Australia to possibly ban Second Life??

[Scylla Nesbitt]

The point about the histrionics, hysteria, and indeed paranoia that
greets the appearance of this kind of story is well taken.  I can't
imagine how Australia could really block SL without erecting a
firewall of nearly Chinese proportions around the continent.  I also
suspect that this is mostly politicking, but not being Aussie myself,
I can't really do more than speculate.

I would however like to make two comments about a previous posting on
this subject by John Waugh.

> With the creation of Zindra, Linden Labs have virtually created two
> "games" - to use the Australian reference - and it should be easy enough
> for any Federal Government agency to block the "adult* more raunchy game
> while continuing to allow access to the "PG, Mature" Second Life.
> Although not on line this has been done with video games such as Grand
> Theft Auto with a special edition being created for  the Australian
> audience.
> Given this,  for teaching purposes, "blocks" on the "Adult" game should
> not affect Australian educators because  they have no reason to go into
> Zindra (for education purposes) and so should have little effect on SL
> in Australia - unless, of course, the main reason for some Australian
> "educators" being in the game is  "adult" content.

I think educators (and SL residents generally) would be well advised
not to place too much faith in the idea that Zindra, and the new Adult
content classification, are going to insulate the rest of the grid
from the sex and violence.  The system is barely in place, and the
firewall separating AO from the rest of the grid is already proving
incredibly leaky.  Adult content providers have been told, in Linden
office hours and elsewhere, that adult content is really only a
problem in "Mature" areas if it is advertised or out in the open.
Gorean sims are, apparently, going to be exempt from the move if they
keep their slave RP within their sims, and the sex stuff tucked out of
sight.  (I'd love confirmation or denial of this, btw, from anyone
involved in Gor on this list . . . )  Private landowners and renters
can keep whatever content they wish in Mature, as long as it is
"private," i.e., behind walls or in skyboxes.  And we all know how
effective walls are in SL . . .  Finally, and most controversially, LL
has just made it clear that child avs are allowed on Zindra, albeit
with the reminder that sexualized age play is still prohibited.

I think that "PG" areas will be kept pretty secure by LL.  But I
wouldn't rely on the supposition that "Mature" areas will now be in
any sense free of sex or violence.  It will just be somewhat more
hidden.

> PS: I also wonder whether the Australian video games industry  is not
> trying to draw Second Life and other virtual worlds into their bed, as
> it were, to obfuscate the real issues of violence in many actual games.
> It's obviously not about pornography because some of the most raunchy
> pornographic sites on the web originate from Australia: as they are not
> "games" however, are not being discussed in this context.

With respect, I don't think anyone needs to try very hard to draw SL
into "bed" with the worst of the video game industry.  Agreed that SL
is NOT a game, but there is a huge amount of games playing here.  And
there are already very "real issues of violence" in Second Life.  Dark
sims and Dolcett RP, to name just two, contain content and simulations
that are every bit as violent and disturbing as what is to be found in
most commercially available games.  In fact, in some ways, the
graphically pornographic nature of this material in SL makes it vastly
more problematic than the sorts of things found in Grand Theft Auto,
for example, and more in line with the kind of "rape play" games now
available mostly in Japan, and currently being targeted by Equality
Now.

Scylla
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[Morgan Leigh]

You have hit the nail on the head Scylla. Various governments in
Australia have ridden the 'filter the internet' bandwagon. The latest
government should have learned from these previous attempts that, as you
so rightly say, unless they want to turn Australia in China they just
cannot do the thing they seek. I for one am totally not worried that I
will wake one day soon to find SL unavailable to me. I am however
worried by the broader issue of governments seeking to decide for adults
what those adults can and cannot do. Australia is sadly lacking any kind
of bill of rights, our constitution apparently 'implies' we have certain
rights, like free speech etc., but beyond that we are still just
subjects of her majesty.

I spoke to the journalist, Asher Moses, who wrote the smh story and he
said that Second Life was never actually mentioned, just 'online games'.
Mr Moses informed me that the story was based on a question the Green's
senator for Western Australia, Scott Ludlum, asked of the government.
The question was "(13) Will computer games exceeding the requirements of
the MA15+ classification be RC (refused classification) and potentially
blocked by ISPs on a mandatory basis for adults; if not, what other
exceptions to RC would be similarly permitted." This info can be found
here
http://scott-ludlam.greensmps.org.au/content/question/further-details-about-blacklisted-items-and-urls
. Mr Moses expressed surprise at the resultant hype regarding Second Life.

