Can my FreeRunner remind me to shut it down if it is still running at 22:00?

[Brolin Empey]

Hello list,

I still have not received my FreeRunner, but UPS says the package is scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday.  Anyway, I have found Yet Another limitation of my Nokia 6103b.  I am almost certain the FreeRunner will be able to do what I need, but I wanted to ask how.

I prefer to shut down my cell phone before going to bed, but I frequently forget to do so.  I used to have an alarm in my Palm Z22 (which is a PDA only, not a phone) that sounded every day at 22:00 to remind me to shut down my cell phone.  I no longer have that alarm because I had to stop using my Palm Z22 because its touch screen no longer works except when it is cold (see my previous message to this list about the reliability of resistive touch screens).  I thought it would make more sense to have my cell phone remind me to shut it down instead of having another device remind me to shut down my cell phone, but the best I can do with my Nokia 6103b is have an alarm that sounds every day at 22:00 even if I have already shut down the Nokia 6103b by then.  It is obviously pointless to have the Nokia 6103b remind me to shut it down when it has already been shut down, but I asked Nokia if the Nokia 6103b could do what I wanted and they answered no.

So, how can I do this with my FreeRunner? :)

Thanks,
Brolin

--
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“What if there were no hypothetical questions?” — George Carlin

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[Sebastian Krzyszkowiak]

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 00:44, Brolin Empey<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> I still have not received my FreeRunner, but UPS says the package is
> scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday.  Anyway, I have found Yet Another
> limitation of my Nokia 6103b.  I am almost certain the FreeRunner will be
> able to do what I need, but I wanted to ask how.
>
> I prefer to shut down my cell phone before going to bed, but I frequently
> forget to do so.  I used to have an alarm in my Palm Z22 (which is a PDA
> only, not a phone) that sounded every day at 22:00 to remind me to shut down
> my cell phone.  I no longer have that alarm because I had to stop using my
> Palm Z22 because its touch screen no longer works except when it is cold
> (see my previous message to this list about the reliability of resistive
> touch screens).  I thought it would make more sense to have my cell phone
> remind me to shut it down instead of having another device remind me to shut
> down my cell phone, but the best I can do with my Nokia 6103b is have an
> alarm that sounds every day at 22:00 even if I have already shut down the
> Nokia 6103b by then.  It is obviously pointless to have the Nokia 6103b
> remind me to shut it down when it has already been shut down, but I asked
> Nokia if the Nokia 6103b could do what I wanted and they answered no.
>
> So, how can I do this with my FreeRunner? :)
>
> Thanks,
> Brolin

Simply. Use at, or cron... Or write python or even bash script... You
can also do automatic change profile to silend instead of shutting
down... That's Linux box which fits in your pocket. You can do
everything.

--
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
dos

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[vendion]

On Friday 24 July 2009 06:56:22 pm Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote:
>That's Linux box which fits in your pocket. You can do
> everything.

Except for charging while it is off, but that is a different story XP
--
"We must plan for freedom, and not only for security, if for no other reason
than only freedom can make security more secure."  Karl Popper


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[Brolin Empey]

2009/7/24 Sebastian Krzyszkowiak <[hidden email]>

Simply. Use at, or cron... Or write python or even bash script... You
can also do automatic change profile to silend instead of shutting
down... That's Linux box which fits in your pocket. You can do
everything.

If I create a cron job that runs every day at 22:00, will the cron job run even if I have already shut down my FreeRunner by 22:00?  I guess not, but I wanted to ask to be certain.

Also, what is the best program to use for this reminder as the command in the crontab entry?

Does the FreeRunner even have an “off” state like a desktop computer, or does the power button (I assume it has a power button, or a button that functions as a power button, like the End Call button on my Nokia 6103b and I think on most other Nokia cell phones?) put it in a sleep state like my Palm Z22, where all alarms still work?  I quoted “off” because I know a modern IBM PC-compatible computer, for example, is never truly/completely off because the real-time clock, for example, is always running.  On an ATX motherboard, the +5V standby is still on even when the soft power switch on the front of the case says the PC is off.  AFAIK, when a user says their modern PC is “off”, they really mean it is in ACPI state 5.  Is that right?  I do not remember the details about the ACPI states.

Would it be better to use a task/todo list application or some type of scheduling application that is always running (as a daemon, for example) to remind me to shut down my FreeRunner?

I know there are many ways of using Linux to accomplish my goal, but I do not know what the best way is because I have not needed to do this with a Linux computer before.

