Avatar Anonymity

[Martin Keltz]

Avatar anonymity has often been debated on the SLED List. Does the professional educator use his/her real name, especially since that option is now coming from LL? I think the real question is...who is the person behind the avatar? As Peter Ludlow asks in "The Second Life Herald The Virtual World that Witnessed The Dawn of the Metaverse," who is the typist?

 

This question is particularly relevant to me now as I embody and give voice to the persona of the Reluctant Quester in TVWSP's ongoing blog about stories, Story Quests, and education.

 

To read my latest musings on this subject, visit: http://tinyurl.com/yjxwpnk

Would love to hear your reactions both on the list here and as comments on the blog.

 

Marty Keltz

(aka Marty Snowpaw, aka The Reluctant Quester)

Co-founder, The Virtual Worlds Story Project
Web: www.TVWSP.com
Blog: www.TVWSP.typepad.com/tvwsp

Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/m2hnwf
Twitter: www.twitter.com/tvwsp
Ning: http://storieswithoutborders.ning.com/
Delicious: http://delicious.com/tvwsp

 

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[Anne Ogborn]

Pathways Learning Management System--Grand Opening

Pathways LMS is a major new tool for creating lessons in Second Life.  
You can use the Pathways components to set up a walking path for your students to follow.  

Along the way, Pathways will dispense instructions, provide resources and activities, and record students’ responses.  When they’ve completed the
path, you will get an evaluation email.

Pathways lets you flexibly link your resources into a coherent lesson.
The eight Pathways components make it easy to provide resources and instructions to your students.

Come try out some demonstration paths at our new store in Belphegor,
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Belphegor/105/42/70
The Pathways Co-op crew will be serving burgers off the grill and answering questions to celebrate our Grand Opening until 23:00 SLT!

Annie Obscure (SL)
Anne Ogborn (RL)



     
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[Pavig Lok]

Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)

An interesting question.

After many years of working professionally online I believe that avatar names are quite sufficient as a public outfacing identity. "Who is the typist" is only a problem when there is no reputation behind the nom de plume - of course one can bring first life reputation if one makes their identity known to those who have a legitimate interest, or build that reputation via association with real world value. Heaven forbid we should be called on to associate our facebook profiles instead with our professional work, then need to actively manage who get's our personal cell phone number pre-emptively. 

Your students will know who your avatar is, your associates, and those who attend a symposium in which you reveal it, etc... really it's nobody else's business.  There's too much creepy googling going on these days anyway.

Just my two cents.

On 22/10/2009, at 10:47 AM, Martin Keltz wrote:

Avatar anonymity has often been debated on the SLED List. Does the professional educator use his/her real name, especially since that option is now coming from LL? I think the real question is...who is the person behind the avatar? As Peter Ludlow asks in "The Second Life Herald The Virtual World that Witnessed The Dawn of the Metaverse," who is the typist?

 

This question is particularly relevant to me now as I embody and give voice to the persona of the Reluctant Quester in TVWSP's ongoing blog about stories, Story Quests, and education.

 

To read my latest musings on this subject, visit: http://tinyurl.com/yjxwpnk

Would love to hear your reactions both on the list here and as comments on the blog.

 

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[Sheila Webber]

My Second Life is part of my life, and I have been thinking about the name
issue. I choose to use my RL first name (and didn't realise at the time how
lucky I was to get my first choice name!) - so it's Sheila Webber/Yoshikawa.

I have already changed my RL family name, as I changed it when I got married: I
didn't actually think seriously of not doing this at the time, partly because I
was young, with no "reputation" under my existing name, and it was longer ago,
so women weren't questioning the name change so much.

Also I was fairly happy to goodbye to my old name, as it wasn't (in my view) a
particularly lovely or interesting name, but almost no-one could spell it
properly (it was "Starns") and I found tedious to always have to spell it out.
I didn't fall in love with the name "Webber" but I felt it was an improvement
on "Starns" and actually it became approppriate as web things ended up being
important in my career.

However, I didn't really choose that name whereas I DID choose "Yoshikawa" and I
have been thinking that I am happy having an alternative name, that is my
chosen name, and very much part of me. One problem now is that sometimes I'm
not sure which to use! (for example, I created a ning for Information Literacy
Week in SL - and decided to use Sheila Yoshikawa, as the main activity was a SL
one). I don't feel anonymous as Sheila Yoshikawa: you can find lots if you
google "Sheila Webber", and now increasing amounts under "Sheila Yoshikawa" and
if anything I might do more to make it easy to link the two.