Regards,

Morgan Leigh
PhD Candidate
School of History, Philosophy, Religion and Classics
University of Queensland
http://slurl.com/secondlife/UQ%20Religion%20Bazaar/127/49/48




Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

> The point about the histrionics, hysteria, and indeed paranoia that
> greets the appearance of this kind of story is well taken.  I can't
> imagine how Australia could really block SL without erecting a
> firewall of nearly Chinese proportions around the continent.  I also
> suspect that this is mostly politicking, but not being Aussie myself,
> I can't really do more than speculate.
>
> I would however like to make two comments about a previous posting on
> this subject by John Waugh.
>
>> With the creation of Zindra, Linden Labs have virtually created two
>> "games" - to use the Australian reference - and it should be easy enough
>> for any Federal Government agency to block the "adult* more raunchy game
>> while continuing to allow access to the "PG, Mature" Second Life.
>> Although not on line this has been done with video games such as Grand
>> Theft Auto with a special edition being created for  the Australian
>> audience.
>> Given this,  for teaching purposes, "blocks" on the "Adult" game should
>> not affect Australian educators because  they have no reason to go into
>> Zindra (for education purposes) and so should have little effect on SL
>> in Australia - unless, of course, the main reason for some Australian
>> "educators" being in the game is  "adult" content.
>
> I think educators (and SL residents generally) would be well advised
> not to place too much faith in the idea that Zindra, and the new Adult
> content classification, are going to insulate the rest of the grid
> from the sex and violence.  The system is barely in place, and the
> firewall separating AO from the rest of the grid is already proving
> incredibly leaky.  Adult content providers have been told, in Linden
> office hours and elsewhere, that adult content is really only a
> problem in "Mature" areas if it is advertised or out in the open.
> Gorean sims are, apparently, going to be exempt from the move if they
> keep their slave RP within their sims, and the sex stuff tucked out of
> sight.  (I'd love confirmation or denial of this, btw, from anyone
> involved in Gor on this list . . . )  Private landowners and renters
> can keep whatever content they wish in Mature, as long as it is
> "private," i.e., behind walls or in skyboxes.  And we all know how
> effective walls are in SL . . .  Finally, and most controversially, LL
> has just made it clear that child avs are allowed on Zindra, albeit
> with the reminder that sexualized age play is still prohibited.
>
> I think that "PG" areas will be kept pretty secure by LL.  But I
> wouldn't rely on the supposition that "Mature" areas will now be in
> any sense free of sex or violence.  It will just be somewhat more
> hidden.
>
>> PS: I also wonder whether the Australian video games industry  is not
>> trying to draw Second Life and other virtual worlds into their bed, as
>> it were, to obfuscate the real issues of violence in many actual games.
>> It's obviously not about pornography because some of the most raunchy
>> pornographic sites on the web originate from Australia: as they are not
>> "games" however, are not being discussed in this context.
>
> With respect, I don't think anyone needs to try very hard to draw SL
> into "bed" with the worst of the video game industry.  Agreed that SL
> is NOT a game, but there is a huge amount of games playing here.  And
> there are already very "real issues of violence" in Second Life.  Dark
> sims and Dolcett RP, to name just two, contain content and simulations
> that are every bit as violent and disturbing as what is to be found in
> most commercially available games.  In fact, in some ways, the
> graphically pornographic nature of this material in SL makes it vastly
> more problematic than the sorts of things found in Grand Theft Auto,
> for example, and more in line with the kind of "rape play" games now
> available mostly in Japan, and currently being targeted by Equality
> Now.
>
> Scylla
> _______________________________________________
> Educators mailing list
> To unsubscribe
> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators

--

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[Alexandrine Librarian]

This is an interesting thread to follow...it seems to me to be an attempt on a national level to control the behavior of a people and makes me think of our own prohibition on alcohol here in the US back in the early part of the 20th century, that only produced an era of gangsterism and now our "war on drugs" that  is only resulting in bigger and badder organizations and people...in the US we have never really learned anything from a national effort at prohibition.  Larry/Kallias

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Scylla Rhiadra <[hidden email]> wrote:

The point about the histrionics, hysteria, and indeed paranoia that
greets the appearance of this kind of story is well taken.  I can't
imagine how Australia could really block SL without erecting a
firewall of nearly Chinese proportions around the continent.  I also
suspect that this is mostly politicking, but not being Aussie myself,
I can't really do more than speculate.

