FAQ on 64 bit Audacity

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Gale (Audacity Team)
FAQ on 64 bit Audacity
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I think we're being asked often enough now about 64 bit (mainly Vista)
to justify a FAQ. I thought something like this:

"Current versions of Audacity should run on 64-bit systems, and have been
tested on 64-bit Windows Vista and Linux. On Windows and Linux, working
sound card drivers specific to the 64-bit operating system will be required,
so these must be updated if upgrading from a 32-bit to 64-bit operating
system.  Generally speaking, 64-bit systems will use more physical memory
than 32-bit systems. Users upgrading from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit
Windows Vista should take this and the increased system demands of Vista
into account when considering Audacity's <a
href="http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows#sysreq">system
requirements</a>.

Another suggestion for the last sentence (maybe better):

"Users upgrading from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit Windows Vista should
make especially sure their computer is well above Audacity's minimum
<a href="http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows#sysreq">
system requirements</a>.

I figured I might link to this FAQ from the Windows download pages.
Any suggestions for improvement welcome.  


Gale


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Dawson Written
Re: FAQ on 64 bit Audacity
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You may want to mention if 64-bit Windows XP can run Audacity as well.

It may also confuse some 32-bit users, when you say "upgrading from a
32-bit to 64-bit operating system". When the 64-bit versions of Windows
XP (and again with Vista) came out, some users, obviously with 32-bit
computers, were asking if they could simply upgrade to the 64-bit
operating system and were confused when they were told there were 64-bit
computers that could run either 32 or 64-bit. Then the still confused
users would ask if their computers were 64-bit.

Thought I would let you know so you'll be prepared.

Dawson


gale@... wrote:
> I think we're being asked often enough now about 64 bit (mainly Vista)
> to justify a FAQ. I thought something like this:
>
>  


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LRN
Re: FAQ on 64 bit Audacity
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Dawson Written wrote:

> You may want to mention if 64-bit Windows XP can run Audacity as well.
>
> It may also confuse some 32-bit users, when you say "upgrading from a
> 32-bit to 64-bit operating system". When the 64-bit versions of Windows
> XP (and again with Vista) came out, some users, obviously with 32-bit
> computers, were asking if they could simply upgrade to the 64-bit
> operating system and were confused when they were told there were 64-bit
> computers that could run either 32 or 64-bit. Then the still confused
> users would ask if their computers were 64-bit.
>
> Thought I would let you know so you'll be prepared.
>
> Dawson
>
>
> gale@... wrote:
>    
>> I think we're being asked often enough now about 64 bit (mainly Vista)
>> to justify a FAQ. I thought something like this:
>>
>>
>>      
>
>    
Wow. I didn't knew we had 64-bit version of Audacity...

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Gale (Audacity Team)
Re: FAQ on 64 bit Audacity
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| From LRN <lrn1986@...>
| Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:08:57 +0400
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] FAQ on 64 bit Audacity

Hi LRN - Yes the subject should better have been "running Audacity on
64 bit systems". I recall Richard told me that 64 bit Audacity has been
built on Linux, and was a bit slower than 32 bit Audacity on 32 bit hardware.    

> Dawson Written wrote:
> > You may want to mention if 64-bit Windows XP can run Audacity as well.

I guess that may be covered by "Current versions of Audacity should run on
64-bit systems" and the "working sound card drivers" bit, though I suppose
we could add "in principle". My casual impression of XP64 from the web
is that it was unreliable and plagued by issues of non-existent/poor drivers,
and I've seen some similar comments on the Forum, so Audacity might have
problems on that score. I think it should run OK with decent sound card
drivers.


> > It may also confuse some 32-bit users, when you say "upgrading from a
> > 32-bit to 64-bit operating system". When the 64-bit versions of Windows
> > XP (and again with Vista) came out, some users, obviously with 32-bit
> > computers, were asking if they could simply upgrade to the 64-bit
> > operating system and were confused when they were told there were 64-bit
> > computers that could run either 32 or 64-bit. Then the still confused
> > users would ask if their computers were 64-bit.

Well, if it's not overkill then, we could say:

"...On Windows and Linux, working sound card drivers specific to the
64-bit operating system will be required. Upgrading from a 32-bit to
64-bit operating system can only be done on a 64-bit capable computer,
and the sound card drivers must also be updated to a 64 bit version."

I have not mentioned Mac. My understanding is that basically this just
works in OS X 10.5 - if the Mac is 64 bit, 32 bit Audacity works whether
the sound device is 32 bit or 64 bit. Corrections welcome though.


Gale



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


"Current versions of Audacity should run on 64-bit systems, and have been
tested on 64-bit Windows Vista and Linux. On Windows and Linux, working
sound card drivers specific to the 64-bit operating system will be required,
so these must be updated if upgrading from a 32-bit to 64-bit operating
system.  Generally speaking, 64-bit systems will use more physical memory
than 32-bit systems. Users upgrading from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit
Windows Vista should take this and the increased system demands of Vista
into account when considering Audacity's <a
href="http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows#sysreq">system
requirements</a>.