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[Sebastian Krzyszkowiak]

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 01:24, Brolin Empey<[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2009/7/24 Sebastian Krzyszkowiak <[hidden email]>
>>
>> Simply. Use at, or cron... Or write python or even bash script... You
>> can also do automatic change profile to silend instead of shutting
>> down... That's Linux box which fits in your pocket. You can do
>> everything.
>
> If I create a cron job that runs every day at 22:00, will the cron job run
> even if I have already shut down my FreeRunner by 22:00?  I guess not, but I
> wanted to ask to be certain.

If you'll use RTC clock, then it will turn on or resume from suspend.
If you won't, then it'll stay off.

> Also, what is the best program to use for this reminder as the command in
> the crontab entry?

Well, you can just write python script in few lines.

> Does the FreeRunner even have an “off” state like a desktop computer, or
> does the power button (I assume it has a power button, or a button that
> functions as a power button, like the End Call button on my Nokia 6103b and
> I think on most other Nokia cell phones?) put it in a sleep state like my
> Palm Z22, where all alarms still work?  I quoted “off” because I know a
> modern IBM PC-compatible computer, for example, is never truly/completely
> off because the real-time clock, for example, is always running.  On an ATX
> motherboard, the +5V standby is still on even when the soft power switch on
> the front of the case says the PC is off.  AFAIK, when a user says their
> modern PC is “off”, they really mean it is in ACPI state 5.  Is that right?
> I do not remember the details about the ACPI states.

Dunno much about hardware, but "poweroff" or "halt" commands are
working on FR, and they are turning it off. There is RTC clock
running, but I think it comes from internal battery (which is used to
keep you date/time setting)

> Would it be better to use a task/todo list application or some type of
> scheduling application that is always running (as a daemon, for example) to
> remind me to shut down my FreeRunner?

It depends. If you already want to use such application, then probably
better choise is using it.

> I know there are many ways of using Linux to accomplish my goal, but I do
> not know what the best way is because I have not needed to do this with a
> Linux computer before.

Just be creative :)

--
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
dos

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[Robin Paulson]

2009/7/25 Brolin Empey <[hidden email]>:
> I prefer to shut down my cell phone before going to bed, but I frequently

it may be easier to schedule a cron job which shuts the phone down for
you. sounding an alarm to remind you to do something the phone can do,
sounds like it's missing the point

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[Brolin Empey]

2009/7/24 Robin Paulson <[hidden email]>

2009/7/25 Brolin Empey <[hidden email]>:

> I prefer to shut down my cell phone before going to bed, but I frequently

it may be easier to schedule a cron job which shuts the phone down for
you. sounding an alarm to remind you to do something the phone can do,
sounds like it's missing the point

I may be using the phone at 22:00, though, in which case I do not want it to automatically shut down. :)

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[EdorFaus]

Brolin Empey wrote:
> 2009/7/24 Robin Paulson <[hidden email]>
>> 2009/7/25 Brolin Empey <[hidden email]>:
>>> I prefer to shut down my cell phone before going to bed, but I frequently
>> it may be easier to schedule a cron job which shuts the phone down for
>> you. sounding an alarm to remind you to do something the phone can do,
>> sounds like it's missing the point
>
> I may be using the phone at 22:00, though, in which case I do not want it to
> automatically shut down. :)

Well, there are ways around that, too.

As an example, your script could start by popping up an xmessage on the
screen asking the user if he wants to shut down now, with a No button
that stops the process, and a timeout in case the user isn't there.
Then, it could call shutdown with a delay (e.g. shutting down in 5
minutes instead of now), this will send a message to users logged in via
other ways than X (e.g. via ssh), and can also be cancelled. The user
would then have 5 minutes to cancel the shutdown (using shutdown -c),
after that it would shut down on its own.


Of course, similar methods could be used to just give a reminder as
well. E.g., use an audio player (aplay, ogg123, ...) to make a sound,
and pop up a message similar to the one above (though perhaps without
timeout, just the Yes/No buttons, or just OK if you want it manual).


I'll admit to not being very up on current events though, so there might
be better ways of doing those things (playing sound, showing
message/question, shutting down) in the framework, instead of the common
*nix utilities I'm considering.

-EdorFaus

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[arne anka]

iirc there's a tool called ffalarm to handle exact that case.

