Change in casing mail

[sinister minister]

My office does not get DPS.  We used to case flats first, taco style, then letters.  Everything was fine.  Now we case letters, then flats, then letters, then flats, etc.  Flats MUST be cased standing and taco is prohibited.  My question, can management force a change in casing method?  It's FUBAR.

[west of nowhere]

We have always cased newspapers,flats ,then letters. But I have the PO-603 right by me and 223.23 states .Generally flats are cased after letter size mail. IF MANAGEMENT APPROVES flats may be cased before letter sized mail. It would sure increase my sorting time to switch to flats first.

[sinister minister]

But what about, for example:
1 tray of letters, then
1 1/2 tubs flats, then
3 trays letters, then
3 tubs flats, then
1/2 tray letters?

[west of nowhere]

I agree that is a screwed up mess. I am surprised you are not on DPS. You could lose a lot of time if they decided to put you on DPS.Some offices in our District are on DPS/sector segment with less than a tray of letters each day.

[SirBru]

"It would sure increase my sorting time to switch to flats first. "    ...? Did you state that backwards? Surely you did, because to me ,letters already in the case are nothing more than obnoxius OBSTRUCTIONS that radically slow down the casing of flats. I've been at this well over two decades. I've tried every system coming and going...sometimes for many years at a time, and flats-FIRST is far more efficient...not only in terms of time,but also in terms of motion or caloric expenditure.

[Wave]

When anyone rolls (tacos, folds, etc.) flats for me and I have to come in and work that route the first thing I do is stand every rolled flat up.  Rolling them is the biggest waste of time when you are tying out, and it has been my experience that carriers who roll their flats DO NOT check that every piece of mail is being correctly put in its designated box.  

[SirBru]

 I stood them up for many years. That was fine  on some of the milage routes I've run but the route I'm on now is pure volume and incredibly DANGEROUS. My mail has to be  street ready in every way.... the dominoes have to be ready to fall perfectly because very small fractions of a second are the difference between life and death. Years ago , when I tacoed  the flats ,I learned to put the address on the outside but in more recent years I've learned that putting the address ON THE INSIDE allows for a very rapid confirmation of both letters and flats( a little fanning sometimes required).And I've seen very few boxes that will take  standing flats.

[SirBru]

Also Wave, funny you should say:...."the first thing I do is stand every rolled flat up." I've been known  many times  to REMOVE EVERY LETTER from the case so that the flats could be  efficiently laid  in first as the foundation. There is no doubt in my mind that even having to double handle the letters that way is STILL faster than having them there as obstructions.

[postie1010]

Now that I have to go to a one inch cell size there is no choice but to stand up flats. Otherwise- not much would fit!

[Wave]

Regardless of how you case the mail, you should still be given the option that works best for your route since you are the one who has to do it every day.  Like Bob said though, not checking the mail before it goes in the box is what leads to so many mistakes and part of your letter and flat standard time is for checking each individual address before it goes in the box.  Not doing that is part of how carriers get under time.

[SirBru]

 I agree...re:"Regardless of how you case the mail, you should still be given the option that works best for your route ..." The "character'' of routes can vary widely. But I have to say, that this issue  is merely spit in the ocean to the greater issue of "undertime". It's probably more of an INDICATOR than a majorly significant problem in itself.( significant, nontheless)
We recently changed managers and ,of course , the first TEST the runners give is the ol' coming-in-early test . They were quickly told "not a problem". So ,for the last two months, I've been watching  carrier's cases:  EMPTY when they leave in the  afternoon. Same cases: FULL OF FLATS at 8 AM when I walk in the door. "Reporting time" on the time sheets: "8 AM". It doesn't take a genius to do the math! This is the SAME GAME I've watched throughout the rural craft my entire career!!

[middle of nowhere]

     all the rural carriers in our office taco or roll their flats.  i turn them also so that the address label is on the left when they are rolled, ( at least the first one for each customer),saves time in delivery for me not to have to search for the address. i never look at each piece before delivery, i just check the outside flat, and the first and last letter inside.   rarely have a misthrow, and have noticed that the plastic wrapped flats are easier to separate from each other when they are rolled.  if you are careful in casing, checking mail at the box isn't necessary.  i hate it when someone thinks they are doing you a favor by casing a few letters when you are gone.

[j carrier]

I am fascinated with the thought of standing flats up! Wish there was a way to see a picture of that case prior to strap out. Do you have 5 or 6 shelves? Are the dividers tall? I cannot figure out how the flats don't curl over into the next cell getting in the way. I can see how pulling down could go faster, but it seems like casing would be a nightmare.