***One thing I have wondered if whether this "choosing my own name at last!"
thing is felt more by women (who are more likely to have had a semi-arbitrary
name change) than men? *** Quite probably there has been research on this ;-)

Sheila

 Quoting Pavig Lok <[hidden email]>:

> An interesting question.
>
> After many years of working professionally online I believe that  
> avatar names are quite sufficient as a public outfacing identity. "Who  
> is the typist" is only a problem when there is no reputation behind  
> the nom de plume - of course one can bring first life reputation if  
> one makes their identity known to those who have a legitimate  
> interest, or build that reputation via association with real world  
> value. Heaven forbid we should be called on to associate our facebook  
> profiles instead with our professional work, then need to actively  
> manage who get's our personal cell phone number pre-emptively.
>
> Your students will know who your avatar is, your associates, and those  
> who attend a symposium in which you reveal it, etc... really it's  
> nobody else's business.  There's too much creepy googling going on  
> these days anyway.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
> On 22/10/2009, at 10:47 AM, Martin Keltz wrote:
>
> > Avatar anonymity has often been debated on the SLED List. Does the  
> > professional educator use his/her real name, especially since that  
> > option is now coming from LL? I think the real question is...who is  
> > the person behind the avatar? As Peter Ludlow asks in "The Second  
> > Life Herald The Virtual World that Witnessed The Dawn of the  
> > Metaverse," who is the typist?
> >
> > This question is particularly relevant to me now as I embody and  
> > give voice to the persona of the Reluctant Quester in TVWSP's  
> > ongoing blog about stories, Story Quests, and education.
> >
> > To read my latest musings on this subject, visit:
> http://tinyurl.com/yjxwpnk
> > Would love to hear your reactions both on the list here and as  
> > comments on the blog.
> >
>

--
Sheila Webber
Senior Lecturer, Department of Information Studies, University of Sheffield,
211 Portobello Street, Sheffield S1 4DP, UK
0114 222 2641
[hidden email]
The information literacy weblog - http://information-literacy.blogspot.com/
Sheila Yoshikawa (SL) blog: http://adventuresofyoshikawa.blogspot.com/
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[Martin Keltz]

As an interesting exercise, Google your real/professional name and  
then the name of your avatar. The results may surprise you.

Marty Keltz, aka Marty Snowpaw, aka The Reluctant Quester
[hidden email]
www.TVWSP.com
Twitter: martysnowpaw