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[vendion]

On Saturday 25 July 2009 08:06:48 am arne anka wrote:
> iirc there's a tool called ffalarm to handle exact that case.
>

Only downsides to using ffalram for this first no reoccurring alarm support
yet and second there is no way to add a note or any kind of message reminding
you why the alarm is going off leaving the user having to remember why they
set the alarm, don't know if this is by design or not implemented yet or what.
--
"We must plan for freedom, and not only for security, if for no other reason
than only freedom can make security more secure."  Karl Popper


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[Rask Ingemann Lambertsen-2]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 07:02:32PM -0400, Adam Jimerson wrote:
> On Friday 24 July 2009 06:56:22 pm Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote:
> >That's Linux box which fits in your pocket. You can do
> > everything.
>
> Except for charging while it is off, but that is a different story XP

   It charges fine while it is off, just not faster than 500 mA.

--
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year

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[Robin Paulson]

2009/7/26 Adam Jimerson <[hidden email]>:
> Only downsides to using ffalram for this first no reoccurring alarm support
> yet and second there is no way to add a note or any kind of message reminding
> you why the alarm is going off leaving the user having to remember why they
> set the alarm, don't know if this is by design or not implemented yet or what.

i think dates will do this

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[vendion]

On Saturday 25 July 2009 08:41:52 pm Robin Paulson wrote:
> 2009/7/26 Adam Jimerson <[hidden email]>:
> > Only downsides to using ffalram for this first no reoccurring alarm
> > support yet and second there is no way to add a note or any kind of
> > message reminding you why the alarm is going off leaving the user having
> > to remember why they set the alarm, don't know if this is by design or
> > not implemented yet or what.
>
> i think dates will do this
>
Dates doesn't support an alarm, or I never had one go off on me anyways, but I
know gpe-calendar does through the at deamon so that may work.
--
"We must plan for freedom, and not only for security, if for no other reason
than only freedom can make security more secure."  Karl Popper


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[vendion]

On Saturday 25 July 2009 04:36:26 pm Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 07:02:32PM -0400, Adam Jimerson wrote:
> > On Friday 24 July 2009 06:56:22 pm Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote:
> > >That's Linux box which fits in your pocket. You can do
> > > everything.
> >
> > Except for charging while it is off, but that is a different story XP
>
>    It charges fine while it is off, just not faster than 500 mA.

When did this change, the last I knew, other wise when I bought it, the wiki
said that it doesn't charge while it is off.
--
"We must plan for freedom, and not only for security, if for no other reason
than only freedom can make security more secure."  Karl Popper


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[Ben Wong-3]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Brolin Empey<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I prefer to shut down my cell phone before going to bed, but I frequently
> forget to do so.

Hmmm... I think the solution depends on why you're shutting down your
cell phone at night.

To prevent calls from waking you?  Try a cron job that changes your
default ring style to silent (and resets it in the morning).

To save electricity, and thus the earth from global climate change?
I'd use a cron job that calls shutdown, but that first checks if your
phone is off the hook (well, I guess we already know the Freerunner is
"off the hook").  I'd probably also check if there had been any recent
screen input.

To save the battery in case you forgot to plug it in?  A cron job
would work to shut it down, but you could add a couple lines in the
script to skip it if the battery is already charging.

--Ben

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[Alishams Hassam-2]

....
> When did this change, the last I knew, other wise when I bought it, the wiki
> said that it doesn't charge while it is off.
It always charged while off-just at 100MA, which takes fucking forever.
So charging, but barely. I can confirm this from having a flat battery
within the first day of using my freerunner (first shipment), and
plugging it in to the charger to charge enough capacity to boot. Care to
direct me to the wiki page that stated the incorrect info? (we can also
check the hist on the page to see when/if it was changed).


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[Brolin Empey]

2009/7/27 Ben Wong <[e-mail]>

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Brolin Empey<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I prefer to shut down my cell phone before going to bed, but I frequently
> forget to do so.

That could be interpreted as meaning I frequently forget to go to bed too. ;)

Hmmm... I think the solution depends on why you're shutting down your
cell phone at night.

To prevent calls from waking you?

No, the phones I have do not wake me.
 

 Try a cron job that changes your
default ring style to silent (and resets it in the morning).

A phone that literally rings (i.e., has a real bell instead of an electronic tone) may wake me, though. :)

To save electricity, and thus the earth from global climate change?

I was thinking more of “to save the battery runtime for when I am awake and can actually use the phone”, but I guess it could be considered to be preventing (or at least reducing) climate change too.  I already have 2 tower PCs running almost all the time at home, but at least they both have 80plus PSUs.  My tower PC at work is running almost all the time too, but it needs to be running at night for the backup system.  It has an 80plus PSU too.
 