I wish this subject had come up when the mail volume was lighter and I had more courage to try it. I'm always open to trying a new method. Maybe if I can get a correct picture in my head of how you do this I could try it with 1/4 of the route or so.

I'm sure you are not- but you aren't booking the flats are you? I can't figure out the casing or the strapping out method! I've "tacoed" since day one and never saw it strapped out flat.

[bob1]

middle of nowhere wrote:

     all the rural carriers in our office taco or roll their flats.  i turn them also so that the address label is on the left when they are rolled, ( at least the first one for each customer),saves time in delivery for me not to have to search for the address. i never look at each piece before delivery, i just check the outside flat, and the first and last letter inside.   rarely have a misthrow, and have noticed that the plastic wrapped flats are easier to separate from each other when they are rolled.  if you are careful in casing, checking mail at the box isn't necessary.  i hate it when someone thinks they are doing you a favor by casing a few letters when you are gone.

Ever read what the PO-603 says about this?  You are adding to the undertime problem by NOT doing the job properly.

[SirBru]

j carrier, you may not have the right type of case for this.I know I spent about a year and a half in an office that   had the old wooden fixed grid cases . In those cases there IS NO WAY to "stand up" flats. In fact, the best way we could work mail  in those cases was the "two bundle system". Labels were over-under( left top and right bottom). Flats were tacoed top and bottom and then letters were placed in the taco left-right. Then the letters were TRAYED and the flats were STRAPPED (pulled seperately) and then  the two were collated in the road. Something similar to taking DPS to the street.( as far as the road portion goes) Amazingly, EVERY ONE of these carriers that experienced case upgrades couldn't believe how incredibly faster, easier and SAFER their road time became once they went to the one bundle system.

[middle of nowhere]

     bob1- the 603 says before placing mail in receptacle, verify address accuracy.  it doesn't say look at each individual piece before placing mail in box.  i did that when i cased it.  i do look at the outside flat, and the 1st and last letter inside.  instead of saying that i'm not doing the job correctly, maybe you can realize not everyone does the job the same way that you do.

[Wave]

You haven't verified address accuracy if you haven't looked at each piece before it goes in the box.
Why do you think raw flat and letter mail gets street time and office time in the time standard?

[west of nowhere]

A newspaper is the taco shell. Everything is placed in the creased newspaper. We are the high mileage low volume routes. We use five shelves and many of our slots are wide enough for a small bus. I am afraid some day they will come and take a wing away. Everything is sorted before we leave on the route. We never have anything left to case or in the case when we leave.

[bob1]

middle of nowhere wrote:

     bob1- the 603 says before placing mail in receptacle, verify address accuracy.  it doesn't say look at each individual piece before placing mail in box.  i did that when i cased it.  i do look at the outside flat, and the 1st and last letter inside.  instead of saying that i'm not doing the job correctly, maybe you can realize not everyone does the job the same way that you do.

And that is spelled out under your duties of "CARRIER PERFORMANCE ON THE ROUTE".

321.2 Verify Address
Before placing mail in the receptacle, verify address accuracy. Exception: It
is not necessary to verify mail distributed in accordance with 225.4
(Segmentation Prepared by Mail Processing).

Argue it anyway you want but your excuse is the same classic and lame excuse many who case DPS use.  It is only faster casing it and doing as you do because you are cutting corners.

By taking DPS to the street, one has no choice to verify the addresses on that mail before placing it in the box.

This has nothing to do with doing the job the way I have done, it has to do with doing the job right as and the manuals require and NOT adding to undertime by cutting corners.  Your excuse is just like most other carriers I have heard, you (and they) are confident enough in your casing abilities that you do NOT have to look at the mail again.  

Wave seems to understand this, not sure why it is so hard for others.

[joe]

I use a hybrid taco/stand up flat system.  I like to find the thinnest, flimsiest flats and roll them into the case, then stand up the rest. Preferably One taco shell per cell ONLY.  Everything else in that shell stands up (unless the next piece is also VERY thin and flimsy)   Anything thick or more rigid stands up in a cell that does not have a taco shell.  No need to try and roll up something thick or rigid; it is its own divider, the next cell might have a taco.  The idea is to be able to get more mail in a hand bundle.  Rolling taco shell after taco shell into a cell makes less room for letter mail and creates huge heavy bundles with say 4 stops, while standing up 80% of flats gets you say 12 stops in a hand bundle and LESS trays.
It is also much faster to case flats that stand up, and faster to pull them down because you can pull out thinner cells, and keep pulling, rather than stopping frequently to strap 4 huge rolled up cells that want to unroll.

The dividers on my case are small, flats can roll over on top of the next cell (to the right)  but there are casing techniques to eliminate problems.  (a quick flip from underneath, or a downward slashing to the left motion..easy to figure out)