ERROR 6: No translation for Double_Stereographic to PROJ.4 format is known.

[Hermann Peifer]

Hi,

I see that there is a Trac ticket related to some problems with the
Double_Stereographic projection: http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/2487

... but the problem seems to continue. Can this be fixed?

Hermann


ERROR 6: No translation for Double_Stereographic to PROJ.4 format is known.
Failed to create coordinate transformation between the
following coordinate systems.  This may be because they
are not transformable, or because projection services
(PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded.
Source:
PROJCS["Stereo_70",
     GEOGCS["GCS_Dealul_Piscului_1970",
         DATUM["Dealul_Piscului_1970",
             SPHEROID["Krasovsky_1940",6378245.0,298.3]],
         PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0],
         UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]],
     PROJECTION["Double_Stereographic"],
     PARAMETER["False_Easting",500000.0],
     PARAMETER["False_Northing",500000.0],
     PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Origin",25.0],
     PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",0.99975],
     PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Origin",46.0],
     UNIT["Meter",1.0]]
Target:
GEOGCS["WGS 84",
     DATUM["WGS_1984",
         SPHEROID["WGS 84",6378137,298.257223563,
             AUTHORITY["EPSG","7030"]],
         AUTHORITY["EPSG","6326"]],
     PRIMEM["Greenwich",0,
         AUTHORITY["EPSG","8901"]],
     UNIT["degree",0.01745329251994328,
         AUTHORITY["EPSG","9122"]],
     AUTHORITY["EPSG","4326"]]



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[Frank Warmerdam]

Hermann Peifer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I see that there is a Trac ticket related to some problems with the
> Double_Stereographic projection: http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/2487
>
> ... but the problem seems to continue. Can this be fixed?

Hermann,

As far as I know we are still in the same situation where Double Stereographic
is not supported by PROJ.4.   I don't know how to resolve this.  We really
need someone like Gerald to implement the underlying projection formulas.  :-)

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent

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[OvV_HN]

I don't get it. I always thought the existing PROJ (and libproj) function
sterea was a full implementation of the double stereographic projection,
suited for Dutch RD, New Brunswick / Prince Edward Island stereo and
Romanian Stereo 70.

Oscar van Vlijmen


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Warmerdam" <[hidden email]>
To: "PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Proj] ERROR 6: No translation for Double_Stereographic to
PROJ.4 format is known.

> Hermann Peifer wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I see that there is a Trac ticket related to some problems with the
>> Double_Stereographic projection: http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/2487
>>
>> ... but the problem seems to continue. Can this be fixed?
>
> Hermann,
>
> As far as I know we are still in the same situation where Double
> Stereographic
> is not supported by PROJ.4.   I don't know how to resolve this.  We really
> need someone like Gerald to implement the underlying projection formulas.
> :-)
>
> Best regards,
> --
> ---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
> I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
> [hidden email]
> light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
> and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
>
> _______________________________________________
> Proj mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj
>

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[Frank Warmerdam]

OvV_HN wrote:
> I don't get it. I always thought the existing PROJ (and libproj) function
> sterea was a full implementation of the double stereographic projection,
> suited for Dutch RD, New Brunswick / Prince Edward Island stereo and
> Romanian Stereo 70.

Oscar,

Well, that is possible.  Is someone willing to do some leg work confirming
if that is the case, and documenting the correct formulation of the
coordinate systems described in http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/2487
for PROJ.4?  Some sample test points would also be helpful.  Given that
I would be happy to update GDAL to support double stereographic and
update some other resources.

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent

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[Fernando Javier Luyo Zegarra]

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Hello,

I'm developed a routine for transforming coordinates of points which are in PSAD56 Zone 18S (srid = 24878) to Wgs84 Zone 18s (srid = 32718)

The items are stored in the fields "geom" the table "MyTable" (srid = 24878).