I would however like to make two comments about a previous posting on
this subject by John Waugh.

> With the creation of Zindra, Linden Labs have virtually created two
> "games" - to use the Australian reference - and it should be easy enough
> for any Federal Government agency to block the "adult* more raunchy game
> while continuing to allow access to the "PG, Mature" Second Life.
> Although not on line this has been done with video games such as Grand
> Theft Auto with a special edition being created for  the Australian
> audience.
> Given this,  for teaching purposes, "blocks" on the "Adult" game should
> not affect Australian educators because  they have no reason to go into
> Zindra (for education purposes) and so should have little effect on SL
> in Australia - unless, of course, the main reason for some Australian
> "educators" being in the game is  "adult" content.

I think educators (and SL residents generally) would be well advised
not to place too much faith in the idea that Zindra, and the new Adult
content classification, are going to insulate the rest of the grid
from the sex and violence.  The system is barely in place, and the
firewall separating AO from the rest of the grid is already proving
incredibly leaky.  Adult content providers have been told, in Linden
office hours and elsewhere, that adult content is really only a
problem in "Mature" areas if it is advertised or out in the open.
Gorean sims are, apparently, going to be exempt from the move if they
keep their slave RP within their sims, and the sex stuff tucked out of
sight.  (I'd love confirmation or denial of this, btw, from anyone
involved in Gor on this list . . . )  Private landowners and renters
can keep whatever content they wish in Mature, as long as it is
"private," i.e., behind walls or in skyboxes.  And we all know how
effective walls are in SL . . .  Finally, and most controversially, LL
has just made it clear that child avs are allowed on Zindra, albeit
with the reminder that sexualized age play is still prohibited.

I think that "PG" areas will be kept pretty secure by LL.  But I
wouldn't rely on the supposition that "Mature" areas will now be in
any sense free of sex or violence.  It will just be somewhat more
hidden.

> PS: I also wonder whether the Australian video games industry  is not
> trying to draw Second Life and other virtual worlds into their bed, as
> it were, to obfuscate the real issues of violence in many actual games.
> It's obviously not about pornography because some of the most raunchy
> pornographic sites on the web originate from Australia: as they are not
> "games" however, are not being discussed in this context.

With respect, I don't think anyone needs to try very hard to draw SL
into "bed" with the worst of the video game industry.  Agreed that SL
is NOT a game, but there is a huge amount of games playing here.  And
there are already very "real issues of violence" in Second Life.  Dark
sims and Dolcett RP, to name just two, contain content and simulations
that are every bit as violent and disturbing as what is to be found in
most commercially available games.  In fact, in some ways, the
graphically pornographic nature of this material in SL makes it vastly
more problematic than the sorts of things found in Grand Theft Auto,
for example, and more in line with the kind of "rape play" games now
available mostly in Japan, and currently being targeted by Equality
Now.

Scylla
_______________________________________________
Educators mailing list
To unsubscribe
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[Cider Moon]

Yes and no!

Yes, the US has not yet learned the prohibition only creates an
underground & more lucrative market. No, the US has well learned that
the prohibition that creates an underground & more lucrative market.

There are also various conspiracy theories about how the flow of
prohibited substances are being controlled (by those who claim to wish
to eliminate them) in order to influence public perception of reality.
Oh wait yes, culturally relevant information, entertainment, and the
advances of the so-called civilization are being disrupted by the
folks with their heel on your windpipe (or in this case, wire-cutters
on your bandwidth).

The folks with terminally narrow vision that call folks names like
"hysterical" about the omnipresent threat of censorship reeks to me of
a bit of an hysterical (reactionary?) outburst in itself, not to
mention totally unaware of their own irony. The hypocrites who remain
unaware that they lay at the root of the problem itself.

Censorship is wrong. As are many things.

And Larry, right on, I totally hear what you're saying (and I'm in
full agreement with what you posted here!) - the bulk of what's in
this email, though in response to what you posted here and by many
others on the list, is not directed at you! :)

Censorship has never solved a (perceived) problem. It's only exacerbated them.

Cheers,
~!W


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Alexandrine
Librarian<[hidden email]> wrote:
> This is an interesting thread to follow...it seems to me to be an attempt on
> a national level to control the behavior of a people and makes me think of
> our own prohibition on alcohol here in the US back in the early part of the
> 20th century, that only produced an era of gangsterism and now our "war on
> drugs" that  is only resulting in bigger and badder organizations and
> people...in the US we have never really learned anything from a national
> effort at prohibition.  Larry/Kallias
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Educators mailing list
To unsubscribe
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[Anne Smith]

Yes, agreed, Cider.

