EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES

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Gale Andrews
Re: EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES
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In reply to this post by Martyn Shaw-2

| From Martyn Shaw <martynshaw99@...>
| Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:25:44 +0100
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES

> Gale Andrews wrote:
> ...
> > Martyn, it's struck me looking at the Transport menu that perhaps
> > "Play While Recording" isn't clear (described like that, you could
> > easily say software playthrough does just that).
>
> True.
> > Suggestions:
> >
> > * "Play While Recording New"
> > * "Overdub Recording"
> > * "Multi-Track Recording" (correct, but I don't like it for newbies)
>
> None of these I like.  How about "Playback while recording" (a bit long)
> > * Change "Software Playthrough" to "Monitor While Recording"
>
> "Listen To Input While Recording" is more descriptive but "Monitor
> While Recording" is shorter, so I'd go with that.

Don't think "Playback While Recording" completely avoids the fundamental
problem of "Play While Recording" when used with "Software Playthrough".

Is it enough just to change "Software Playthrough" to "Monitor While
Recording"?  I suspect perhaps not, but if we made it "Monitored
Recording" it's shorter and more in keeping with "Sound Activated
Recording".  

The only other alternative I thought of for "Play While Recording" was to
turn it on its head: "Record While Playing". I don't know if I like it
and I think we might then have to change the Preference to match.    

Well, I had one another idea, "Full Duplex Recording", but would go
against all my principles of keeping it intelligible for newbies...  :=)
Is that usage correct or only colloquial? If correct, could we make this
and "Software Playthrough" more intelligible visually (e.g. red and
green icon for the first, speaker and red icon for the second)?

Do you agree about SHIFT + T for the Timer Record shortcut,
Martyn?  


Gale

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Gale Andrews
Re: EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES
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| From Vaughan Johnson <vaughan@...>
| Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:11:30 -0700
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES
> No prob. I'm fine with just "Overdub", especially if it's checked by
> default.

It isn't currently checked by default, but I'm inclined to think it
should be.

I think "Overdub Recording" (or "Overdubbed Recording") is
more correct. This isn't a command (verb), it's a type of recording
which we are setting (on or off). Same argument against "Play
While Recording" I guess.

>
> For the other, only "Software Playthrough" seems correct to me, and the
> others unclear ("playback while recording") could mean the same thing as
> overdub).

Agree with that, though I think "Monitored Recording" has rather more
chance of being understood by unprepared novices. But see below.

 
> But I don't think that one necessarily should be in the menu.
> I wouldn't expect people change it often, and it's rather a geeky detail.

Anyone who does a combination of USB turntable recording and
"stereo mix" recording would be repeatedly turning it on and off
(because that is the only simple way to hear what you're
recording through the computer speakers with those type of
turntables).  On the whole I think it's better left in (off by default
as now). It's referred to as "software playthrough" in most USB
turntable and many other USB device instructions, so on those
grounds at any rate might be better left as named now?  


Gale


> >  
> >> Gale Andrews wrote:
> >>    
> >>> | ...
> >>>
> >>> Martyn, it's struck me looking at the Transport menu that perhaps
> >>> "Play While Recording" isn't clear (described like that, you could
> >>> easily say software playthrough does just that). Suggestions:
> >>>
> >>> * "Play While Recording New"
> >>> * "Overdub Recording"
> >>> * "Multi-Track Recording" (correct, but I don't like it for newbies)
> >>> * Change "Software Playthrough" to "Monitor While Recording"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>      
> >> I vote for "Overdub Recording".
> >>
> >> - V
> >>



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Richard Ash (audacity-help)
Re: EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES
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Gale Andrews wrote:

> | From Vaughan Johnson <vaughan@...>
>> For the other, only "Software Playthrough" seems correct to me, and the
>> others unclear ("playback while recording") could mean the same thing as
>> overdub).
>
> Agree with that, though I think "Monitored Recording" has rather more
> chance of being understood by unprepared novices. But see below.
>
>> But I don't think that one necessarily should be in the menu.
>> I wouldn't expect people change it often, and it's rather a geeky
>> detail.
>
> Anyone who does a combination of USB turntable recording and
> "stereo mix" recording would be repeatedly turning it on and off
> On the whole I think it's better left in (off by default
> as now). It's referred to as "software playthrough" in most USB
> turntable and many other USB device instructions, so on those
> grounds at any rate might be better left as named now?

Software Playthrough is I think a term taken from OS X, rather than
actually invented by us. I agree that some users see it quite a bit if
they have input devices that are in capable of hardware monitoring. I feel
strongly that it's description shouldn't contain the word "play" or
"playback" because that implies playing something that has already been
recorded, which is not what we are doing.

I think Monitor is the right word, because that is what it is for. There
is in Experimental.h a define to make monitoring happen all the time that
playback isn't, which is off because we end up with a record cursor on
screen. If that gets fixed, then monitoring isn't tied to recording or
playback. Even as it stands, you can hear what the input is doing without
recording it - you just have to enable Software Playthrough and then
right-click on the record VU meters and select "Monitor Input". As well as
the VUs working, the sound is played through.