I'd use a cron job that calls shutdown, but that first checks if your
phone is off the hook (well, I guess we already know the Freerunner is
"off the hook").  I'd probably also check if there had been any recent
screen input.

In this case you literally meant off the hook, but at first I thought you meant “no longer responsible for”. :)

To save the battery in case you forgot to plug it in?

Yes, this is what I was thinking of.  I am afraid to leave battery-powered devices plugged in (line-powered) all the time, though, because doing so seems to kill laptop batteries.
 

 A cron job
would work to shut it down, but you could add a couple lines in the
script to skip it if the battery is already charging.

 Or if I am using the phone. ;)

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[Marcel-2]

Am Dienstag, 28. Juli 2009 12:47:25 schrieb Brolin Empey:
> 2009/7/27 Ben Wong <[hidden email]>
>
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Brolin Empey<[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I prefer to shut down my cell phone before going to bed, but I
> > > frequently forget to do so.
>
> That could be interpreted as meaning I frequently forget to go to bed
> too. ;)

LOL.

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[Ben Wong-3]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Brolin Empey<[hidden email]> wrote:
> 2009/7/27 Ben Wong <[hidden email]>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Brolin Empey<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > I prefer to shut down my cell phone before going to bed, but I
>> > frequently
>> > forget to do so.
>
> That could be interpreted as meaning I frequently forget to go to bed too.

Heh.  I actually *do* have an alarm that goes off every night to
remind me to go to bed.  I got the idea from an old Superman "Bizarro
World" comic.


> No, the phones I have do not wake me.
>
> A phone that literally rings (i.e., has a real bell instead of an electronic
> tone) may wake me, though. :)

I suggest this rotary ring, which I use as my default ring "tone":

  http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=15826


>>
>> I'd use a cron job that calls shutdown, but that first checks if your
>> phone is off the hook (well, I guess we already know the Freerunner is
>> "off the hook").  I'd probably also check if there had been any recent
>> screen input.
>
> In this case you literally meant off the hook, but at first I thought you
> meant “no longer responsible for”. :)

Yeah, language is funny.  For some reason the slang in my part of the
US (I don't know about elsewhere) has evolved so that "off the hook"
now means "fantastic!"  Perhaps a confusion with "off the charts"?


>> To save the battery in case you forgot to plug it in?
>
> Yes, this is what I was thinking of.  I am afraid to leave battery-powered
> devices plugged in (line-powered) all the time, though, because doing so
> seems to kill laptop batteries.

That's a good question, whether constant charging shortens the
lifespan of a Li battery, which I'm sure someone more knowledgeable on
this list will answer.  From personal experience, I believe that to be
true, but my feeling is that I'll just keep it charging and replace
the batteries once in a while.  They're not as expensive as laptop
batteries.  Also, I've heard that lithium batteries have a limited
lifespan even when they're not being used.


>>  A cron job
>> would work to shut it down, but you could add a couple lines in the
>> script to skip it if the battery is already charging.
>
>  Or if I am using the phone. ;)

It should inject audio into the conversation.  "Pardon me for
interrupting, this is your Freerunner talking. I just wanted to let
you know that it is now past your bedtime."  ;-)

--Ben

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[Paul Fertser]

Ben Wong <[hidden email]> writes:
>> Yes, this is what I was thinking of. I am afraid to leave battery-powered
>> devices plugged in (line-powered) all the time, though, because doing so
>> seems to kill laptop batteries.
>
> That's a good question, whether constant charging shortens the
> lifespan of a Li battery, which I'm sure someone more knowledgeable on
> this list will answer.  From personal experience, I believe that to be
> true.

Same for me, i believe my laptop battery was killed by constant
charging. Other reports and advices found on the internet suggest that
to be the likely case.

For FR, however, there shouldn't be much concern as it cuts off
charging the battery as soon as it's full and then reenables the
charging at approx 75-80%. Ensure you use a recent Qi (at least 2 Jun
2009) because if you don't the PMU might not detect battery full
condition properly due to GSM modem drawing power directly from the
battery terminals.

I'm currently working on patches to finally bring sanity to the
charging/discharging batteries on FR, including dumb batteries (yes,
you can use your favourite dirt-cheap BL-5C now and you'll even see
how much charge is left there), so stay tuned.

--
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
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