A healthy debate is much more effective without the labelling of each other
in the process. Labels fragment the objective thread of any discussion,
changing it from an objective discussion to a subjective struggle, which in
itself diminishes good will and collaboration and often squashes what could
have been an interesting discussion. We can still make our points without
the labels.

Now if only we could teach our politicians to learn this!

Regards,

Anne


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Cider Moon
Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 2:51 AM
To: SL Educators (The SLED List)
Subject: Re: [SLED] Australia to possibly ban Second Life??

Yes and no!

Yes, the US has not yet learned the prohibition only creates an
underground & more lucrative market. No, the US has well learned that
the prohibition that creates an underground & more lucrative market.

There are also various conspiracy theories about how the flow of
prohibited substances are being controlled (by those who claim to wish
to eliminate them) in order to influence public perception of reality.
Oh wait yes, culturally relevant information, entertainment, and the
advances of the so-called civilization are being disrupted by the
folks with their heel on your windpipe (or in this case, wire-cutters
on your bandwidth).

The folks with terminally narrow vision that call folks names like
"hysterical" about the omnipresent threat of censorship reeks to me of
a bit of an hysterical (reactionary?) outburst in itself, not to
mention totally unaware of their own irony. The hypocrites who remain
unaware that they lay at the root of the problem itself.

Censorship is wrong. As are many things.

And Larry, right on, I totally hear what you're saying (and I'm in
full agreement with what you posted here!) - the bulk of what's in
this email, though in response to what you posted here and by many
others on the list, is not directed at you! :)

Censorship has never solved a (perceived) problem. It's only exacerbated
them.

Cheers,
~!W


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Alexandrine
Librarian<[hidden email]> wrote:
> This is an interesting thread to follow...it seems to me to be an attempt
on
> a national level to control the behavior of a people and makes me think of
> our own prohibition on alcohol here in the US back in the early part of
the
> 20th century, that only produced an era of gangsterism and now our "war on
> drugs" that  is only resulting in bigger and badder organizations and
> people...in the US we have never really learned anything from a national
> effort at prohibition.  Larry/Kallias
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Educators mailing list
To unsubscribe
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[Marc Rexen]

I hung with the Aussies this morning while doing on-line work (2-5 SL time).  Venue was packed (.40 avatars the whole time) with a very cheery, well-behaved crowd, that was fun to hang with. 

Musician and venue tips were substantial...more than I'd expect from a US crowd (and US crowds do tip reasonably well).

I wish the Politicians well with this one...I wouldn't want to go up against Australian  Teachers (they were there), Australian Librarians (there were there too), successful Australian Business people pioneering the new frontier of a Virtual World (yup, them too), along with other "Clearly well-heeled Australians," all having a good time listening to native Australian singers (all them, with two of them married and singing with their wives).

Teachers, Librarians, Business people, Artists, Wives, Mothers, and Richer folks, all native Australian, and all having a good time with folks from around the world.

Did I mention that one was drinking Australian wine?

Yup, I wish the Politicians well with this one.

:)



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[John Waugh-2]

Cider,
The reaction was hysterical because it was not based on any facts
.....even the reporter who did the original story on which the hysteria
has been based said neither the Australian Parliamentarian Conroy nor
his spokesperson mentioned Second Life - although the bloggers have been
saying they did.
Seems there are some people who always see drama  and conspiracy where
there isn't.
I agree with you though that censorship is wrong but we live in a
(Western) world today where censorship of any sort is arguably less
pervasive than it ever has been, given the fact that elites, religions,
governments, newspaper owners, shamans, priests etc, have previously
controlled the free flow of information.

Today anything can be published on the net and often is.... somewhere
..... whether accurate or not or no matter how debased.