To perform the operation using the following syntax:


       select Transform (geom, 32718) from MyTable


Reviewing the results found that there is an error:


Example:

Point in Psad56 Zn 18s

        X = 264365.2955 Y = 8665287.3660 Z = 0.0000

The result of the transformation is:

        X = 264366.1196 Y = 8665292.17 Z = 0.0000

However, the same point in cartografia WGS84 Zone 18S has the following coordinates:

        X = 264143.0640 Y = 8664919.0231 Z = 0.0000

Apparently the SRID of the parameters are not properly used or applied incorrectly the function Transform ()

While waiting for your help


Fernando Luyo
pd: Sorry for my bad English

**************************************************

Hola

Estoy elaborando una rutina para transformar coordenadas de puntos que estan en PSAD56 Zona 18S (srid=24878) a Wgs84 Zona 18s (srid=32718)

Los puntos estan almacenados en el campo "geom" de la tabla "MyTable" (srid=24878).


Para realizar la operacion estoy usando la siguiente sintaxis:


select Transform(geom,32718) from MyTable

Al revisar los resultados encontre que hay un error :

Ejemplo :

Punto en Psad56 Zn 18s

X = 264365.2955     Y = 8665287.3660     Z = 0.0000

El resultado de la transformacion es:

X = 264366.1196     Y = 8665292.17       Z = 0.0000

Sin embargo, el mismo punto en cartografia en WGS84 Zona 18S tiene las siguientes coordenadas:

X = 264143.0640     Y = 8664919.0231     Z = 0.0000

Al parecer los parametros de los SRID usado no estan correctos o estoy aplicando mal la funcion Transform()

A la espera de su ayuda

saludos

Fernando Luyo

**************************************************

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[Clifford J Mugnier]

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Dear Fernando:

 

What country is this, and what parameters did you use.  I suspect you're in Venezuela ... please confirm.

 

Estan usted en la Republica de Venezuela?  Esta verdad?

 

C. Mugnier

Louisiana State University

---

From: [hidden email] on behalf of Fernando Javier Luyo Zegarra
Sent: Tue 31-Mar-09 16:11
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Proj] Error during the coordinate transformation‏

Hello,

I'm developed a routine for transforming coordinates of points which are in PSAD56 Zone 18S (srid = 24878) to Wgs84 Zone 18s (srid = 32718)

The items are stored in the fields "geom" the table "MyTable" (srid = 24878).

To perform the operation using the following syntax:


       select Transform (geom, 32718) from MyTable


Reviewing the results found that there is an error:


Example:

Point in Psad56 Zn 18s

        X = 264365.2955 Y = 8665287.3660 Z = 0.0000

The result of the transformation is:

        X = 264366.1196 Y = 8665292.17 Z = 0.0000

However, the same point in cartografia WGS84 Zone 18S has the following coordinates:

        X = 264143.0640 Y = 8664919.0231 Z = 0.0000

Apparently the SRID of the parameters are not properly used or applied incorrectly the function Transform ()

While waiting for your help


Fernando Luyo
pd: Sorry for my bad English
**************************************************

Hola

Estoy elaborando una rutina para transformar coordenadas de puntos que estan en PSAD56 Zona 18S (srid=24878) a Wgs84 Zona 18s (srid=32718)

Los puntos estan almacenados en el campo "geom" de la tabla "MyTable" (srid=24878).


Para realizar la operacion estoy usando la siguiente sintaxis:


select Transform(geom,32718) from MyTable

Al revisar los resultados encontre que hay un error :

Ejemplo :

Punto en Psad56 Zn 18s

X = 264365.2955     Y = 8665287.3660     Z = 0.0000

El resultado de la transformacion es:

X = 264366.1196     Y = 8665292.17       Z = 0.0000

Sin embargo, el mismo punto en cartografia en WGS84 Zona 18S tiene las siguientes coordenadas:

X = 264143.0640     Y = 8664919.0231     Z = 0.0000

Al parecer los parametros de los SRID usado no estan correctos o estoy aplicando mal la funcion Transform()

A la espera de su ayuda< br>
saludos

Fernando Luyo

**************************************************

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[Frank Warmerdam]