Sent from my iPhone

On 2009-10-22, at 7:24 AM, Sheila Webber <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> My Second Life is part of my life, and I have been thinking about  
> the name
> issue. I choose to use my RL first name (and didn't realise at the  
> time how
> lucky I was to get my first choice name!) - so it's Sheila Webber/
> Yoshikawa.
>
> I have already changed my RL family name, as I changed it when I got  
> married: I
> didn't actually think seriously of not doing this at the time,  
> partly because I
> was young, with no "reputation" under my existing name, and it was  
> longer ago,
> so women weren't questioning the name change so much.
>
> Also I was fairly happy to goodbye to my old name, as it wasn't (in  
> my view) a
> particularly lovely or interesting name, but almost no-one could  
> spell it
> properly (it was "Starns") and I found tedious to always have to  
> spell it out.
> I didn't fall in love with the name "Webber" but I felt it was an  
> improvement
> on "Starns" and actually it became approppriate as web things ended  
> up being
> important in my career.
>
> However, I didn't really choose that name whereas I DID choose  
> "Yoshikawa" and I
> have been thinking that I am happy having an alternative name, that  
> is my
> chosen name, and very much part of me. One problem now is that  
> sometimes I'm
> not sure which to use! (for example, I created a ning for  
> Information Literacy
> Week in SL - and decided to use Sheila Yoshikawa, as the main  
> activity was a SL
> one). I don't feel anonymous as Sheila Yoshikawa: you can find lots  
> if you
> google "Sheila Webber", and now increasing amounts under "Sheila  
> Yoshikawa" and
> if anything I might do more to make it easy to link the two.
>
> ***One thing I have wondered if whether this "choosing my own name  
> at last!"
> thing is felt more by women (who are more likely to have had a semi-
> arbitrary
> name change) than men? *** Quite probably there has been research on  
> this ;-)
>
> Sheila
>
> Quoting Pavig Lok <[hidden email]>:
>
>> An interesting question.
>>
>> After many years of working professionally online I believe that
>> avatar names are quite sufficient as a public outfacing identity.  
>> "Who
>> is the typist" is only a problem when there is no reputation behind
>> the nom de plume - of course one can bring first life reputation if
>> one makes their identity known to those who have a legitimate
>> interest, or build that reputation via association with real world
>> value. Heaven forbid we should be called on to associate our facebook
>> profiles instead with our professional work, then need to actively
>> manage who get's our personal cell phone number pre-emptively.
>>
>> Your students will know who your avatar is, your associates, and  
>> those
>> who attend a symposium in which you reveal it, etc... really it's
>> nobody else's business.  There's too much creepy googling going on
>> these days anyway.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>>
>> On 22/10/2009, at 10:47 AM, Martin Keltz wrote:
>>
>>> Avatar anonymity has often been debated on the SLED List. Does the
>>> professional educator use his/her real name, especially since that
>>> option is now coming from LL? I think the real question is...who is
>>> the person behind the avatar? As Peter Ludlow asks in "The Second
>>> Life Herald The Virtual World that Witnessed The Dawn of the
>>> Metaverse," who is the typist?
>>>
>>> This question is particularly relevant to me now as I embody and
>>> give voice to the persona of the Reluctant Quester in TVWSP's
>>> ongoing blog about stories, Story Quests, and education.
>>>
>>> To read my latest musings on this subject, visit:
>> http://tinyurl.com/yjxwpnk
>>> Would love to hear your reactions both on the list here and as
>>> comments on the blog.
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sheila Webber
> Senior Lecturer, Department of Information Studies, University of  
> Sheffield,
> 211 Portobello Street, Sheffield S1 4DP, UK
> 0114 222 2641
> [hidden email]
> The information literacy weblog - http://information-literacy.blogspot.com/
> Sheila Yoshikawa (SL) blog: http://adventuresofyoshikawa.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Educators mailing list
> To unsubscribe
> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators

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[Marc R. Stephens]

Hello SLED,

I don't understand the people that get all bent out of shape over
needing to know RL identities in SL. 99% of the time it's no one's
business who an avatar's RL self is. In situations where I need to
relate real life names to avatar names (such as for assessment, etc) I
simply make a list for my own reference. Otherwise I just refer to
people by their avatar names while inworld and their RL names while in
RL... if I can remember it, its not as easy without the name floating
over their head. :)

I'm pretty careful about keeping my 'work' and 'play' avatars as truly
separate identities. Success (at least as far as the web is concerned)
is confirmed with the technique you described... I get a lot of hits for
both avatar names, but my 'work' avatar is the only one that has any
connection revealed to my real life self, exactly as planned.

-Marc


Marty Snowpaw wrote:
> As an interesting exercise, Google your real/professional name and  
> then the name of your avatar. The results may surprise you.
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[Rolig Loon]

I quite agree, personally, Marc. It's nobody's business who I am in
RL, and I don't give a hoot who anyone else is either. My RL identity
and credentials do not depend in any way on what I do in SL, and my
ability to do good work in SL does not depend on my knowing who anyone
else may be in RL.  At the same time, I can understand easily that if
you are in world in a professional capacity, especially if you are
representing a business or an academic institution, your SL identity
is not really your own, and you cannot separate RL and SL
successfully. You and I can afford to be gleefully anonymous, Marc,
but that's not a luxury that some people can enjoy.

BTW, as a curious side issue to this thread, I usually notice who
signs SLED posts with a RL name rather than a SL name. I take that as
a cue about which identity they prefer to be known by, so I respond in
kind.  I used to think that it was also a measure of how immersed a
person felt in SL, but I've come to believe that the division is more
along occupational lines. As your note suggests, people who are in SL
to teach or do other professional work use their RL names in SLED,
sometimes without giving an SL name at all. Those who are here
primarily to learn and enjoy use their SL names, sometimes without
giving a RL name at all.   Maybe that's a researcher's first survey
datum to see how people feel about the anonymity continuum?

