to perform at all…

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hm, but what is SpatialExtent function, exact MBR or not ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:54 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Traian Stanev

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

It’s a question of practicality, not belief. J

 

SpatialExtents exists only so that providers which can provide a faster implementation than the naïve iteration over all features can make that feature accessible. If you want to provide the naïve implementation of iterating over all features and computing the union of their MBRs, then save yourself the effort, since Map already has this fallback.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:34 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Traian,

Now I don’t understand you :)

 

I would believe SpatialExtents should return exact MBR value of geometries in Select query.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:04 AM
To: 'FDO Internals Mail List'
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Theoretically it has to return the MBR of its argument.

 

In practice, it doesn’t need to be exact, since the code that uses it does not need it to be exact.

 

You don’t have a choice anyway, if you want it to perform at all…

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hm, but what is SpatialExtent function, exact MBR or not ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:54 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Haris Kurtagic

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

I think it is very important question.

Autodesk Oracle provider is not returning correct result if (and I think it is) SpatialExtent is supposed to return exact MBR of geometries.

 

I am looking now at SqlSrever provider and there are 2 special cases for Count and SpatialEXtents for whole layer.

For those 2 special cases there is special code and special OptimizedAggregateReader etc...

 

What looks wrong to me is that we used exact SpatialExtent function to return something what doesn’t need to be exact.

 

Shouldn’t be better to have special command or special function to return count, extents of layer etc..

 

Now it looks to me that code of provider is more complicated and also we have function which could or could not return expected result.

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:17 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

It’s a question of practicality, not belief. J

 

SpatialExtents exists only so that providers which can provide a faster implementation than the naïve iteration over all features can make that feature accessible. If you want to provide the naïve implementation of iterating over all features and computing the union of their MBRs, then save yourself the effort, since Map already has this fallback.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:34 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Traian,

Now I don’t understand you :)

 

I would believe SpatialExtents should return exact MBR value of geometries in Select query.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:04 AM
To: 'FDO Internals Mail List'
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Theoretically it has to return the MBR of its argument.

 

In practice, it doesn’t need to be exact, since the code that uses it does not need it to be exact.

 

You don’t have a choice anyway, if you want it to perform at all…

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hm, but what is SpatialExtent function, exact MBR or not ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:54 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Haris Kurtagic

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

I have implemented in King.Oracle special case of SpatialExtents for all geometries in class.

It will not return exact extents of geometries but will return what is written in index meatada (SDO_ROOT_MBR from sdo_index_metadata).

If there is filter set with SelectAggregate command then correct extent will be returned ( using SDO_AGR_MBR Oracle function ).

 

I have implemented in such way because MAP 3D is using SpatialExtents every time when layer is to be displayed and because of that rendering in MAP becomes slow.

 

I think it is not correct that SpatialExtent will not return exact MBR but because MAP 3D is obviously very important FDO client priorities are reordered :)

 

I would suggest ( RFC ? ) that we would have dedicated commands/functions which are used in typical applications.

 

-          command to return just “zoom extent” of layer

-          command to get geometries and keys from window query (envelope intersect)

-          command to get selection based on rectangular window

-          few more...

 

Right now providers are parsing select command and try to discover those special cases which are basically not special cases but standard cases coming from practical use.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:47 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

I think it is very important question.

Autodesk Oracle provider is not returning correct result if (and I think it is) SpatialExtent is supposed to return exact MBR of geometries.

 

I am looking now at SqlSrever provider and there are 2 special cases for Count and SpatialEXtents for whole layer.

For those 2 special cases there is special code and special OptimizedAggregateReader etc...

 

What looks wrong to me is that we used exact SpatialExtent function to return something what doesn’t need to be exact.

 

Shouldn’t be better to have special command or special function to return count, extents of layer etc..

 

Now it looks to me that code of provider is more complicated and also we have function which could or could not return expected result.

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:17 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

It’s a question of practicality, not belief. J

 

SpatialExtents exists only so that providers which can provide a faster implementation than the naïve iteration over all features can make that feature accessible. If you want to provide the naïve implementation of iterating over all features and computing the union of their MBRs, then save yourself the effort, since Map already has this fallback.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:34 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Traian,

Now I don’t understand you :)

 

I would believe SpatialExtents should return exact MBR value of geometries in Select query.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:04 AM
To: 'FDO Internals Mail List'
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Theoretically it has to return the MBR of its argument.

 

In practice, it doesn’t need to be exact, since the code that uses it does not need it to be exact.

 

You don’t have a choice anyway, if you want it to perform at all…

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hm, but what is SpatialExtent function, exact MBR or not ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:54 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Dan Stoica

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Ø  It will not return exact extents of geometries but will return what is written in index meatada (SDO_ROOT_MBR from sdo_index_metadata).

 

Harris, as I said before, watch out for geodetic coordinate systems.

 

Dan.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:29 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

I have implemented in King.Oracle special case of SpatialExtents for all geometries in class.