Fernando Javier Luyo Zegarra wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I'm developed a routine for transforming coordinates of points which are
> in PSAD56 Zone 18S (srid = 24878) to Wgs84 Zone 18s (srid = 32718)
>
> The items are stored in the fields "geom" the table "MyTable" (srid =
> 24878).
>
> To perform the operation using the following syntax:
>
>
>        select Transform (geom, 32718) from MyTable
>
>
> Reviewing the results found that there is an error:
>
>
> Example:
>
> Point in Psad56 Zn 18s
>
>         X = 264365.2955 Y = 8665287.3660 Z = 0.0000
>
> The result of the transformation is:
>
>         X = 264366.1196 Y = 8665292.17 Z = 0.0000
>
> However, the same point in cartografia WGS84 Zone 18S has the following
> coordinates:
>
>         X = 264143.0640 Y = 8664919.0231 Z = 0.0000
>
> Apparently the SRID of the parameters are not properly used or applied
> incorrectly the function Transform ()

Fernando,

I would encourage you to determine what PROJ.4 init strings are associated
with 32718 and 24878.  It looks like there is a missing or incorrect datum
shift being applied.

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent

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[Fernando Javier Luyo Zegarra]

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Hi

The code corresponds to Perú
Fernando

---

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:17:29 -0500
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Proj] Error during the coordinate transformation?

Dear Fernando:

 

What country is this, and what parameters did you use.  I suspect you're in Venezuela ... please confirm.

 

Estan usted en la Republica de Venezuela?  Esta verdad?

 

C. Mugnier

Louisiana State University

---

From: [hidden email] on behalf of Fernando Javier Luyo Zegarra
Sent: Tue 31-Mar-09 16:11
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Proj] Error during the coordinate transformation‏

Hello,

I'm developed a routine for transforming coordinates of points which are in PSAD56 Zone 18S (srid = 24878) to Wgs84 Zone 18s (srid = 32718)

The items are stored in the fields "geom" the table "MyTable" (srid = 24878).

To perform the operation using the following syntax:


       select Transform (geom, 32718) from MyTable


Reviewing the results found that there is an error:


Example:

Point in Psad56 Zn 18s

        X = 264365.2955 Y = 8665287.3660 Z = 0.0000

The result of the transformation is:

        X = 264366.1196 Y = 8665292.17 Z = 0.0000

However, the same point in cartografia WGS84 Zone 18S has the following coordinates:

        X = 264143.0640 Y = 8664919.0231 Z = 0.0000

Apparently the SRID of the parameters are not properly used or applied incorrectly the function Transform ()

While waiting for your help


Fernando Luyo
pd: Sorry for my bad English
**************************************************

Hola

Estoy elaborando una rutina para transformar coordenadas de puntos que estan en PSAD56 Zona 18S (srid=24878) a Wgs84 Zona 18s (srid=32718)

Los puntos estan almacenados en el campo "geom" de la tabla "MyTable" (srid=24878).


Para realizar la operacion estoy usando la siguiente sintaxis:


select Transform(geom,32718) from MyTable

Al revisar los resultados encontre que hay un error :

Ejemplo :

Punto en Psad56 Zn 18s

X = 264365.2955     Y = 8665287.3660     Z = 0.0000

El resultado de la transformacion es:

X = 264366.1196     Y = 8665292.17       Z = 0.0000

Sin embargo, el mismo punto en cartografia en WGS84 Zona 18S tiene las siguientes coordenadas:

X = 264143.0640     Y = 8664919.0231     Z = 0.0000

Al parecer los parametros de los SRID usado no estan correctos o estoy aplicando mal la funcion Transform()

A la espera de su ayuda< br>
saludos

Fernando Luyo

**************************************************

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[Clifford J Mugnier]

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

Fernando,

 

Check out my column on Perú in Photogrammetric Engineering and Remote Sensing from May of 2006.  I have more than one set of parameters listed between PSAD56 and WGS84.  (One is from the U.S. Military, and a different one is from the Instituto Geografico Militar in Perú.)