Rolig

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Marc Stephens <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello SLED,
>
> I don't understand the people that get all bent out of shape over
> needing to know RL identities in SL. 99% of the time it's no one's
> business who an avatar's RL self is. In situations where I need to
> relate real life names to avatar names (such as for assessment, etc) I
> simply make a list for my own reference. Otherwise I just refer to
> people by their avatar names while inworld and their RL names while in
> RL... if I can remember it, its not as easy without the name floating
> over their head. :)
>
> I'm pretty careful about keeping my 'work' and 'play' avatars as truly
> separate identities. Success (at least as far as the web is concerned)
> is confirmed with the technique you described... I get a lot of hits for
> both avatar names, but my 'work' avatar is the only one that has any
> connection revealed to my real life self, exactly as planned.
>
> -Marc
>
>
> Marty Snowpaw wrote:
>> As an interesting exercise, Google your real/professional name and
>> then the name of your avatar. The results may surprise you.
> _______________________________________________
> Educators mailing list
> To unsubscribe
> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
>

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[Daniel Smith-2]

Rolig hinted at a continuum.  I'd say people gravitate towards augmentationist or immersionist, and it depends on the current activity and avatar.  Gwyneth Llewelyn did a great essay on this:

http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/03/09/immersionism-and-augmentationism-revisited/

There are as many approaches to handling the RL/SL identity issue as there are identities, and there is no all-encompassing 'right answer' :)  There are a lot of 'well, it depends' scenarios though.  The augmentationists are far more likely to blend in aspects of their real life into their SL identity.

Daniel / Bucky (SL - sometimes immersionist, but usually more augmentationist)

--
Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California
http://daniel.org/resume


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[Jonathan Greenlee]

I have seen lots of great discussion from the side of "should I disclose my Rl identity or not".  What about the other side, which I think of as being the question of trust. Which includes considering when trust is a non- issue such as when you meet an animal avatar ( obviously you did not just meet a bunny online).
I think in some SL situations trust becomes an issue, such as " is this avatar a trustworthy representation of gender" (without clearifying what I mean by trustworthy) or "age" or "ability" or some other quality.
I would like to see what discussion there might be on this aspect.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 22, 2009, at 12:30 PM, Rolig Loon <[hidden email]> wrote:

I quite agree, personally, Marc. It's nobody's business who I am in
RL, and I don't give a hoot who anyone else is either. My RL identity
and credentials do not depend in any way on what I do in SL, and my
ability to do good work in SL does not depend on my knowing who anyone
else may be in RL.  At the same time, I can understand easily that if
you are in world in a professional capacity, especially if you are
representing a business or an academic institution, your SL identity
is not really your own, and you cannot separate RL and SL
successfully. You and I can afford to be gleefully anonymous, Marc,
but that's not a luxury that some people can enjoy.

BTW, as a curious side issue to this thread, I usually notice who
signs SLED posts with a RL name rather than a SL name. I take that as
a cue about which identity they prefer to be known by, so I respond in
kind.  I used to think that it was also a measure of how immersed a
person felt in SL, but I've come to believe that the division is more
along occupational lines. As your note suggests, people who are in SL
to teach or do other professional work use their RL names in SLED,
sometimes without giving an SL name at all. Those who are here
primarily to learn and enjoy use their SL names, sometimes without
giving a RL name at all.   Maybe that's a researcher's first survey
datum to see how people feel about the anonymity continuum?

Rolig

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Marc Stephens <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello SLED,

I don't understand the people that get all bent out of shape over
needing to know RL identities in SL. 99% of the time it's no one's
business who an avatar's RL self is. In situations where I need to
relate real life names to avatar names (such as for assessment, etc) I
simply make a list for my own reference. Otherwise I just refer to
people by their avatar names while inworld and their RL names while in
RL... if I can remember it, its not as easy without the name floating
over their head. :)

I'm pretty careful about keeping my 'work' and 'play' avatars as truly
separate identities. Success (at least as far as the web is concerned)
is confirmed with the technique you described... I get a lot of hits for
both avatar names, but my 'work' avatar is the only one that has any
connection revealed to my real life self, exactly as planned.

-Marc


Marty Snowpaw wrote:
As an interesting exercise, Google your real/professional name and
then the name of your avatar. The results may surprise you.
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[Sheila Webber]

Quoting Rolig Loon <[hidden email]>:
> else may be in RL.  At the same time, I can understand easily that if
> you are in world in a professional capacity, especially if you are
> representing a business or an academic institution, your SL identity
> is not really your own, and you cannot separate RL and SL
> successfully. You and I can afford to be gleefully anonymous, Marc,
> but that's not a luxury that some people can enjoy.