Another suggestion for the last sentence (maybe better):

"Users upgrading from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit Windows Vista should
make especially sure their computer is well above Audacity's minimum
<a href="http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows#sysreq">
system requirements</a>.


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Dawson Written
Re: FAQ on 64 bit Audacity
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I'm currently using 64-bit Linux (with Audacity) most of the time, but I
do use 64-bit and 32-bit XP on 64-bit hardware from time to time. So
I'll try to answer these topics with the help of my past experiences
[hopefully with accuracy ;-)].

Gale Andrews wrote:
> Hi LRN - Yes the subject should better have been "running Audacity on
> 64 bit systems". I recall Richard told me that 64 bit Audacity has been
> built on Linux, and was a bit slower than 32 bit Audacity on 32 bit hardware.
>  
That sounds like a better subject title.
It's true that the alignment matching the hardware makes somewhat faster
code, but I think what helps is that the wider pointers give
applications more memory to work with, especially if it's not virtual.
For example, XP32 only allows 2GB (or 3GB with a boot parameter
included) of addressable memory for applications, XP64 opens that up a
whole lot more. Makes a big difference when working with large amount
data that requires that much more memory for processing.
> I guess that may be covered by "Current versions of Audacity should run on
> 64-bit systems" and the "working sound card drivers" bit, though I suppose
> we could add "in principle". My casual impression of XP64 from the web
> is that it was unreliable and plagued by issues of non-existent/poor drivers,
> and I've seen some similar comments on the Forum, so Audacity might have
> problems on that score. I think it should run OK with decent sound card
> drivers.
>
>  
When I use XP64, at first that was the kicker, lack of drivers. Now with
some exceptions (legacy hardware, companies eager to jump on the
Vista-and-leaving-XP-behind bandwagon, etc.), XP64 is getting support. A
Microsoft workaround would be to have a dual-boot system and use the
32-bit drivers in the 32-bit OS. I've never used a virtual OS, but that
would seem to work, too.

XP64 runs well with 32-bit applications also, just as long as you keep
32-bit drivers off. There are times where the 32-bit drivers do not
specify 32 or 64-bits and their installers will blindly do their evil
and that is when I had the unstabilities. Remove them and things work again.
> Well, if it's not overkill then, we could say:
>
> "...On Windows and Linux, working sound card drivers specific to the
> 64-bit operating system will be required. Upgrading from a 32-bit to
> 64-bit operating system can only be done on a 64-bit capable computer,
> and the sound card drivers must also be updated to a 64 bit version."
>
>  
That should cover it and reduce further inquiries. If you think that is
too much information all at once, just split it up with smaller
questions and answers.
> I have not mentioned Mac. My understanding is that basically this just
> works in OS X 10.5 - if the Mac is 64 bit, 32 bit Audacity works whether
> the sound device is 32 bit or 64 bit. Corrections welcome though.
>  

Can't help you there. You just making that one statement, already shows
you know more than I. :-D

> "Current versions of Audacity should run on 64-bit systems, and have been
> tested on 64-bit Windows Vista and Linux. On Windows and Linux, working
> sound card drivers specific to the 64-bit operating system will be required,
> so these must be updated if upgrading from a 32-bit to 64-bit operating
> system.  Generally speaking, 64-bit systems will use more physical memory
> than 32-bit systems. Users upgrading from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit
> Windows Vista should take this and the increased system demands of Vista
> into account when considering Audacity's <a
> href="http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows#sysreq">system
> requirements</a>.
>
> Another suggestion for the last sentence (maybe better):
>
> "Users upgrading from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit Windows Vista should
> make especially sure their computer is well above Audacity's minimum
> <a href="http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows#sysreq">
> system requirements</a>.
>
>  
Sounds good to me.

Hope that helps,
Dawson

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Richard Ash (audacity-help)
Re: FAQ on 64 bit Audacity
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On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 14:55 -0500, Dawson Written wrote:
> > I have not mentioned Mac. My understanding is that basically this just
> > works in OS X 10.5 - if the Mac is 64 bit, 32 bit Audacity works whether
> > the sound device is 32 bit or 64 bit. Corrections welcome though.
> Can't help you there. You just making that one statement, already shows
> you know more than I. :-D

I would suggest that we split the answer by operating system, so that
each of them can be simpler and easier to follow.

The state of play on Mac is actually simpler than elsewhere, because
Apple have worked very hard on interoperability.

There is only one version of OS X, which can be installed on 64-bit or
32-bit hardware. It is unlikely that users ever have to install their
own drivers, but if they do then there is a single set of drivers for
that OS X version, regardless of hardware. So complications like 32-bit
OS on 64-bit hardware don't show up.