 

www.ASPRS.org/resources/grids

 

C. Mugnier

LSU

---

From: [hidden email] on behalf of Fernando Javier Luyo Zegarra
Sent: Wed 01-Apr-09 14:32
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Proj] Error during the coordinate transformation?

Hi

The code corresponds to Perú
Fernando

---

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:17:29 -0500
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Proj] Error during the coordinate transformation?

Dear Fernando:

 

What country is this, and what parameters did you use.  I suspect you're in Venezuela ... please confirm.

 

Estan usted en la Republica de Venezuela?  Esta verdad?

 

C. Mugnier

Louisiana State University

---

From: [hidden email] on behalf of Fernando Javier Luyo Zegarra
Sent: Tue 31-Mar-09 16:11
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Proj] Error during the coordinate transformation‏

Hello,

I'm developed a routine for transforming coordinates of points which are in PSAD56 Zone 18S (srid = 24878) to Wgs84 Zone 18s (srid = 32718)

The items are stored in the fields "geom" the table "MyTable" (srid = 24878).

To perform the operation using the following syntax:


       select Transform (geom, 32718) from MyTable


Reviewing the results found that there is an error:


Example:

Point in Psad56 Zn 18s

        X = 264365.2955 Y = 8665287.3660 Z = 0.0000

The result of the transformation is:

        X = 264366.1196 Y = 8665292.17 Z = 0.0000

However, the same point in cartografia WGS84 Zone 18S has the following coordinates:

        X = 264143.0640 Y = 8664919.0231 Z = 0.0000

Apparently the SRID of the parameters are not properly used or applied incorrectly the function Transform ()

While waiting for your help


Fernando Luyo
pd: Sorry for my bad English
**************************************************

Hola

Estoy elaborando una rutina para transformar coordenadas de puntos que estan en PSAD56 Zona 18S (srid=24878) a Wgs84 Zona 18s (srid=32718)

Los puntos estan almacenados en el campo "geom" de la tabla "MyTable" (srid=24878).


Para realizar la operacion estoy usando la siguiente sintaxis:


select Transform(geom,32718) from MyTable

Al revisar los resultados encontre que hay un error :

Ejemplo :

Punto en Psad56 Zn 18s

X = 264365.2955     Y = 8665287.3660     Z = 0.0000

El resultado de la transformacion es:

X = 264366.1196     Y = 8665292.17       Z = 0.0000

Sin embargo, el mismo punto en cartografia en WGS84 Zona 18S tiene las siguientes coordenadas:

X = 264143.0640     Y = 8664919.0231     Z = 0.0000

Al parecer los parametros de los SRID usado no estan correctos o estoy aplicando mal la funcion Transform()

A la espera de su ayuda< br>
saludos

Fernando Luyo

**************************************************

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[Mikael Rittri]

Frank Warmerdam wrote (31 March 2009):

> OvV_HN wrote:
> > I don't get it. I always thought the existing PROJ (and libproj)
> > function sterea was a full implementation of the double
stereographic
> > projection, suited for Dutch RD, New Brunswick / Prince Edward
Island
> > stereo and Romanian Stereo 70.
>
> Oscar,
>
> Well, that is possible.  Is someone willing to do some leg work
> confirming if that is the case, and documenting the correct
formulation
> of the coordinate systems described in
http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/2487
> for PROJ.4?  Some sample test points would also be helpful.  Given
that I
> would be happy to update GDAL to support double stereographic and
update
> some other resources.

I think Oscar is right (at least for the Netherlands,
very likely for the Canadian projections, and I don't
know anything about Romania.)

I found some older posts in the Proj Archives, which
I try to summarize here. (Apologies if there are
errors in my summary.)