Hmmm but I'm not sure that I ever saw that as a particular luxury. I'm sure I
*am* influenced by the fact that I use SL professionally, but I spend more
time, probably, wondering round looking at stuff, buying clothes, taking
pictures of landscapes and other things that aren't "professional", a mix. I
suppose when I came into SL I still just saw it as me, doing a mixture of
things like in RL, and some of the things are different, but it's all me.

I don't see myself as being most importantly defined by my name. That's
essentially a label, in RL as well, to me. I'm behaving like me in SL, it is
me, so I don't feel of myself as being anonymous just because it says "Sheila
Yoshikawa" over my head. I think I'm a slightly different "me" in all sorts of
situations (the me who blogs information literacy, the me who blogs SL, the me
who teaches, the me who stands up at conferences, the me who lounges around &
giggles at home, and so forth), so "SY me" is part of the spectrum, but with
more OBVIOUS outward differences (name, blue hair etc).

Actually this is tired thursday night burbling, so I'll stop there ;-))

I feel a need to say that I think it is absolutely the right of anyone to say as
much or as little as they want about aspects of their lives, in RL, SL or
wherever, and I don't normally go round demanding people's RL names unless I am
asking them to interact with my students, and there I do feel I have a
responsibility to check.

I know people feel differently about these things, names, identities;
difference, that's one of the things in life that's interesting IMHO

Sheila
--
Sheila Webber
Senior Lecturer, Department of Information Studies, University of Sheffield,
211 Portobello Street, Sheffield S1 4DP, UK
0114 222 2641
[hidden email]
The information literacy weblog - http://information-literacy.blogspot.com/
Sheila Yoshikawa (SL) blog: http://adventuresofyoshikawa.blogspot.com/
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[Linda Rogers]

I guess it depends a great deal how you use Second Life.  I recently secured a contract for a young pianist from Italy to make their North American debut next season.  I think he'd have been sorry to discover I was not who I said I was :-)

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Sheila Webber <[hidden email]> wrote:

Quoting Rolig Loon <[hidden email]>:
> else may be in RL.  At the same time, I can understand easily that if
> you are in world in a professional capacity, especially if you are
> representing a business or an academic institution, your SL identity
> is not really your own, and you cannot separate RL and SL
> successfully. You and I can afford to be gleefully anonymous, Marc,
> but that's not a luxury that some people can enjoy.

Hmmm but I'm not sure that I ever saw that as a particular luxury. I'm sure I
*am* influenced by the fact that I use SL professionally, but I spend more
time, probably, wondering round looking at stuff, buying clothes, taking
pictures of landscapes and other things that aren't "professional", a mix. I
suppose when I came into SL I still just saw it as me, doing a mixture of
things like in RL, and some of the things are different, but it's all me.

I don't see myself as being most importantly defined by my name. That's
essentially a label, in RL as well, to me. I'm behaving like me in SL, it is
me, so I don't feel of myself as being anonymous just because it says "Sheila
Yoshikawa" over my head. I think I'm a slightly different "me" in all sorts of
situations (the me who blogs information literacy, the me who blogs SL, the me
who teaches, the me who stands up at conferences, the me who lounges around &
giggles at home, and so forth), so "SY me" is part of the spectrum, but with
more OBVIOUS outward differences (name, blue hair etc).

Actually this is tired thursday night burbling, so I'll stop there ;-))

I feel a need to say that I think it is absolutely the right of anyone to say as
much or as little as they want about aspects of their lives, in RL, SL or
wherever, and I don't normally go round demanding people's RL names unless I am
asking them to interact with my students, and there I do feel I have a
responsibility to check.

I know people feel differently about these things, names, identities;
difference, that's one of the things in life that's interesting IMHO

Sheila

--
Sheila Webber
Senior Lecturer, Department of Information Studies, University of Sheffield,
211 Portobello Street, Sheffield S1 4DP, UK
0114 222 2641
[hidden email]
The information literacy weblog - http://information-literacy.blogspot.com/
Sheila Yoshikawa (SL) blog: http://adventuresofyoshikawa.blogspot.com/
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--
========================
Linda Rogers
http://breadandroseslife.blogspot.com
http://music-island.blogspot.com
http://www.twitter.com/lindar


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[Rolig Loon]

That's exactly my point, Sheila. For you and many others, anonymity
would be professionally counterproductive. You cannot afford to hide
your RL name, even if you wanted to for reasons of security (or
whatever). As interesting as I find the whole notion of an
immersionism - augmentalism continuum, I think it may be a red herring
here -- or at least a confounding element rather than the main issue.
RL identities are not important to my enjoyment of SL, but they HAVE
to be for you -- even if we are both deeply immersed in SL.