For OS X 10.4 and older, there is no such thing as a 64-bit
application. All applications are 32-bit code. They may well use 64-bit
parts of the run-time environment, but that is entirely hidden under the
bonnet of the operating system.

In 10.5 it is possible to build a graphical 64-bit application, which
will then be restricted to 64-bit installations of OS X only. This is
the exception rather than the rule, with 32-bit applications being the
norm. Most applications that do have a 64-bit build will do so via an
extended Universal Binary, which will in fact have three or four copies
of the application in it, covering 32-bit PPC, x86, IA64 and 32-bit PPC
architectures (the last being a rarity).

The Audacity releases are a Universal binary for  at least 10.4 and
newer, so they contain 32-bit PPC and x86 code, and will run on any OS X
system on any hardware that is supported by the OS.

The sound device is not going to be 64-bit (you can get 64-bit PCI
slots, but they are like hen's teeth), the hardware in almost all
systems with 64-bit CPUs is accessed over 32-bit buses. The important
thing as Dawson has said is that the drivers must match the OS kernel -
trying to load 32-bit drivers into a 64-bit kernel or vice versa is a
recipe for disasters (It could be argued that an OS design (executeable
format?) that makes it possible to even try is a disaster zone, but that
is a separate issue).

Richard


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Gale (Audacity Team)
Re: FAQ on 64 bit Audacity
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| From Richard Ash <richard@...>
| Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:18:12 +0100
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] FAQ on 64 bit Audacity
> On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 14:55 -0500, Dawson Written wrote:
> > > I have not mentioned Mac. My understanding is that basically this just
> > > works in OS X 10.5 - if the Mac is 64 bit, 32 bit Audacity works whether
> > > the sound device is 32 bit or 64 bit. Corrections welcome though.
> > Can't help you there. You just making that one statement, already shows
> > you know more than I. :-D
>
> I would suggest that we split the answer by operating system, so that
> each of them can be simpler and easier to follow.

Richard,

Thanks for your comments about Mac. The below is what I've currently
come up with. Unless you have some specific Linux text, I don't think
there is enough to make Linux its own paragraph. I don't think there
is anything extra needed to say on Mac if users have a third-party sound
device like an M-Audio card or interface is there?


"Does Audacity run on 64-bit systems?

There is no 64-bit version of Audacity, but in principle it should run on 64-bit
systems subject to the sound device having appropriate drivers. Sufficient
RAM must be available to run Audacity smoothly and support the greater
demands of 64-bit systems compared to 32-bit.

On 64-bit versions of Windows XP, Windows Vista and Linux, sound device
drivers specific to the 64-bit operating system are essential. If upgrading
from a 32-bit to 64-bit operating system, a 64-bit capable computer is
required, and the sound device drivers must also be updated to a 64-bit
version.

Users upgrading from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit Windows Vista should
make especially sure their computer is well above Audacity's minimum <a
href="http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows#sysreq">
system requirements for Windows</a>.

On Mac 64-bit systems, the Beta version of Audacity is required. OS X 10.5
supports both 64-bit and 32-bit processors equally well, with few if any
issues with the supplied system drivers."


Gale




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Gale (Audacity Team)
Re: FAQ on 64 bit Audacity
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Hi

So if there are no more comments, I'll go with the below text, though
perhaps in "On Mac 64-bit systems, the Beta version of Audacity is
required" I should say "recommended"?  The reason I'm mentioning
it is that generally 1.2.5/6 seems problematic on OS X 10.5, especially
10.5.4 (shortcuts activating in file save dialogues in particular).


Thanks

Gale




| From Gale Andrews <gale@...>
| Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:24:14 +0100
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] FAQ on 64 bit Audacity

> Richard,
>
> Thanks for your comments about Mac. The below is what I've currently
> come up with. Unless you have some specific Linux text, I don't think
> there is enough to make Linux its own paragraph. I don't think there
> is anything extra needed to say on Mac if users have a third-party sound
> device like an M-Audio card or interface is there?
>
>
> "Does Audacity run on 64-bit systems?
>
> There is no 64-bit version of Audacity, but in principle it should run on 64-bit
> systems subject to the sound device having appropriate drivers. Sufficient
> RAM must be available to run Audacity smoothly and support the greater
> demands of 64-bit systems compared to 32-bit.
>
> On 64-bit versions of Windows XP, Windows Vista and Linux, sound device
> drivers specific to the 64-bit operating system are essential. If upgrading
> from a 32-bit to 64-bit operating system, a 64-bit capable computer is
> required, and the sound device drivers must also be updated to a 64-bit
> version.
>
> Users upgrading from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit Windows Vista should
> make especially sure their computer is well above Audacity's minimum <a
> href="http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows#sysreq">
> system requirements for Windows</a>.
>
> On Mac 64-bit systems, the Beta version of Audacity is required. OS X 10.5
> supports both 64-bit and 32-bit processors equally well, with few if any
> issues with the supplied system drivers."




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