It will not return exact extents of geometries but will return what is written in index meatada (SDO_ROOT_MBR from sdo_index_metadata).

If there is filter set with SelectAggregate command then correct extent will be returned ( using SDO_AGR_MBR Oracle function ).

 

I have implemented in such way because MAP 3D is using SpatialExtents every time when layer is to be displayed and because of that rendering in MAP becomes slow.

 

I think it is not correct that SpatialExtent will not return exact MBR but because MAP 3D is obviously very important FDO client priorities are reordered :)

 

I would suggest ( RFC ? ) that we would have dedicated commands/functions which are used in typical applications.

 

-          command to return just “zoom extent” of layer

-          command to get geometries and keys from window query (envelope intersect)

-          command to get selection based on rectangular window

-          few more...

 

Right now providers are parsing select command and try to discover those special cases which are basically not special cases but standard cases coming from practical use.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:47 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

I think it is very important question.

Autodesk Oracle provider is not returning correct result if (and I think it is) SpatialExtent is supposed to return exact MBR of geometries.

 

I am looking now at SqlSrever provider and there are 2 special cases for Count and SpatialEXtents for whole layer.

For those 2 special cases there is special code and special OptimizedAggregateReader etc...

 

What looks wrong to me is that we used exact SpatialExtent function to return something what doesn’t need to be exact.

 

Shouldn’t be better to have special command or special function to return count, extents of layer etc..

 

Now it looks to me that code of provider is more complicated and also we have function which could or could not return expected result.

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:17 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

It’s a question of practicality, not belief. J

 

SpatialExtents exists only so that providers which can provide a faster implementation than the naïve iteration over all features can make that feature accessible. If you want to provide the naïve implementation of iterating over all features and computing the union of their MBRs, then save yourself the effort, since Map already has this fallback.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:34 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Traian,

Now I don’t understand you :)

 

I would believe SpatialExtents should return exact MBR value of geometries in Select query.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:04 AM
To: 'FDO Internals Mail List'
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Theoretically it has to return the MBR of its argument.

 

In practice, it doesn’t need to be exact, since the code that uses it does not need it to be exact.

 

You don’t have a choice anyway, if you want it to perform at all…

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hm, but what is SpatialExtent function, exact MBR or not ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:54 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


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Haris Kurtagic

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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Not sure what you mean. SDO_ROOT_MBR is not MBR of geometries.

 

SpatialExtent will not return exact MBR of all geometries for class because priority is speed in MAP 3D.

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dan Stoica
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 5:28 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Ø  It will not return exact extents of geometries but will return what is written in index meatada (SDO_ROOT_MBR from sdo_index_metadata).

 

Harris, as I said before, watch out for geodetic coordinate systems.

 

Dan.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:29 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

I have implemented in King.Oracle special case of SpatialExtents for all geometries in class.

It will not return exact extents of geometries but will return what is written in index meatada (SDO_ROOT_MBR from sdo_index_metadata).

If there is filter set with SelectAggregate command then correct extent will be returned ( using SDO_AGR_MBR Oracle function ).

 

I have implemented in such way because MAP 3D is using SpatialExtents every time when layer is to be displayed and because of that rendering in MAP becomes slow.

 

I think it is not correct that SpatialExtent will not return exact MBR but because MAP 3D is obviously very important FDO client priorities are reordered :)

 

I would suggest ( RFC ? ) that we would have dedicated commands/functions which are used in typical applications.

 

-          command to return just “zoom extent” of layer

-          command to get geometries and keys from window query (envelope intersect)

-          command to get selection based on rectangular window

-          few more...

 

Right now providers are parsing select command and try to discover those special cases which are basically not special cases but standard cases coming from practical use.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:47 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

I think it is very important question.

Autodesk Oracle provider is not returning correct result if (and I think it is) SpatialExtent is supposed to return exact MBR of geometries.

 

I am looking now at SqlSrever provider and there are 2 special cases for Count and SpatialEXtents for whole layer.

For those 2 special cases there is special code and special OptimizedAggregateReader etc...

 

What looks wrong to me is that we used exact SpatialExtent function to return something what doesn’t need to be exact.

 

Shouldn’t be better to have special command or special function to return count, extents of layer etc..

 

Now it looks to me that code of provider is more complicated and also we have function which could or could not return expected result.

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:17 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

It’s a question of practicality, not belief. J

 

SpatialExtents exists only so that providers which can provide a faster implementation than the naïve iteration over all features can make that feature accessible. If you want to provide the naïve implementation of iterating over all features and computing the union of their MBRs, then save yourself the effort, since Map already has this fallback.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:34 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Traian,

Now I don’t understand you :)

 

I would believe SpatialExtents should return exact MBR value of geometries in Select query.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:04 AM
To: 'FDO Internals Mail List'
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Theoretically it has to return the MBR of its argument.

 

In practice, it doesn’t need to be exact, since the code that uses it does not need it to be exact.