Rolig

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Linda Rogers <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I guess it depends a great deal how you use Second Life.  I recently secured
> a contract for a young pianist from Italy to make their North American debut
> next season.  I think he'd have been sorry to discover I was not who I said
> I was :-)
>
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[Rolig Loon]

Yes, trust and trustworthiness are mirror images of each other. To a
degree, a person's willingness to disclose her/her RL identity may
suggest how much you can trust her/him. There are many situations,
however, where that level of information is irrelevant. My RL identity
is not important, for example, if someone in SL asks me to sell a
dress I have made or to write a script for some purpose. They care
only whether I can produce the product. If I were romantically
entangled with someone in SL, or if I were trying to get RL funding
for my work in SL, however, my RL identity could matter a great deal.
You would be right to mistrust me if I wouldn't share it. SL aside,
you and I deal with these issues all the time.  The difference here is
simply that SL makes it easier to be anonymous than we usually can in
RL. If there are no professional reasons that demand identity
disclosure, anonymity does not necessarily need to be tied to trust.

Rolig

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Jonathan Greenlee
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have seen lots of great discussion from the side of "should I disclose my Rl identity or not".  What about the other side, which I think of as being the question of trust. Which includes considering when trust is a non- issue such as when you meet an animal avatar ( obviously you did not just meet a bunny online).
> I think in some SL situations trust becomes an issue, such as " is this avatar a trustworthy representation of gender" (without clearifying what I mean by trustworthy) or "age" or "ability" or some other quality.
> I would like to see what discussion there might be on this aspect.
>
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[Marlyn - RILug]

I find that topic of great interest of course because of the paper I am writing. In particular, when dealing with 'religion' in Second Life, there is always the issue of trust and trustworthiness. How do we know that the person 'preaching' or providing a religious 'decree' or 'fatwa' or giving Bible/Quran study lessons is trustworthy? I have asked this of my respondents and it surprised me that only one saw that as a 'might happen I suppose' problem.

My paper is focused entirely on identity and the 'reveal and conceal' aspect of it so I think it will be quite interesting for some here. I cannot give it out yet because I am presenting it in November at a conference, but will give the url to those interested once I post it online.
:)

One thing I would suggest when talking about identity is to look at the Johari window http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johari_window  which has four quadrants: arena, facade, bling spot, unknown. This is a very interesting way of looking at avatars vs reality in Second Life.



Marlyn Tadros, Ph.D.
- Interactive Media Design Faculty,
New England Institute of Art, MA.
- Executive Director,
Virtual Activism
http://www.virtualactivism.org
http://hakawitech.wordpress.com
- Founder, Rhode Island LUG
www.linuxri.org
SecondLife wiki:
http://socialnets.wikispaces.com
[avatars: IlikeFall, Sucha Jewell]

--- On Thu, 10/22/09, Rolig Loon <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Rolig Loon <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [SLED] Avatar Anonymity
To: "SL Educators (The SLED List)" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 2:52 PM

Yes, trust and trustworthiness are mirror images of each other. To a
degree, a person's willingness to disclose her/her RL identity may
suggest how much you can trust her/him. There are many situations,
however, where that level of information is irrelevant. My RL identity
is not important, for example, if someone in SL asks me to sell a
dress I have made or to write a script for some purpose. They care
only whether I can produce the product. If I were romantically
entangled with someone in SL, or if I were trying to get RL funding
for my work in SL, however, my RL identity could matter a great deal.
You would be right to mistrust me if I wouldn't share it. SL aside,
you and I deal with these issues all the time.  The difference here is
simply that SL makes it easier to be anonymous than we usually can in
RL. If there are no professional reasons that demand identity
disclosure, anonymity does not necessarily need to be tied to trust.

