-help mailinglist still active?

[Lars Monsees-2]

Hi,

I subscribed to the help mailinglist and sent some mails with RFEs but didn´t
receive those. Also, the archive
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=audacity-help as
mentioned on the contact page only brings up a sf.net "Permission Denied" page.


Lars


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[Gale Andrews]

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:36:14 +0100
"Lars Monsees" <mailings@...> wrote:
> I subscribed to the help mailinglist and sent some mails with RFEs but didn´t
> receive those. Also, the archive
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=audacity-help as
> mentioned on the contact page only brings up a sf.net "Permission Denied" page.

Lars

Thanks for joining this list. The -help list is out of use now, though
the archive is and will remain accessible. People who want personal
support should use our Forum, or join this list.

We have a new -feedback list which is a non-response list - users
won't receive personal support but can report possible bugs, feature
requests, general comments and so on that way without having to
subscribe. If your RFEs mean "requests for enhancements" the most
effective way to record those is to create an account on our
user-editable Wiki:
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&type=signup

then add your requests at an appropriate section of our Feature Requests
page:
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Feature_Requests

(or add your vote for them if they have already been asked for).

By all means discuss them here if you prefer.


Thanks

Gale  


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[Lars Monsees-2]

Hi Gale,

> Thanks for joining this list. The -help list is out of use now, though
> the archive is and will remain accessible. People who want personal
> support should use our Forum, or join this list.

could you please replace the appropriate link to the old list and replace it
with the new one on http://audacity.sourceforge.net/contact/lists (if the new
one is to be made public)? I guess this confuses other users and most of all
important feedback could get lost. Or is anyone still receiving those mails?

About the archive: I am logged into sf.net but only get a permission denied,
when I click on the link to the archive on
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/contact/
Something seems to be wrong there =)


Just curious: Why don´t you use the tracker at sf.net for bugs and RFEs?


Lars


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[Lars Monsees-2]

> Just curious: Why don´t you use the tracker at sf.net for bugs and
> RFEs?

I just found the audacity bugzilla. This is not really documented (or that part
is well hidden) - is this an more or less internal system or am I allowed to use
it to post bugs and RFEs? I don´t think a wiki is useful for tracking bugs.


Lars


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[Gale Andrews]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:02:04 +0100
"Lars Monsees" <mailings@...> wrote:
> Hi Gale,
> > Thanks for joining this list. The -help list is out of use now, though
> > the archive is and will remain accessible. People who want personal
> > support should use our Forum, or join this list.
>
> could you please replace the appropriate link to the old list and replace it
> with the new one on http://audacity.sourceforge.net/contact/lists (if the new
> one is to be made public)? I guess this confuses other users and most of all
> important feedback could get lost. Or is anyone still receiving those mails?

No one is receiving mails from -help list, it's dead. Indeed I will change
that web page when I can - there are a lot of changes to make on various
pages which I have only just started on.  

> About the archive: I am logged into sf.net but only get a permission denied,
> when I click on the link to the archive on
> http://audacity.sourceforge.net/contact/
> Something seems to be wrong there =)

As I said I can't replicate the problem - I can go to the SF archive
of -help list from:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-help

and get logged into SF when I do so. Please raise your issue with
SF.  

In any case the search of the mailing list archives on SF is not very
good. As described at:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/contact/

we recommend the archive at Nabble instead:
http://www.nabble.com/audacity-help-f4506.html


> I just found the audacity bugzilla. This is not really documented (or
> that part is well hidden) - is this an more or less internal system or am
> I allowed to use it to post bugs and RFEs?

Bugzilla is only mentioned on developers' pages because it is primarily
internal, and not suitable for general users (because they would load it
with support requests for example when they press Record and get "error
opening sound device"...), and would load bugs which are just user error
or fixed two years ago.  
 
Bugzilla is categorically for bugs, not for Feature Requests.  

Please use the Wiki Feature Requests page for your RFEs, or post both those
and "bugs" to:
audacity-feedback@...
 
> I don´t think a wiki is useful for tracking bugs.

Its arguable, and we are having this argument amongst ourselves at the
moment. We have been using a Wiki page called Release Checklist:
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Checklist

to assess and monitor bugs as we work towards a 1.4.0 stable release.
Sure that page looks a mess compared to Bugzilla, but it could be
improved with work and does things that Bugzilla can't easily do.
Audacity Team have been using this rather than Bugzilla of late, so
we have to decide if we drop Bugzilla altogether or possibly update to
the latest version, move it on to audacityteam.org and keep it as another
parallel reporting system (still only for developer use).  
   

Gale


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[Lars Monsees-2]

> No one is receiving mails from -help list, it's dead. Indeed I will
> change that web page when I can - there are a lot of changes to make
> on various pages which I have only just started on.

thx

>> About the archive: I am logged into sf.net but only get a permission
>> denied, when I click on the link to the archive on
>> http://audacity.sourceforge.net/contact/
>> Something seems to be wrong there =)
>
> As I said I can't replicate the problem - I can go to the SF archive
> of -help list from:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-help
>
> and get logged into SF when I do so. Please raise your issue with
> SF.

Is it possible that you are allowed to do so because you are a project member?
Could anyone else try this with their account?
After that, I will inform SF.

>> I just found the audacity bugzilla. This is not really documented (or
>> that part is well hidden) - is this an more or less internal system
>> or am
>> I allowed to use it to post bugs and RFEs?
>
> Bugzilla is only mentioned on developers' pages because it is
> primarily internal, and not suitable for general users (because they
> would load it with support requests for example when they press
> Record and get "error opening sound device"...), and would load bugs
> which are just user error or fixed two years ago.

ok


>
> Bugzilla is categorically for bugs, not for Feature Requests.

not quite right as bugzilla has a severity "enhancement" but I don´t want to
argue ;-)



> Please use the Wiki Feature Requests page for your RFEs, or post both
> those and "bugs" to:
> audacity-feedback@...