Cheers John Waugh

Cider Moon wrote:

> Yes and no!
>
> Yes, the US has not yet learned the prohibition only creates an
> underground & more lucrative market. No, the US has well learned that
> the prohibition that creates an underground & more lucrative market.
>
> There are also various conspiracy theories about how the flow of
> prohibited substances are being controlled (by those who claim to wish
> to eliminate them) in order to influence public perception of reality.
> Oh wait yes, culturally relevant information, entertainment, and the
> advances of the so-called civilization are being disrupted by the
> folks with their heel on your windpipe (or in this case, wire-cutters
> on your bandwidth).
>
> The folks with terminally narrow vision that call folks names like
> "hysterical" about the omnipresent threat of censorship reeks to me of
> a bit of an hysterical (reactionary?) outburst in itself, not to
> mention totally unaware of their own irony. The hypocrites who remain
> unaware that they lay at the root of the problem itself.
>
> Censorship is wrong. As are many things.
>
> And Larry, right on, I totally hear what you're saying (and I'm in
> full agreement with what you posted here!) - the bulk of what's in
> this email, though in response to what you posted here and by many
> others on the list, is not directed at you! :)
>
> Censorship has never solved a (perceived) problem. It's only exacerbated them.
>
> Cheers,
> ~!W
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Alexandrine
> Librarian<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> This is an interesting thread to follow...it seems to me to be an attempt on
>> a national level to control the behavior of a people and makes me think of
>> our own prohibition on alcohol here in the US back in the early part of the
>> 20th century, that only produced an era of gangsterism and now our "war on
>> drugs" that  is only resulting in bigger and badder organizations and
>> people...in the US we have never really learned anything from a national
>> effort at prohibition.  Larry/Kallias
> _______________________________________________
> Educators mailing list
> To unsubscribe
> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
>

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[Anne Smith]

Hi John,

I think your points were good ones. I would encourage you to let the points
stand on their own merits without emotive words such as hysteria. The word
"hysteria" is a very strong word, suggesting participants were acting
without "any" cognitive reason. I think we need to feel free to air our
concerns to check out whether information is in fact true without being
labelled by association to the topic. And this is the best forum to explore
the truth of an issue.  

I am glad to see that there is no truth in this issue.

Kind Regards,
Anne C Smith




-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John Waugh
Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2009 9:59 AM
To: SL Educators (The SLED List)
Subject: Re: [SLED] Australia to possibly ban Second Life??

Cider,
The reaction was hysterical because it was not based on any facts
.....even the reporter who did the original story on which the hysteria
has been based said neither the Australian Parliamentarian Conroy nor
his spokesperson mentioned Second Life - although the bloggers have been
saying they did.
Seems there are some people who always see drama  and conspiracy where
there isn't.
I agree with you though that censorship is wrong but we live in a
(Western) world today where censorship of any sort is arguably less
pervasive than it ever has been, given the fact that elites, religions,
governments, newspaper owners, shamans, priests etc, have previously
controlled the free flow of information.

Today anything can be published on the net and often is.... somewhere
..... whether accurate or not or no matter how debased.

Cheers John Waugh

Cider Moon wrote:

> Yes and no!
>
> Yes, the US has not yet learned the prohibition only creates an
> underground & more lucrative market. No, the US has well learned that
> the prohibition that creates an underground & more lucrative market.
>
> There are also various conspiracy theories about how the flow of
> prohibited substances are being controlled (by those who claim to wish
> to eliminate them) in order to influence public perception of reality.
> Oh wait yes, culturally relevant information, entertainment, and the
> advances of the so-called civilization are being disrupted by the
> folks with their heel on your windpipe (or in this case, wire-cutters
> on your bandwidth).
>
> The folks with terminally narrow vision that call folks names like
> "hysterical" about the omnipresent threat of censorship reeks to me of
> a bit of an hysterical (reactionary?) outburst in itself, not to
> mention totally unaware of their own irony. The hypocrites who remain
> unaware that they lay at the root of the problem itself.
>
> Censorship is wrong. As are many things.
>
> And Larry, right on, I totally hear what you're saying (and I'm in
> full agreement with what you posted here!) - the bulk of what's in
> this email, though in response to what you posted here and by many
> others on the list, is not directed at you! :)
>
> Censorship has never solved a (perceived) problem. It's only exacerbated

them.
>
> Cheers,
> ~!W
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Alexandrine
> Librarian<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> This is an interesting thread to follow...it seems to me to be an attempt
on
>> a national level to control the behavior of a people and makes me think
of
>> our own prohibition on alcohol here in the US back in the early part of
the
>> 20th century, that only produced an era of gangsterism and now our "war
on
>> drugs" that  is only resulting in bigger and badder organizations and
>> people...in the US we have never really learned anything from a national
>> effort at prohibition.  Larry/Kallias
> _______________________________________________
> Educators mailing list
> To unsubscribe
> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
>

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