Rolig

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Jonathan Greenlee
<jonathangreenlee@...> wrote:
> I have seen lots of great discussion from the side of "should I disclose my Rl identity or not".  What about the other side, which I think of as being the question of trust. Which includes considering when trust is a non- issue such as when you meet an animal avatar ( obviously you did not just meet a bunny online).
> I think in some SL situations trust becomes an issue, such as " is this avatar a trustworthy representation of gender" (without clearifying what I mean by trustworthy) or "age" or "ability" or some other quality.
> I would like to see what discussion there might be on this aspect.
>
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[Martin, Jocelyn]

Rolig,
In my case, it's that my signature in my email program is my real name, I don't want my SL name attached to every email that goes out, and I'm lazy about adding my SL name to SLED responses. :)

Jocelyn
Brenna Meredith
 

BTW, as a curious side issue to this thread, I usually notice who
signs SLED posts with a RL name rather than a SL name. I take that as
a cue about which identity they prefer to be known by, so I respond in
kind.  I used to think that it was also a measure of how immersed a
person felt in SL, but I've come to believe that the division is more
along occupational lines.  
 
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[Marrapodi, Elisabeth]

Ditto,
My real name on the sig but since I only use SL for work related
research about <5% of my work time, no need to attach my avatar's
persona to my sig line. I provide my SL name on a need to know basis
and/or upon request. No hiding but I'm sure people would be scratching
their heads if I added another name to my already long name :)


Elisabeth Jacobsen Marrapodi
Director, Library Services
Trinitas Regional Medical Center
225 Williamson Street
Elizabeth, New Jersey 07207
voice: 908-994-5488
fax: [phone]
 
"A cheerful heart is good medicine" Proverbs 17:22
 
Blog:          http://www.trinitaslibrary.blogspot.com
Slideshare: www.slideshare.net/emarrapodi
Linkedin:  www.linkedin.com/in/EJacobsenMarrapodi
P  Think before printing this email - you could save a tree
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Martin,
Jocelyn
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:14 PM
To: SL Educators (The SLED List)
Subject: Re: [SLED] Avatar Anonymity

Rolig,
In my case, it's that my signature in my email program is my real name,
I don't want my SL name attached to every email that goes out, and I'm
lazy about adding my SL name to SLED responses. :)

Jocelyn
Brenna Meredith
 

BTW, as a curious side issue to this thread, I usually notice who signs
SLED posts with a RL name rather than a SL name. I take that as a cue
about which identity they prefer to be known by, so I respond in kind.
I used to think that it was also a measure of how immersed a person felt
in SL, but I've come to believe that the division is more along
occupational lines.  
 
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[Rolig Loon]

Aha... exactly as I suspected, then. The signature you use in SLED is
more a matter of professional identity than a matter of how immersed
you are in SL. If you had an email address that was purely for SL, as
I do, would you be more likely to use your avatar name?

I am actually less interested in what people put in a signature block
than I am in how they sign individual e-mail messages. A signature
block is a handy shorthand, but it can be rather passive, in the sense
that you don't have to make a conscious decision about signing each
message. In the absence of a signature block, people have to make an
active decision about which name to use each time. THAT's when I think
I get a better feeling for how the person identifies with SL ..... as
an individual or as a representative of a profession.

This is a nice little area for speculation. It almost makes me wish I
had a grad student in need of a short research project.  ;-)

Rolig

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Martin, Jocelyn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Rolig,
> In my case, it's that my signature in my email program is my real name, I don't want my SL name attached to every email that goes out, and I'm lazy about adding my SL name to SLED responses. :)
>
> Jocelyn
> Brenna Meredith
>
>
> BTW, as a curious side issue to this thread, I usually notice who
> signs SLED posts with a RL name rather than a SL name. I take that as
> a cue about which identity they prefer to be known by, so I respond in
> kind.  I used to think that it was also a measure of how immersed a
> person felt in SL, but I've come to believe that the division is more
> along occupational lines.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Educators mailing list
> To unsubscribe
> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
>

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[Martin, Jocelyn]

Rolig,
Yes, if I had a separate email addy for SLED, I'd probably use my SL name. But this account is my work account. :) I just use my first name for the 'reply to email' signature block. :)


Jocelyn
 
 
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[Morgan Leigh]

Greetings,
This is one of my bug bears... We decide how an avatar can be trusted in
the same way we decide if a meatspace person can be trusted -
experience. How does one choose a religious advisor in meatspace? One
tries them out. Remember not all religions have centralised priesthood
bureaucracies like Christianity does. It's much less structured in most
other religions, especially in paganism. And even in the case of
Christianity, people will shop for a priest that they like. Second Life
seems to make people think about these kinds of issues as if they were
exclusive to the virtual environment. In fact they are just as pertinent
to meatspace.