On that basis "Monitor Input" might be a candidate, although it's not a
good one because it doesn't say whether you are monitoring audibly or
visibly. (Hardware systems rarely have this problem, because the monitor
switch usually controls both audio out and the VU meters. They get away
with using the word Monitor as well).

Richard


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Martyn Shaw-2
Re: EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES
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OK, thanks for all the input. I went with:
Overdub (on by default)
Software Playthrough (off be default)
Added Shift+T as a shortcut for Timer Record.

Hope that's OK for now.
Martyn

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Martyn Shaw-2
Re: EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES
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So can I now remove SmartRecordDialog.cpp/.h from CVS?  If so, how
without mucking up previous tags/branches etc?  Can I just use
TortoiseCVS->Remove or will that muck things up for other users?

TTFN
Martyn

Martyn Shaw wrote:
> OK, thanks for all the input. I went with:
> Overdub (on by default)
> Software Playthrough (off be default)
> Added Shift+T as a shortcut for Timer Record.
>
> Hope that's OK for now.
> Martyn
>

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Richard Ash (audacity-help)
Re: EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES
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On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 01:18 +0100, Martyn Shaw wrote:
> So can I now remove SmartRecordDialog.cpp/.h from CVS?  If so, how
> without mucking up previous tags/branches etc?  Can I just use
> TortoiseCVS->Remove or will that muck things up for other users?

Yes, just do CVS remove followed by CVS commit to loose the file from
the current working revision. No other revisions or branches will be
affected - that's the point of version control.

Richard


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Gale Andrews
Re: EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES
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| From "Richard Ash" <richard@...>
| Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:28:55 -0000 (GMT)
| Subject: [Audacity-devel] EXPERIMENTAL_MODULES

> Gale Andrews wrote:
> > | From Vaughan Johnson <vaughan@...>
> >> For the other, only "Software Playthrough" seems correct to me, and the
> >> others unclear ("playback while recording") could mean the same thing as
> >> overdub).
> >
> > Agree with that, though I think "Monitored Recording" has rather more
> > chance of being understood by unprepared novices. But see below.
> >
> >> But I don't think that one necessarily should be in the menu.
> >> I wouldn't expect people change it often, and it's rather a geeky
> >> detail.
> >
> > Anyone who does a combination of USB turntable recording and
> > "stereo mix" recording would be repeatedly turning it on and off
> > On the whole I think it's better left in (off by default
> > as now). It's referred to as "software playthrough" in most USB
> > turntable and many other USB device instructions, so on those
> > grounds at any rate might be better left as named now?
>
> Software Playthrough is I think a term taken from OS X, rather than
> actually invented by us. I agree that some users see it quite a bit if
> they have input devices that are in capable of hardware monitoring. I feel
> strongly that it's description shouldn't contain the word "play" or
> "playback" because that implies playing something that has already been
> recorded, which is not what we are doing.
>
> I think Monitor is the right word, because that is what it is for. There
> is in Experimental.h a define to make monitoring happen all the time that
> playback isn't, which is off because we end up with a record cursor on
> screen. If that gets fixed, then monitoring isn't tied to recording or
> playback. Even as it stands, you can hear what the input is doing without
> recording it - you just have to enable Software Playthrough and then
> right-click on the record VU meters and select "Monitor Input". As well as
> the VUs working, the sound is played through.
>
> On that basis "Monitor Input" might be a candidate, although it's not a
> good one because it doesn't say whether you are monitoring audibly or
> visibly. (Hardware systems rarely have this problem, because the monitor
> switch usually controls both audio out and the VU meters. They get away
> with using the word Monitor as well).

I do think some phrase with "monitor(ing)" is more understandable
for novices (especially in a menu where you don't have space to explain it);
plus it corresponds to "Start Monitoring" in the menu of the VU recording
meter, as Richard said.    

"Software playthrough" however does already meet your requirement that
the words "play" and "playback" aren't used, and to those that are
knowledgeable, "software" suggests this playthrough will have delay.

I note that if you Google "software playthrough", about 85 of the first
100 results refer to Audacity and/or USB turntables, so from that
perspective I do worry a bit about a change to a completely different
term. How about "Software Monitoring"? It seems to be accepted as a
term by some interface manufacturers (M-Audio, Edirol) and is used in
Logic Pro. It's near enough to "software playthrough" to avoid most of the
problems with a complete name change, and (maybe) implies that the
monitoring is audible. Or perhaps I am making too much of the problems
of a name change. Either way, I think I'm siding with Richard that now might
be the time to change "Software Playthrough" to some variant of "monitor(ing)"

I still don't like "Overdub" because it is verb as well as a noun; much
rather it was "Overdubbing".

When we have decided, we must match the short wording in the menu
with that in Preferences. And probably the preference description for
"Software Playthrough" ("play new track while recording it") should change,
given you don't have to record when it's checked. USB turntable afficionados
certainly get fooled by that when they want to play their LPs through the
computer without recording.


Gale
 



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