 

You don’t have a choice anyway, if you want it to perform at all…

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hm, but what is SpatialExtent function, exact MBR or not ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:54 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
Haris Kurtagic

RE: RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

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In reply to this post by Dan Stoica
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Perhaps I understand you now :)

 

SDO_ROOT_MBR is not even close to layer extent for geodetic CS.

 

Any clue how Autodesk.Oracle provider is calculating index extent from that SDO_ROOT_MBR  for geodetic CS?

 

Rhank you,

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dan Stoica
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 5:28 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Ø  It will not return exact extents of geometries but will return what is written in index meatada (SDO_ROOT_MBR from sdo_index_metadata).

 

Harris, as I said before, watch out for geodetic coordinate systems.

 

Dan.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:29 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

I have implemented in King.Oracle special case of SpatialExtents for all geometries in class.

It will not return exact extents of geometries but will return what is written in index meatada (SDO_ROOT_MBR from sdo_index_metadata).

If there is filter set with SelectAggregate command then correct extent will be returned ( using SDO_AGR_MBR Oracle function ).

 

I have implemented in such way because MAP 3D is using SpatialExtents every time when layer is to be displayed and because of that rendering in MAP becomes slow.

 

I think it is not correct that SpatialExtent will not return exact MBR but because MAP 3D is obviously very important FDO client priorities are reordered :)

 

I would suggest ( RFC ? ) that we would have dedicated commands/functions which are used in typical applications.

 

-          command to return just “zoom extent” of layer

-          command to get geometries and keys from window query (envelope intersect)

-          command to get selection based on rectangular window

-          few more...

 

Right now providers are parsing select command and try to discover those special cases which are basically not special cases but standard cases coming from practical use.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:47 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

I think it is very important question.

Autodesk Oracle provider is not returning correct result if (and I think it is) SpatialExtent is supposed to return exact MBR of geometries.

 

I am looking now at SqlSrever provider and there are 2 special cases for Count and SpatialEXtents for whole layer.

For those 2 special cases there is special code and special OptimizedAggregateReader etc...

 

What looks wrong to me is that we used exact SpatialExtent function to return something what doesn’t need to be exact.

 

Shouldn’t be better to have special command or special function to return count, extents of layer etc..

 

Now it looks to me that code of provider is more complicated and also we have function which could or could not return expected result.

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:17 AM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

It’s a question of practicality, not belief. J

 

SpatialExtents exists only so that providers which can provide a faster implementation than the naïve iteration over all features can make that feature accessible. If you want to provide the naïve implementation of iterating over all features and computing the union of their MBRs, then save yourself the effort, since Map already has this fallback.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:34 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Traian,

Now I don’t understand you :)

 

I would believe SpatialExtents should return exact MBR value of geometries in Select query.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:04 AM
To: 'FDO Internals Mail List'
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Theoretically it has to return the MBR of its argument.

 

In practice, it doesn’t need to be exact, since the code that uses it does not need it to be exact.

 

You don’t have a choice anyway, if you want it to perform at all…

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:22 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hm, but what is SpatialExtent function, exact MBR or not ?

 

Haris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Traian Stanev
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:54 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

 

Yes, just return the bounding box of all the geometries. Map does not need exact BBOX, just an extent it can zoom to in order to show something once you add the layer.

 

Traian

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: RE: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Yes, SDO_AGGR_MBR could be slow.

In Oracle there is index METADATA table with SDO_ROOT_MBR ( perhaps that is what Orest was saying ? ) but that is not correct MBR of geometries.

 

I understood that SelectExtents is supposed to :

return exact MBR of geometries

works for SQL queries, works for subsets of data

 

It looks to me that Map is using SpatialExtents it to get not necessary exact extent of layer (class) not geometries.

 

So my question is, is SpatialExtents supposed to return MBR of geometries ?

 

I think for class extent we should have another command.

 

Haris

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Fortin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:24 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] RE: FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Map will use the SelectExtents function (if is exists) in order to compute the extent of the data set before it starts populating the cache.

The slower the SelectExtents  function is the slower Map rendering will be.  SDO_AGGR_MBR is probably not efficient enough for that purpose.

 

RF

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:36 PM
To: FDO Internals Mail List
Subject: [fdo-internals] FDO Function SpatialExtents

 

Hi,

 

I have implemented support for SelectAggregates in King.Oracle.

I am testing SpatialExtent function and I need help in understanding how clients, MAP 3D , is using it. I am not sure if I understand how is it supposed to be used.

 

I have implemented function using Oracle SDO_AGGR_MBR. That is rather slow process .

What I noticed is that MAP 3D 2009 is calling FDO command SelectAggregates with SpatialExtents function.

That makes rendering of layers very slow in MAP 3D.

 

I know I am asking about non-open source client like MAP 3D but from what I see makes me wonder if I understand SpatialExtents function correctly.

 

Thank you,

Haris


_______________________________________________
fdo-internals mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/fdo-internals
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