Regards,

Morgan Leigh
PhD Candidate
School of History, Philosophy, Religion and Classics
University of Queensland
http://slurl.com/secondlife/UQ%20Religion%20Bazaar/127/49/48


Marlyn - RILug wrote:

> I find that topic of great interest of course because of the paper I am
> writing. In particular, when dealing with 'religion' in Second Life,
> there is always the issue of trust and trustworthiness. How do we know
> that the person 'preaching' or providing a religious 'decree' or 'fatwa'
> or giving Bible/Quran study lessons is trustworthy? I have asked this of
> my respondents and it surprised me that only one saw that as a 'might
> happen I suppose' problem.
>
> My paper is focused entirely on identity and the 'reveal and conceal'
> aspect of it so I think it will be quite interesting for some here. I
> cannot give it out yet because I am presenting it in November at a
> conference, but will give the url to those interested once I post it online.
> :)
>
> One thing I would suggest when talking about identity is to look at the
> Johari window http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johari_window  which has four
> quadrants: arena, facade, bling spot, unknown. This is a very
> interesting way of looking at avatars vs reality in Second Life.
>
>
>
> Marlyn Tadros, Ph.D.
> - Interactive Media Design Faculty,
> New England Institute of Art, MA.
> - Executive Director,
> Virtual Activism
> http://www.virtualactivism.org
> http://hakawitech.wordpress.com
> - Founder, Rhode Island LUG
> www.linuxri.org
> SecondLife wiki:
> http://socialnets.wikispaces.com
> [avatars: IlikeFall, Sucha Jewell]
>
> --- On *Thu, 10/22/09, Rolig Loon /<[hidden email]>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: Rolig Loon <[hidden email]>
>     Subject: Re: [SLED] Avatar Anonymity
>     To: "SL Educators (The SLED List)" <[hidden email]>
>     Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 2:52 PM
>
>     Yes, trust and trustworthiness are mirror images of each other. To a
>     degree, a person's willingness to disclose her/her RL identity may
>     suggest how much you can trust her/him. There are many situations,
>     however, where that level of information is irrelevant. My RL identity
>     is not important, for example, if someone in SL asks me to sell a
>     dress I have made or to write a script for some purpose. They care
>     only whether I can produce the product. If I were romantically
>     entangled with someone in SL, or if I were trying to get RL funding
>     for my work in SL, however, my RL identity could matter a great deal.
>     You would be right to mistrust me if I wouldn't share it. SL aside,
>     you and I deal with these issues all the time.  The difference here is
>     simply that SL makes it easier to be anonymous than we usually can in
>     RL. If there are no professional reasons that demand identity
>     disclosure, anonymity does not necessarily need to be tied to trust.
>
>     Rolig
>
>     On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Jonathan Greenlee
>     <[hidden email]
>     </[hidden email]>> wrote:
>     > I have seen lots of great discussion from the side of "should I
>     disclose my Rl identity or not".  What about the other side, which I
>     think of as being the question of trust. Which includes considering
>     when trust is a non- issue such as when you meet an animal avatar (
>     obviously you did not just meet a bunny online).
>     > I think in some SL situations trust becomes an issue, such as " is
>     this avatar a trustworthy representation of gender" (without
>     clearifying what I mean by trustworthy) or "age" or "ability" or
>     some other quality.
>     > I would like to see what discussion there might be on this aspect.
>     >
>     _______________________________________________
>     Educators mailing list
>     To unsubscribe
>     https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Educators mailing list
> To unsubscribe
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--

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[Cider Moon]

This points out one of the strong points of using MUVEs for education.
Many things we have come to do 'intuitively' (either through
experience, enculturation, habit, etc.) in meatspace we have to
actually put some thought into how it's done and all possible
implications when we do the same thing in a virtual environment. MUVEs
can be a great tool for gaining new perspective on things we generally
take for granted.
~Cider

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Morgan Leigh <[hidden email]> wrote:
<snip>
>Second Life
> seems to make people think about these kinds of issues as if they were
> exclusive to the virtual environment. In fact they are just as pertinent
> to meatspace.
</snip>
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