Gerald Evenden wrote a post, mainly about the
terminology, but also citing Rueben Schulz, who
wrote that
> The EPSG does not have any plans to include
> the USGS form in their database since they
> do not know of any coordinate reference systems
> that use it.
http://lists.maptools.org/pipermail/proj/2004-May/001216.html

Jan Hartmann agreed that the Dutch Stereographic
should be implemented by proj=sterea, not proj=stere,
and attached two images showing
(a) that the United States variant, proj=stere, would
give errors up to 8 meters in the Netherlands, and
(b) that the correct proj=sterea gives errors up
to 0.2 meters, anyway. (?!)
http://lists.maptools.org/pipermail/proj/2006-January/002021.html

Oscar van Vlijmen replied that proj=sterea should
give errors at most 0.2 millimeters in the Netherlands
(and that's because the Dutch authorities use an
approximative algorithm claimed to have that accuracy,
while proj=sterea is exact (or more exact)).
The up to 0.2 meter error, found by Jan Hartmann,
can be attributed to a grid correction used by
the official transformation tool RDNAPTRANS, writes Oscar.
If I understand him correctly, the official tool conflates
the map projection with a datum shift via grid file.
There are some test points in Oscar's post, but he wrote    

> I got with my version of sterea:

so I guess that's his own implementation of sterea,
rather than the implementation in Proj.4.
http://lists.maptools.org/pipermail/proj/2006-January/002022.html

Best regards,

--
Mikael Rittri
Carmenta AB
SWEDEN
www.carmenta.com
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[OvV_HN]

I can look up some official test points in my files, including references to
more or less authoritative sources. Will take a few days, around Sunday
perhaps.
The latest versions of the RDNAP software (Netherlands) indeed do grid
interpolation.
The Dutch Kadaster has/had an on-line transformation tool without grid
interpolation, but with Schreiber polynomials, including a small error
however.
Prince Edward test points are described in a Technical Report (no. 48 I
believe).
Romanian test points can be obtained from a Hungarian Excel application by
Gábor Timár.


Oscar van Vlijmen


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Warmerdam" <[hidden email]>
To: "PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Proj] ERROR 6: No translation for Double_Stereographic to
PROJ.4 format is known.

> OvV_HN wrote:
>> I don't get it. I always thought the existing PROJ (and libproj) function
>> sterea was a full implementation of the double stereographic projection,
>> suited for Dutch RD, New Brunswick / Prince Edward Island stereo and
>> Romanian Stereo 70.
>
> Oscar,
>
> Well, that is possible.  Is someone willing to do some leg work confirming
> if that is the case, and documenting the correct formulation of the
> coordinate systems described in http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/2487
> for PROJ.4?  Some sample test points would also be helpful.  Given that
> I would be happy to update GDAL to support double stereographic and
> update some other resources.

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[Hermann Peifer]

As far as I  remember: Oscar provided the requested test points, so I would guess that the double stereographic projection is now supported

?

Hermann

-------- Original Message  --------
Subject: Re:ERROR 6: No translation for Double_Stereographic to   PROJ.4 format is known.
From: OvV_HN <[hidden email]>
To:
Date: 02/04/2009 17:43

> I can look up some official test points in my files, including references to
> more or less authoritative sources. Will take a few days, around Sunday
> perhaps.
> The latest versions of the RDNAP software (Netherlands) indeed do grid
> interpolation.
> The Dutch Kadaster has/had an on-line transformation tool without grid
> interpolation, but with Schreiber polynomials, including a small error
> however.
> Prince Edward test points are described in a Technical Report (no. 48 I
> believe).
> Romanian test points can be obtained from a Hungarian Excel application by
> Gábor Timár.
>
>
> Oscar van Vlijmen
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Warmerdam" <[hidden email]>
> To: "PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Proj] ERROR 6: No translation for Double_Stereographic to
> PROJ.4 format is known.
>
>
>> OvV_HN wrote:
>>> I don't get it. I always thought the existing PROJ (and libproj) function
>>> sterea was a full implementation of the double stereographic projection,
>>> suited for Dutch RD, New Brunswick / Prince Edward Island stereo and
>>> Romanian Stereo 70.
>> Oscar,
>>
>> Well, that is possible.  Is someone willing to do some leg work confirming
>> if that is the case, and documenting the correct formulation of the
>> coordinate systems described in http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/ticket/2487
>> for PROJ.4?  Some sample test points would also be helpful.  Given that
>> I would be happy to update GDAL to support double stereographic and
>> update some other resources.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Proj mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj
>

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