I already posted them in the wiki.


>
>> I don´t think a wiki is useful for tracking bugs.
>
> Its arguable, and we are having this argument amongst ourselves at the
> moment. We have been using a Wiki page called Release Checklist:
> http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Checklist
>

Perhaps you should have a look at these:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/

They have adapted their bugzilla installation to their needs. I guess there are
things that you could also find useful.
I have installed a bugzilla for my company, too, and I like it to have ACLs,
email notification, categories, severity levels, a detailed search, and so on.
Personally, I couldn´t think of any advantage of a wiki (that I also installed,
but we use it for documentation and stuff like that) when it comes to bug
processing.

just my 2 cents =)


Lars


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[Gale Andrews]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:53:35 +0100
"Lars Monsees" <mailings@...> wrote:

> >> About the archive: I am logged into sf.net but only get a permission
> >> denied, when I click on the link to the archive on
> >> http://audacity.sourceforge.net/contact/
> >> Something seems to be wrong there =)
> >
> > As I said I can't replicate the problem - I can go to the SF archive
> > of -help list from:
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-help
> >
> > and get logged into SF when I do so. Please raise your issue with
> > SF.
>
> Is it possible that you are allowed to do so because you are a project member?

Well I don't "think" so. I have not actually been a Project member for
all that long and prior to that I could access the -help list archive
although the list itself was already out of use. Do you have the same
problem if you access the archive of this list?


> > Bugzilla is categorically for bugs, not for Feature Requests.
>
> not quite right as bugzilla has a severity "enhancement" but I don´t want to
> argue ;-)

I know, but what I meant was that we don't use it in that way to track
enhancements.  

> >> I don´t think a wiki is useful for tracking bugs.
> >
> > Its arguable, and we are having this argument amongst ourselves at the
> > moment. We have been using a Wiki page called Release Checklist:
> > http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Checklist
> >
>
> Perhaps you should have a look at these:
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/
>
> They have adapted their bugzilla installation to their needs. I guess there are
> things that you could also find useful.
> I have installed a bugzilla for my company, too, and I like it to have ACLs,
> email notification, categories, severity levels, a detailed search, and so on.
> Personally, I couldn´t think of any advantage of a wiki (that I also installed,
> but we use it for documentation and stuff like that) when it comes to bug
> processing.

Thanks for the links. We'll see. Feature Requests I think are a
non-starter on Bugzilla as at least a fair number of users will manage
to make a reasonable job adding them on the Wiki but would probably
make a mess on Bugzilla (as well as being intimidated by the complexity).
So to that extent we don't have to spend volunteer time adding those
requests at least to some other way of tracking them.

At first the Release Checklist worked well as it was not too long yet
still had all the detail of the bugs and comments on the one page
rather than on a load of separate pages, and we tended to desert
Bugzilla and use the Wiki instead. Obviously that type of structure
will tend to collapse under the number of bugs in an organisation like
Mozilla.


Thanks

Gale
 


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[Lars Monsees-2]

> Well I don't "think" so. I have not actually been a Project member for
> all that long and prior to that I could access the -help list archive
> although the list itself was already out of use. Do you have the same
> problem if you access the archive of this list?

No, the archive for this list works fine. I have informed sf.net:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1898504&group_id=1&atid
=200001



> Thanks for the links. We'll see. Feature Requests I think are a
> non-starter on Bugzilla as at least a fair number of users will manage
> to make a reasonable job adding them on the Wiki but would probably
> make a mess on Bugzilla (as well as being intimidated by the
> complexity). So to that extent we don't have to spend volunteer time
> adding those requests at least to some other way of tracking them.

Yes, that´s a point. Bugzilla really is a little bit complex for beginners.


Lars


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[Lars Monsees-2]

>> Well I don't "think" so. I have not actually been a Project member
>> for all that long and prior to that I could access the -help list
>> archive although the list itself was already out of use. Do you have
>> the same problem if you access the archive of this list?
>
> No, the archive for this list works fine. I have informed sf.net:
>
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1898504&group_id=1&atid
> =200001


here is the answer from sf:

"The project admins for this project have set this to allow only members of
the project or specific subscribers to access this data. You will need to
request that they add you to the project or subscription so that you can
view this data."

Perhaps the list should be opened for public access and set to read-only if
that´s possible. Or just remove the link and leave only the other one to nabble.


Lars


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[Gale Andrews]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:57:02 +0100
"Lars Monsees" <mailings@...> wrote:

> >> Well I don't "think" so. I have not actually been a Project member
> >> for all that long and prior to that I could access the -help list
> >> archive although the list itself was already out of use. Do you have
> >> the same problem if you access the archive of this list?
> >
> > No, the archive for this list works fine. I have informed sf.net:
> >
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1898504&group_id=1&atid
> > =200001
> here is the answer from sf:
>
> "The project admins for this project have set this to allow only members of
> the project or specific subscribers to access this data. You will need to
> request that they add you to the project or subscription so that you can
> view this data."
>
> Perhaps the list should be opened for public access and set to read-only if
> that´s possible. Or just remove the link and leave only the other one to nabble.

Well, one of the project admins must recently have taken it on
themselves to restrict access (though searching the archive always has
been read-only). I agree users should not click on the link we have
to our old -help list archive on http://audacity.sourceforge.net/contact/
and get "permission denied". I'll sort something out.

Thanks

Gale  


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